I Am Screwed And I Know It.

[expatdreamer]

All the best mate - sorry it didnt work out better for you. Maybe others lurking on this forum can learn from this. If you have any info you wish to share for others to avoid (eg was she a bar girl, what was the age difference, etc), then that might be useful.

And that lesson is,

Never give your Thai partner the ability to live in (or travel to) your home country, unless you are prepared to be asset stripped.

(Especially if you live in Oz, cos they will still let Thais in if you have a kid with them while many other countries won't)

Agree, which is why I said at Post #8, next time he has a new TGF he needs to stay in Thailand....

But would still be interested in some of the other details if Punch is willing to provide.

[expatdreamer]

what is her visa statis. both parents sign for passport so do not sign. try and stop your wife from gaining full residency. were you married in thai or aus. try and gather past information about her past in thailand to discredit her personality when it comes to full custody. will help futher.

ok. this is what she will get. only what she put towards the house. whick means not a lot . you will have to sell the house. or buy her out .

so you will not loose a lot over the house.second you will have to pay child maintance till the child is 18 even if she lives overseas. they take the money direct from your salery .she will not be able to take the child out of the country without your permission . they will block her at at the airport. most times the child lives with the mother . but you will get access to the child as normal .if it gets into a shit fight with your wife them she will make it difficult to see the child .use some common sence when dealing with her .if she has not not got full residency that could be your ace in the pocket with her attude towards you .go see a lawyer who deals in divorces ,where do you live if in sydney , there are some good lawyers around.who deal in this stuff. and it will not cost you a lot . james hat yai

Its not just the house though, all the assets get summed up. Assuming she came with nothing, that means all the assets were his (house, car, savings, superannuation, shares)

So I dont agree he wont lose much of the house - if he wants to keep all the other stuff (super being probably the biggest one after the house), he is going to have to hand over a greater share of the house to balance it out. Happens to everyone in Oz that goes through this meat grinder.

Edited November 23, 2011 by expatdreamer

[seekingfriends]

thats what i said. she will get something from the marrage . his super is safe .as for the rest he better see a lawyer asap .so the quicker he cuts his ties with her the better. james

[champken]

Like some of the others have said, i do my utmost to get her back to Thailand, you will have to do a hell of a lot of acting to achieve that, maybe tell her what a good idea it would be if you bought her a nice big house and land in Thailand and why doesn't she go there for a holiday and look for one bla bla bla

Its a fact though, our western laws treat fathers like <deleted>, everything is geared towards screwing the dads and the women know it. Your wife was probably primed up on the laws before she even got to Australia which incidentally has the most anti men laws in the world, i just hope for your sake she doesn't pull the violence card out of the bag, because then you really will have problems

[seekingfriends]

yes . i have to agree with you on this one. dont argue with her .or she will get an avo out against you . and its her word against you . be nice to her and then when you are ready drop the bomb on her. james in hat yai

[punch]

That scheme will not look good in court when the child custody must be settled.

You wouldn't tell the court what you did.

Anyway you will lose custody to the mother if it gets to Oz court, you wouldn't be any worse off.

I thought of that, she said she has to go back next year for some reason. Could be worth a try, At the end of the day I am only telling imagration what is true, the I am no longer sponcering her at that time... If she chooses to come back she could do it all of her own back and money..

[F4UCorsair]

You probably don't need or want to hear this, but marrying one is a mistake, and ringing her to Australia an even bigger mistake.

I wish you the best of luck in your brawl.

[MikeyIdea]

2 things here

1) It is not unusual that a lawyer doesn't have his whole heart into helping his client and if that happens then replacing him may be easier than changing him. On the other hand, approaching him the right way from the beginning is paramount.

