Bangkok Bank Will Not Payback Fraudulent Pos Transactions W/Stolen Atm Card

[ianguygil]

Banking in Thailand is obviously a strong interest or hobby for TallGuyJohninBKK. Others might spend their time reading about the history of Thailand and its culture, or learning the Thai language. Different people have different interests, so who are we to criticize how other people spend their time? I think it's good that we have people like TallGuyJohninBKK who will speak out in support of the ordinary people against the corporations whose main goal is to profit from the people in any way they can get away with.

I highly doubt that Bangkok Bank PR guys like yourself and Daveroc spend time on here for free out of charity or compassion, and am certain that you receive some kind of incentive, whether it be direct payment, or an allocation of time per day as part of your salaried duties to promote Bangkok Bank on this forum and/or elsewhere on the internet. We all know it's all about gaining more market share in the industry. You will spend time on easy things that help to portray Bangkok Bank in a positive light, yet when it comes to something a little too difficult like doing some research on policies, you don't have enough time. OK stick with the easy tasks. We all know what you guys are about.

PR guys??

I am an EVP in IT.

Dave is a consultant who is responsible for expat relations.

Neither of us doubt the right of any poster to add constructive and respectful content, including that of TallGuyJohninBKK/JFCHANDLER

I was on this site before I started to post about the Bank and I do this as an individual. If we ever deal directly with Bank customers we do so from our Bank email IDs. I started to reveal that I work for the Bank a few years ago when our customers, and those of other banks, were having problems with Trojans. I needed to make it clear that this was not just my opinion and that I had some inside info, so I revealed that I work for the Bank. Once I started to post in this way I found this huge demand and huge amount of misunderstanding of how relatively simple banking functions work, such as ATM exchange rates, or how SWIFT payments work between banks. So in addition to providing support to our customers I have ended up providing information on Banking in general, as have people like SWISS1960.

Dave came onto the forum later but has largely taken over due to his expertise in expat issues.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Speaking personally, I'm glad Ian is here, and I know he's assisted any number of ThaiVisa members with banking issues or questions over the years... and many are properly grateful to him...

But, he and I come from totally different perspectives, and clearly disagree on any variety of things. He's a banking company and industry executive. And when it comes to banking, I'm what you'd properly call a consumer advocate. Ian is reflecting by and large the perspective of his employer and their interests as he goes about offering assistance. I'm looking for whatever is the best banking deals that a consumer can find that meet their needs with no loyalty or affiliation with any particular bank.

There's certainly room here for both. Just one example, someone earlier in the thread was asking about the security of debit cards, and one of the BKKB guys responded by talking about the Be1st Smart Card with its embedded chip, and did acknowledge that that card worked in about 80% of BKKB's ATMs...

What they didn't point out in that post -- although I did in response -- is it's also true that that same Be1st Smart Card can't be used to withdraw cash from any other Thai banks' ATMs... and to the best of my recollection, can't be used at most or all U.S. bank ATMs as well.

II'm always genuinely grateful when Ian or anyone else corrects me on factual matters, because my main interest is in seeing that accurate and complete banking info is presented here. And likewise, I hope they don't get too off put when I offer some different perspectives to the ones they are sharing.

[hyperdimension]

ianguygil, sharing information and knowledge is fine and good, but you are on here for perception management purposes and are (most probably) paid for it, so whatever information you provide will have some degree of bias. You would rarely say anything that would definitely repel potential customers or compel existing customers to leave. You are unlikely to reveal the ugly side of Bangkok Bank, yet we know that it does exist, with the original post and subject of this discussion thread being just one example. Your (and/or Daveroc's) attempts at trying to portray Bangkok Bank in a positive light with your PR spin and defending your employer against criticism from TallGuyJohninBKK and others have completely backfired. After reading this thread, I have much less inclination to bank with Bangkok Bank than before. I will soon transfer most of my funds from my Bangkok Bank USD account to my account in HSBC Hong Kong, leaving the minimum 250 USD just in case I ever need to use it again (but I highly doubt it).

So whatever happened to jeffinbangkok? I suspect that a deal was made between him and Bangkok Bank - that he was not compensated in full, but was given some "hush" money.

TallGuyJohninBKK, I have a great amount of respect for the work that you do and have learned a lot from what you have written in this and other threads. You have provided good detailed information and raised many issues that we never would have heard from those who have vested interests like ianguygil and Daveroc. Keep up the excellent work.

