Fasting

[boppia]

I curious as to what other members think of fasting. Is it a healthy practice? Is it a healthy way to lose weight? Does it have any other benefits? I have a friedn who does it every so often. Amazingly he is able to avoid food for two weeks. He drinks about 4 liters of water a day during that time period. He loses weight and says fasting is also good for cleaning waste-buildup out of your body. Any thoughts on this? Does anyone know of a society which uses it as a part of normal living(besides places like Sudan!) Thanks for any replies.

[Davey]

Of course it is not a healthy way of losing weight! A heathly way to lose weight is to eat right and exercise reguarly. I couldn't imagine anyone wanting to fast other than for religious purposes, and if they did, they need help !!

[Explorer]

Here is long read up on fasting.

Explorer

[Fast Eddie]

I wouldn't do it just as a means of losing weight, but as a means of detoxification many people seem to think it has it's merits. Some recommend just drinking juices but i wouldn't fancy eating nothing at all, i'm dubious as to how healthy that is. I think there might be a case for short term restrictions in your diet as a means of detoxification, however.

Edited November 21, 2005 by Fast Eddie

[lomatopo]

Here is long read up on fasting.

Explorer 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmmm, not a lot to back up the author's claims, not one single external independent reference?

I scanned the linked article, and this jumped out at me:

Fasting Examples

J.R. did a 67-day fast on juices at age 20 when he joined a fasting and health-food-oriented community in 1975. He describes feeling great and very light. In fact, he lost a lot of weight. His only problems were skin sores that would not heal.

I mean it almost sounds like a Monty Python skit..."Oh yes, I feel marvelous. Oh those, just open, festering sores that won't heal. No problem." (Shades of "only a flesh wound")

This whole concept of having to cleanse one's body by fasting seems like it could be avoided by not loading it up with crap that needs to be subsequently cleansed?

Edited November 21, 2005 by lomatopo

[patrickq]

http://www.fredericpatenaude.com/myfast.html

... add to your input on fasting!

[raro]

....last time I had a pork knuckle I ate only half the dumpling. Felt much better after that. Does that qualify?

[fxm88]

Amazingly he is able to avoid food for two weeks.

Yes, there is no hunger after the first few days -- all the glucose in your blood is gone and your body has adapted to burning your fat and, to a lesser extent, protein (i.e. muscle). If you find that you must eat something avoid carbohydrates (e.g. sugar, bread, crackers, fruits and juices, most vegetables) -- they'll only make you hungry. Eat only protein and fat (e.g. bacon, eggs, meat of any kind). Keep that up and you're on the Atkins Diet.

Edited November 21, 2005 by fxm88

[Fast Eddie]

Having read Explorers link and other sources on the internet, and being the impulsive and curious character that i am, i have decided as of this evening to embark on a five day juice fast to detoxify my abused body. Having never been without solids for anything remotely like that duration of time i am interested to see how i'll feel.

[Davey]

Having read Explorers link and other sources on the internet, and being the impulsive and curious character that i am, i have decided as of this evening to embark on a five day juice fast to detoxify my abused body. Having never been without solids for anything remotely like that duration of time i am interested to see how i'll feel.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hungry and p!ssed off. Got anything else in mind to waste 5 days on? In my opinion fasting will cause more problems than it will solve. You need fuel to function, it's pretty much the same as a car, if you run out of fuel, you stop, basically.

As fxm88 rightly points out, you will use up your carbohydrate stores first (normal in some respects) then fats (health will be deteriorating, although can be norm when exercise is involved, but just to keep you going is not good) and then proteins (well, you might as well be chewing an arm off) I don't know about time-scales, but an educated guest would suggest you would be relying on your protein for fuel within 2 days. You are already using your carbo stores whilst you read this message. Fasting certainly is not a good idea, for any amount of time

[chownah]

Mahatma Ghandi fasted alot. His health was good, I think.

[lomatopo]

Mahatma Ghandi fasted alot.  His health was good, I think.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am pretty sure he was fasting for reasons not related to health, or cleansing?

He did live a long life, 79 years, and would have obviously lived longer had he not been shot three times in the chest by an assassin.

