Successful Relationships With Thai Women

[TingTawng]

Your being overly harsh on the West, the West is struggling under some unexpected consequences of the rapid advance of capitalism. One consequence is the reduction in birth rate / longevity. Simply put many people now moving into their dotage had small families, or no family at all.

Because in the west, you're told you don't need a family, the government will take care of you. Now look - governments can't afford to keep people into their old age, and are telling people to keep working until they drop. State pensions are a poor substitute to an extended family and it's obvious now that an elderly person needs savings / private pension to survive on their own. The whole economic model in the west runs counter to family life because the idea of extended families is anathema to a growing economy - we all need to do our bit to consume for the economy first and foremost (western mentality).

Thailand and China will not face these problems because they don't have welfare; the Thai and Chinese governments know that the family is the best support for elderly people, not the government which can't physically look after old people other than dole out some meagre payment each month. In the west, the family support networks have been fractured for a lot of people - there simply is no family support anymore.

Feminism is to blame for most of the breakup in traditional family life.

Feminists are just "useful idiots" to the government's own drive to atomise the family for economic expedience. The ultimate economy is where we all live alone and need one of everything in our homes - it's the optimal economy western governments work toward. Feminism has certainly sped up this process.

What you mean is women had the cheek to demand the right to vote?

Well, feminism is a BIT more than simply women being able to vote. It's become an industry over the last 20 years, and there's hundreds of issues they are campaigning for - many of which aren't seeking to simply gain parity with men, but gaining advantage over men under the disguise of "equality". To sum up feminism as "women being able to vote" is to simplify it way too much.

Edited November 28, 2011 by TingTawng

[PattaniMan]

Hi-so, Lo-so? My wife is neither. She is a good hearted, hard working farm girl who doesn't own a dress or any makeup, not even a tube of lipstick.

I'm a crotchety old farm boy whose uniform of the day is shorts, a T shirt and flip flops. She is a good cook and her food preparing is sanitary and tastes better than most restaurants. No way would I dress up to go out to eat and socialize with the supposed Hi-so snobs.

I have tried for the past seven years to convince her to give up working in the fields to no avail. She has been cutting rice for the past week and her and the other co-op girls are now cutting sugar cane.

I am free to do whatever I want while she is working including taking roads trip to wherever I want to go. I seldom go anywhere because I am quite content to stay home.

If I take a road trip she doesn't have to clean house or cook for me but I enjoy my dog, our fish pond and my own company. I go up the mountain to my favorite watering hole to drink beer with a Thai friend and a couple local farangs a couple times a week. I don't watch TV but do spend quite a bit of time on the Internet. Life is good out here in the boonies. I really don't know what I would do without my wife.

Sorry to drag this thread back on topic, but that was a nice post. Good luck to you and your wife.

[BRichards]

I can't help but think that the reason is money. In the west most parents would have their own independent source of income such as pension. Thus, no need for monetary support or the kids to look after them. In Thailand the vast majority do not have any income when they get old so they become the responsibility of their children. It makes sens to have your parents to live with you in that scenario as it is cheaper than renting somewhere separate for them. However, there are more than enough Thais who dump their parents leaving the to abject poverty. A dumped parent in the West would still have social security to fall back on.

Sure but isn't this the heart of relationships / family life? That there's a certain amount of dependency on each other. You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. A grandparent might live with her son and his family, but she helps look after the small kid much of the time, and cooks and cleans around the house. That kind of thing. This has been how families have lived for generations.

In the west, we're all taught to be super-independent, but I'm not sure that's the healthiest way to live a life if it means you've either got nobody who can look after you when you really need help (state pension only goes so far, and it doesn't give you the emotional sustenance a family can give you), or you have nobody relying on you. A lot of people would say "I'm glad I have nobody relying on my help" but for many it's actually a satisfying part of life to actually helping others (shock, I know). We're taught to rely on the government to wipe our bottoms and feed us if we need help - again, I don't believe that's the best way to run a society because it means families are less relied-upon. I think the west has been running a kind of socialist experiment (that's been failing) over the last 40 years or so - every individual ultimately relying on big government.

True in the West we are raised to be financially independent but emotionally supported. Once married then in most cases financial can be multiplied. men and women are raised to not depend or trade emotions for money and to rely on themselves but family is still important. Look at the news last holiday in USA at how many people traveled to be with their families.