[naboo]

Thai banks will always screw the farang....if this had been a Thai customer they would have been falling all over themselves to help...

Nonsense.

[JimGant]

Lemme see:

US credit/debit cards have Federal regulations that greatly restrict the cardholder's liability. And, the cardholder is absolutely innocent, unless proven guilty of gross negligence -- or fraud. But rarely, unless blatantly obvious, are any investigations undertaken. Thus, the merchant (and sometimes the issuing bank) eat the losses in 99% of the cases -- adding over 4% to the cost of goods and services.

Thai credit/debit cards (like many countries) have no such government regulations. So, as TG has documented, the cardholder is held liable, until after reporting his card loss, plus 5 minutes (presumably the time needed to cancel the card). Thus, in this situation, neither the issuing bank, nor the merchant, nor Visa/MC have any liability. The cardholder eats the whole enchilada.

And, it sounds like this is the policy for most Thai banks -- with no apparent wiggle room. Guilty, with no trial.....

......except for Bangkok Bank. Where, as Dave has reported, they do investigate on a case-by-case basis. Now, yes, this is not the US, where you're 'innocent until proven guilty of gross negligence.' Here, it's 'guilty until proven innocent of simple negligence.' Yeah, the bar is much higher -- but it's their country, where apparently merchants trump cardholders. Live with it.

Summary:

Use US plastic if you have it. But,if you need Thai plastic, BKKB seems to be an excellent choice -- because, if you're knocked unconscious for two days, and have your wallet and plastic stolen -- hey, I bet your case comes up non-negligent, and no liability.

Other banks have a clearly stated policy -- as TG discovered -- that says you're liable. Period. In the hospital unconscious? Tough.

Well, ok, maybe such a situation would sway some other banks to eat your liability. However, what we've seen on this thread is that BKKB is the only one with examples of case-by-case investigations. Other banks may very well have no wiggle room with their lost/stolen plastic.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Jim, I think you're giving BKKB a bit too much credit here... with all due respect to the bank.

Whatever Dave of BKK Bank has claimed here about their policy, if you read the report of the OP in this thread and a fair number of other similar reports in TV over time, it would appear that the bank's usual response is to in effect tell the victimized cardholder...no can do, you're responsible.

If the OP's outcome in this case ended up being any different -- and we don't know because the OP suddenly seems to have disappeared and gone quiet after previously being quite vocal and ardent (I wonder why?) -- it's probably because he appears to have raised quite a stink and escalated his fight out of his local branch and to the BKKB folks at HQ.

Indeed, there have been some prior posts here on TV where members reported that's the only way to have any chance of getting fraudulent charges reversed...and that was to deal with the fraud department at the BKK Bank's headquarters office. But that trying to deal with your local BKK Bank branch or branch manager was pretty much a non-starter. The bank has a policy, you say???

I'll be interested to see just what BKK Bank ends up publicly posting as their policy regarding cardholder liability for fraudulent charges. Thai banks have a tendency to "me too" everything...and the other Thai banks' policies for the most part are cookie cutter versions of each other. Whether BKK Bank will post a policy that's any different remains to be seen.

You'll recall, the BKK Bank customer service supervisor with whom I spoke on the phone at some length, after checking with their merchant department, said the bank didn't have any written policy on the issue of cardholder liability for fraudulent charges. But that supervisor was very clear about the bank's practice, and that was, the bank typically won't reimburse customers, and leaves it up to the merchant to do or not.

Dave from BKK Bank of course has maintained the bank does have some kind of policy, even though it's not posted on their website and they've ignored repeated questions here about where any of us can view/read that supposed policy, such as at the bank's HQ, for example. One might think, if the bank actually had such a written policy already, it would have been easy for them to show it by now... Hmm....

I do like your Thai bank "guilty until proven innocent" notion regarding cardholder liability. And equally the U.S. version being "innocent until proven guilty." I think that exactly captures the difference between the two approaches. Here, when you get your wallet and bank cards stolen, it's your fault and you're responsible. In the U.S. when your wallet's stolen, you're pretty much not held responsible.

Lastly, again re your notion that BKK Bank might be any different from the other Thai banks in these matters, I have read other past posts here where other TV members say they on occasion were able to gain some recompense from other Thai banks in such situations... But it was never easy, and usually only after an extended fight and long delay.

