We Lived With Floods Before; Why Can't We Do So Again?

[webfact]

We lived with floods before; why can't we do so again?

The Nation recently talked to Sumet Jumsai, architect, planner and author of the book Naga, which deals with water-based culture.

Q: Are there solutions to the flood problems?

A: There are basically two solutions to living with annual floods in the central plain: one is to control water with dikes, and the other is to live with the water element. Controlling water involves hydraulic engineering, which involves huge investments. But it goes well beyond engineering. It has to go hand in hand with the tradition of water management and legislation, which in the Dutch case goes back several centuries. The same applies to the master plan or a major hydraulic enterprise which, once decided upon, must be adhered to whatever the time span - the Ijsselmere closing dike, for example, took 200 years to complete from the drawing board in the seventeenth century. Very important too are national traits, single mindedness to defend hydraulic integrity, and self sacrifice.

I doubt whether Thais can accept an integrated hydraulic system and management. Former Bank of Thailand Governor Dr Puay Ungphakorn hired a Dutch firm to formulate a comprehensive polder mosaic plan for Bangkok in 1970s, and it fell on deaf ears. The solution has to consist of both the hydraulic and amphibious components. In our case, diked areas should be confined to the minimum. In any case, such areas should be limited because taking up space in "monkey's cheeks" or water retention areas will cause ever-higher flood levels. Specifically, town and country planning by-laws must from now on clearly define flood protected areas and flood zones, and building regulations must enforce appropriate building design. All buildings must have an upper storey that can be evacuated. Power outlets on this level must be above the water line. If there is a basement, it must have a barrier at the entrance.

Q: You talk about the Dutch trait. What is the Thai trait, and what good will it do ?

A: Our built environment evolved with nature, not against it. Our national trait is marked by resilience, inventiveness, flexibility and ad hoc programmes to problem-solving. In the central plain, it meant living in amphibious homes or houses on stilts. This is a cultural heritage that has been ignored at a cost. Inventiveness is shown this year by someone who invented a car wrap from under the wheels to prevent water getting into cars. I will not be surprised if these wraps will be on sale in supermarkets before the next flood season.

Q: You mentioned amphibious homes.

A: There are some vivid examples. Tha Khanon, a village in Surat Thani province, is one. Every year it is flooded up to ten metres or more. The houses sit on bamboo rafts and the whole community floats up with the deluge. They then descend to their respective plots with the aid of wooden poles, to which each home is latched. That was what I saw forty years ago. I went back recently and saw only three raft houses left, the others having been "modernised" to become buildings on the ground. However, the severe flood this year destroyed the whole village except for the three floating houses. I have previously tried to get the Tourism Authority to preserve the community and promote it as a destination, but to no avail.

Another example is Song Phi Nong or Bang-li in Suphanburi province. In the dry season the town was like any other, with car traffic. In the monsoon, streets became submerged and all commercial activities moved to the upper level. Balconies serving as walkways connected the whole town. Cars gave way to longtailed boats, which then queued up at the petrol station, which had moved upstairs along with the market, shops, clinics etc. Song Phi Nong then became a tourist destination. However, about thirty years ago, the local authority earth-filled the entire town in a modernisation programme.

Nineteenth-century Bangkok used to consist of both aquatic and amphibious communities. The amphibious part comprised houses on stilts, and the aquatic the innumerable raft houses on the river and klongs which made Bangkok the only known floating city in the world. Interspersed were masonry structures on the ground - the temples and other ceremonial buildings. But even so, they were often built on boat-shaped podiums to infer flotation.

Q: Can the examples cited lead to real projects?

A: As a practitioner and not an academic, I would like to give you real examples. I am currently involved in the design of a geriatric hospital for the BMA in the middle of a Monkey Cheek in Bang Khun Thien. The conventional solution would have been to landfill the area straightaway. However, our design respects the flood zone and the new hospital buildings will not disturb it in any way.

