Children's Games Continue Despite Emergency: Thai Talk

[webfact]

THAI TALK

Children's games continue despite emergency

Suthichai Yoon

The Nation

The fiery confrontation last Friday between the Bangkok governor and the Irrigation Department chief at the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) perhaps sums up all the reasons why the anti-flood exercise has been a disaster, all the way from the top down, and why we are in the mess we are in today.

During a national crisis, they were arguing heatedly over where a written request for more water pumps had been misplaced - and who was to be blamed for that.

With Premier Yingluck Shinawatra at the head of the conference table, Irrigation Chief Chalit Damrongsak addressed Bangkok Governor MR Sukhumbhand Paribatra, who was sitting across him. He said the governor had one day earlier told the press that the Irrigation Department had not responded positively to the BMA's request for water pumps.

"I have checked and haven't been able to locate the official letter from the BMA to the Irrigation Department. The governor's statement could therefore be damaging to my department," he said, in a matter-of-fact manner.

Governor Sukhumbhand immediately turned stern. He claimed he hadn't said that the Irrigation Department hadn't responded. "I am still waiting, still waiting, though," he repeated.

Premier Yingluck looked puzzled, embarrassed and confused. She said, without addressing anyone in particular, that all parties concerned should work together.

Director of the Flood Relief Operations Centre (FROC), Police General Pracha Promnok, then chimed in to say that his office had not received any official written request from the governor's office either.

The next day, Agriculture Minister Thira Wongsamut was quoted as saying that he had also looked into the matter and discovered that the BMA's letter had in fact been delivered to the Interior Ministry, and not the Irrigation Department (which comes under the jurisdiction of his ministry).

"So, how can the Bangkok governor accuse the Irrigation Department of being uncooperative when he had sent the letter to the wrong place. Besides, even if the letter had got to the right place, we wouldn't have enough water pumps to spare for the BMA anyway. We are also short of pumps," the minister said.

The arguments back and forth between the central government and the Bangkok administration have at best been petty and irrelevant. The scene underscores the deplorable lack of cooperation despite the repeated assurances by both sides that they are "working closely together".

After Friday's incident, Prime Minister Yingluck admitted publicly for the first time: "We do have problems collaborating on technical operations and exchange of data."

The Bangkok governor, in a rare expression of agreement, confirmed: "We don't have problems with long-term planning but we do have problems with short-term implementation."

Conflicts aren't confined to areas of flood-relief activity between the central government and Bangkok administration though. Within FROC, politicians of various shades clash over priorities and areas that should get aid first.

There are also questions about whether Governor Sukhumbhand works in close tandem with his Democrat colleagues or not. He doesn't seem to have worked out a coordination system with his own party leader, Abhisit Vejjajiva, either.

The irony is glaring. The premier has invoked emergency powers under the Public Disaster Act so that she can act decisively - and the first order was to get the governor to open up some sluice gates.

The governor hit back by exercising his rights under the same law to instruct police to man the barrier to prevent residents from tearing it down.

Working at cross purposes seems to be the order of the day. That's why, in the social media, people have been issuing warnings among themselves: "If the PM says it's all safe, start packing. If the governor issues an alert, just flee!"

-- The Nation 2011-11-10

[Buchholz]

Premier Yingluck looked puzzled, embarrassed and confused.

Just an average, typical day, then.

.

[whybother]

The irony is glaring. The premier has invoked emergency powers under the Public Disaster Act so that she can act decisively - and the first order was to get the governor to open up some sluice gates.

The governor hit back by exercising his rights under the same law to instruct police to man the barrier to prevent residents from tearing it down.

Working at cross purposes seems to be the order of the day. That's why, in the social media, people have been issuing warnings among themselves: "If the PM says it's all safe, start packing. If the governor issues an alert, just flee!"

Is that working at cross purposes?

Yingluck said open the gates. He opened them. He also instructed police to make sure that barriers weren't torn down. If the barriers are torn down, there is no control.

[Buchholz]

Besides, even if the letter had got to the right place, we wouldn't have enough water pumps to spare for the BMA anyway. We are also short of pumps," the minister said.

So all this rigamarole over the BMS requesting/not requesting pumps from the FROC/Irrigation Dept/Interior Ministry is all moot in the end.

There's no available pumps to begin with.

.

[poskat]

"The Bangkok governor, in a rare expression of agreement, confirmed: "We don't have problems with long-term planning but we do have problems with short-term implementation."

translation: "we are good at talking, but not good at doing......."