As I've mentioned before, I had my wallet and some U.S. bank cards (no Thai bank cards in my wallet that day) pickpocketed on the SkyTrain some time back. And in the roughly one hour time it took me to realize the theft (once I tried to exit BTS) and get home and call my bank, the thief had rung up about $1000 in charges on my VISA debit card.

Because of U.S. laws/consumer protections, I got all of my $1000 back within less than two weeks. The bank asked me to sign an affidavit and provide them a copy of my police report, which I had already obtained. No begging, no pleading, no self-debasement. No being quizzed by bank employees about what time the theft occurred (to use Dave's example) and whether it was in a good part of town or not. And I learned a lesson from that experience, which is to never carry my wallet in my pants pocket on a crowded SkyTrain car.

But equally so -- amid the hassle of canceling and having to have reissued and replaced a variety of things that were in my wallet that day -- I'm very glad I didn't have to fight a Thai bank bureaucracy, get shuffled around, get non-committal answers, and ultimate go hat in hand begging down to BKK Bank HQ in Silom to say (in my best Dickens' accent), "Please sirs.... may I have my farthing back, please."

These days, I only carry and use U.S. credit and POS debit cards in my wallet...for exactly the reasons you described.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Sorry, but now I can't help but imagine my interrogation by the BKK Bank folks, were I ever to lose or have stolen one of their bank cards... Note to readers....this account is purely fictional.

B. So Mr. TallGuy, please tell us what happened with your "allegedly" lost/stolen wallet...

T. But it really was lost or stolen... I'm not sure which.. but really...I've never had any problem like this before. It's terrible!!!

B. Go on, please...

T. Well, I was out the other night...

B. Ohh... very bad... Out at night time... not a smart move...

T. Mmmm... well, and I was traveling on SkyTrain...

B. Ohh Mr. TallGuy, the BTS is a known haven for pickpockets and other unsavories....

T. Yes.. but I was headed over to Soi Cowboy for some drinks...

B. Ahh.. so Mr. TallGuy, you had been consuming alcohol that night.... correct? Exactly how many drinks would that have been?

T. Well, yes, I'd had some drinks, a few, at a go-go....

B. Oh my my.... you mean, a place with scantily women of ill-repute....

T. Well, no, I don't really think of it that way...

B. Surely Mr. TallGuy, you know better than to frequent "those" kinds of establishments...

T. Yes, but I was sitting there, and a lady came and sat down next to me.. and we chatted for awhile...

T. And then when I went to pay my bill, I realized my wallet was gone....And by the time I got home, there were 100,000 baht in charges on my card.

B. I see Mr. Tallguy... A very troubling story you've told...very very unsound.

B. All in all, a textbook case of customer negligence, pure and simple, I'd say...

T. But I just went out for the night to have a few drinks... and....

B. I'm sorry, but we won't be able to reverse the fraudulent charges on your account...

B. But we will be able to charge you 200 baht for issuing you a new bank card... Cash only please. Ohh... you don't have a card, anyway.

B. Thanks for your time and assistance. And next time, please DO be more careful. Next....

[JimGant]

Lastly, again re your notion that BKK Bank might be any different from the other Thai banks in these matters, I have read other past posts here where other TV members say they on occasion were able to gain some recompense from other Thai banks in such situations... But it was never easy, and usually only after an extended fight and long delay.

Ok, probably all Thai banks adhere to the same policy on plastic liability -- same as they adhere to the 150 baht ATM fee. The bank mafia has written, and unwritten, procedures -- maybe steered by some government decrees of some sort. It really doesn't matter, as far as our being able to change things. This is Thailand. They deal with things their way. If it's quirky compared to our way, well, that's the price of being an expat.

So, my contention that BKKB is a cut above other Thai banks in the realm of plastic may not be realistic. But, they're certainly no worse! And having Dave and Ian here is a definite asset to understanding BKKB procedures. And I know you also appreciate that.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

You certainly do have a way with your words, Jim... I'm impressed...

First cardholders who are deemed "guilty until proven innocent" by the Thai banks.

And now "bank mafia."

You're making me jealous.

I don't know if I'd describe the Thai banks' cardholder liability practices as "quirky," to use your term. I'd probably use descriptive terms more like "unfair" and "anti-consumer."