[Gary A]

Maybe I was luckier than most. It took me about ten years of living in Thailand to find a Thai wife I thought I could get along with. I had a number of good girlfriends but they had kids and I'm too selfish to put up with and/or raise kids who belong to someone else. I was willing to pay sin sot but left it up to my wife. I paid NO sin sot nor did we have a big wedding.

I know my wife gives money to her parents but she has four sisters who also help them, so it is not much. My wife works hard for her money and how she spends it is up to her. I have a condo in Jomtien that is in my name. I live upcountry in HER house. I have westernized it to suit myself but that was my decision. She has a car that is in her name and I have a pickup that is in my name.

Generalizing is not at all accurate and I suspect that the most bitter posters thought with their little heads and used no logic to find a wife. Those educated worldly farangs got outsmarted by uneducated country girls, thus they are bitter. They only have themselves to blame.

Could my wife throw me out tomorrow? She can make it on her own. Anything can happen but I assure you that I will still have a roof over my head and will miss no meals. The financial loss wouldn't bother me near as much as losing my wife.

[TingTawng]

I can't help but think that the reason is money. In the west most parents would have their own independent source of income such as pension. Thus, no need for monetary support or the kids to look after them. In Thailand the vast majority do not have any income when they get old so they become the responsibility of their children. It makes sens to have your parents to live with you in that scenario as it is cheaper than renting somewhere separate for them. However, there are more than enough Thais who dump their parents leaving the to abject poverty. A dumped parent in the West would still have social security to fall back on.

Sure but isn't this the heart of relationships / family life? That there's a certain amount of dependency on each other. You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. A grandparent might live with her son and his family, but she helps look after the small kid much of the time, and cooks and cleans around the house. That kind of thing. This has been how families have lived for generations.

In the west, we're all taught to be super-independent, but I'm not sure that's the healthiest way to live a life if it means you've either got nobody who can look after you when you really need help (state pension only goes so far, and it doesn't give you the emotional sustenance a family can give you), or you have nobody relying on you. A lot of people would say "I'm glad I have nobody relying on my help" but for many it's actually a satisfying part of life to actually helping others (shock, I know). We're taught to rely on the government to wipe our bottoms and feed us if we need help - again, I don't believe that's the best way to run a society because it means families are less relied-upon. I think the west has been running a kind of socialist experiment (that's been failing) over the last 40 years or so - every individual ultimately relying on big government.

True in the West we are raised to be financially independent but emotionally supported. Once married then in most cases financial can be multiplied. men and women are raised to not depend or trade emotions for money and to rely on themselves but family is still important. Look at the news last holiday in USA at how many people traveled to be with their families.

I disagree with the "emotionally supported" bit - average house occupancy rates are so low in the west when compared to asian countries. You can't really (truly) support someone from a distance in the same way you can offer help if you live under the same roof or nearby - "out of sight, out of mind". In the west, everything is answered by money, not physical support from your nearbyfamily. Need help? Here's some welfare money. It doesn't answer all the needs a human being has in the same way a family can. You just can't replace everything with money. The irony is a lot of farangs are more obsessed with money than Thais - a farang can see a family as a group of individuals who just happen to live under the same roof (and only look after themselves as individuals), not as a "team". You can't bring that mentality to Thailand and not expect trouble.

Edited November 28, 2011 by TingTawng

[BRichards]

I can't help but think that the reason is money. In the west most parents would have their own independent source of income such as pension. Thus, no need for monetary support or the kids to look after them. In Thailand the vast majority do not have any income when they get old so they become the responsibility of their children. It makes sens to have your parents to live with you in that scenario as it is cheaper than renting somewhere separate for them. However, there are more than enough Thais who dump their parents leaving the to abject poverty. A dumped parent in the West would still have social security to fall back on.

Sure but isn't this the heart of relationships / family life? That there's a certain amount of dependency on each other. You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. A grandparent might live with her son and his family, but she helps look after the small kid much of the time, and cooks and cleans around the house. That kind of thing. This has been how families have lived for generations.

In the west, we're all taught to be super-independent, but I'm not sure that's the healthiest way to live a life if it means you've either got nobody who can look after you when you really need help (state pension only goes so far, and it doesn't give you the emotional sustenance a family can give you), or you have nobody relying on you. A lot of people would say "I'm glad I have nobody relying on my help" but for many it's actually a satisfying part of life to actually helping others (shock, I know). We're taught to rely on the government to wipe our bottoms and feed us if we need help - again, I don't believe that's the best way to run a society because it means families are less relied-upon. I think the west has been running a kind of socialist experiment (that's been failing) over the last 40 years or so - every individual ultimately relying on big government.

