Inner Bangkok Will Not Be Submerged

[Payboy]

Ferrero Rocher

Is Italian no?

Yes but the point that eluded you was it was not the origin of the chocolate, it was the fact that their (Ferrero) most successful advertising campaign was the one that suggested that this was the Chocolate of choice for Ambassadors to give out at cocktail parties

Keep up mate

Sh!t, must've missed that press release. My bad.

[givenall]

Very stupid, 30 cm is submerged condition

[TomJoad]

My Prediction: As soon as this flood business is over, the price of sandbags is going to drop. All sizes and colors will be available.

[puntmeister]

We are in the yellow (2-3m) part on that elevation map. Most of BKK is not yellow its all lower. We have been flooded more then 65 cm in the streets. So please tell me why BKK would not flood.

All the parts in the north west and north east are higher as Bangkok. I guess water does behave different in Thailand. Maybe their dams will hold.. maybe not. I hope.. BKK wont flood but i dont think its chances are good.

I dont expect meters of water in BKK but 30cm is still flooded is not ?

I was thinking the same thing (actually, I was thinking I must be reading the map wrong...its in Thai, so who knows). But, from my read of the elevation map posted (Thanks to the poster, just the same), central Bangkok appears to be some of the lowest lying areas of greater Bangkok. Someone correct me if I'm wrong (you can even get all high and mighty about it, if you wish, I won't mind).

[puntmeister]

I didn't know Switzerland was an experienced country regarding flood management. Doesn't have a coastline and is mountainous. They should stick to corrupt and secretive banking, watches and chocolate. I'd much rather the Dutch be advising on Bangkok flood control.

Ever heard of snow? Do you know what happens to snow when it melts?

[erobando]

that elevation map is painful to look at. My house (west bkk) has been under a meter+ water for two weeks and it's elevation is higher that most other parts of the city.

I am no expert but pretty sure water should flow high to low. Talk to me until your blue in the face about the need to save inner Bangkok (what ever that means) but I want my home back.

The problem for those in Western Bangkok is that it's lower than Nonthaburi.

[robblok]

that elevation map is painful to look at. My house (west bkk) has been under a meter+ water for two weeks and it's elevation is higher that most other parts of the city.

I am no expert but pretty sure water should flow high to low. Talk to me until your blue in the face about the need to save inner Bangkok (what ever that means) but I want my home back.

The problem for those in Western Bangkok is that it's lower than Nonthaburi.

I am in Bang Yai Nonthaburi, not too far from BKK. We are flooded and we are higher.. what does that say about the water that is comming to BKK.

[whybother]

We are in the yellow (2-3m) part on that elevation map. Most of BKK is not yellow its all lower. We have been flooded more then 65 cm in the streets. So please tell me why BKK would not flood.

All the parts in the north west and north east are higher as Bangkok. I guess water does behave different in Thailand. Maybe their dams will hold.. maybe not. I hope.. BKK wont flood but i dont think its chances are good.

I dont expect meters of water in BKK but 30cm is still flooded is not ?

"So please tell me why BKK would not flood. "

Because of the 2.5 metre wall surrounding it.

[erobando]

I was thinking the same thing (actually, I was thinking I must be reading the map wrong...its in Thai, so who knows). But, from my read of the elevation map posted (Thanks to the poster, just the same), central Bangkok appears to be some of the lowest lying areas of greater Bangkok. Someone correct me if I'm wrong (you can even get all high and mighty about it, if you wish, I won't mind).

I won't get high and mighty, I don't think...

But the areas to the east of what they're calling Inner Bangkok are very low, so more water will flow there.

If they are able to slow down flow into Inner Bangkok, which they've been doing, even more water can be moved to the east.

Much of Western Bangkok is higher than the east, but the water is coming from directly above it (Nonthaburi).

Most of the land alongside the Chao Phraya is somewhat higher than other parts of Western Bangkok, so the water won't drift towards the river.

There is also flooding in Nontaburi so the areas that will next likely get the flooding are SW Bangkok and Samut Sakhon.

[DocN]

My Prediction: As soon as this flood business is over, the price of sandbags is going to drop. All sizes and colors will be available.

I ad one: rubberboots! Will take a bad tumble! Don't invest!