But I do agree having Ian and Dave here is a definite asset.

My life certainly would be so much less rich and fulfilling without them.

[JimGant]

This from the Bangkok Bank website:

Make easy, safe ATM and shopping transactions with the Be1st Smart Visa debit card - Thailand’s first debit card to use the latest EMV chip security technology

I thought the Smart card was a "chip and PIN" -- and as Dave said, there are no PIN-based POS transactions in Thailand -- strictly swipe and sign.

But, the quote from BKKB seems to imply the Smart card is "chip and signature" enabled...? (Which also would require the merchant's cardreader to be modified to read the chip.)

Obviously, this would go a long way to thwart cloned debit cards, which I'm sure is a greater threat to us than having our cards lost or stolen.

So, is the Smart card indeed "chip and signature?" Or is the claim from the BKKB website misleading?

[meatboy]

This from the Bangkok Bank website:

Make easy, safe ATM and shopping transactions with the Be1st Smart Visa debit card - Thailand's first debit card to use the latest EMV chip security technology

I thought the Smart card was a "chip and PIN" -- and as Dave said, there are no PIN-based POS transactions in Thailand -- strictly swipe and sign.

But, the quote from BKKB seems to imply the Smart card is "chip and signature" enabled...? (Which also would require the merchant's cardreader to be modified to read the chip.)

Obviously, this would go a long way to thwart cloned debit cards, which I'm sure is a greater threat to us than having our cards lost or stolen.

So, is the Smart card indeed "chip and signature?" Or is the claim from the BKKB website misleading?

my wf had a be first visa debit card,as she had one in the uk for 20years she believed that this card only allows y to spend what you have in your acc.this is not true with bkkb card y are given a limit on what y can spend eg 50,000bht so if y have only 1,000bht in the acc.do they allow y to go over your balance? she has now got rid of the card after reading this topic.

[KKvampire]

This from the Bangkok Bank website:

Make easy, safe ATM and shopping transactions with the Be1st Smart Visa debit card - Thailand's first debit card to use the latest EMV chip security technology

I thought the Smart card was a "chip and PIN" -- and as Dave said, there are no PIN-based POS transactions in Thailand -- strictly swipe and sign.

But, the quote from BKKB seems to imply the Smart card is "chip and signature" enabled...? (Which also would require the merchant's cardreader to be modified to read the chip.)

Obviously, this would go a long way to thwart cloned debit cards, which I'm sure is a greater threat to us than having our cards lost or stolen.

So, is the Smart card indeed "chip and signature?" Or is the claim from the BKKB website misleading?

my wf had a be first visa debit card,as she had one in the uk for 20years she believed that this card only allows y to spend what you have in your acc.this is not true with bkkb card y are given a limit on what y can spend eg 50,000bht so if y have only 1,000bht in the acc.do they allow y to go over your balance? she has now got rid of the card after reading this topic.

A Bangkok Bank Be 1st Debit card ONLY allows the cardholder to spend what is in the account,.Or some other person who has the card to spend

[meatboy]

This from the Bangkok Bank website:

Make easy, safe ATM and shopping transactions with the Be1st Smart Visa debit card - Thailand's first debit card to use the latest EMV chip security technology

I thought the Smart card was a "chip and PIN" -- and as Dave said, there are no PIN-based POS transactions in Thailand -- strictly swipe and sign.

But, the quote from BKKB seems to imply the Smart card is "chip and signature" enabled...? (Which also would require the merchant's cardreader to be modified to read the chip.)

Obviously, this would go a long way to thwart cloned debit cards, which I'm sure is a greater threat to us than having our cards lost or stolen.

So, is the Smart card indeed "chip and signature?" Or is the claim from the BKKB website misleading?

my wf had a be first visa debit card,as she had one in the uk for 20years she believed that this card only allows y to spend what you have in your acc.this is not true with bkkb card y are given a limit on what y can spend eg 50,000bht so if y have only 1,000bht in the acc.do they allow y to go over your balance? she has now got rid of the card after reading this topic.