True in the West we are raised to be financially independent but emotionally supported. Once married then in most cases financial can be multiplied. men and women are raised to not depend or trade emotions for money and to rely on themselves but family is still important. Look at the news last holiday in USA at how many people traveled to be with their families.

I disagree with the "emotionally supported" bit - average house occupancy rates are so low in the west when compared to asian countries. You can't really (truly) support someone from a distance in the same way you can offer help if you live under the same roof or nearby - "out of sight, out of mind". In the west, everything is answered by money, not physical support from your nearbyfamily. Need help? Here's some welfare money. It doesn't answer all the needs a human being has in the same way a family can. You just can't replace everything with money. The irony is a lot of farangs are more obsessed with money than Thais - a farang can see a family as a group of individuals who just happen to live under the same roof (and only look after themselves as individuals), not as a "team". You can't bring that mentality to Thailand and not expect trouble.

True again in the West most families (husband, wife and kids) have their own home and their parents have their own home. We also have cars and in many cases we can drive 10 mins to eat dinner with family members everyday. We also have neighbors come over on the weekends and also have neighborhood cook outs so thats support. During the week we will have 5 kids hang out with the kids and sometimes my kids go over there. In USA it is made of of all the cultures in the world so in Miami we have many Latins (spanish people as I am) and we build a house on or property for our parents and some build a second floor for their parent to live and take care of the kids. Yes in USA and the West many do have to move to get more work opportunities but in most cases a week off from work will mean a trip back home to family. yes in the West the government do help their citizens so the government gives money and health care and provide free food too so the government does what it cans. farangs have jobs and in many cases the Thai women are not after Thai men for a certain reason by the way. why is it that thai wome are after foreighn men who dont speak nor know their culture? look at the web sites?

[TingTawng]

why is it that thai wome are after foreighn men who dont speak nor know their culture? look at the web sites?

The same reason ALL women around the world look for a good provider. There's nothing wrong with that - it's nature. It's like saying "why do men look for good looking women?" - it's nature. We can pretend that we are all noble and marry someone only for their character and kindness, but we all have our conditions that need to be met. I don't see the point in fighting nature - let it out the door, it comes back in through the window.

While your own personal story in the USA sounds healthy and family-friendly, I don't think this is typical where I am from in the UK. There's a lot of people who live alone (with many elderly who live alone too), and there's become an over-reliance on the government, and a whithering of family ties because we are taught that the state - not the family - will look after us. Now I think the west is reaping the consequences - broke governments, people without family support. I think family support too is a part of nature - we naturally cluster into small groups and help each other. It's not natural to have a faceless bureaucracy like a government as your sole means of support.

Edited November 28, 2011 by TingTawng

[villagefarang]

Maybe I was luckier than most. It took me about ten years of living in Thailand to find a Thai wife I thought I could get along with. I had a number of good girlfriends but they had kids and I'm too selfish to put up with and/or raise kids who belong to someone else. I was willing to pay sin sot but left it up to my wife. I paid NO sin sot nor did we have a big wedding.

I know my wife gives money to her parents but she has four sisters who also help them, so it is not much. My wife works hard for her money and how she spends it is up to her. I have a condo in Jomtien that is in my name. I live upcountry in HER house. I have westernized it to suit myself but that was my decision. She has a car that is in her name and I have a pickup that is in my name.

Generalizing is not at all accurate and I suspect that the most bitter posters thought with their little heads and used no logic to find a wife. Those educated worldly farangs got outsmarted by uneducated country girls, thus they are bitter. They only have themselves to blame.

Could my wife throw me out tomorrow? She can make it on her own. Anything can happen but I assure you that I will still have a roof over my head and will miss no meals. The financial loss wouldn't bother me near as much as losing my wife.

You are a fast worker. It took me over twenty years to find mine. I’m not complaining here, that was a prolific and fun filled twenty years.

I feel that men would make better choices if they spent some time in Thailand first, learned the language and then looked for a partner. Otherwise you are fumbling around in the dark without a clue. You might get lucky and trip over your soulmate in the dark but I wouldn’t count on it. Cross-cultural relationships can be great if you know what you are doing but a nightmare if you don't.

[BRichards]

why is it that thai wome are after foreighn men who dont speak nor know their culture? look at the web sites?