[lannarebirth]

"The Bangkok governor, in a rare expression of agreement, confirmed: "We don't have problems with long-term planning but we do have problems with short-term implementation."

translation: "we are good at talking, but not good at doing......."

You may have the right take on it. I took it to mean "We don't have any trouble splitting up the budget allocations, but when the money is actually needed the coffers are empty".

[inquisitive]

"The Bangkok governor, in a rare expression of agreement, confirmed: "We don't have problems with long-term planning but we do have problems with short-term implementation."

translation: "we are good at talking, but not good at doing......."

Excuse me? What dictionary are you using? "Having problems with" something does not mean "we are not good at" that thing. The problems in this particular case could be the difficulty in holding back ingorant, short sighted crowds being led by government elements in their attempt to go dangerously beyond the law. The Bangkok governor could be great at short-term implementation but admitted he was having problems because ignorant, self-centered people outside of his control were trying to sabotage the plans of the prime minister they themselves elected.

Of course many people choose to mislead others with catchy phrases hoping that others will accept them without ever really considering what they mean or their source. You might be an example of the tactic either as a leader or a dupe. So sad. Just when everyone knows that we all must pull together or the selfish among us will pull the whole country apart.

[poskat]

"The Bangkok governor, in a rare expression of agreement, confirmed: "We don't have problems with long-term planning but we do have problems with short-term implementation."

translation: "we are good at talking, but not good at doing......."

Excuse me? What dictionary are you using? "Having problems with" something does not mean "we are not good at" that thing. The problems in this particular case could be the difficulty in holding back ingorant, short sighted crowds being led by government elements in their attempt to go dangerously beyond the law. The Bangkok governor could be great at short-term implementation but admitted he was having problems because ignorant, self-centered people outside of his control were trying to sabotage the plans of the prime minister they themselves elected.

Of course many people choose to mislead others with catchy phrases hoping that others will accept them without ever really considering what they mean or their source. You might be an example of the tactic either as a leader or a dupe. So sad. Just when everyone knows that we all must pull together or the selfish among us will pull the whole country apart.

you ought to get a look at the dictionary yourself

Implementation is the carrying out, execution, or practice of a plan i.e. doing.

which the Governor has said they have problems with (i.e. not good at). He didnt say "we are doing our plan exactly, but locals are interfering....."

if people are breaking down the barriers that is a "complication"

and yes, i am the leader of a conspiracy to discredit the Governor.........better get your tin foil hat set better on your head, some of the radio waves seem to be getting through......

[ratcatcher]

Quote""So, how can the Bangkok governor accuse the Irrigation Department of being uncooperative when he had sent the letter to the wrong place. Besides, even if the letter had got to the right place, we wouldn't have enough water pumps to spare for the BMA anyway. We are also short of pumps," the minister said."

This is what happens when you have a bureaucracy at work on a major disaster..

Sending letters requesting pumps?

Surely a phone call to the respective head of the department supplying pumps, would have been more appropriate?

Perhaps if there was a real emergency they'd use email.

Thai government vs Bangkok government co-operation =

[rogerdee123]

"The Bangkok governor, in a rare expression of agreement, confirmed: "We don't have problems with long-term planning but we do have problems with short-term implementation."

translation: "we are good at talking, but not good at doing......."

Excuse me? What dictionary are you using? "Having problems with" something does not mean "we are not good at" that thing. The problems in this particular case could be the difficulty in holding back ingorant, short sighted crowds being led by government elements in their attempt to go dangerously beyond the law. The Bangkok governor could be great at short-term implementation but admitted he was having problems because ignorant, self-centered people outside of his control were trying to sabotage the plans of the prime minister they themselves elected.

Of course many people choose to mislead others with catchy phrases hoping that others will accept them without ever really considering what they mean or their source. You might be an example of the tactic either as a leader or a dupe. So sad. Just when everyone knows that we all must pull together or the selfish among us will pull the whole country apart.

you ought to get a look at the dictionary yourself

Implementation is the carrying out, execution, or practice of a plan i.e. doing.

which the Governor has said they have problems with (i.e. not good at). He didnt say "we are doing our plan exactly, but locals are interfering....."

if people are breaking down the barriers that is a "complication"

and yes, i am the leader of a conspiracy to discredit the Governor.........better get your tin foil hat set better on your head, some of the radio waves seem to be getting through......

before you guys get carried away, I may be wrong .... but I'm guessing all this was said in Thai and not English.

[scorecard]

Quote""So, how can the Bangkok governor accuse the Irrigation Department of being uncooperative when he had sent the letter to the wrong place. Besides, even if the letter had got to the right place, we wouldn't have enough water pumps to spare for the BMA anyway. We are also short of pumps," the minister said."

This is what happens when you have a bureaucracy at work on a major disaster..

Sending letters requesting pumps?

Surely a phone call to the respective head of the department supplying pumps, would have been more appropriate?

Perhaps if there was a real emergency they'd use email.

Thai government vs Bangkok government co-operation =

Nice though but it's just not the way it works. I know from experience working in a Thai university which has exactly the same bureaucracy stuff.

I was appointed to a committee which meets 6 or 7 times a year at another campus, on the other side of Bangkok.

For every meetings there had to be (repeat had to be - because of protocol which cannot be changed or adjusted) a personal invitation with god knows how many supporting documents (and 90% of the content of each supporting document was the same as all the other supporting documents).

Then, it had to be signed, then had to be put into envelopes and go to another person for stamping about confidential etc., then it sat in a pigeon hole until the internal courier staff picked it up next day, then it was sent to the cross campus / other campus sorting room , then it went in a van ect etc.

Every invitation arrived on my desk 3 to 10 days after the meeting had been conducted.

I made several attempts to get an arrangement for someone to call me - response: 'Sorry we don't have a procedure to do that'.

[garrfeild]

Childrens games, Thai Politics is just that. It is far from a mature system. Especially when top jobs are handed out for favours or suport, past and present, or family where that person doesn't have the where withall mentally to grasp a situation and resolve it!

In certain respects you could say that what is happening is biblical Justice, Buddha sees the corruption and tricks. You could argue that no one is a victim as even the voters were greedy in voting for who would pay them the most for that vote?

[Payboy]

Not fair that only Yingluck and Sukhumbhand get the orange juice.

[inquisitive]

"The Bangkok governor, in a rare expression of agreement, confirmed: "We don't have problems with long-term planning but we do have problems with short-term implementation."

translation: "we are good at talking, but not good at doing......."

Excuse me? What dictionary are you using? "Having problems with" something does not mean "we are not good at" that thing. The problems in this particular case could be the difficulty in holding back ingorant, short sighted crowds being led by government elements in their attempt to go dangerously beyond the law. The Bangkok governor could be great at short-term implementation but admitted he was having problems because ignorant, self-centered people outside of his control were trying to sabotage the plans of the prime minister they themselves elected.

Of course many people choose to mislead others with catchy phrases hoping that others will accept them without ever really considering what they mean or their source. You might be an example of the tactic either as a leader or a dupe. So sad. Just when everyone knows that we all must pull together or the selfish among us will pull the whole country apart.

you ought to get a look at the dictionary yourself

Implementation is the carrying out, execution, or practice of a plan i.e. doing.

which the Governor has said they have problems with (i.e. not good at). He didnt say "we are doing our plan exactly, but locals are interfering....."

if people are breaking down the barriers that is a "complication"

and yes, i am the leader of a conspiracy to discredit the Governor.........better get your tin foil hat set better on your head, some of the radio waves seem to be getting through......

before you guys get carried away, I may be wrong .... but I'm guessing all this was said in Thai and not English.

Judging by the forum in which the original statement was made, I, too, would guess that the original statement was made in Thai. The "translation" made by our sophomoric poster, however, was no more than a brain fart since it obviously was attempt at wit that painfully missed the mark. I doubt he actually misunderstood, and I can't believe he thought I was actually (mis)quoting the governor, even though he tried to make it appear that I had. It appears to simply be an embarassed cover up rather than accepting his well-earned loss of face, since everyone knows that having problems with something does not necessarily mean not being good at the task. For example we all know an Olympic swimmer would be quite good at swimming even though he may have problems with his breathing due to a cold. So he would be good at the activity even though he may have problems carrying it out.

That's the reason I didn't bother responding earlier. And if by chance the s.p. really, really doesn't understand, then any attempt to try to educate him would be lost since he obviously has comprehension difficulties. And you know what? Somehow he's turning this discussion into the very same type of childrens' game that the OP was decrying. It's time the government stopped playing them, and it's also pretty dumb for the forum members to play them. I'm going to do my part by dropping out of this next round (even though I haven't had this much fun since I was five years old: "You're stupid." "No, you're stupid" "No, YOU'RE stupid." "Am not." "Are too." ...)