A Bangkok Bank Be 1st Debit card ONLY allows the cardholder to spend what is in the account,.Or some other person who has the card to spend

if this is the case why couldnt she use her card the first time she tried[most embarrassing] went back to the bank and was told they have to set a limit 50,000bht per day which was more than her balance.work that one out if y can

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Re the couple of above posts:

1. RE the Be1st Smart card, Jim, are you saying because the BKKB web site language mentions shopping with the smart card -- yet Thailand doesn't really have PIN-based POS transactions with VISA/MC debit cards -- you're wondering if BKKB's smart card also allows simple and very non-secure swipe and sign?

2. Re the spending limit on the Be1st debit cards, my understanding has been that you can only spend up to the actual funds balance in your account, also limited by the daily POS limit on the card, which is set by default to 50,000 baht but can be changed by the customer. But it would be good if one of the BKKB guys would confirm that.

In the U.S., by way of example, for a long time there's been something for debit cards that the banks call "overdraft protection." It sounds good, but it's really bad. What it means is, if a charge or charges are put against your account that exceed your balance, the bank will pay them and then also charge you a usually pretty large handling fee, from what essentially becomes a credit line they add onto your account up to whatever amount the bank decides.

Obviously that has implications in the case of lost or stolen cards. But it also was a huge money maker for the banks via the overdraft fees, often $35 or $40 per overdraft transaction. And some of the banks got into some nasty business practices whereby they'd deliberately change the order in which they debited bills against people's accounts, so that they'd maximize the number of overdraft fees that would be assessed when someone accidentally charged over their account balance.

As in, if there were four transactions that came in against your account -- one large amount and three small ones, they deliberately pay the large one first to exceed your balance, and then pay the three small ones after via overdraft, and charge you 3 X the OD fee for doing so.

The U.S. banks used to put that kind of "overdraft" feature on a lot of accounts automatically. But in the recent financial reform legislation in the U.S., which they vigorously opposed, the banks are now required to have customers specifically opt-in (choose) that kind of overdraft coverage if they want it. Otherwise, the banks now can't add it to people's accounts. Needless to say, I've opted out and/or removed that coverage from all of my accounts. I DON'T WANT any charges paid from my account beyond my available balance, thank you.

That said, for debit cards, I've never heard that that kind of system exists among the banks in Thailand.

[GreenSnapper]

Come on guys, this is Thailand and not a Nanny State, where the government makes a million laws and guarantees for everything.

The deal you signed is easy: we give you an account and card, and you take care of it yourself.

So why not just follow it? Thailand will not be the USA or Europe. And that is good so.

It is like walking on the footpath. Here a motorbike may run over you. So you have to be careful. As long you are aware of it, nothing may happen. But if you think "it is against the law and in my homecountry it never happens", then you may come into serious trouble.

I don't do POS transactions here. I carry my card only when I need cash from ATM. I use only ATMs from inside a bank. I don't have my life savings on my KBank account.

Easy to follow rules. Just do it and stop whining. Nothing will change here and we chose to live here.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The point of the thread isn't to whine...

The point of the thread is to educate everyone, such as the OP, that the rules for bank cards here aren't the same as in some people's home countries...

The Thai bank card may have the same VISA or MC logo... But the rules governing liability for the card aren't the same as in the U.S., and perhaps other countries as well.

If people know that and have that info, then they can make their own choices... such as you did... Good choices, BTW.

I don't do POS transactions here.

I carry my card only when I need cash from ATM.

I use only ATMs from inside a bank.

I don't have my life savings on my KBank account.

For me, I'd only change that slightly:

I don't do POS transactions here with any Thai bank card, or use any Thai bank credit card. Because I don't want to risk losing my entire credit line or the funds in my Thai account in the event my card is lost or stolen.

I do do POS transactions and credit card transactions here with my U.S. cards, because I know I'm protected under U.S. federal law in the event of loss or fraud.

[GreenSnapper]

The point of the thread isn't to whine...

The point of the thread is to educate everyone, such as the OP, that the rules for bank cards here aren't the same as in some people's home countries...

Yes, John, it is correct to warn people here about the facts. But the thread is repeating over and over the same "but in my home country...." arguments.

We have to accept that it is how it is. In general, our legal situation is weak here in Thailand. Even if you are "right" about a certain case, do you really want to fight at Thai courts?

Better take precautions - not only about bank cards, but about everything you do here and which may involve financial losses.

[KKvampire]

Well lets hope daveroc will clarify the position with Be1st debit cards and the possibility or otherwise of funds,over what's in the account being withdrawn from an ATM or a retailer POS machine.