[whybother]

My Prediction: As soon as this flood business is over, the price of sandbags is going to drop. All sizes and colors will be available.

I ad one: rubberboots! Will take a bad tumble! Don't invest!

I'm just hoping that the beer supply gets back to normal.

[hellodolly]

I don't know how they make these predictions. And anyways, look at all they have gotten wrong so far...sure, it might not flood, but it also might flood...they need to stop pretending that they know what is going to happen and admit that they are all incompetent.

Funny the article I read said "experts from Switzerland" Now all of a sudden every one says they are incompetent. People are you a little confused. I agree that it is a strange thing to find flood experts in Switzerland but why does that make them incompetent?

[anterian]

well according to Google Earth my house it 5m above sea level, 2 weeks ago I had 70cm of water, now I have 50 cm of water. I think the water is dropping faster by evaporation than by run off.

[hellodolly]

The experts led by the Swiss ambassador? What makes her the expert? Last time I checked Switzerland is mostly comprised of mountains, and flooding is hardly an issue there.

I'm getting so bloody tired of all these so called experts "knowing" for sure what is going to happen. So far, they've all been wrong. Why has no one bothered to program a proper simulation tool? I'm pretty sure most technical universities would have a few students who can make something like that. We know the elevation of the terrain from satellite measurements, I'm sure the same can be used to properly calculate the amount of water, we know where the barriers are located, etc. Put all the variables in a computer, and run a few scenarios. That way we know what all these predictions are based on. Right now, the Swiss ambassador's guess is as good as mine...

Feeling better mate?????????? so maybe now you can take the time to read it (the article) and understand it.

I am not a native, but to me the obvious fact stated is :

The Swiss Ambassador led water management experts .... It does not mean the Ambassador is an expert in water management; merely that official presented said (or so called) experts to the Royal Thai government.

Second, I would invite you to spend some time in spring in Martiny, or in Gruyere, and then come back to us with your thoughts about flash flood in Switzerland. Having grow up in a similar region, I can tell flood are a potential catastrophe every spring. It is true it is more related to catastrophe management, while Nederland experts are more focused on day to day water management; but somehow it would seems today the first nameds are in need; while the holland guys will be needed AFTER (to avoid it to happen again).

you reflexion is similar to californian peoples laughting out of loud ob so called french seismic experts or tsunami expert located in French Riviera; untill they discovered that region is most active in both (half a dozen of quakes per year with half of them followed by tsunami .... said tsunami sending boats 100 m inside the coast ; happened twice in 1998 for example).

I'll concede that I wasn't aware of flash flooding being a problem in Switzerland, my bad. However, that still does not change the fact that we're not dealing with a flash flood. We're dealing with a huge amount of water that does not want to go away fast enough. Regardless of whoever the "experts" are that are being pulled in, be they Dutch, Swiss, Thai, or whatever else, so far I have not seen a single explanation based on facts or statistical analysis such as a simulation of the current situation. They all pull their explanations out of their hats, often contradicting each other directly, yet they're all expert and all claim to know best. Show me what these claims are based on, so that we can make our own informed decision of whether they're trying to sell us another fairytale (Bangkok won't flood....) or whether we can actually rely on the information for a change.

Secondly, politicians need to stay far, far away from all this. They know *bleep* all about water management and should leave the decision making to those who do. They're the ones who got us into this mess, and they're certainly not capable of getting us out. This includes the PM, Abhisit, Sukhumband, and all the others who are more interested in saving their precious votes than the country as a whole. That's why I get annoyed when I see that yet another ambassador is pulled into the picture. I don't care if the experts are "led" (whatever that might mean if my interpretation's not correct) by the Swiss ambassador or by Santa Claus. If they're experts, get the job done. If not, go home and keep your comments to yourself.

First you say and I quote

"Regardless of whoever the "experts" are that are being pulled in, be they Dutch, Swiss, Thai, or whatever else,"

Experts with varying opinions reminds me of when I was taking Criminology. My instructor said that most collages had professors (experts) who could not agree on the time of day using the same watch. LOL

Then you go on to say and once again I quote

"Secondly, politicians need to stay far, far away from all this. They know *bleep* all about water management and should leave the decision making to those who do" ( I whole heartedly agree with that)

Just curious who do you think we should get to deal with the problem

My take on it is it is far to late to deal with it. If the army had been given a free hand with it in the beginning the problem would be a lot less than it is today. They could have done the correct things instead of worrying who they were going to offend or lose the votes off.