It is important in family issues to get a lawyer experienced in family law. A lawyer choose family law probably because he likes the subject (not the book subject) more than civil or criminal law. You win his heart by talking about what is the best for the child. Judges (and also lawyers) dislike people who blaim the partner all the time

OP, if you did start the discussion with your female lawyer barraging her with how bad your partner is, then I can understand why she will not have her heart wholly into supporting you. Instead start over again (perhaps with another lawyer) and this time, start with mother being a negligent mother. I don't necessarily think that a female lawyer is a bad choice (they can be hard) but you got to win their heart and you do that by taking them the right way

2) Stupid comments like dumping mother in Thailand and go back to Australia

There is a court case in Thai Supreme Court going on right now. British father and Thai mother married in Thailand, relationship ended and father brought child to England without mothers consent. Mother sued for sole custody in Thailand and of course got it granted, then she got help of course and filed in England and the court there didn't at all like what the father had done and sent the child back to Thailand.

The father is getting absolutely nowhere in the Supreme Court because he has thoroughly proven that he cannot be trusted. The best thing this father ever can hope for is of course supervised visits, maybe. These things are all of course

You get into an advantage position by keeping the relationship together for the time being and use the time to get solid evidence (video best). Care of the child is what matters. Get video mother coming home after midnight, get video mother drinking, get video mother not caring child gets to bed at night!, get video Daddy goes out and comes home and find child hungry, get video Daddy goes out and find child still in pyjamas when he comes back, get video child is sleeping for the night and mummy hasn't bothered to brush his teeth again. Paint a bad mother

What ludditeman writes above

Anyway you will lose custody to the mother if it gets to Oz court, you wouldn't be any worse off.

Sorry, that is not correct. An Oz court will not remove custody of a caring father, what they often do is to favour the mother giving her more possession of the child though. Dumping the mother in Thailand or withhold the mother from seeing her child will give her a perfect opportunity to get sole custody in an Oz court, don't give her advantages like that, she is favoured enough as it is

Edited November 24, 2011 by MikeyIdea

[punch]

2 things here

1) It is not unusual that a lawyer doesn't have his whole heart into helping his client and if that happens then replacing him may be easier than changing him. On the other hand, approaching him the right way from the beginning is paramount.

It is important in family issues to get a lawyer experienced in family law. A lawyer choose family law probably because he likes the subject (not the book subject) more than civil or criminal law. You win his heart by talking about what is the best for the child. Judges (and also lawyers) dislike people who blaim the partner all the time

OP, if you did start the discussion with your female lawyer barraging her with how bad your partner is, then I can understand why she will not have her heart wholly into supporting you. Instead start over again (perhaps with another lawyer) and this time, start with mother being a negligent mother. I don't necessarily think that a female lawyer is a bad choice (they can be hard) but you got to win their heart and you do that by taking them the right way

2) Stupid comments like dumping mother in Thailand and go back to Australia

There is a court case in Thai Supreme Court going on right now. British father and Thai mother married in Thailand, relationship ended and father brought child to England without mothers consent. Mother sued for sole custody in Thailand and of course got it granted, then she got help of course and filed in England and the court there didn't at all like what the father had done and sent the child back to Thailand.

The father is getting absolutely nowhere in the Supreme Court because he has thoroughly proven that he cannot be trusted. The best thing this father ever can hope for is of course supervised visits, maybe. These things are all of course

You get into an advantage position by keeping the relationship together for the time being and use the time to get solid evidence (video best). Care of the child is what matters. Get video mother coming home after midnight, get video mother drinking, get video mother not caring child gets to bed at night!, get video Daddy goes out and comes home and find child hungry, get video Daddy goes out and find child still in pyjamas when he comes back, get video child is sleeping for the night and mummy hasn't bothered to brush his teeth again. Paint a bad mother

What ludditeman writes above

Anyway you will lose custody to the mother if it gets to Oz court, you wouldn't be any worse off.

Sorry, that is not correct. An Oz court will not remove custody of a caring father, what they often do is to favour the mother giving her more possession of the child though. Dumping the mother in Thailand or withhold the mother from seeing her child will give her a perfect opportunity to get sole custody in an Oz court, don't give her advantages like that, she is favoured enough as it is

Thanks, you are right I do have a female lawyer. And interesting about the UK father, but would it applies to me being the child has only a nAustralian citizen ship now and I will not be giving him a pass port?

Edited November 24, 2011 by punch

[bangkokburning]

I have a novel idea - don't get divorced. Leave it in limbo forever.

Yup, trip off to Thailand (make it too good to resist) and leave her here. The case pointed out was where a guy took a kid away from mother and left with it overseas. As I understand the child is in OZ and may even be full OZ citizen. In this case I don't know why a court would take this child and give it to a Thai national -but I am not a lawyer.

At the very least she will need to get the funds together to return. Change the locks and get bars for the windows, better yet - sell the house and go underground - keep the kids with the grandparents for awhile. Of course, drain the bank accounts.

She will need lots of cash to pursue all this as well as a place to stay during legal proceedings.

When you are sufficiently hidden - contact here for a divorce on your terms.

Stop thinking about "the law" and start applying creative solutions. Wait her out. No doubt she is impatient, calculating and when she wakes up to the fact her life is going by without opptys to scam another guy as her beauty fades AND she has no kid - her tune will change.

In the USA as Thailand I believe, whatever you own before the marriage is yours. I presume the same is true in OZ.

Your biggest fear should be getting hit with huge child support.

She sounds awful

Edited November 24, 2011 by bangkokburning

[ludditeman]

I have a novel idea - don't get divorced.

Yup, trip off to Thailand (make it too good to resist) and leave her here. At the very least she will need o get the funds together to return. File something hostile against her so if she does front up at the door, you can call the cops. Change the locks and get bars for the windows, better yet - sell the house and go underground - keep the kids with the grandparents for awhile. Of course, drain the bank accounts.

She will need lots of cash to pursue all this as well as a place to stay during legal proceedings.

When you are sufficiently hidden - contact here for a divorce on your terms.

She sounds awful

How about

Dump her in Thailand then claim to Oz court that she has disappeared, leaving the child with you.

[PattayaParent]

It is important in family issues to get a lawyer experienced in family law. A lawyer choose family law probably because he likes the subject (not the book subject) more than civil or criminal law. You win his heart by talking about what is the best for the child. Judges (and also lawyers) dislike people who blaim the partner all the time

Probably the best advice so far.

My long lost cousin in Oz got sole custody of his son, and received state child benefit, when divorcing from a foreign wife so it is not impossible, although highly unusual.

An experienced family lawyer would know such unusual cases and their circumstances.

Edited November 24, 2011 by PattayaParent

[MikeyIdea]

Too long post removed,

Thanks, you are right I do have a female lawyer. And interesting about the UK father, but would it applies to me being the child has only a nAustralian citizen ship now and I will not be giving him a pass port?

Child is Thai too, by nature of having a Thai mother. There is no doubt that the mother will get sole custody granted in Thailand and next step is criminal charges for kidnaping. The mother can easily get these through both Thai courts nearly for free. And you will be arrested at the airport if you ever come to Thailand again

Think of the purpose of the law and it is easier to understand. Passport now or not doesn't matter, a child should have right to both a mother and a father and you put yourself really in the shit legally if you deny the child that. Australian family law interpretation also puts more weight on parents rights than Thai interpretation

Evidence of negligence is what you need

[MikeyIdea]

<snip>

She will need lots of cash to pursue all this as well as a place to stay during legal proceedings.

<snip>

Your biggest fear should be getting hit with huge child support.

Long post so I cut parts, please look above for full post

First sentence: No, she will not need lot's of cash. The mother will get both sole custody and criminal kidnapping charges through the courts in Thailand for a hundred Australian dollars max. Paveena foundation will help her with lawyer for free even. She doesn't need lawyer for more than starting up the cases either actually, she will get the rest easily also if she comes alone to the court hearings

Then translate kidnapping charges and sole custody decision to English and email to the abused mothers and child organisation of Australia or whatever it is called and she will get all the help she needs to plan and implement this, including free accommodation (provided by mothers) and free lawyer (provided by tax money). She'll need the airplane ticket only almost

Second sentence: I dislike that sentence a lot! The OP's greatest fear should be not getting access to his child

Edited November 24, 2011 by MikeyIdea

[punch]

<snip>

She will need lots of cash to pursue all this as well as a place to stay during legal proceedings.