[Fast Eddie]

Having read Explorers link and other sources on the internet, and being the impulsive and curious character that i am, i have decided as of this evening to embark on a five day juice fast to detoxify my abused body. Having never been without solids for anything remotely like that duration of time i am interested to see how i'll feel.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hungry and p!ssed off. Got anything else in mind to waste 5 days on? In my opinion fasting will cause more problems than it will solve. You need fuel to function, it's pretty much the same as a car, if you run out of fuel, you stop, basically.

As fxm88 rightly points out, you will use up your carbohydrate stores first (normal in some respects) then fats (health will be deteriorating, although can be norm when exercise is involved, but just to keep you going is not good) and then proteins (well, you might as well be chewing an arm off) I don't know about time-scales, but an educated guest would suggest you would be relying on your protein for fuel within 2 days. You are already using your carbo stores whilst you read this message. Fasting certainly is not a good idea, for any amount of time

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm drinking fruit juices so i am still consuming some carbohydrates, a more hardcore fast would have been to just drink water but i didn't fancy that. Five days is not a long time and i am quite a healthy person really, so my health is at no risk. There seems to be quite a number of doctors on the internet advocating short term fasting, so i guess i will see how much of a good idea it feels like by the weekend. So far i'm approaching twenty four hours without food and i feel quite good, the fruit juice is clearly relieving the feelings of hunger at this stage.

[Tywais]

You can check out Koh Samui resort here for fasting info:

http://www.gosurvival.com/colonic_irrigation.htm

And for you coffee lovers who want a way to 'detoxify' then try a coffee enema

[Fast Eddie]

You can check out Koh Samui resort here for fasting info:

http://www.gosurvival.com/colonic_irrigation.htm

And for you coffee lovers who want a way to 'detoxify' then try a coffee enema

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was reading about coffee enemas yesterday and i think i'm going to give it a try.

[chownah]

Mahatma Ghandi fasted alot.  His health was good, I think.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am pretty sure he was fasting for reasons not related to health, or cleansing?

He did live a long life, 79 years, and would have obviously lived longer had he not been shot three times in the chest by an assassin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

People were very concerned that fasting is unhealthy and I was mostly bringing up M Gahndi to show that it must not be too unhealthy. I do believe, however, that he viewed some amount of fasting as healthy...but not sure.

[Davey]

Having read Explorers link and other sources on the internet, and being the impulsive and curious character that i am, i have decided as of this evening to embark on a five day juice fast to detoxify my abused body. Having never been without solids for anything remotely like that duration of time i am interested to see how i'll feel.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hungry and p!ssed off. Got anything else in mind to waste 5 days on? In my opinion fasting will cause more problems than it will solve. You need fuel to function, it's pretty much the same as a car, if you run out of fuel, you stop, basically.

As fxm88 rightly points out, you will use up your carbohydrate stores first (normal in some respects) then fats (health will be deteriorating, although can be norm when exercise is involved, but just to keep you going is not good) and then proteins (well, you might as well be chewing an arm off) I don't know about time-scales, but an educated guest would suggest you would be relying on your protein for fuel within 2 days. You are already using your carbo stores whilst you read this message. Fasting certainly is not a good idea, for any amount of time

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm drinking fruit juices so i am still consuming some carbohydrates, a more hardcore fast would have been to just drink water but i didn't fancy that. Five days is not a long time and i am quite a healthy person really, so my health is at no risk. There seems to be quite a number of doctors on the internet advocating short term fasting, so i guess i will see how much of a good idea it feels like by the weekend. So far i'm approaching twenty four hours without food and i feel quite good, the fruit juice is clearly relieving the feelings of hunger at this stage.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, sooner you than me mate, but good luck to you nonetheless. I would be interested to know how you would rate the idea of fasting, so any feedback once you've completed your fast would be appreciated, cheers !!

[chuchok]

Skipping meals a slimming dud

23.11.05

By Martin Johnston

Many women mistakenly believe that skipping meals is a good way to lose weight, an international study has found.

The finding from the study of about 600 young women and mothers of school-aged children in New Zealand and overseas suggests the message about the importance of regular meals, especially breakfast, is not getting through, at least to these groups.

"It's very scary," Obesity Action Coalition executive director Celia Murphy said last night.

"That's the very way not to try to lose weight. It absolutely doesn't work."