I am also involved in the team working on the new Thai Chamber of Commerce University Campus north of Bangkok. Planning began this year in the dry season. But already we were thinking in terms of water and how to avoid going against nature. Besides the polder and canal plan, we also designed the buildings to be amphibious in that they are built on stilt columns with a multi-purpose ground floor which can be evacuated if inundated. If floods are severe, water would not be opposed, so the campus would not be different from the surrounding area. In such an event, the buildings would not suffer undue inconvenience or damage because of the amphibious provisions in the design. This design principle should serve as a model for buildings in the central plain, including residential, academic or industrial.

It is interesting to note that in the Netherlands a group of young architects have recently breached a bund to let water into the polder in order to build a floating housing estate. The buildings, floating blocks of three-storey flats, were quickly sold. They now plan a whole new town, all afloat, with raft gardens and greenhouses. The underlying philosophy is the return to living with nature, like in Bangkok of yester-year.

-- The Nation 2011-10-27

[bkkjames]

No purpose in posting this article, serves no practical purpose at this time. We need facts..not editorial opinions on what to do in 1 years time or longer.

[Boater]

No purpose in posting this article, serves no practical purpose at this time. We need facts..not editorial opinions on what to do in 1 years time or longer.

agree 101%, didnt even read past the first line in case in was political bulllshit ..... , so read your post and just knew you read it ! , so i read 1 line and will agree with you

[bkkjames]

I didn't read the entire thing, got turned off about the point it said some interview with some expert...

If nothing else it should keep the 'tv flood experts' busy for 30 pages or so.

[STEELINOX]

This is the hope for the future of Thailand but alas it too will fall upon deft ears to reverb away like the ripples of water now passing beyond levies and dykes that will soon fail; its an interesting read though...

[MaxYakov]

The underlying philosophy is the return to living with nature, like in Bangkok of yester-year.

And Bangkok of this year.

[londonthai]

a flood related article, many would be interested to know, how it use to be in the past and what might be future architectural designs.

the guy knows what he is proposing

[Jaivin2011]

Why is this article here? Why is nation covering this guy. An Ex-democrat MP,an ex-firm devotee of the cult of Sai Baba, a person who messed up and made losses for the Phayathai Hospital Grp, a sister who thinks that she is an almighty HIso with lots of connections and is ever so corrupted not mentioning their whole family degree of corruption, its a disgrace that opinions of such trash are allowed.

[bkkjames]

@jaivan: cause he is an 'expert' and we are running low on these apparently.

[onionluke]

" am gonna grow fins and go back in the water again "

Captain Beefheart .

[MaxYakov]

No purpose in posting this article, serves no practical purpose at this time. We need facts..not editorial opinions on what to do in 1 years time or longer.

agree 101%, didnt even read past the first line in case in was political bulllshit ..... , so read your post and just knew you read it ! , so i read 1 line and will agree with you

Good one!

So ... can we assume these won't be on bkkjames' reading list?:

Naga: Cultural Origins in Siam and the West Pacific by Sumet Jumsai and the late R. Buckminster Fuller (1988)

Seen Architectural Forms of Northern Siam by Sumet Jumsai (1970)

Sumet Jumsai (Design Excellence) by Brian Brace Gaylor (1996)

Architecture and Urbanism by Richard Meier, Timo Pentilla and Sumet Jumsai (1988)

Edited October 27, 2011 by MaxYakov

[zakk9]

No purpose in posting this article, serves no practical purpose at this time. We need facts..not editorial opinions on what to do in 1 years time or longer.

And who are "we"? This man proposes things that have been proven to work, and if "we" don't plan for next year and the following years starting now, there's an obvious chance that this year's disaster will be repeated sooner rather than later. Those living in Thailand have to learn to live with the floods, like people here did in the past, not trying to pretend they don't exist or won't return, because they will.

[bkkjames]

My point is whenever there is a problem, experts appear to say "if we did this or that, the problem would not have happened."

Save the preaching about how to fix the long term issues for another time, the authors views and the nation/tv publishing it are of no use at this moment. Nice reading for those who are not flooded out I suppose.

[needforspeed]

My point is whenever there is a problem, experts appear to say "if we did this or that, the problem would not have happened."

Save the preaching about how to fix the long term issues for another time, the authors views and the nation/tv publishing it are of no use at this moment. Nice reading for those who are not flooded out I suppose.

The not just appear the moment disaster strikes, budget and advice from foreign Experts was there for a long time but not been used by the local authorities. And yes better focus to help the people at the moment. Sad enough I lost hope as people selling sand bags for 70 B and water for 50 B 1.5 ltr to the people in need.

[Thaddeus]

@jaivan: cause he is an 'expert' and we are running low on these apparently.

How many did we have to begin with?

I read the entire article btw and all I can say is *sigh*

[zakk9]

My point is whenever there is a problem, experts appear to say "if we did this or that, the problem would not have happened."

Save the preaching about how to fix the long term issues for another time, the authors views and the nation/tv publishing it are of no use at this moment. Nice reading for those who are not flooded out I suppose.

Problem is, there's already too little time to the next monsoon season. Although there's a major disaster going on right now, planning for the next one can't really start early enough. Since the flooding will come, no matter what (unless somebody dig some really huge canals starting around Nakhon Sawan and ending at the bay, but I can't really see that happening within a year), innovative solutions is the way to go.

Khun Sumet is an innovative architect, and the projects he's currently working on really seem to be rather flood safe, unlike most new buildings in Thailand. The industrial estates will have to be rebuilt right away (if the investors haven't moved to other locations meanwhile), and building them at ground level again is like saying "Yes please, hit me again!".

So while some are fighting the water right now, others have to figure out how to construct buildings that are sustainable in a flooded environment, and those plans have to be available as soon as the water is down to a manageable level. The alternative is to tell Nikon, Western Digital, Sony and the others that "thank you for trying Thailand and good luck in Malaysia, Vietnam or wherever...". We are talking hundreds of thousands of workers and hundreds of billions of Baht. Losing all that may start a crisis for Thailand that will make the flooding itself seem like a drop in the ocean.

[bkkjames]

I am not debating the guys qualifications-you experts can decide that , I just feel the nation could spend more time trying to cover 'live" events that have an immediate effect on 15 million++ people upcountry and in bkk and less time interviewing phd's etc on the art of preventing the next 50 year accidental dam closure.

[webfact]

if some members have issues with topics we post for discussion, you are kindly advised to use the REPORT FUNCTION

/Admin

[swillowbee]

... sure ... great ... we can live in a water world ... again.

... cholera ... malaria ... typhoid fever ... again!

... this is a Petri dish for incubating and spreading disease ... unlike northern Europe.

... the solution is not to deal with the symptoms of the problem! (floating houses!) ... fix the freaking problem! ... pay foreigners to design, build and operate a competent flood control system for Thais! ... (yeah, yeah ... like that is going to happen!)

... sad place.

Edited October 27, 2011 by swillowbee

[zakk9]

... sure ... great ... we can live in a water world ... again.

... cholera ... malaria ... typhoid fever ... again!

... this is a Petri dish for incubating and spreading disease ... unlike northern Europe.

... the solution is not to deal with the symptoms of the problem! (floating houses!) ... fix the freaking problem! ... pay foreigners to design, build and operate a competent flood control system for Thais! ... (yeah, yeah ... like that is going to happen!)

... sad place.

Oh, but you are free to leave any time you want you know.

It might be wise to remember that Thailand to a certain degree is based on the annual flooding. There's a reason why this country is the world's biggest rice exporter. Obviously, the water has to be managed, and hopefully in a better way than what is currently the case. Still, there will never be ways to completely prevent unexpected flooding. The climate is changing, long or short term, and how much rain will fall next year is anybody's guess.

Foreign expertise can be good, but more important is that the Thai people learn to handle the situation themselves. They did in the past, and it would be possible again. The obstruction is not the water, the obstructions are corruption, cronyism and incompetence.

Edited October 27, 2011 by zakk9

[DocN]

We used to livce with burning witches and with raging plagues...why can't we do that again?

Next!

[zakk9]

I'm out of here. I've had more intelligent conversations with drunk farmers in Korat than with some members of this forum.

