The End Of A Fairytale: Thai Opinion

[ParadiseLost]

In the grand scheme of things, this disaster has ultimately hurt brother-dear more than Y herself.

We have heard not a thing from the illustrious fugitive, no generous donations, no magical advice - nothing.

This is in stark contrast to how it all began; satellite link ups to parliament one fine example...

Whether she survives or not, the biggest change here is that the entire country sees she was abandoned by her self-serving brother, who was most likely behind all the incompetent MP appointments in the first place.

Edited November 9, 2011 by ParadiseLost

[Skywalker69]

In the grand scheme of things, this disaster has ultimately hurt brother-dear more than Y herself.

We have heard not a thing from the illustrious fugitive, no generous donations, no magical advice - nothing.

This is in stark contrast to how it all began; satellite link ups to parliament one fine example...

Whether she survives or not, the biggest change here is that the entire country sees she was abandoned by her self-serving brother, who was most likely behind all the incompetent MP appointments in the first place.

Last time I heard from the Big Boss in Sandland he have orderd some water pumps the the would donate to the LOS.

Were are they? Was the price to high?

[nong38]

She has been badly advised by people she installed and believed that they could do the job. Soon she will need to root out these incompetent people who brought so much distress to the the Thai people. The honeymoon is over!

Remember that the elected ministers have been encouraged to vacate their seats to maintain the majority. If they are sacked as a minister, unlikely they could regain their party list seat, so pressure will be applied to keep them or find another position for their useless Rses.

Of course, nothing here is what it seems!

[whybother]

In the grand scheme of things, this disaster has ultimately hurt brother-dear more than Y herself.

We have heard not a thing from the illustrious fugitive, no generous donations, no magical advice - nothing.

This is in stark contrast to how it all began; satellite link ups to parliament one fine example...

Whether she survives or not, the biggest change here is that the entire country sees she was abandoned by her self-serving brother, who was most likely behind all the incompetent MP appointments in the first place.

Last time I heard from the Big Boss in Sandland he have orderd some water pumps the the would donate to the LOS.

Were are they? Was the price to high?

There was nothing said about him donating them, just ordering them. The government are also spending 80bn baht on cleaning the industrial estates, including pumps to get rid of the water.

Nice little earner, that.

[scotto]

I feel sorry for yingluck a bit imagine if you were just voted into power and you inherited this mess?

You cannot blame her for not opening the flood gates at the dams up north when she was not in power to make that decision,

that would of been made previously to her coming to power so if anyone is to blame it would be who was in power

of the water board i would say.

Maybe she made the problem worse trying to stop the water coming to bangkok however what would you expext from a novice

i try and look at both sides of the coin at least sometimes.

[Ricardo]

In the grand scheme of things, this disaster has ultimately hurt brother-dear more than Y herself.

We have heard not a thing from the illustrious fugitive, no generous donations, no magical advice - nothing.

This is in stark contrast to how it all began; satellite link ups to parliament one fine example...

Whether she survives or not, the biggest change here is that the entire country sees she was abandoned by her self-serving brother, who was most likely behind all the incompetent MP appointments in the first place.

"no generous donations"

Wasn't he reported a few weeks ago, as having given a hundred thousand Baht, out of his Billions of US$ ? Overwhelming generosity from the Peoples' Friend & Champion.

[Skywalker69]

I feel sorry for yingluck a bit imagine if you were just voted into power and you inherited this mess?

You cannot blame her for not opening the flood gates at the dams up north when she was not in power to make that decision,

that would of been made previously to her coming to power so if anyone is to blame it would be who was in power

of the water board i would say.

Maybe she made the problem worse trying to stop the water coming to bangkok however what would you expext from a novice

i try and look at both sides of the coin at least sometimes.

She should never taken the job. She was(is) not qualified.

She tought it will be a walk in the park until Big Brother comes

back for the takeover.

Big misstake.

[ajarnyai]

The " fairy tale " is about the government actually caring about it's people. It's obvious that Yingluck doesn't have the balls to do what is right for the citizens. The overall government culture seems to say "do what is best for us and everything else will fall into place afterwards". her "indecisiveness" or "lack of leadership" is just one manifestation of people who don't take their job seriously.

If you make decisions with the people in mind, you can always err on the side of safety. No one can really blame a leader for doing so. People have seen what this government is all about in recent weeks. I think if they really cared about the people a few simple, but effective moves could have been made.

Mobilize the military. I don't know whether you need a State of Emergency to do so, but why is it even a question. Who else in Thailand is better qualified to help? Put them in charge of FROC, and have everyone follow them. I doubt there would be all this bickering between the politicians. The military has a clear chain of command.

and

Take help when it's offered. I don't care about her loosing "face". I don't want to see her " face" at a time like this. I want to see balls!!! That US carrier group was an invaluable resource. The naval engineers alone could have helped build quality barriers, and help keep all these failing pumps working. Whatever the political cost or even the monetary cost, you can't allow the capital to fall. How does someone with a conscience choose their image over all these suffering people?

The biggest problem is that not only does the government not care, but nor do Thai citizens. Thailand doesn't hold their government accountable. They don't seem to see the government as agents that work on their behave. It might be due to the history of one person being in control and you just can't fight against it if you wanted to or maybe these governments might appear as emissaries from on high. I don't know.

People here will follow the government into the depths of the flood until they start to drown. Even after most governments have proven themselves to be self-serving and corrupt.

Does the Thai media criticize the government? Do they use words like incompetent, ridiculous, unqualified, selfish?

I think most people in this country just don't have the time or desire to worry about who leads them. If I was still in my home country, I would be much like them. I only care because I'm new here and this is all very interesting to me.

Would you take a child to a gourmet restaurant for their birthday? Maybe, but if they'll be happy with McDonalds, why bother?<br style="mso-special-character: line-break"> <br style="mso-special-character:line-break">

[BigJohnnyBKK]

The biggest problem is that not only does the government not care, but nor do Thai citizens. Thailand doesn't hold their government accountable. They don't seem to see the government as agents that work on their behave. It might be due to the history of one person being in control and you just can't fight against it if you wanted to or maybe these governments might appear as emissaries from on high. I don't know.

People here will follow the government into the depths of the flood until they start to drown. Even after most governments have proven themselves to be self-serving and corrupt.

Rather than specifically talking about Thai's view of their "government" (as if that were one coordinated organization), it is helpful to see it as their view of their superiors. The whole society is based on an infinitely complex hierarchy, and everyone knows their place and 99.9% fit in as they are supposed to.

Those at the bottom (80+% of the population) don't see themselves as having any rights at all other than catching the scraps that fall of the table of their betters.

Everyone knows that their leaders are inherently selfish, those above me will look after themselves first and take the biggest share, but if I am a loyal follower I will get at least some of the spoils. Of course the idea that the government is there to look after the nation as a whole is just a pie-in-the-sky ideal only worthy of lip service, only the ONE at the very top is actually credited with such saintliness by most.

Those with a little bit of power (say 15%) feel as long as my part of the hierarchy/network is getting a reasonable share, I'm happy to go along and hang the rest.

Any actual visible conflicts over power are between those at the very top fighting for the key leverage points over an inherently corrupt political/economic system. Having a corruption-free society based on fairness and the rule of law is impossible anyway, you're just beating your head against a wall trying to imagine such a thing.

The idea of government (or any other power base) existing for the benefit of the common people is completely foreign to this part of the world, so just take it out of your thinking when trying to understand what's going on here.

And BTW I would argue it's only slightly more of a reality in the West, it's just that the illusion is so strongly brainwashed into us that the system's inherent unfairness is less visible. Although perhaps "occupy" is an indicator of rising awareness.

Not that I have any ideas of a better arrangement, it might suck but it's the best human history has come up with so far. I tend to think the Scandinavian countries have come up with a comprise that seems to work reasonably well, at least for their circumstances, but that wouldn't be practical in poorer countries like Thailand or the US.

[hammered]

Yingluck and PTPs support hasnt dipped at all where it matters and comments like this only harden the support in those places. This is written for a certain audience that reads that newspaper and wants to hear things like this

Both The Daily News and the Thai Rath have published columns criticizing her lack of leadership skills. A glaring example was the public argument between Chalit of the Irrigation Dept and Sukhumpan. Yingluk was chairing the meeting and just looked embarrassed.

This crisis has cruelly exposed her limitations and whilst the Issan faithful may still remain loyal, the hundreds of thousands laid off by the floods may not feel the same way.

I notice no change at all in political sympathy and I have spoken to flood victims in shelters and a few voters who have lost their houses to meters of water. The one thing that Yingluck enjoys is that everyone you speak to agrees that Bangkok should have opened the water gates very early on. Everyone knows what party controls Bangkok. So for every PTP voter there is a convenient other to blame. Yingluck may lose some votes if she doesnt deliver on the recovery but right now, I dont think so

The other question is if PTP do lose votes where do they go? They sure aint going to Abhisit. Maybe they will just not vote or maybe a new red party to the left will be formed. that however, is only a question that will arise if PTP lose the poors faith. And to be honest Im sure there are those who long before that might ever happen would be far too coup happy and just trigger a massive resurgence in PTP popularity as I cant see the Dems ever opposing a coup and being a viable alternative to any democratically minded people. Sad really.

[hammered]

The biggest problem is that not only does the government not care, but nor do Thai citizens. Thailand doesn't hold their government accountable. They don't seem to see the government as agents that work on their behave. It might be due to the history of one person being in control and you just can't fight against it if you wanted to or maybe these governments might appear as emissaries from on high. I don't know.

People here will follow the government into the depths of the flood until they start to drown. Even after most governments have proven themselves to be self-serving and corrupt.

Rather than specifically talking about Thai's view of their "government" (as if that were one coordinated organization), it is helpful to see it as their view of their superiors. The whole society is based on an infinitely complex hierarchy, and everyone knows their place and 99.9% fit in as they are supposed to.

Those at the bottom (80+% of the population) don't see themselves as having any rights at all other than catching the scraps that fall of the table of their betters.

Everyone knows that their leaders are inherently selfish, those above me will look after themselves first and take the biggest share, but if I am a loyal follower I will get at least some of the spoils. Of course the idea that the government is there to look after the nation as a whole is just a pie-in-the-sky ideal only worthy of lip service, only the ONE at the very top is actually credited with such saintliness by most.

Those with a little bit of power (say 15%) feel as long as my part of the hierarchy/network is getting a reasonable share, I'm happy to go along and hang the rest.

Any actual visible conflicts over power are between those at the very top fighting for the key leverage points over an inherently corrupt political/economic system. Having a corruption-free society based on fairness and the rule of law is impossible anyway, you're just beating your head against a wall trying to imagine such a thing.

The idea of government (or any other power base) existing for the benefit of the common people is completely foreign to this part of the world, so just take it out of your thinking when trying to understand what's going on here.

And BTW I would argue it's only slightly more of a reality in the West, it's just that the illusion is so strongly brainwashed into us that the system's inherent unfairness is less visible. Although perhaps "occupy" is an indicator of rising awareness.

Not that I have any ideas of a better arrangement, it might suck but it's the best human history has come up with so far. I tend to think the Scandinavian countries have come up with a comprise that seems to work reasonably well, at least for their circumstances, but that wouldn't be practical in poorer countries like Thailand or the US.

Thanks. I think there is a lot of truth in what say

[anterian]

One of the easiest exercises in the world is to criticise, particularly if you can indulge in imaginative reporting, a a Nation Newspaper specialty. Naturally in such a situation those people with similar attitudes to the Nation will tend to congregate here, birds of a feather flock together.

Most argue from a political perspective rather than any actual scientific knowledge, just like the politicians they support.

This is a global problem in politics, a person is elected for 4 years at a time, to tackle a problem which may take many parliaments to solve. He cannot make needed but painful decisions or he will not be re-elected, instead he goes for the quick popular fix.

Politics and disasters do not mix, just look at Pakistan. PT and the Democrats should both be working for the good of the nation, not their own personal agendas and the media should see that they do, not further inflame and encourage dissent.

[whybother]

I notice no change at all in political sympathy and I have spoken to flood victims in shelters and a few voters who have lost their houses to meters of water. The one thing that Yingluck enjoys is that everyone you speak to agrees that Bangkok should have opened the water gates very early on. Everyone knows what party controls Bangkok. So for every PTP voter there is a convenient other to blame. Yingluck may lose some votes if she doesnt deliver on the recovery but right now, I dont think so

The other question is if PTP do lose votes where do they go? They sure aint going to Abhisit. Maybe they will just not vote or maybe a new red party to the left will be formed. that however, is only a question that will arise if PTP lose the poors faith. And to be honest Im sure there are those who long before that might ever happen would be far too coup happy and just trigger a massive resurgence in PTP popularity as I cant see the Dems ever opposing a coup and being a viable alternative to any democratically minded people. Sad really.

Do these people also blame Yingluck for doing exactly what Sukhumband was doing - protecting Bangkok?

[asuwin]

what a pity no plans where put forward to ease the flooding, after all the years that Thailand has flooded still no drainage to move the water quicker , you would think will all the floods EVERY year that the government would devise a plan to alleviate the severe flooding, but alas how would the government line their own pockets with handouts from other countries if they didnt have floods, 100 million bath donated 70,000 evacuees and only 3000 bath given to them, how the hell can those people replace lost items with only 3000 bath unless i am very much mistaken where has the balance gone to (in the pockets of the government to replace their cars with new ones or to buy some other luxury that they dont really need). It's time the government was ousted and replaced with a government that really cares about the people and not about lining their own bloody pocket , it has gone on for far to long now.

[peterquixote]

I spend a long time reading the articles in Thaivisa.com to learn more about Thailand.

Thank you contributors.

My girlfriend arrived here, New Zealand on September the 20th, telling me there was nothing to worry about in Bangkok.

She lived on the third floor for god's sake, and the toll highway to the airport is well above ground she explained.

Is there some gene in Thai people do you think?

I would look up at the sky in Bangkok, and after four weeks of living there I could predict, rain to within one hour.

I would give the dear woman her umbrella as we stepped out.

"Why Umbrella" she saying it not raining"

Edited November 10, 2011 by peterquixote

[KOZMO]

The Thai people elected this idiotic bunch, now thet can eat mama noodle soup and hope someone will listen to the Western experts on flood control because what they are doing is just prolonging the in evitable.

[JohnAllan]

Hell. The lack of leadership was always there to be seen, except by the most naive, or the most dyed-in-the-wool Phue Thai voter. Yingluck's amazing political leapfrogging owed everything to perception and nothing to substance. The supreme leader was always going to have the final say, and his Phue Thai and redshirt acolytes have undermined, or worse, ignored, Yingluck.

The one advantage she possesses is having absolutely nothing to lose - but everything to gain - by going for broke. Embrace the military, its manpower and magnificent endeavours; embrace the volunteers; embrace the victims, all of them. When the waters have all but receded, ensure the committees set up to mitigate future flood disasters have all the resources, human and technical, that they need, and the ear of the PM when they report.

Then give the MPs and government ministers a choice: back her to the hilt, no matter what; or she steps down and leaves them to fend for themselves. If they make the right choice, she needs to slash, burn, and take no political prisoners. Dump the likes of Jatuporn from any government position and keep them muzzled. Reshuffle and dump the useless - most of the cabinet - and the immoral - all of the cabinet - and put the right people in the right jobs.

If the MPs and ministers make the other choice . . . it'll be just a matter of time to yet another election.

Edited November 10, 2011 by JohnAllan

[yoshiwara]

One of the easiest exercises in the world is to criticise, particularly if you can indulge in imaginative reporting, a a Nation Newspaper specialty. Naturally in such a situation those people with similar attitudes to the Nation will tend to congregate here, birds of a feather flock together.

Most argue from a political perspective rather than any actual scientific knowledge, just like the politicians they support.

This is a global problem in politics, a person is elected for 4 years at a time, to tackle a problem which may take many parliaments to solve. He cannot make needed but painful decisions or he will not be re-elected, instead he goes for the quick popular fix.

Politics and disasters do not mix, just look at Pakistan. PT and the Democrats should both be working for the good of the nation, not their own personal agendas and the media should see that they do, not further inflame and encourage dissent.

You are so, so right to emphasise actual scientific knowledge. That we realise is the responsibility of the appointed Science Minister. He at least devised the strategy of massing boats synchronised propellers to push back the direction of the flooding waters in Bangkok. Oh yes.

[ResX]

One of the easiest exercises in the world is to criticise, particularly if you can indulge in imaginative reporting, a a Nation Newspaper specialty. Naturally in such a situation those people with similar attitudes to the Nation will tend to congregate here, birds of a feather flock together.

Most argue from a political perspective rather than any actual scientific knowledge, just like the politicians they support.

This is a global problem in politics, a person is elected for 4 years at a time, to tackle a problem which may take many parliaments to solve. He cannot make needed but painful decisions or he will not be re-elected, instead he goes for the quick popular fix.

Politics and disasters do not mix, just look at Pakistan. PT and the Democrats should both be working for the good of the nation, not their own personal agendas and the media should see that they do, not further inflame and encourage dissent.

I was about to write or I have already written the statement of such: "For the nations that politicians dominate the policy matters and decision making, professionals in all sectors have to stand tall to confront them if the stakes are high". I don't mean to be rude but this is for good. The current floods in Thailand, for instance could be smaller by almost 40% if the dams engineers dared to confront those politicians to insist for draw down dams water levels as early as mid July.

It is very true that politicians are mostly short sighted and opportunists. Not to say they are bad but that is how the game is played. It is very rare politicians want to make unpopular decisions but have to be made in the name of long term prosperity of the nation. E.g, integrated water management for Thailand but will bring little political millage since it is very costly and without clear tangible benefit in near future. Therefore there was no taker. And probably there will be no taker too after this as people stop talking about the floods. Hand out cash, TBH 5,000 for flood victims is among the last things to be done for a long term economic and social prosperity. But as you can see it has been implemented (I supposed) even there are still flooding.

Edited November 11, 2011 by ResX