I know that KTB bank debit cards does not allow a withdraw over the balance, or mine certainly doesn't.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

We have to accept that it is how it is. In general, our legal situation is weak here in Thailand. Even if you are "right" about a certain case, do you really want to fight at Thai courts?

Better take precautions - not only about bank cards, but about everything you do here and which may involve financial losses.

I agree in that as regards to card liability, that IS how it is in Thailand (the cardholder is liable for pretty much any fraud prior to reporting), so there's nothing to argue about...or fight in the courts, and never have suggested that.

However, there is an issue about PROPER DISCLOSURE. While quite a few Thai banks make their cardholder liability policies clear by posting them on their websites, there are at least a few -- including Bangkok Bank -- that we've never seen any cardholder liability disclosure from anywhere... not on their website and not anywhere else.

If the Thai banks want to have that kind of cardholder liability policy, absent any Thai law or regulation to the contrary, that's their right. But at least they have an obligation to disclose those policies to their customers... And some banks still haven't done that, even as of today.

[JimGant]

RE the Be1st Smart card, Jim, are you saying because the BKKB web site language mentions shopping with the smart card -- yet Thailand doesn't really have PIN-based POS transactions with VISA/MC debit cards -- you're wondering if BKKB's smart card also allows simple and very non-secure swipe and sign?

I'm sure their Smart card is backward compatible, having a magnetic strip that overrides the chip with a 'swipe and sign' transaction. Meaning, also, the Smart feature does nothing to preclude cloning fraud in POS operations -- yet.

But I was more curious about the Smart card's chip, and whether or not it could in the future (or can now, with maybe selected merchants) be used in the "chip and signature" mode that apparently is used now in Europe. From Chase:

Chase’s cards with chip-and-signature technology will feature both an embedded encrypted chip and traditional magnetic strip to accommodate merchants in the United States, the bank explained. The embedded microchip makes the card extremely difficult to copy, the bank maintained, because the encrypted chip enables the safer processing and storing of data.

Chip technology is the gold standard in Europe and has completely replaced magnetic strips, so cards with chip-and-signature technology offer more streamlined credit card purchases while traveling in Europe.

So, Chase has produced a credit card (and could do the same with a debit card) that works both in the non-chip, magnetic strip environment currently in the US (and Thailand). But, with also a chip, it can work in the chip environment in Europe, where the chip would override the magnetic strip where the card reader is chip enabled.

Anyway, my question for Dave or Ian was: Is the Smart card geared for future (maybe some current?) use with Thai merchants with card readers that are chip enabled? (And, then, presumably, like Chase, Smart cards are currently readable by European merchants?)

BKKB's website add for the Smart card suggests something along the line of above -- at least to my thinking.

[meatboy]

we are not whinging greensnapper,we pay for a service,be fst.debit card 300bht.1fst year.200bht every year thereafter,my love affair with bkkb.is just about coming to an end,last week i had to get my letter of balance for my years extension 55min.it took from the time it was my turn,the member of staff must have took 10or more calls on a number of mobile phones,and just to refresh memories 100bht for the service.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Meatboy, for my retirement extension, I use the consulate income letters, not bank balance letters... But, when I extended a few months back, I wanted to bring along a yearlong printout in my bank passbook from BKK Bank...just as an added precaution... I pretty much never use the passbook, so thus it never really gets routinely updated.

Went to my local branch, went upstairs to the service counter and talked to the accounts desk staff with my Thai wife. Answer, they could only print several back months into my passbook, but not any further back. I said I was sure they could. Staff insisted they couldn't. No offers of other help. No suggestions of any alternative means of getting to the desired end result.

Passed on that offer and went downstairs to head out. But en route, saw an official looking lady standing at one of the counters, went over and politely asked if we could get a paper printout of my account activity for the past year. She responded yes we could, but they'd charge 200 baht for that. Through my wife, I told the lady that we'd had such printouts before and not been charged.. Went back and forth a bit, and then finally she agreed and did the printout for us. And we thanked her very graciously for that.

I could, of course, have pieced together the same kind of bank account activity printout at home via online banking. But that wouldn't have been quite as official looking, for Immigration purposes, as a bank generated printout.

Every time I go to my local BKKB branch, I look forward with such great joy and anticipation to those kinds of customer friendly encounters.