The same reason ALL women around the world look for a good provider. There's nothing wrong with that - it's nature. It's like saying "why do men look for good looking women?" - it's nature. We can pretend that we are all noble and marry someone only for their character and kindness, but we all have our conditions that need to be met. I don't see the point in fighting nature - let it out the door, it comes back in through the window.

While your own personal story in the USA sounds healthy and family-friendly, I don't think this is typical where I am from in the UK. There's a lot of people who live alone (with many elderly who live alone too), and there's become an over-reliance on the government, and a whithering of family ties because we are taught that the state - not the family - will look after us. Now I think the west is reaping the consequences - broke governments, people without family support. I think family support too is a part of nature - we naturally cluster into small groups and help each other. It's not natural to have a faceless bureaucracy like a government as your sole means of support.

Nature and human made worlds. In the Wset and now in Asia women are able to be educated and be finacially self supported so educated woman can look for better more importan reasons to fill their inner core qualities. In the West you will not be seeing teenage women with old fat men and in many cases you will see middle age women with teenage boys. Educated and well experienced men who are able to get all kinds of women will realize that a woman you can spend saturdays with will be more helpful and enjoyable then a woman he can spend a friday night with. Nature = animal world and yes we do carry that trait we also have a frontal lobe that in time once mature we can use to make the best long tern choices. I agree with you on the importance of family and support which i mean emotional more then money wise. I guess Uk are different and maybe colder maybe thats why UK men have been rated as the worst lovers that lack emotional care. I didnt say it but it is from a survey that has been going on for over 7 years. If a woman has no education or cannot get a real job that will pay her as a human should be paid then her only way out is finding a meal ticket which will really care for her more then easy sex. if a man cant find quality women due to his lack of inner worth or his harsh demands and he has to find willing partners i hope they can one day learn and find a real partner. We all end up with a partner that has a lot of room to grow because we too have a lot to learn.

[TingTawng]

why is it that thai wome are after foreighn men who dont speak nor know their culture? look at the web sites?

The same reason ALL women around the world look for a good provider. There's nothing wrong with that - it's nature. It's like saying "why do men look for good looking women?" - it's nature. We can pretend that we are all noble and marry someone only for their character and kindness, but we all have our conditions that need to be met. I don't see the point in fighting nature - let it out the door, it comes back in through the window.

While your own personal story in the USA sounds healthy and family-friendly, I don't think this is typical where I am from in the UK. There's a lot of people who live alone (with many elderly who live alone too), and there's become an over-reliance on the government, and a whithering of family ties because we are taught that the state - not the family - will look after us. Now I think the west is reaping the consequences - broke governments, people without family support. I think family support too is a part of nature - we naturally cluster into small groups and help each other. It's not natural to have a faceless bureaucracy like a government as your sole means of support.

Nature and human made worlds. In the Wset and now in Asia women are able to be educated and be finacially self supported so educated woman can look for better more importan reasons to fill their inner core qualities. In the West you will not be seeing teenage women with old fat men and in many cases you will see middle age women with teenage boys. Educated and well experienced men who are able to get all kinds of women will realize that a woman you can spend saturdays with will be more helpful and enjoyable then a woman he can spend a friday night with. Nature = animal world and yes we do carry that trait we also have a frontal lobe that in time once mature we can use to make the best long tern choices. I agree with you on the importance of family and support which i mean emotional more then money wise. I guess Uk are different and maybe colder maybe thats why UK men have been rated as the worst lovers that lack emotional care. I didnt say it but it is from a survey that has been going on for over 7 years. If a woman has no education or cannot get a real job that will pay her as a human should be paid then her only way out is finding a meal ticket which will really care for her more then easy sex. if a man cant find quality women due to his lack of inner worth or his harsh demands and he has to find willing partners i hope they can one day learn and find a real partner. We all end up with a partner that has a lot of room to grow because we too have a lot to learn.

Well I don't think you should dismiss our natural tendencies as you do. Nature is not all bad, in fact it's a great teacher, and often it's something we should not fight against, but work with. I don't think someone who is gay should fight his / her nature for example, even if there is pressure in the town where he/she lives to conform to the "human-made world" (the nurture side of the argument). Nature is not all bad, nurture is not all good. In fact, quite often, nurture is simply social engineering - trying to force people into roles they don't want to be part of. I think there's quite a bit of that in the west.

We are all born with natural tendencies and preferences, and I believe the natural differences between men and women are manifested in the different decisions men and women make. In the west, women still marry "up" (i.e. tend to marry men who earn more than they do). You might point out an anecdotal exception or two to this rule, but it's a rule nonetheless. In that sense, Thai women and western women are no different - and in fact, I think generally speaking people ARE the same around the world, it's the CULTURE that is different (an important distinction to make).