[Payboy]

Sumet Jumsai

Nice piece on him at NTN here

[stuartd1]

Sumet Jumsai

Nice piece on him at NTN here

+1

[Guest]

I am not debating the guys qualifications-you experts can decide that , I just feel the nation could spend more time trying to cover 'live" events that have an immediate effect on 15 million++ people upcountry and in bkk and less time interviewing phd's etc on the art of preventing the next 50 year accidental dam closure.

It's true that most of the efforts should be put to fix this moment. But then again, there has to be future plans where to go. This is important during the crisis like this. To let people to believe that there will be solutions and this kind of flooding would not happen often, even if the climate would be changing.

Times of the crisis are very effective times for new innovations. Now it's time to observe and play with the ideas, even seemingly silly ones, which could provide solutions for the future. The information which needs to be processed is out there on the streets right now.

[MaxYakov]

Sumet Jumsai

Nice piece on him at NTN here

And from 'THE WEBSITE YOU CAN TRUST", no less. A shame Zakk9 missed out on it.

Edited October 27, 2011 by MaxYakov

[DocN]

... sure ... great ... we can live in a water world ... again.

... cholera ... malaria ... typhoid fever ... again!

... this is a Petri dish for incubating and spreading disease ... unlike northern Europe.

... the solution is not to deal with the symptoms of the problem! (floating houses!) ... fix the freaking problem! ... pay foreigners to design, build and operate a competent flood control system for Thais! ... (yeah, yeah ... like that is going to happen!)

... sad place.

Oh, but you are free to leave any time you want you know.

It might be wise to remember that Thailand to a certain degree is based on the annual flooding. There's a reason why this country is the world's biggest rice exporter. Obviously, the water has to be managed, and hopefully in a better way than what is currently the case. Still, there will never be ways to completely prevent unexpected flooding. The climate is changing, long or short term, and how much rain will fall next year is anybody's guess.

Foreign expertise can be good, but more important is that the Thai people learn to handle the situation themselves. They did in the past, and it would be possible again. The obstruction is not the water, the obstructions are corruption, cronyism and incompetence.

...but you agree, that a sensible water- management, a sensible opening and closing, filling and releasing reservoirs, would be a step in the right direction...i.e. making life better for everyone!?

[OZEMADE]

The Topic states:- We Lived With Floods Before; Why Can't We Do So Again?

The vast majority of Thai's today have not lived with a flood this size at all. I think it was some 50 years ago that anything this big hit Thailand and the capitol Bangkok was no way as big as it is now and had no where near the population it has today, let alone all the other cities and villages that have been wiped out and more heartbreak to come. You only have to look at the stress on the peoples faces, the heartbreak and the tears, that includes the Politicians who have also broken down due to the drama of it all.

Edited October 27, 2011 by OZEMADE

[DocN]

The Topic states:- We Lived With Floods Before; Why Can't We Do So Again?

The vast majority of Thai's today have not lived with a flood this size at all. I think it was some 50 years ago that anything this big hit Thailand and the capitol Bangkok was no way as big as it is now and had no where near the population it has today, let alone all the other cities and villages that have been wiped out and more heartbreak to come. You only have to look at the stress on the peoples faces, the heartbreak and the tears, that includes the Politicians who have also broken down due to the drama of it all.

+1

[julemanden]

... sure ... great ... we can live in a water world ... again.

... cholera ... malaria ... typhoid fever ... again!

... this is a Petri dish for incubating and spreading disease ... unlike northern Europe.

... the solution is not to deal with the symptoms of the problem! (floating houses!) ... fix the freaking problem! ... pay foreigners to design, build and operate a competent flood control system for Thais! ... (yeah, yeah ... like that is going to happen!)

... sad place.

Oh, but you are free to leave any time you want you know.

It might be wise to remember that Thailand to a certain degree is based on the annual flooding. There's a reason why this country is the world's biggest rice exporter. Obviously, the water has to be managed, and hopefully in a better way than what is currently the case. Still, there will never be ways to completely prevent unexpected flooding. The climate is changing, long or short term, and how much rain will fall next year is anybody's guess.

Foreign expertise can be good, but more important is that the Thai people learn to handle the situation themselves. They did in the past, and it would be possible again. The obstruction is not the water, the obstructions are corruption, cronyism and incompetence.