<snip>

Your biggest fear should be getting hit with huge child support.

Long post so I cut parts, please look above for full post

First sentence: No, she will not need lot's of cash. The mother will get both sole custody and criminal kidnapping charges through the courts in Thailand for a hundred Australian dollars max. Paveena foundation will help her with lawyer for free even. She doesn't need lawyer for more than starting up the cases either actually, she will get the rest easily also if she comes alone to the court hearings

Then translate kidnapping charges and sole custody decision to English and email to the abused mothers and child organisation of Australia or whatever it is called and she will get all the help she needs to plan and implement this, including free accommodation (provided by mothers) and free lawyer (provided by tax money). She'll need the airplane ticket only almost

Second sentence: I dislike that sentence a lot! The OP's greatest fear should be not getting access to his child

Yes Mike, I could loose my assets and pay what ever is needed but if I lost my child in anyway back to thailand or somthing that would crush me.

[punch]

You probably don't need or want to hear this, but marrying one is a mistake, and ringing her to Australia an even bigger mistake.

I wish you the best of luck in your brawl.

Marrying all round is a big mistake, westurn or thai.. never again.

[punch]

All the best mate - sorry it didnt work out better for you. Maybe others lurking on this forum can learn from this. If you have any info you wish to share for others to avoid (eg was she a bar girl, what was the age difference, etc), then that might be useful.

Thanks for the very good info... this is the 3rd time I have tried to respond to you.. so if it doubles up sorry..

I am happy to give a back ground before all this happend.

No she was not a bar girl.. Just working class with a uni degree in marketing. She had a good job, car ect..

She actually lied about her age I thought I was 13 years older then her but after I got a copy of her pass port I found I was 17 years older.. I think this is way to much, not to bad if she was say 35.. but at 22 its to great..

The sin sod was way to high 200000 baht for a pregnat women.. with no return, but I knew I did not pay she would not have our baby in Australia.

So same old story, marrie close to your own age, and don't marry a very vain facebook junkie who is also addicted to thai soap's.

One thing I did not know about is Hi So girls.. and the wantb to be Hi So girls and she is one of them.

[champken]

Can somebody explain to me how a married father can be charged with kidnapping his own child?...until custody is determined by a court of law then a charge of kidnapping cannot happen.

[nontabury]

First sentence: No, she will not need lot's of cash. The mother will get both sole custody and criminal kidnapping charges through the courts in Thailand for a hundred Australian dollars max. Paveena foundation will help her with lawyer for free even. She doesn't need lawyer for more than starting up the cases either actually, she will get the rest easily also if she comes alone to the court hearings

Then translate kidnapping charges and sole custody decision to English and email to the abused mothers and child organisation of Australia or whatever it is called and she will get all the help she needs to plan and implement this, including free accommodation (provided by mothers) and free lawyer (provided by tax money). She'll need the airplane ticket only almost

Second sentence: I dislike that sentence a lot! The OP's greatest fear should be not getting access to his child

Are you sure there is a law in Thailand, regarding a (LEGAL) father kidnapping his own child?

[ludditeman]

Are you sure there is a law in Thailand, regarding a (LEGAL) father kidnapping his own child?

I am absolutely certain that there is no such crime in Thailand.

For a married couple, whoever grabs the child, keeps the child.

Until divorce and custody is settled anyway.

One of my pals jumped Thailand with his kid, had no problems at all.

Thai officials asked him where the mother was at the airport, he said no idea, they said off you go then.

(Happened about 6 months ago)

Edited November 24, 2011 by ludditeman

[F4UCorsair]

And that lesson is, >

Never give your Thai partner the ability to live in (or travel to) your home country, unless you are prepared to be asset stripped.>(Especially if you live in Oz, cos they will still let Thais in if you have a kid with them while many other countries won't)

Even if you don't bring her to Australia, she will have a claim against your assets if it all goes pear shaped. Under Australian law, a woman has only to prove that she was in a sexual relationship for 12 months, and she has a claim, and contrary to popular myth, there is nothing in the Family Law Act that dictates percentages for division of assets. That information comes from my barrister friend. All a Thai woman has to do is go to one of the many legal offices with English speaking lawyers, e.g., Siam Legal, and they initiate proceedings through an Australian lawyer. The problem here is that lawyers are just whores wearing suits, and they'll strip you of your money and ensure it goes to any claimant so they can be paid a fat fee, regardless of the morality and legitimacy of the claimant.

If I was living in Thailand and took up with a Thai woman, I would never bring her to Australia, and she would never know of any assets I have her. I'd tell her I was on a disability pension or something similar.

The golden rule is, "If it floats, flies or f***s, you don't buy it, you HIRE it." That advice is as valid now as the day it was coined.

Edited November 24, 2011 by F4UCorsair

[expatdreamer]

And that lesson is, >

Never give your Thai partner the ability to live in (or travel to) your home country, unless you are prepared to be asset stripped.>(Especially if you live in Oz, cos they will still let Thais in if you have a kid with them while many other countries won't)

Even if you don't bring her to Australia, she will have a claim against your assets if it all goes pear shaped. Under Australian law, a woman has only to prove that she was in a sexual relationship for 12 months, and she has a claim, and contrary to popular myth, there is nothing in the Family Law Act that dictates percentages for division of assets. That information comes from my barrister friend. All a Thai woman has to do is go to one of the many legal offices with English speaking lawyers, e.g., Siam Legal, and they initiate proceedings through an Australian lawyer. The problem here is that lawyers are just whores wearing suits, and they'll strip you of your money and ensure it goes to any claimant so they can be paid a fat fee, regardless of the morality and legitimacy of the claimant.

If I was living in Thailand and took up with a Thai woman, I would never bring her to Australia, and she would never know of any assets I have her. I'd tell her I was on a disability pension or something similar.

The golden rule is, "If it floats, flies or f***s, you don't buy it, you HIRE it." That advice is as valid now as the day it was coined.

Firstly I am not a lawyer, so the below is not legal advice.

I believe you are correct that "under Australian law, a woman has only to prove that she was in a sexual relationship for 12 months, and she has a claim, and contrary to popular myth, there is nothing in the Family Law Act that dictates percentages for division of assets under Oz law".

I also agree with you that "if I was living in Thailand and took up with a Thai woman, I would never bring her to Australia, and she would never know of any assets I have here".

However as far as a Thai woman in Thailand that you have been living with only in Thailand, wanting to stake a claim on your assets in Oz after the relationship is over, this might be difficult (but happy to be proven wrong if someone has actual evidence of this occuring and being successful)

Assuming no marriage is involved, then the defacto-relationship laws are relevant for a relationship in Australia. See the legislation at http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/C2008A00115

It seems from this legislation that at least one of the parties must have been "ordinarily resident" in Australia for the law to apply - see section 90RG.

Also section 90SD suggests that both parties of the relationship must have been ordinarily resident in Australia for at least one third of the relationship (this clearly wont apply if you have not brought the Thai woman to Oz), or that the Thai woman made a substantial contribution to the relationship in one or more States or territories of Oz.

So happy to be proven wrong but it would seem perhaps difficult to make a claim in an Oz court for Oz assets and succeed, for a relationship that occured and was restricted to Thailand.

[expatdreamer]

Punch

Thanks for the additional info.

Seems whether it is a bar girl, farm girl, Hi So or wannabe Hi So, there are no guarantees on the outcome.