Research company ACNielsen is conducting a study on attitudes to food and obesity in more than 20 countries and has presented findings to food manufacturers and public health groups, including Obesity Action.

The World Health Organisation declared obesity an epidemic in 2000.

In New Zealand, more than half of adults and a third of children are overweight or obese and the rates are rising. In the late 1990s, 17 per cent of adults were obese, a figure predicted to rise to 29 per cent by 2011.

Obesity is linked to the development of type 2 diabetes, which can put people at risk of heart disease, blindness and limb amputation.

Treating diabetes and its complications costs an estimated $340 million a year and is predicted to rise to $1 billion by 2021.

The Government is deeply concerned about obesity and is trying to encourage people to eat more healthily and be more physically active.

ACNielsen qualitative research director Suzie Dale said the study's main significance was that it showed up the "slightly faulty rules" many people applied to food and obesity.

An interim report on the study says the research arose out of the links between obesity and the rising trend of people buying food at fast-food outlets, restaurants and convenience stores.

"There is a positive correlation between an increase in buying out of home and obesity, although it does not explain the total rise.

"Research shows that the obesity epidemic could be attributed to as little as an additional 150 calories a day in either incoming or outgoing energy. This is a very small amount of food - the equivalent of ... a can of soft drink."

The report says the research participants showed some resistance to the assumption that being overweight was bad.

"What's wrong with people being overweight?" a New Zealand participant asked. "I know a woman that's huge, but she could run circles around me. She could run circles around most athletes.

"What's the difference?"

Ms Murphy questioned the value of the research for New Zealand because it concentrated only on women at two life stages and involved only about 20 New Zealanders.

"It's not at all surprising they found this group of women were more interested in what they look like than their health."

She said the presentation reported the women as saying obesity was about personal responsibility.

"I don't know whether they were asked whether they were influenced by the marketing of food."

Many unhealthy foods were marketed as normal things to eat daily.

"They're not," said Ms Murphy.

The report says fast-food consumption is vulnerable to people's concerns about obesity.

"Some will give them up entirely as they believe this to be an easy-to-implement yet highly effective strategy. Others will reduce frequency of visits or consumption over time."

[awarrumbungle]

I know 1 of the reasons Ghandi was so keen on fasting and watching what he ate was because of the discipline it required. He believed discipline of all types makes you a stronger person.

As for diets... take it with a table spoon of salt. Atkins, weight watchers, .... people in the arctic eat extremely fatty foods and a lot of people in India are vergetarians. It would be hard to say who is healthier. It all comes down to EXERCISE and eating natural organic foods not loaded with chemicals that would fill your body up with toxins in the first place. If you compared an athlete with a couch potato - now there you will find a health and weight differece.

[chownah]

Here's another thread about fasting:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=51518

[MistaDorn]

Due Ramadan, I am fasting for a whole month no drink no eat when the sun is rises. but i ate a lot when the sun is sets. here where i work, doctor said it is very good.

[boppia]

Thanks for the replies.

[Tolley]

You should be very careful embarking on a fast.......there could be very negative effects depending on the current state of your health and toxicity.

It would be probably better to eat a salad type diet without any meat or dairy or grains as a means of cleanising the system.....no food means that you cannot go anywhere or do anything much really as you will not have the strength or energy for much

As for Ramadan fast....most muslims that i know fast til night time and then gourge themselves at the Iftar banquets thereby undoing any good they might have done earlier in the day

[Fast Eddie]

I just completed a five day fast, where i ate nothing, and drank fruit juice and water. I noticed no great difference in my energy levels or mental functions, and was able to go about my daily routine as normal. It was slightly different to how i'd imagined it to be, as you would think that without eating you would feel particularly weak, but in practice this was not the case. Maybe if i'd just drank water and cut out the apple juice it would have been somewhat more debilitating.

The first day or two were the hardest and i felt hunger occasionally, but this was easily assuaged by drinking the fruit juice, and it was never uncomfortable. By the third day i was no longer feeling the need to eat, although my mind continued to fantasise about a variety of culinary delights.

I feel more relaxed and my mind feels more clear than it did five days ago, but physically it is hard to tell to what extent it has benefitted me.