Not sure what "study" you read that says UK men are the "worst lovers" (whatever that means) - I don't really understand what that has AT ALL to do with governments chipping away at family life through their policies to make people more reliant on the state (my previous point).

Edited November 28, 2011 by TingTawng

[ludditeman]

Nature and human made worlds. In the Wset and now in Asia women are able to be educated and be finacially self supported so educated woman can look for better more importan reasons to fill their inner core qualities. In the West you will not be seeing teenage women with old fat men and in many cases you will see middle age women with teenage boys. Educated and well experienced men who are able to get all kinds of women will realize that a woman you can spend saturdays with will be more helpful and enjoyable then a woman he can spend a friday night with. Nature = animal world and yes we do carry that trait we also have a frontal lobe that in time once mature we can use to make the best long tern choices. I agree with you on the importance of family and support which i mean emotional more then money wise. I guess Uk are different and maybe colder maybe thats why UK men have been rated as the worst lovers that lack emotional care. I didnt say it but it is from a survey that has been going on for over 7 years. If a woman has no education or cannot get a real job that will pay her as a human should be paid then her only way out is finding a meal ticket which will really care for her more then easy sex. if a man cant find quality women due to his lack of inner worth or his harsh demands and he has to find willing partners i hope they can one day learn and find a real partner. We all end up with a partner that has a lot of room to grow because we too have a lot to learn.

You have completely bought the feminist/PC line.

Well done. Enjoy your 'relationship' as the doormat.

[eek]

Nature and human made worlds. In the Wset and now in Asia women are able to be educated and be finacially self supported so educated woman can look for better more importan reasons to fill their inner core qualities. In the West you will not be seeing teenage women with old fat men and in many cases you will see middle age women with teenage boys. Educated and well experienced men who are able to get all kinds of women will realize that a woman you can spend saturdays with will be more helpful and enjoyable then a woman he can spend a friday night with. Nature = animal world and yes we do carry that trait we also have a frontal lobe that in time once mature we can use to make the best long tern choices. I agree with you on the importance of family and support which i mean emotional more then money wise. I guess Uk are different and maybe colder maybe thats why UK men have been rated as the worst lovers that lack emotional care. I didnt say it but it is from a survey that has been going on for over 7 years. If a woman has no education or cannot get a real job that will pay her as a human should be paid then her only way out is finding a meal ticket which will really care for her more then easy sex. if a man cant find quality women due to his lack of inner worth or his harsh demands and he has to find willing partners i hope they can one day learn and find a real partner. We all end up with a partner that has a lot of room to grow because we too have a lot to learn.

You have completely bought the feminist/PC line.

Well done. Enjoy your 'relationship' as the doormat.

Thank goodness there are many men in the world that actually admire intelligent articulate educated women! (and I personally admire this quality in men). For me a good relationship is mutually matched, which for me means many things, but in basic terms i guess would be someone on a similar wavelength). But of course there are many kinds of relationships that work, so whatever makes both parties happy, is all that really matters. Personally though im thankful that im not expected to chain myself to a kitchen sink, pop out babies, and keep smiling even if a man is treating me like rubbish. How a woman wanting a life the way she wants to enjoy it, and sharing that life with someone else, equals a man being a doormat...i do not know. Unless you have some pretty archaic ideas of what a womans role in a relationship is...

But anyway..i digress.. good luck to all in their relationships whatever the choices. Wish all success.

[transam]

Call me a kill Joy here but has anyone had a successful relationship with a farang woman ?. Thought l did for 25 Years and then was hung drawn and quartered, well, nearly.

[ludditeman]

Thank goodness there are many men in the world that actually admire intelligent articulate educated women! (and I personally admire this quality in men).

I am one of those men and admire intelligent articulate and educated women, such women are rare, I have managed to meet two such women in my life where we did have sex, but we all wanted to be the one in control, so it didn't work out with either.

I have now concluded that such women are great as friends, but not any good for a sexual relationship.

Call me a kill Joy here but has anyone had a successful relationship with a farang woman ?. Thought l did for 25 Years and then was hung drawn and quartered, well, nearly.

Me too, lasted 27 years, I should have died earlier (after 25 years of marriage), then I could have called it successful and avoided being hung, drawn and quartered. I have come to conclude very few relationships survive the menopause with any great degree of success.