BTW, when I thought about it at home later, indeed we had gotten the yearlong printout added to my passbook in a prior year's Immigration app cycle, and it was done quickly and for free into my passbook.... at Siam Commercial.

[meatboy]

do other banks charge the same [100bht]for a letter for immagration showing your balance?why i ask due to the incompetence of a bkkb staff member who typed someone else's bank acc.no on my letter,i had to go to the nearest branch from immigration to get another,i was made to wait 1.5hrs.and then charged 200bht for the pleasure,and also had to pay another 300bht for the taxi so you can ynderstand why my patience is running out.now i open the envelope and check every detail

[KKvampire]

do other banks charge the same [100bht]for a letter for immagration showing your balance?why i ask due to the incompetence of a bkkb staff member who typed someone else's bank acc.no on my letter,i had to go to the nearest branch from immigration to get another,i was made to wait 1.5hrs.and then charged 200bht for the pleasure,and also had to pay another 300bht for the taxi so you can ynderstand why my patience is running out.now i open the envelope and check every detail

What do you expect , The Bank Sucks, oops Negativity. But FACT

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Well, two weeks have now passed since the last post in this thread.... and nothing more from BKK Bank on the subject here...

Taking quite a bit of time for the bank and its folks here to post their version of a cardholder fraud liability policy that the bank supposedly already had....

Where's the policy, BKK Bank?

[fletchsmile]

Just read this on credit card fraud. The numbers in the US are staggering 8.4 million cards stolen in the US alone each year... That's a hell of a lot that the US banks need to claw back one way or another, and which ultimately gets passed on to the consumer thru other avenues...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-20/stolen-credit-cards-go-for-3-50-each-at-online-bazaar-that-mimics-amazon.html

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just read this on credit card fraud. The numbers in the US are staggering 8.4 million cards stolen in the US alone each year... That's a hell of a lot that the US banks need to claw back one way or another, and which ultimately gets passed on to the consumer thru other avenues...

http://www.bloomberg...ics-amazon.html

Actually, the article says it's that number of credit card numbers that the source in the article says are stolen annually in the U.S.

But you've got to put that number into some context in terms of the number of card numbers in circulation in the U.S., which is quite a bit larger in economic and population terms that Thailand and most other places.

I'm not sure how they get to the 1.5 billion credit cards number referenced below, after adding up the VISA, MC, AMEX and Discover numbers listed separately below... Perhaps the cited 1.5 billion number actually is credit and debit cards. But either way, it's a lot.

In 2006, the United States Census Bureau determined that there were nearly 1.5 billion credit cards in use in the U.S. A stack of all those credit cards would reach more than 70 miles into space -- and be almost as tall as 13 Mount Everests. (Source: NY Times, Feb. 23, 2009)

As of yearend 2009, there were 270 million Visa credit cards and 382 million Visa debit cards in circulation in the United States. (Source: Visa.com)

As of yearend 2009, there were 203 million MasterCard credit cards and 125 million MasterCard debit cards in circulation in the United States. (Source: MasterCard.com)

As of yearend 2009, there were 48.9 million American Express credit cards in circulation in the United States. (Source: AmericanExpress.com)

As of yearend 2009, there were 54.4 million Discover credit cards in circulation in the United States. (Source: Discover.com)

http://www.creditcar...#Card-ownership

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Well, two weeks have now passed since the last post in this thread.... and nothing more from BKK Bank on the subject here...

Taking quite a bit of time for the bank and its folks here to post their version of a cardholder fraud liability policy that the bank supposedly already had....

Where's the policy, BKK Bank?

Well well well.. Now more than a year has passed, and this thread still has never had a response from BKK Bank and their reps here stating/displaying their cardholder fraud liability policy...

Must have been a subject (protecting their customers) they were more than happy to forget about.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

...... this thread still has never had a response from BKK Bank and their reps here .....

As far as I know the Bangkok Bank employee(s) who used to post here on an official basis had too much abuse and stopped doing so.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I don't recall seeing anything like that occurring here. And I don't think anyone would find anything in this thread like that.

There were legitimate questions about bank policy ... ones that were never answered despite promises to do so.

If you want to talk about abuse, go back and read the account of the OP post in this thread, and those posted by other members with similar experiences with their banks. That's what I'd call abuse.

Here's the latest such TV member report: