Bangkok Governor Blamed On Flooding Mismanagement

[Moruya]

@moruya that a general election was scheduled is an undeniable fact. That the army stepped in because there wasn't is nonsense, unless of course the army wasn't aware ! The lies from both sides of the devide continue to be entertaining, your lie included.

No lie from me. If you have a finite date in which to organise an election and a minimum time in which to prepare then the time comes when you have failed to plan for it. That is what Thaksin did

.

[Buchholz]

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yubamrung commented that the Interior Ministry can exercise its authority to discharge the Bangkok Governor owing to his inefficiency.

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung talked about rumors about the dismissal of the Bangkok governor, saying that he personally thinks it is unnecessary at this time since it is a very important issue.

[msg362]

Simple problem management in most Western countries:

1. Identify problem
2. Find Fix or workaround for problem
3. Implement fix or workaround
4. Define how to prevent problem happening again

Problem management Asian style:

1. Find someone to blame
2. Hope problem goes away

[whybother]

Not the Democrats boycotted, ALL parties boycotted. There were not only irregularities, there were tons of fraud and still he could not win the election. (the voting booths so that it is possible to check what people vote for, the rubber stamps to make fraud easier, transport by taxis, et cetc) And than count.....April...October, November. Who was than Premier?? I don't know, because in the 1997 constitution the caretaker period is only 3 month. So he could not be premier anymore, or?

The TRT didn't boycott it. But besides that, there were some other small parties didn't boycott it. There probably was tons of fraud, probably about the same that there was in the last few elections. But he won it. But because there were a number of electorates without valid results, parliament couldn't convene, so he couldn't be elected PM and and couldn't form a government.

I didn't know there could only be a caretaker for 3 months. That doesn't make much sense given that there is 6 months to run new elections.

edit: and this is going to be deleted anyway ....

Edited November 9, 2011 by whybother

[msg362]

Furthermore, Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yubamrung commented that the Interior Ministry can exercise its authority to discharge the Bangkok Governor owing to his inefficiency.

I'd like to see them try that.

Yes, me too.

Clean them out.

Clean who out? The FROC Squad?

I am curious. do they wear frocks?

[gl555]

Yes I post here just for you and approval.

I think you overestimate your own importance and intelligence.

By a lot.

Unfortunately I am not really interested in your personal opinion on any government. I'd rather discuss matters with h90, who at least has some valuable points, whereas you are just ranting!

Have a nice day!

[gl555]

I never argued against it. PT is now in power and they can do whatever the hell they want, wrong or right.

And you're right. there never has been a 'clean' government. Perhaps I should have written 'extremely' corrupt instead of just corrupt alone.

Overthrowing a corrupt and incompetent government no matter how many misguided supporters that government has, is still overthrowing a corrupt and incompetent government. It's the right thing to do.

There'd never be a government in Thailand again if the army threw out corrupt governments. Even their own junta government would need to be thrown out.

Anyway, you can't argue for a coup to throw out the PT government and argue against Chalerm sacking the democratically elected Bangkok government.

[whybother]

Chalerm: No sacking of governor

The Nation

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung yesterday denied calling for the sacking of Bangkok Governor Sukhumbhand Paribatra over his mishandling of flood management, saying he was just citing a legal point.

"It's not easy dismissing an elected governor. There will be no dismissal of him. He's working hard and I'm no interior minister capable of doing that," he said.

Chalerm said he was drawing on his experience in drafting the 1985 law establishing the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) when he told the party meeting that the Interior Ministry, which supervises the BMA, could fire a Bangkok governor.

He said only gross misconduct or severe offences could throw a Bangkok governor out of a job, and he was neither in the position nor had the authority to evaluate Sukhumbhand's or any other Bangkok governor's performance.

"Let's now say that let's not dismiss him," he added.

Sukhumbhand said he felt no agony over Chalerm's statement and could only sit back and smile in response.

"I've known him all along. He would have let me know about my dismissal had he wanted to seek it," he said.

He also refused to comment on whether the BMA had been overlooked when a second committee was appointed by the government to oversee flood prevention without any BMA officials or representatives on it. "Everything depends on the prime minister," he added.

-- The Nation 2011-11-10

[Buchholz]

Chalerm said he was drawing on his experience in drafting the 1985 law

Scary to think about Chalerm drafting laws.

.

[whybother]

The new commissioners had already been appointed. Thaksin's problem was that he had gone off into the wilderness with the hump, TRT members were detecting in droves and he didn't know what candidates he could subsequently field.

I read a report that said that the EC had not been appointed at the time of the coup (I can't find the link), and haven't found anything to say that they were appointed.