Edited November 28, 2011 by ludditeman

[Moonrakers]

I've noticed that a lot of break-ups in relationships are self-perpetuating.

Somebody that thinks their partner is only in it for the money treats their partner as such, and in turn their partner ends up seeing the money as a priority.

Somebody that thinks their partner will be unfaithful will treat their partner as such, and ultimately the lack of trust leads to their partner becoming unfaithful.

And so on...........

It really is as simple as treating the other person as just that, another person. Trying to over analyze things and treat your partner almost as they they are another species that needs to be understood is a sure way to <deleted> it all up.

[Moonrakers]

I am one of those men and admire intelligent articulate and educated women, such women are rare,

I think that comment says rather a lot about yourself really.

[ludditeman]

I am one of those men and admire intelligent articulate and educated women, such women are rare,

I think that comment says rather a lot about yourself really.

Yes, it says I am extremely intelligent articulate and educated, so my standards are rather higher than a guy with a tattoo, beer belly and a TEFL.

[Moonrakers]

I am one of those men and admire intelligent articulate and educated women, such women are rare,

I think that comment says rather a lot about yourself really.

Yes, it says I am extremely intelligent articulate and educated, so my standards are rather higher than a guy with a tattoo, beer belly and a TEFL.

You claim to have high standards, yet claim that intelligent women are no good for sexual relationships.

Do you not find that a contradiction?

[Kananga]

Hi-so, Lo-so? My wife is neither.

Same here. But 98%+ of Thai women are neither "hi-so" or "lo-so" - it's just a thaivisa obsession with these two stereotypes because a lot of people here don't exist outside of the farang ghettos in Thailand.

Thats an excellent point. Many thaivisa regulars are regulars because they dont have a life outside of the internet (nothing else to do all day) and have absolutely no idea how the many levels of any society work, let alone Thai society. How could anyone scraping an existence together on 10k a month have the faintest idea what infintely more successful people are like, what they do let alone be aware of the fact that they are not all evil. Far easier to just call them hi-so and materialistic as it makes them feel slightly better about their own miserable skint existence.

[thaibeachlovers]

5) You must know a better class of western person, all my lot had the surviving olds either living alone or dumped in OAP homes.

Sadly true.

Whatever the story of sick buffalos, people over here usually are more responsible for their elderly relatives than in the west.

I'm glad you included "usually" in that. One news item on the Bkk floods featured a couple that were over 70 and trying to survive in a flooded house. I thought it strange that their children hadn't rescued them.

Of course they may not have had children or family, but it was very sad.

[Kananga]

5) You must know a better class of western person, all my lot had the surviving olds either living alone or dumped in OAP homes.

Sadly true.

Whatever the story of sick buffalos, people over here usually are more responsible for their elderly relatives than in the west.

I'm glad you included "usually" in that. One news item on the Bkk floods featured a couple that were over 70 and trying to survive in a flooded house. I thought it strange that their children hadn't rescued them.

Of course they may not have had children or family, but it was very sad.

Equally sad that people who claimed to want to volunteer didn't do anything to help them either. Suppose you probably need a work permit or an aircraft carrier to actually help people in distress these days! Hope they ended up ok, do you know what happened to them?

[transam]

Thank goodness there are many men in the world that actually admire intelligent articulate educated women! (and I personally admire this quality in men).

I am one of those men and admire intelligent articulate and educated women, such women are rare, I have managed to meet two such women in my life where we did have sex, but we all wanted to be the one in control, so it didn't work out with either.

I have now concluded that such women are great as friends, but not any good for a sexual relationship.

Call me a kill Joy here but has anyone had a successful relationship with a farang woman ?. Thought l did for 25 Years and then was hung drawn and quartered, well, nearly.

Me too, lasted 27 years, I should have died earlier (after 25 years of marriage), then I could have called it successful and avoided being hung, drawn and quartered. I have come to conclude very few relationships survive the menopause with any great degree of success.

But, my mums sister, now 92, has been married 64 years , l tell them l am jealous of a great love between two folk that lasted the test of time.

[theblether]

Your being overly harsh on the West, the West is struggling under some unexpected consequences of the rapid advance of capitalism. One consequence is the reduction in birth rate / longevity. Simply put many people now moving into their dotage had small families, or no family at all.