When it is all over and done with it will be time to bring in the experts who have proven track record of water management in flood prone areas. Also areas prone to drought..

Any one seen any pictures of politicians doing any thing constructive short of the obligatory symbolic gestures for photo ops.?

[DocN]

My Prediction: As soon as this flood business is over, the price of sandbags is going to drop. All sizes and colors will be available.

I ad one: rubberboots! Will take a bad tumble! Don't invest!

I'm just hoping that the beer supply gets back to normal.

OH LORD, YES PLEASE! I had to drink Chang EXPORT and St. Miguel light...what has the world been coming to!?

[MaxYakov]

I was out in the floods yesterday it moved from JJ market to Sapan Qua in two days. It is coming slowly but surely. JJ was dry and only a couple of days ago only one lane had water now that place is a lake.

GM Link A KM or less from JJ to SK BTS.

[BabySun]

The experts led by the Swiss ambassador? What makes her the expert? Last time I checked Switzerland is mostly comprised of mountains, and flooding is hardly an issue there.

I'm getting so bloody tired of all these so called experts "knowing" for sure what is going to happen. So far, they've all been wrong. Why has no one bothered to program a proper simulation tool? I'm pretty sure most technical universities would have a few students who can make something like that. We know the elevation of the terrain from satellite measurements, I'm sure the same can be used to properly calculate the amount of water, we know where the barriers are located, etc. Put all the variables in a computer, and run a few scenarios. That way we know what all these predictions are based on. Right now, the Swiss ambassador's guess is as good as mine...

Have you been to Switzerland or you know the world from google?

They have flash floods.Very dangerous.

And Swiss are very clever people,their ambassadors including.

I do not trust your guess,mine is better.

Where are you from?My guess - North Korea?

[Payboy]

I didn't know Switzerland was an experienced country regarding flood management. Doesn't have a coastline and is mountainous. They should stick to corrupt and secretive banking, watches and chocolate. I'd much rather the Dutch be advising on Bangkok flood control.

Ever heard of snow? Do you know what happens to snow when it melts?

More importantly, where does the White disappear when snow melts?

[SteeleJoe]

The experts led by the Swiss ambassador? What makes her the expert? Last time I checked Switzerland is mostly comprised of mountains, and flooding is hardly an issue there.

I'm getting so bloody tired of all these so called experts "knowing" for sure what is going to happen. So far, they've all been wrong. Why has no one bothered to program a proper simulation tool? I'm pretty sure most technical universities would have a few students who can make something like that. We know the elevation of the terrain from satellite measurements, I'm sure the same can be used to properly calculate the amount of water, we know where the barriers are located, etc. Put all the variables in a computer, and run a few scenarios. That way we know what all these predictions are based on. Right now, the Swiss ambassador's guess is as good as mine...

Nowhere is it suggested that Ambassador is an expert, methinks. She led the group of Swiss experts to meet the PM -- precisely the sort of thing an Ambassador does. Whether the Swiss experts are right or not, I don't think their posit is "the Ambassador's guess". (And how do you know they -- and/or others, for that matter -- didn't 'bother to program a proper simulation tool'?)

They all pull their explanations out of their hats, often contradicting each other directly, yet they're all expert and all claim to know best. Show me what these claims are based on, so that we can make our own informed decision of whether they're trying to sell us another fairytale

How do you know they "all pull their explanations out of their hats"? (emphasis mine) And if they did, then how can they show what the claims are based on?

[travelmann]

Inner Bangkok will not be submerged

The Nation

If the capital does get inundated, floods in inner Bangkok should be no more than 30centimetre high, flood and water management experts from Switzerland were quoted as telling the premier yesterday.

Totally misleading title.

The title says 'Bangkok will not be submerged', then the first line says 'If the capital does get inundated, floods in inner Bangkok should be no more than 30centimetre high'.

Sorry, but 30 cm under water IS submerged, in my book anyway.

You wouldnt say that if you were on the Titanic, although it does feel like we are on it at the moment!!!

[happysoul]

First a thought to the people in water... Hope it will get over asap

I didn't know Switzerland was an experienced country regarding flood management. Doesn't have a coastline and is mountainous. They should stick to corrupt and secretive banking, watches and chocolate. I'd much rather the Dutch be advising on Bangkok flood control.

Whaow, you a smart open minded person ! Read this http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_news/Swiss_learn_lessons_from_2005_floods.html?cid=31341826

and then ever heard of EPFL and EPFZ (that's french abreviation but you are so smart that i don't even doubt you can speak French). They must be in the top 50 scientist universities in the world. These people know how to think.

Let me guess, you're american !

Well, now we have it, the Thai Government can blame the Swiss. If the water does come and goes 1 cm over 30 cm then it will be the fault of the Swiss experts. I feel the Swiss Ambassador would have been better staying well out of what is a highly charged political situation as well as everything else, and perhaps should just concentrate on smiling herself and handing out Ferrero Rocher.

Could be right... or not.... Swiss and thai have good relationship since 2nd world war, when the King and the Queen were in university in Lausanne.

Coming back on the subject, not knowing what is going to happen is hard for people. Having as many advise as possible (even when conflicting) is imo a good point, wherever these prediction come from, thai, swiss, dutch... It's not time to have nationalist wars. Let's work together to get the situation at it's best, when over can start again nationalism !

Sorry for some spelling mistakes, but when i see how some native english write and that english is my fifth language i don't give a pumking (say it in thai)

[newermonkey]

The experts led by the Swiss ambassador? What makes her the expert? Last time I checked Switzerland is mostly comprised of mountains, and flooding is hardly an issue there.

I'm getting so bloody tired of all these so called experts "knowing" for sure what is going to happen. So far, they've all been wrong. Why has no one bothered to program a proper simulation tool? I'm pretty sure most technical universities would have a few students who can make something like that. We know the elevation of the terrain from satellite measurements, I'm sure the same can be used to properly calculate the amount of water, we know where the barriers are located, etc. Put all the variables in a computer, and run a few scenarios. That way we know what all these predictions are based on. Right now, the Swiss ambassador's guess is as good as mine...

A computer could never predict this, because every single element must be entered and there is no way to do that its just too big a job, they would have to enter every drain (Not even the city engineers know that) enter every crack in the klong walls, every underground soil seepage. then they would have to know the exact levels of the water coming in through a specified time sequence. Then the exact ground levels (that one is easy). they would have to enter the exact amount of water being pumped out the amount of that water trying to return, the tide levels at any moment, the flow capacity of every klong drain and ditch. I could go on and on but I think you get it?

Too many factors, a computer is only as good as the programmer and the data entered. The best bet is to listen to the city engineers, especially the ones that look after the klongs and pumps. they can give a rough idea, that all we are going to get.

[newermonkey]

First a thought to the people in water... Hope it will get over asap

I didn't know Switzerland was an experienced country regarding flood management. Doesn't have a coastline and is mountainous. They should stick to corrupt and secretive banking, watches and chocolate. I'd much rather the Dutch be advising on Bangkok flood control.

Whaow, you a smart open minded person ! Read this http://www.swissinfo...ml?cid=31341826

and then ever heard of EPFL and EPFZ (that's french abreviation but you are so smart that i don't even doubt you can speak French). They must be in the top 50 scientist universities in the world. These people know how to think.

Let me guess, you're american !

Well, now we have it, the Thai Government can blame the Swiss. If the water does come and goes 1 cm over 30 cm then it will be the fault of the Swiss experts. I feel the Swiss Ambassador would have been better staying well out of what is a highly charged political situation as well as everything else, and perhaps should just concentrate on smiling herself and handing out Ferrero Rocher.

Could be right... or not.... Swiss and thai have good relationship since 2nd world war, when the King and the Queen were in university in Lausanne.

Coming back on the subject, not knowing what is going to happen is hard for people. Having as many advise as possible (even when conflicting) is imo a good point, wherever these prediction come from, thai, swiss, dutch... It's not time to have nationalist wars. Let's work together to get the situation at it's best, when over can start again nationalism !

Sorry for some spelling mistakes, but when i see how some native english write and that english is my fifth language i don't give a pumking (say it in thai)

I dono.. you know when I listen to the Swiss talking they all sound like Einsteins but when the Dutch talk they all sound like tulip farmers or brothel owners so I would rather listen to the Swiss, they always sound so believable, even when they are bullshitting.

[HardenedSoul]

I don't know how they make these predictions. And anyways, look at all they have gotten wrong so far...sure, it might not flood, but it also might flood...they need to stop pretending that they know what is going to happen and admit that they are all incompetent.

Funny the article I read said "experts from Switzerland" Now all of a sudden every one says they are incompetent. People are you a little confused. I agree that it is a strange thing to find flood experts in Switzerland but why does that make them incompetent?

In the minds of these blinkered buffoons, there is no one with a solution, no one with relevant experience and no one better qualified than they to advise on the likely progress of the flood waters.

They won't entertain the notion that, just because these experts hail from Switzerland, they may not, perhaps, have gained their experience in, wait for it . . . other countries. No, instead, they prefer to rail against anything and anyone who doesn't share their narrow, Lazyboy recliner perspectives. I, for one, am eternally grateful that TV's forums and, perhaps, the bargirls fleecing them at their local watering holes are as far as their idiotic musings get.

[givenall]

We are in the yellow (2-3m) part on that elevation map. Most of BKK is not yellow its all lower. We have been flooded more then 65 cm in the streets. So please tell me why BKK would not flood.

All the parts in the north west and north east are higher as Bangkok. I guess water does behave different in Thailand. Maybe their dams will hold.. maybe not. I hope.. BKK wont flood but i dont think its chances are good.

I dont expect meters of water in BKK but 30cm is still flooded is not ?

I was thinking the same thing (actually, I was thinking I must be reading the map wrong...its in Thai, so who knows). But, from my read of the elevation map posted (Thanks to the poster, just the same), central Bangkok appears to be some of the lowest lying areas of greater Bangkok. Someone correct me if I'm wrong (you can even get all high and mighty about it, if you wish, I won't mind).

May be because the government is holding the water back tocreate water front property for everyone in Rangsit

[Kvwielink]

The experts led by the Swiss ambassador? What makes her the expert? Last time I checked Switzerland is mostly comprised of mountains, and flooding is hardly an issue there.

I'm getting so bloody tired of all these so called experts "knowing" for sure what is going to happen. So far, they've all been wrong. Why has no one bothered to program a proper simulation tool? I'm pretty sure most technical universities would have a few students who can make something like that. We know the elevation of the terrain from satellite measurements, I'm sure the same can be used to properly calculate the amount of water, we know where the barriers are located, etc. Put all the variables in a computer, and run a few scenarios. That way we know what all these predictions are based on. Right now, the Swiss ambassador's guess is as good as mine...

Feeling better mate?????????? so maybe now you can take the time to read it (the article) and understand it.

I am not a native, but to me the obvious fact stated is :

The Swiss Ambassador led water management experts .... It does not mean the Ambassador is an expert in water management; merely that official presented said (or so called) experts to the Royal Thai government.

Second, I would invite you to spend some time in spring in Martiny, or in Gruyere, and then come back to us with your thoughts about flash flood in Switzerland. Having grow up in a similar region, I can tell flood are a potential catastrophe every spring. It is true it is more related to catastrophe management, while Nederland experts are more focused on day to day water management; but somehow it would seems today the first nameds are in need; while the holland guys will be needed AFTER (to avoid it to happen again).

you reflexion is similar to californian peoples laughting out of loud ob so called french seismic experts or tsunami expert located in French Riviera; untill they discovered that region is most active in both (half a dozen of quakes per year with half of them followed by tsunami .... said tsunami sending boats 100 m inside the coast ; happened twice in 1998 for example).

I'll concede that I wasn't aware of flash flooding being a problem in Switzerland, my bad. However, that still does not change the fact that we're not dealing with a flash flood. We're dealing with a huge amount of water that does not want to go away fast enough. Regardless of whoever the "experts" are that are being pulled in, be they Dutch, Swiss, Thai, or whatever else, so far I have not seen a single explanation based on facts or statistical analysis such as a simulation of the current situation. They all pull their explanations out of their hats, often contradicting each other directly, yet they're all expert and all claim to know best. Show me what these claims are based on, so that we can make our own informed decision of whether they're trying to sell us another fairytale (Bangkok won't flood....) or whether we can actually rely on the information for a change.

Secondly, politicians need to stay far, far away from all this. They know *bleep* all about water management and should leave the decision making to those who do. They're the ones who got us into this mess, and they're certainly not capable of getting us out. This includes the PM, Abhisit, Sukhumband, and all the others who are more interested in saving their precious votes than the country as a whole. That's why I get annoyed when I see that yet another ambassador is pulled into the picture. I don't care if the experts are "led" (whatever that might mean if my interpretation's not correct) by the Swiss ambassador or by Santa Claus. If they're experts, get the job done. If not, go home and keep your comments to yourself.

First you say and I quote

"Regardless of whoever the "experts" are that are being pulled in, be they Dutch, Swiss, Thai, or whatever else,"

Experts with varying opinions reminds me of when I was taking Criminology. My instructor said that most collages had professors (experts) who could not agree on the time of day using the same watch. LOL

Then you go on to say and once again I quote

"Secondly, politicians need to stay far, far away from all this. They know *bleep* all about water management and should leave the decision making to those who do" ( I whole heartedly agree with that)

Just curious who do you think we should get to deal with the problem

My take on it is it is far to late to deal with it. If the army had been given a free hand with it in the beginning the problem would be a lot less than it is today. They could have done the correct things instead of worrying who they were going to offend or lose the votes off.

When it is all over and done with it will be time to bring in the experts who have proven track record of water management in flood prone areas. Also areas prone to drought..

Any one seen any pictures of politicians doing any thing constructive short of the obligatory symbolic gestures for photo ops.?

I'll be the first to admit I do not have all the answers. Of course I do not consider myself an expert on the subject of water management. My point was that all these experts that have come forth with their certainties and analysis have all been proven wrong. I know that people will always disagree even if they are well versed in their professions and that there is not always one correct answer. But I think you already answered the question who I think should deal with the problem. To quote you "experts who have proven track record of water management in flood prone areas". I seriously doubt that all the experts we have heard have such credentials. Of course I could be wrong, but after all the conflicting reports you'd think that even the experts would be somewhat conservative in their opinions, rather than stating that "inner Bangkok will not be submerged" while the Saen Saab canal is currently overflowing in Bangkapi district.

Although I'm not convinced the army would have necessarily done a better job, they should have brought in weeks ago to prevent the protections that were put into place being torn down by local mobs. I do fully share your sentiment on the politicians though.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts have been removed, lets get back on topic: Inner Bangkok Will Not Be Submerged.

[thaigold]

The experts led by the Swiss ambassador? What makes her the expert? Last time I checked Switzerland is mostly comprised of mountains, and flooding is hardly an issue there.

I'm getting so bloody tired of all these so called experts "knowing" for sure what is going to happen. So far, they've all been wrong. Why has no one bothered to program a proper simulation tool? I'm pretty sure most technical universities would have a few students who can make something like that. We know the elevation of the terrain from satellite measurements, I'm sure the same can be used to properly calculate the amount of water, we know where the barriers are located, etc. Put all the variables in a computer, and run a few scenarios. That way we know what all these predictions are based on. Right now, the Swiss ambassador's guess is as good as mine...

Will Rogers once said,"An expert is someone from fifty miles away with a briefcase", or to that affect.

[Kvwielink]

The experts led by the Swiss ambassador? What makes her the expert? Last time I checked Switzerland is mostly comprised of mountains, and flooding is hardly an issue there.

I'm getting so bloody tired of all these so called experts "knowing" for sure what is going to happen. So far, they've all been wrong. Why has no one bothered to program a proper simulation tool? I'm pretty sure most technical universities would have a few students who can make something like that. We know the elevation of the terrain from satellite measurements, I'm sure the same can be used to properly calculate the amount of water, we know where the barriers are located, etc. Put all the variables in a computer, and run a few scenarios. That way we know what all these predictions are based on. Right now, the Swiss ambassador's guess is as good as mine...

Will Rogers once said,"An expert is someone from fifty miles away with a briefcase", or to that affect.

The Thai government seems to use the same definition

[SiamRose]

St Bernard dogs. Sadly the rum or brandy is a myth.