I think you may have had a greater chance of success if you had kept her in Thailand (assuming you would have been able to live there from a work perspective or were financially independent). I dont think your age gap is that much of an issue in Thailand. However, a young early 20s Thai girl (and I assume pretty and skinny as most of them are, particularly those getting married to a foreigner) would have many temptations and opportunities being thrown at her here in Oz from guys in their 20s, even just going into town for shopping during the day (let alone nightclubs on a Saturday night) so it would require a very faithful and loyal girl not to succumb to those temptations here in Oz. In Thailand at least you have somewhat of an upper hand as the rich falang (even if you are not rich here in Oz, relatively speaking you are if you stay in Thailand)

[MikeyIdea]

Are you sure there is a law in Thailand, regarding a (LEGAL) father kidnapping his own child?

I am absolutely certain that there is no such crime in Thailand.

For a married couple, whoever grabs the child, keeps the child.

Until divorce and custody is settled anyway.

One of my pals jumped Thailand with his kid, had no problems at all.

Thai officials asked him where the mother was at the airport, he said no idea, they said off you go then.

(Happened about 6 months ago)

You missed the order of the events. Mother goes to court and gets sole custody FIRST, then the mother can (and will) sue for kidnapping if the father doesn't hand over the child to her

Very legal

Edited November 25, 2011 by MikeyIdea

[ludditeman]

Are you sure there is a law in Thailand, regarding a (LEGAL) father kidnapping his own child?

I am absolutely certain that there is no such crime in Thailand.

For a married couple, whoever grabs the child, keeps the child.

Until divorce and custody is settled anyway.

One of my pals jumped Thailand with his kid, had no problems at all.

Thai officials asked him where the mother was at the airport, he said no idea, they said off you go then.

(Happened about 6 months ago)

You missed the order of the events. Mother goes to court and gets sole custody FIRST, then the mother can (and will) sue for kidnapping if the father doesn't hand over the child to her

Very legal

But in this case, no court action, so your comments misleading and irrelevant.

[Mario2008]

Several comments leads me to point out that Thailand nowadays has signed the Convention on International Child Abduction, this is ony about the civil aspects but in many countries also will have criminal aspects as kidnapping charges can be laid.

http://www.hcch.net/index_en.php?act=conventions.status&cid=24

[MikeyIdea]

Are you sure there is a law in Thailand, regarding a (LEGAL) father kidnapping his own child?

I am absolutely certain that there is no such crime in Thailand.

For a married couple, whoever grabs the child, keeps the child.

Until divorce and custody is settled anyway.

One of my pals jumped Thailand with his kid, had no problems at all.

Thai officials asked him where the mother was at the airport, he said no idea, they said off you go then.

(Happened about 6 months ago)

You missed the order of the events. Mother goes to court and gets sole custody FIRST, then the mother can (and will) sue for kidnapping if the father doesn't hand over the child to her

Very legal

But in this case, no court action, so your comments misleading and irrelevant.

Of course no court action yet, the OP and the mother are still living together in Australia...

I did chat to a juvenile court judge just about this in July. What you don't know ludditeman, is that the event that I am describing is not entirely uncommon

Edited November 25, 2011 by MikeyIdea

[punch]

[quote name='expatdreamer' timestamp='

However, a young early 20s Thai girl (and I assume pretty and skinny as most of them are, particularly those getting married to a foreigner) would have many temptations and opportunities being thrown at her here in Oz from guys in their 20s, even just going into town for shopping during the day (let alone nightclubs on a Saturday night) so it would require a very faithful and loyal girl not to succumb to those temptations here in Oz.

I hope so, she is heading out with her Thai gf saturday night ( she is cheating on her husban I found out as well) I hope some bloke sweeps her of her feet and she falls in total lust. When these two go out its like fly's to sh__ . Fingers crossed.

[dmerchent]

You definitely need to have a private detective on her tail for this Sat. night outing!! Get the evidence against her!!

[smiling mantis]

Delay. The collapse of western civilization is nearly upon us. Whichever it ends up going, your issues with family court will become moot.