Because in the west, you're told you don't need a family, the government will take care of you. Now look - governments can't afford to keep people into their old age, and are telling people to keep working until they drop. State pensions are a poor substitute to an extended family and it's obvious now that an elderly person needs savings / private pension to survive on their own. The whole economic model in the west runs counter to family life because the idea of extended families is anathema to a growing economy - we all need to do our bit to consume for the economy first and foremost (western mentality).

Thailand and China will not face these problems because they don't have welfare; the Thai and Chinese governments know that the family is the best support for elderly people, not the government which can't physically look after old people other than dole out some meagre payment each month. In the west, the family support networks have been fractured for a lot of people - there simply is no family support anymore.

Feminism is to blame for most of the breakup in traditional family life.

Feminists are just "useful idiots" to the government's own drive to atomise the family for economic expedience. The ultimate economy is where we all live alone and need one of everything in our homes - it's the optimal economy western governments work toward. Feminism has certainly sped up this process.

What you mean is women had the cheek to demand the right to vote?

Well, feminism is a BIT more than simply women being able to vote. It's become an industry over the last 20 years, and there's hundreds of issues they are campaigning for - many of which aren't seeking to simply gain parity with men, but gaining advantage over men under the disguise of "equality". To sum up feminism as "women being able to vote" is to simplify it way too much.

I completely disagree with your comments about the lack of family support. I have no doubt that there are many families that have fractured for various reasons, including divorce. However you are failing to note one simple factor at play here.

The richer the Asian countries such as Thailand and China become, the more like the West they will become like.

You can be guaranteed that the more money that flows through the economies, the more choice it will give individuals as to how they live their lives. Many will choose to live their lives away from their nuclear families and family responsibilities. 40 years ago or so in the West people didn't have anything like the disposable income they have now, and most couples had to live with parents or grandparents after marriage till they either saved for a deposit on their own home, or were allocated social housing. The boom of credit then meant that people could access housing faster, and it became the norm to marry and to move into your new house on day one.

The more housing that came available, the more that people started to exercise their choice to live independently, including those people that are now pensioners. The more independently you live then the slacker the family bonds become, and family ties can break altogether in these circumstances. However!! This is still exceptional in the West, the majority of people still have very close relationships with their parents and grandparents, and still make time for them in their lives. Your painting an apocalyptic picture of social relationships in the West which just isn't true. Everyone of my friends whose parents or grandparents are still alive have a close relationship with them. That doesn't mean that they are in each others houses every day but it does mean that they interact on a regular basis.

Two of my friends have parents in care, both with Parkinsons disease, one other is most likely having to put his mother into care due to Hodgkinsons Disease. There were compelling truths to all my friends decisions presently and in the past as to why these decisions were made......they were made at the last possible moment before the person became a danger to themselves, and they were made with the best interests of the parent in mind.

I will lay you short odds that there will be a building boom in sheltered housing complexes in Thailand within 20 years, and it is happening already in China. Sunset years care is not always about the Wicked Daughter-In-Law you know. If you polled Thaivisa members of any age, and in particular the people approaching their sunset years, you will find that almost to a man ( or lady ) they will value their independence above everything, and the idea of being dependent on others if not horrifies them, then at least concerns them.

There is a brutal truth that undermines your rose tinted view of family life in Thailand. Family life has been maintained by poverty, and just like every other agrarian economy in the world, ( as Thailand used to be in every part of the country ), having children was regarded as your pension scheme. Now that you can get an actual financial pension scheme in place......the need for big families subsides and the population shrinks......just like the indigenous population of just about every Western economy in the world.

Edited November 28, 2011 by theblether

[trevorg]

+1

[PattaniMan]

Family life has been maintained by poverty, and just like every other agrarian economy in the world, ( as Thailand used to be in every part of the country ), having children was regarded as your pension scheme. Now that you can get an actual financial pension scheme in place......the need for big families subsides and the population shrinks......just like the indigenous population of just about every Western economy in the world.

I think you'll find there is more to the traditional concept of extended families than your interesting but ultimately somewhat shallow view of things.

Ever heard of religion? Catholicism hold families together. As does Islam. As does Buddhism.

Capitalism and feminism have paved the way to independence, but thus far they have done little to erode the system of familial Catholic, Islamic and Buddhist values which have been in place for centuries.

The Anglo-Saxon world (ie, Protestants) is of course different.

Edited November 28, 2011 by PattaniMan

[trevorg]

Family life has been maintained by poverty, and just like every other agrarian economy in the world, ( as Thailand used to be in every part of the country ), having children was regarded as your pension scheme. Now that you can get an actual financial pension scheme in place......the need for big families subsides and the population shrinks......just like the indigenous population of just about every Western economy in the world.