Not that many members defected: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_general_election,_October_2006#From_Thai_Rak_Thai

[animatic]

Chalerm: No sacking of governor

The Nation

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung yesterday denied calling for the sacking of Bangkok Governor Sukhumbhand Paribatra over his mishandling of flood management, saying he was just citing a legal point.

"It's not easy dismissing an elected governor. There will be no dismissal of him. He's working hard and I'm no interior minister capable of doing that," he said.

Chalerm said he was drawing on his experience in drafting the 1985 law establishing the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) when he told the party meeting that the Interior Ministry, which supervises the BMA, could fire a Bangkok governor.

He said only gross misconduct or severe offences could throw a Bangkok governor out of a job, and he was neither in the position nor had the authority to evaluate Sukhumbhand's or any other Bangkok governor's performance.

"Let's now say that let's not dismiss him," he added.

Sukhumbhand said he felt no agony over Chalerm's statement and could only sit back and smile in response.

"I've known him all along. He would have let me know about my dismissal had he wanted to seek it," he said.

He also refused to comment on whether the BMA had been overlooked when a second committee was appointed by the government to oversee flood prevention without any BMA officials or representatives on it. "Everything depends on the prime minister," he added.

-- The Nation 2011-11-10

Looks like the PTP ran the idea up the flagpole and NO ONE SALUTED.

Back track, hey it was JUST an idea.

Lose another layer of face Mr. Irrigation Dept head.

[soundman]

I have removed a circular argument, please try to remain civil with those of opposing views/opinions.

[Gers1873]

Simple problem management in most Western countries:

1. Identify problem
2. Find Fix or workaround for problem
3. Implement fix or workaround
4. Define how to prevent problem happening again

Problem management Asian style:

1. Find someone to blame
2. Hope problem goes away

I guess I am seeing a lot of posts on this forum from asians...........all apportioning blame, and very little, if any effort, allocated to the four problem management ideals you place in the 'westerners' camp........didn't realise we had so many asian members

You expect solutions on TV forum....... hmmmm. Like the OP i was of course referring to the actions of government officials,

[DocN]

We were talking about legal, as some posters on here treat a coup or even justify it, calling it legal.

Nothing else!

Idi Amin, Hitler...yeah, go ahead!

But just think about it for a second: the case is not so clear, when it comes to Thaksin (f.e.), because obviously not EVERYBODY wanted it. A big part of Thailands population actually was NOT in favor of the Army, no matter how many people in Bangkok were draping flower- garlands around tank- cannons.

And now tell me: where do YOU draw the line?

I can understand your argument Doc

I thought we were talking about a potential coup now ..... not the Thaksin coup

But anyway I think the Thaksin coup was also justified.

Marcos could have said the majority of the people voted for him too. There are also elections in Laos and everyone wins by landslides. They have laws there too. And they throw people in jail who opposed the Govt.

"Checks and Balances" in the political definition .... some way to deal with a Govt gone bad.

In Thailand the military has played that role historically. I agree it would be better to have an independent judiciary and independent legislative branch but in my opinion few countries anywhere have that ... maybe the US included.

I believe that there are situations where a military coup is justified ... whether legal or not. And I'm not saying it's justified in every case.

We can agree to disagree on this and that's cool.

Cool, indeed!

Now we just have to agree on one more point: the Army was NOT doing it to restore "democracy"...and never will!

If we are talking about the Thaksin coup, there were elections afterwards. And if democracy was not restored I suppose we can also say that these last elections that PTP won were not democratic ??? and we don't have democracy now?

Ok, I admit being a bit sarcastic on this one.

I really do not thik, that what we have in Thailand is democracy. This system may have some things about it, that are present in a democracy, but the in total it is a farce.

Votebuying (from all sides), corruption en mass, citizens who think that basically all you have to do in a democracy is "checking a box" every 4 or 5 years, a largely uneducated mass of people -some of them not able to read or write (not their fault, by the way) and a deeply rooted feudal system. On top of that: an Army that all to willingly would step up to defend the "elite" and an elite, who don't give sh@t for the poor.

And the way the Dems got to power last time...well...anybody who will call that "democratic" might check the dictionary again.

[animatic]

I have removed a circular argument, please try to remain civil with those of opposing views/opinions.

So circular it was spinning like a top!

[csolgosz]

Hear hear the farang experts making their opinions known from their distant couches.

Who gives a dam_n about your political opinion at a time like this? One clown even looking forward to the next coup. Like it or not, this government was overwhelmingly elected at the polls by the Thai people so... Get a life. The only reason I even read your rants is in the hope I might read some useful information that will inform me about when I can return to work ... or not.

[webfact]

Sukhumbhand's resignation or sacking not true: Democrats

The Nation

The main opposition party has no plans to force Bangkok Governor MR Sukhumbhand Paribatra to resign in the face of flooding, Democrat MP Rachada Dhnadirek said on Thursday.

"News reports about Sukhumband stepping down are groundless," she said.

Rachada said there was no justification to pin blame the Bangkok inundation on Sukhumbhand.

Sukhumbhand's term would end early next year and this might prompt ill-intentioned people trying to undermine his re-election bid, she added.

She said she had checked with Sukhumbhand and Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung about the alleged move to sack the Bangkok governor.

The two had cordial ties and Chalerm denied he pushed the government to fire Sukhumbhand, she said.

Certain Pheu Thai MPs circulated the idea about sacking, she said.

Another Democrat Boonyord Sukthinthai said no Democrats, particularly those Bangkok MPs, cast doubt on Sukhumbhand's performance on flood control.

Boonyord said he suspected Pheu Thai MPs fabricated the story on Sukhumbhand in order to divert atttention from the government's botched flood control.

-- The Nation 2011-11-10

[gl555]

While we are applaud your naivete about Thai politics, the fact remains no one really cares about the unwashed masses. How many 'overwhelmingly elected governments' have been toppled in a coup here? And in the case of this present government, if it happens, they deserve it!

Oh and this is Thaivisa, are you ignorant or pretending to be ignorant by expecting 'useful information'? People here post opinions, not information.

Hear hear the farang experts making their opinions known from their distant couches.

Who gives a dam_n about your political opinion at a time like this? One clown even looking forward to the next coup. Like it or not, this government was overwhelmingly elected at the polls by the Thai people so... Get a life. The only reason I even read your rants is in the hope I might read some useful information that will inform me about when I can return to work ... or not.

[rubl]

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung yesterday denied calling for the sacking of Bangkok Governor Sukhumbhand Paribatra over his mishandling of flood management, saying he was just citing a legal point.

With nothing else to do to meaningfully spent his time at this moment, Dept. PM Chalerm is refreshing his knowledge of the law, investigating various finer points and details which can get lawyers, judges and other legal entities enthrilled.

For those who still have a wee bit of water flowing through the living room this may sound incredible, but that's probably because their sense of humour has washed away

[siampolee]

[quote

]Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung yesterday denied calling for the sacking of Bangkok Governor Sukhumbhand Paribatra over his mishandling of flood management, saying he was just citing a legal point.

"It's not easy dismissing an elected governor. There will be no dismissal of him. He's working hard and I'm no interior minister capable of doing that," he said .

Not that a Thaksin crony would want to seen as a person pulling of a coup thus disproving the much vaunted democracy claim by P.T.P. and their Red Shirt hordes wpold he.

Chalerm had an extended holiday in Denmark as a result of a government change, wonder if he can recall that little sojourn ?

Edited November 10, 2011 by siampolee

[metisdead]

An off topic insult and baiting session has been removed. Let's stick to the topic.

[sjaak327]

While we are applaud your naivete about Thai politics, the fact remains no one really cares about the unwashed masses. How many 'overwhelmingly elected governments' have been toppled in a coup here? And in the case of this present government, if it happens, they deserve it!

Oh and this is Thaivisa, are you ignorant or pretending to be ignorant by expecting 'useful information'? People here post opinions, not information.

Hear hear the farang experts making their opinions known from their distant couches.

Who gives a dam_n about your political opinion at a time like this? One clown even looking forward to the next coup. Like it or not, this government was overwhelmingly elected at the polls by the Thai people so... Get a life. The only reason I even read your rants is in the hope I might read some useful information that will inform me about when I can return to work ... or not.

Unwashed masses ? Coups are a sure way of making sure the masses don't count. It also seems to be a sure way to undermine democracy and deprive people of their right to exercise their constitutional right to vote. This time around any coup would most certainly not be bloodless.

Of course I prefer democracy above a junta rule. This government should make sure the role of the military in Thai politics are over once and for all, the Military should exist for serving the country and it's people, not ruling it.

[rogerdee123]

Hear hear the farang experts making their opinions known from their distant couches.

Who gives a dam_n about your political opinion at a time like this? One clown even looking forward to the next coup. Like it or not, this government was overwhelmingly elected at the polls by the Thai people so... Get a life. The only reason I even read your rants is in the hope I might read some useful information that will inform me about when I can return to work ... or not.

OK no worries mate ... I give you permission to take the rest of the week off.

[gl555]

While we are applaud your naivete about Thai politics, the fact remains no one really cares about the unwashed masses. How many 'overwhelmingly elected governments' have been toppled in a coup here? And in the case of this present government, if it happens, they deserve it!

Oh and this is Thaivisa, are you ignorant or pretending to be ignorant by expecting 'useful information'? People here post opinions, not information.

Hear hear the farang experts making their opinions known from their distant couches.

Who gives a dam_n about your political opinion at a time like this? One clown even looking forward to the next coup. Like it or not, this government was overwhelmingly elected at the polls by the Thai people so... Get a life. The only reason I even read your rants is in the hope I might read some useful information that will inform me about when I can return to work ... or not.

Unwashed masses ? Coups are a sure way of making sure the masses don't count. It also seems to be a sure way to undermine democracy and deprive people of their right to exercise their constitutional right to vote. This time around any coup would most certainly not be bloodless.

Of course I prefer democracy above a junta rule. This government should make sure the role of the military in Thai politics are over once and for all, the Military should exist for serving the country and it's people, not ruling it.

And shouldn't the government exist also to serve the country and it's people, not ruling it?

Coups are always distasteful but when the ruling government is corrupt and ineffectual and yet still manage to stay in power, then there should always be someone out there to check them,

[sjaak327]

While we are applaud your naivete about Thai politics, the fact remains no one really cares about the unwashed masses. How many 'overwhelmingly elected governments' have been toppled in a coup here? And in the case of this present government, if it happens, they deserve it!

Oh and this is Thaivisa, are you ignorant or pretending to be ignorant by expecting 'useful information'? People here post opinions, not information.

Hear hear the farang experts making their opinions known from their distant couches.

Who gives a dam_n about your political opinion at a time like this? One clown even looking forward to the next coup. Like it or not, this government was overwhelmingly elected at the polls by the Thai people so... Get a life. The only reason I even read your rants is in the hope I might read some useful information that will inform me about when I can return to work ... or not.

Unwashed masses ? Coups are a sure way of making sure the masses don't count. It also seems to be a sure way to undermine democracy and deprive people of their right to exercise their constitutional right to vote. This time around any coup would most certainly not be bloodless.

Of course I prefer democracy above a junta rule. This government should make sure the role of the military in Thai politics are over once and for all, the Military should exist for serving the country and it's people, not ruling it.

And shouldn't the government exist also to serve the country and it's people, not ruling it?

Coups are always distasteful but when the ruling government is corrupt and ineffectual and yet still manage to stay in power, then there should always be someone out there to check them,

There are laws and procedures that control what a government can do, in addition there are elections to determine which parties can form the next government. Works pretty well the world over.

[Buchholz]

The list of "elected" despots the world over is a lengthy one.

.

[gl555]

There are laws and procedures that control what a government can do, in addition there are elections to determine which parties can form the next government. Works pretty well the world over.

They work pretty well everywhere else, just not here. Hence we need the Army and coups.

[sjaak327]

There are laws and procedures that control what a government can do, in addition there are elections to determine which parties can form the next government. Works pretty well the world over.

They work pretty well everywhere else, just not here. Hence we need the Army and coups.

They work equally well in Thailand. That a party that you don't support has won all general elections since 2000 does not mean that those elections don't work

[EvilDrSomkid]

The list of "elected" despots the world over is a lengthy one.

Succinctly put.

+1

[EvilDrSomkid]

I really do not thik, that what we have in Thailand is democracy. This system may have some things about it, that are present in a democracy, but the in total it is a farce.

Votebuying (from all sides), corruption en mass, citizens who think that basically all you have to do in a democracy is "checking a box" every 4 or 5 years, a largely uneducated mass of people -some of them not able to read or write (not their fault, by the way) and a deeply rooted feudal system. On top of that: an Army that all to willingly would step up to defend the "elite" and an elite, who don't give sh@t for the poor.

And the way the Dems got to power last time...well...anybody who will call that "democratic" might check the dictionary again.

And there you have it in a nutshell.

You forgot to mention who controls the Army.

(To the mods, not a jab at the institution falling under TV rule#2.)

When it comes to the Army, they are doing a smashing job under the circumstances. They are out there helping people.

This is super good PR for them. They will not mess this up by staging a coup.

I have said this in several threads lately: Prayuth has publicly stated that there are no generals now stupid enough to stage a coup. For once, I believe what the Army says.

I also believe that Sukhumband is doing the best he can, but he can only do so much.

To be fair, I do not believe the Dems would have done much better in handling this disaster had they still been in power.