[Davey]

I just completed a five day fast, where i ate nothing, and drank fruit juice and water. I noticed no great difference in my energy levels or mental functions, and was able to go about my daily routine as normal. It was slightly different to how i'd imagined it to be, as you would think that without eating you would feel particularly weak, but in practice this was not the case. Maybe if i'd just drank water and cut out the apple juice it would have been somewhat more debilitating.

The first day or two were the hardest and i felt hunger occasionally, but this was easily assuaged by drinking the fruit juice, and it was never uncomfortable. By the third day i was no longer feeling the need to eat, although my mind continued to fantasise about a variety of culinary delights.

I feel more relaxed and my mind feels more clear than it did five days ago, but physically it is hard to tell to what extent it has benefitted me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First of all, congratulations. I can imagine it would require a lot of will and determination to not eat for 5 days. However, without the fruit juices I think you would have noticed a dramatic difference.

NUTRITIONAL INFORMATION PER ONE SERVING

Total Fat 0.245g (% represent RDA - recommended daily allowance)

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Saturated Fat 0.0497g

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Polyunsaturated Fat 0.0705g

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Monounsaturated Fat 0.0165g

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Cholesterol 0mg 0%

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Sodium 6.75mg 0%

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Potassium 328.19mg 9%

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Total Carbohydrate 32.54g 11%

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Dietary Fiber 0.3g 1%

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Protein 0.847g 2%

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alcohol 0g

Vitamin A 1 % Vitamin C 100 %

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Calcium 2 % Iron 4 %

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Vitamin D 0 % Vitamin E 0 %

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thiamin 4 % Riboflavin 3 %

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Niacin 3 % Folate 3 %

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Vitamin B-6 7 % Vitamin B-12 0 %

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Phosphorus 2 % Magnesium 5 %

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Zinc 1 % Copper 4 %

In one serving you are ingesting 11% of your RDA in carbohydrates. The utilisation of CHO into a useable energy form (ATP) is quite a quick process, however, the energy is not long term, therefore you probably experienced 'bursts' in energy, or at times felt slightly fatigued or lathargic.

If you done this fast with just water your dietary intake would be

7.11mg Sodium 0%

Magnesium 1%

Copper 1%

There is nothing in water which would supplement energy, therefore carrying out day to day tasks would be significantly more difficult.

Please don't restart your fasting with only water, as it will for sure only do more harm than good, although I'm sure you will be incredibly curious to see whether there is a significant difference or not.

Again, well done on completing your fasting (I'm taking your word for it)

Edited November 27, 2005 by Davey

[Fast Eddie]

Yeah, i think it would have been very tough, unpleasant even, without the fruit juice. I wouldn't fancy just drinking water alone.

Once i started eating again yesterday i became absolutely ravenous as my stomach woke up. Food has never tasted so good in all my life. It was worth it just for that sensation alone.

[Sheryl]

I curious as to what other members think of fasting. Is it a healthy practice? Is it a healthy way to lose weight? Does it have any other benefits? I have a friedn who does it every so often. Amazingly he is able to avoid food for two weeks. He drinks about 4 liters of water a day during that time period. He loses weight and says fasting is also good for cleaning waste-buildup out of your body. Any thoughts on this? Does anyone know of a society which uses it as a part of normal living(besides places like Sudan!) Thanks for any replies.

It has long been a health practice in India, part of aruvedic medicine (?spelling) on the theory that periodically resting your digestive tract and allowing it to completely empty out removes toxins and so forth. I was always sceptical of this until I just recently did a 7 day fast in Koh Samui. I did it only for weight loss (it worked, of course...and coming off the fast gradually has provided a nice chance to modify my long term eating habits). However I was surprised to find a lot of other benefit besides the weight loss, in myself and everyone else there doing it. It occurred to me that our bodies are not designed for nonstop food availability -- that's why we store fat in the first place -- and for most of human history, as for animals in the wild, periods of no food occur from time to time. So asides obesity, it could be that the recent (in evolutionary terms) change to nonstop daily food creates other problems as well and that the Indians have been right....I am now planning to do this annually.

I should add though that this was a supervised fast in a setting where they provide a variety of herbs, nutritional supplements (especially important - vitamins, minerals and amino acids) and watered down fruit juice is allowed. Clear guidance on how often to take it, etc are given. I wouldn't suggest this as a do-it-yourself project.

There are several places in Samui doing this. I went to Health Oasis, which I highly recommend. Programs of anywhere from 4 to 21 days.

[tracker]

I am waiting for a book from dr. William Howard Hay, called Health via Food and was written in 1929. The OJ-fast (14 days) is explained in there and comes highly recommended by someone giving health-advice on another forum. Another doctor (forgot the name) took the OJ-fast a little further and extended it from 14 days to 3 weeks and even one of 40 days. He cured 63000 people. Any disease was curable. It states that after 21 days all internal organs are renewed since the OJ stimulated new cell growth. Think about that: gone bad heart and clogged vains. in 40 days complete new skin was achieved with scar-tissue even gone! wonders me what about restored good vision and a lot more... Important notice: use organic grown oranges...

[lomatopo]

However I was surprised to find a lot of other benefit besides the weight loss, in myself and everyone else there doing it.

Well, don't keep us in suspense...

- what are all the other benefits you were surprised to find?

- how much weight did you lose?

I'm guessing you paid for this experience? Usually when people pay for something of their own choosing there is an inherent positive placebo effect. I would imagine most people choose to fast because they think it will be good for them? And if you think something will be good for you you'll probably be happy with the results?

He cured 63000 people.

Wow, that's a lot of people to cure with just orange juice and time. What was wrong with them? How many people did he treat? Or did he treat 63,000 people and achieved a 100% success rate?

[Sheryl]

However I was surprised to find a lot of other benefit besides the weight loss, in myself and everyone else there doing it.

Well, don't keep us in suspense...

- what are all the other benefits you were surprised to find?

- how much weight did you lose?

I'm guessing you paid for this experience? Usually when people pay for something of their own choosing there is an inherent positive placebo effect. I would imagine most people choose to fast because they think it will be good for them? And if you think something will be good for you you'll probably be happy with the results?

I lost 4 kg total on same scale, 1 kg came back on right away and was probably just the absence of intestinal contents. The other 3 kg were for real and have stayed off, not bad for 7 days.

Other benefits: glowing skin (mine & others), general sense of well being, energy, clarity of mind. I wasn't expecting or even hoping for any of that, only weight loss. Of course, they dosed us up with tons of wierd herbal substances plus we had herbal steam baths, massage and yoga daily so who knows what was doing what ....I just know what the total effect was. Oh, and a problem with gastric reflux which had been getting worse for over a year cleared up, high blood pressure greatly improved (of course, due to weight loss and lack of sodium) and I was able to reduce antidepressent dosage by half. These last 3 gains thus far have lasted.

Another benefit was that it gave me a chance to re-learn what actual physical hunger and fullness feel like...like a lot of people nowadays I had long ago lost that sense in favor of psychological cravings and feelings associated with food. There's a difference. It was probably easier to observe and understand this having already practiced vipassana meditation for many years. But even with that, it needed the experience of abstaining for a while to really get a handle on it. I have found that to be true of any kind of craving/dependency...you don't really have an objective sense of what's going on until you've totally abstained for a while, then it is seen in a new light. I was surprised to learn how little an amount of food it really takes to assuage true hunger (as opposed to hunger-associated food cravings, which can require a lot of food to alleviate).

And yes, you pay for it. A fraction of what similar programs cost in the West, but still not peanuts. 7 days ran me about 30,000 baht inclusive of beachfront accomodatrion, daily massage, steam, herbs, colonics etc (and No food!). Anyhow, as I said, I was quite surprised. I'm a (western) health professional with 2 advanced degrees in the health sciences and always thought this stuff was pure new age B*** S***.

I do not, however, put the least credence in claims to cure "all diseases" via orange juice or any other food....that's over the top and then some. Natural foods, yoga, weight loss, and -- I'm inclined to now believe -- carefully supervised fasting have positive health effects and may help releive certain mild health problems that are associated with poor dietary habits/obesity and/or stress, but they aren't going to cure serious illnesses.

I had a friend with metastatic cancer who went the fasting/detox route and also went to India for aruyvedic treatments. She eventually died of her cancer but she did live about 2 years longer than expected given the extent of the disease, and they were active years.

in short, I wouldn't buy into exagerated claims about this stuff but I wouldn't totally dismiss possibility that they have some benefit. Benefit, not miracles.