I think you'll find there is more to the traditional concept of extended families than your interesting but ultimately somewhat shallow view of things.

Ever heard of religion? Catholicism hold families together. As does Islam. As does Buddhism.

Capitalism and feminism have paved the way to independence, but thus far they have done little to erode the system of familial Catholic, Islamic and Buddhist values which have been in place for centuries.

The Anglo-Saxon world (ie, Protestants) is of course different.

Religion belongs in the past. You don't need to be religious to be good or successful in a relationship or have a family or anything! I don't have a problem with people who chose to worship a God and hate a Devil, whatever they want to call them and from what part of the world or in what language. These concepts are created by the human race and used to control people. Religion has nothing to do with loving and supporting your family! I'd go further, but there's no point!

[PattaniMan]

Family life has been maintained by poverty, and just like every other agrarian economy in the world, ( as Thailand used to be in every part of the country ), having children was regarded as your pension scheme. Now that you can get an actual financial pension scheme in place......the need for big families subsides and the population shrinks......just like the indigenous population of just about every Western economy in the world.

I think you'll find there is more to the traditional concept of extended families than your interesting but ultimately somewhat shallow view of things.

Ever heard of religion? Catholicism hold families together. As does Islam. As does Buddhism.

Capitalism and feminism have paved the way to independence, but thus far they have done little to erode the system of familial Catholic, Islamic and Buddhist values which have been in place for centuries.

The Anglo-Saxon world (ie, Protestants) is of course different.

Religion belongs in the past. You don't need to be religious to be good or successful in a relationship or have a family or anything! I don't have a problem with people who chose to worship a God and hate a Devil, whatever they want to call them and from what part of the world or in what language. These concepts are created by the human race and used to control people. Religion has nothing to do with loving and supporting your family! I'd go further, but there's no point!

Re-read the post I was replying to.

[trevorg]

Re-read the post I was replying to.

As requested, I have re-read the post, that I had already read and supported with a +1 and a Wai. Nowhere in the whole post - or the bit that you quoted, was religion mentioned, poverty and agrarianism were, culture has been mentioned throughout the thread. These terms are probably replaced by multiple terms Socio-economic...

You are implying that if you have 'religion' - of some sorts (except protestant) it means that you are more likely to have a successful relationship and look after your family!

I find the people who have the most successful relationships and care about their family and friends do so of their own free-will, they don't need to spend time or money at a set time at a set huge building of worship every week! If their friends or family need help, then they help, when they can, to the best of their abilities! They also fund-raise and donate to charities - direct and not through a religion!

[theblether]

Family life has been maintained by poverty, and just like every other agrarian economy in the world, ( as Thailand used to be in every part of the country ), having children was regarded as your pension scheme. Now that you can get an actual financial pension scheme in place......the need for big families subsides and the population shrinks......just like the indigenous population of just about every Western economy in the world.

I think you'll find there is more to the traditional concept of extended families than your interesting but ultimately somewhat shallow view of things.

Ever heard of religion? Catholicism hold families together. As does Islam. As does Buddhism.

Capitalism and feminism have paved the way to independence, but thus far they have done little to erode the system of familial Catholic, Islamic and Buddhist values which have been in place for centuries.

The Anglo-Saxon world (ie, Protestants) is of course different.

The world is becoming more secular, and it will become even more secular in the next decades. So if your relying upon religion being the glue then you better buy some sticky tape too, you'll need it. Incidentally I can back up every one of the issues I raised in my post. The more educated the world becomes, the richer former Thirld World countries become, the more secular they will become.

There is virtually no difference between the experience of the West and the rest of the World, just about every contention you can make about Thailand can be found to have also been the case in the last two hundred years maximum in the UK and Europe. The West is ahead of the development curve, as the rest of the World follows they will come up against exactly the same issues that the West is facing now.

The only way it will not happen is if urbanization and development are banned in Thailand.

[KeyserSoze01]

I am Thai lady , marry and living in UK for 7 years. I graduate from Chula and have a good family. I marry with a good man that is also family friend.

Good for you. What does your hi-so standing in Thailand provide to you in the UK?

In conclusion the reason many foreign man have problem is because they unable to attract/communicate with high class Thai lady because they are the inferior to Thai hi-so financially and intellectually.

What a load of horse <deleted>. More of the "my <deleted> doesn't stink" variety of Thai snobbishness.