Married Men

[MsClueless]

I dont know if Im looking for advice per se, maybe it is more a rant and need to vent

and part of it is perhaps a rhetoric question.....

I work mostly with Thai, but in my work my paths cross with many farang (mostly male)

usually my interaction with them is not face to face....everything happens through emails.

recently there was an occasion where I met many of them......most are people Ive never met, nor had any interaction with at all. I was very shocked when I had more than one man make advances on me. and more angry when I learnt that 4 out of 5 of them are married men

so what is it with them.....

is it that they dont respect their own marriage?

is it that they assume every woman in thailand are fair game, and that neither of us have or care about moral rules?

is it that they do not have any social/professional etiquette?

or is it that these men are just going to be the way they are, regardless of where they live and who they are dealing with?

yes, sure some of them had had a few drinks (maybe some had way too much) - but still. why get married if you cant remain loyal?

Im baffled, angry and upset all at the same time...and in a way, also disappointed in general. makes me doubt about men in general, and whether there are sincere and loyal /faithful men who dont stray

(yes I know some nice guys who are very good to their wives....but when you meet so many that didnt even hesitate or try to hide the fact they are going to cheat.....all in one day....it starts to cast doubts on the whole male specie.....)

msclueless (and baffled and shocked)

ohhh, and no Im not stunning or a supermodel that men will find irresistable. just average, and not all that young or slim either

Edited December 19, 2011 by MsClueless

[Heimdallr]

Some men may lynch me for telling the truth here but what you have witnessed is basic behavior of most men (given a chance and confidence of course). It is easier to try and live with it.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Heimdallr

[Spoonman]

Because we can.

[TheWalkingMan]

Some men may lynch me for telling the truth here but what you have witnessed is basic behavior of most men (given a chance and confidence of course). It is easier to try and live with it.

The above is pretty much correct. Then again, there are plenty of women who welcome the attention and pretty much make it a mutual horizontal dance.

[Ave]

My immediate idea (and I could well be wrong as there could be many possible conclusions here) is that if you look particularly confident in an attractive way most men who are not totally confident with themselves will want to behave like that to prove to others that they can get your attention. If there is a majority of men then, even more so. You are the star of the evening and they will all compete with each other to be with you. It's a game. I think it could still happen if you were a man and the rest were women.

There are a number of people who find this type of behaviour attractive and others totally off putting. I have had to end my friendship with some couples because the guy would make me, his girlfriend and my then partner feel uncomfortable. I had to leave a job because the boss' wife was giving me grief, she was jealous of me for no particular reason, I hardly ever saw him or talked to him at all and neither of us felt anything for each other, I think she was a bit insecure and perhaps she didn't trust him.

I just keep in mind a great answer Paul Newman once gave a journalist when asked if he had ever felt tempted to cheat on his wife during his Hollywood years. I can't remember well but it was something like Why look for a mere burger when you can have a tasty steak waiting for you at home?

I believe that there are many men and women who don't need to cheat on their partners because they are in a stable and happy relationship based on trust and friendship which goes well beyond romance. There are couples who need to cheat on each other or live an open relationship to feel complete. As long as they are happy..

[Ave]

An interesting article

[WarpSpeed]

ohhh, and no Im not stunning or a supermodel that men will find irresistable. just average, and not all that young or slim either

Then you should feel more complimented then put off or exasperated..

You failed to mention if you're Thai or not? If not it is also likely you're a bit of a break from the usual to these men and a novelty not to be passed by, even chocolate ice cream gets boring after a while no matter how good it tastes..

[mca]

I believe that there are many men and women who don't need to cheat on their partners because they are in a stable and happy relationship based on trust and friendship which goes well beyond romance.

With my wife it's never a cross word spoken, no moody tantrums, no infantile arguments, a relationship based on trust, plenty of laughs, she's my best pal and a daughter we both adore.

Why throw that away with someone who's about a million light years from holding a candle to my missus.

Edited December 19, 2011 by mca

[johnbits]

So if they had a few drinks, are you meeting them in a bar? Details matter, like why you meet them in the first place. IMO the odds you quote are too high.

[bkkjames]

Just because someone with a vested interest wrote in some book about sinning, doesn't make a difference in the animal kingdom.

Face it. We are pigs.

[MsClueless]

Ave - thanks for sharing

yes there were a bit more men than there were women...but not overly so

the problem for me is not that they paid me attention (Im a woman, sure I enjoy the attention), or even a bit of flirting.......the problem and the shock is when they are directly suggest more than that. to someone they have just met, spoken to for such a short time, and someone they meet in a semi work environment. with more than half of them being married is even more so shocking

one of them was so direct to the point of being vulgar. i didnt wait to find out whether hes married or not! couldnt wait to walk away!

(and before anyone wants to suggest I was dressed in a provocative way - the answer is no!)

johnbits - no this was not in a bar, but it was a social gathering outside the office

Edited December 20, 2011 by MsClueless

[Spoonman]

the problem for me is not that they paid me attention (Im a woman, sure I enjoy the attention), or even a bit of flirting.......the problem and the shock is when they are directly suggest more than that. to someone they have just met, spoken to for such a short time, and someone they meet in a semi work environment. with more than half of them being married is even more so shocking

one of them was so direct to the point of being vulgar. i didnt wait to find out whether hes married or not! couldnt wait to walk away!

(and before anyone wants to suggest I was dressed in a provocative way - the answer is no!)

TiT ?

[hehehoho]

Men like sex with women, even if their wife isn't around. Shock.

My mistress (sex only, {unpaid }) is lovely, as is the wife. If another fit female wishes to be added to the collection I probably wouldn't refuse.

It's our DNA, it's what we're programmed to do.

[Ave]

Men like sex with women, even if their wife isn't around. Shock.

My mistress (sex only, {unpaid }) is lovely, as is the wife. If another fit female wishes to be added to the collection I probably wouldn't refuse.

It's our DNA, it's what we're programmed to do.

[Ave]

Ave - thanks for sharing

yes there were a bit more men than there were women...but not overly so

the problem for me is not that they paid me attention (Im a woman, sure I enjoy the attention), or even a bit of flirting.......the problem and the shock is when they are directly suggest more than that. to someone they have just met, spoken to for such a short time, and someone they meet in a semi work environment. with more than half of them being married is even more so shocking

one of them was so direct to the point of being vulgar. i didnt wait to find out whether hes married or not! couldnt wait to walk away!

(and before anyone wants to suggest I was dressed in a provocative way - the answer is no!)

johnbits - no this was not in a bar, but it was a social gathering outside the office

MsClueless, I can imagine that you might be feeling quite disturbed by all this. Are these your colleagues the men you are talking about? If that's the case I think that knowing that in Thailand they would get away with it without being accused of sexual harassment makes it more of a bravado than anything. Or perhaps if they know each other quite well they might have put a bet on sleeping with you or something like that. It could be what actually happened which can leave an after taste of humiliation. If you feel intimidated by these people you could try to talk to someone in a position of authority at work about it. If it's difficult or not worth it I'd take it as an experience to learn from. In my experience, a threatening long stare keeps that kind of hungry beast away for good..

[MsClueless]

hi Ave

they are not my colleagues...but our paths cross on a professional level.

its not so much about sexual harassment - only one of them was rude. the others were friendly and polite enough. it was only when I find that they are married that surprised me. and it became more of a shock that after they had made known they are married, they go on to suggest more than just a friendly chat.....

two of them know each other, while another two dont know each other at all. and all of them only met me that day for the first time!

I am learning to live with it, when it first happened to me many years ago I was very upset, and began to wonder if I had given the guy any impression. but today I have learnt that it is nothing I did / do.

it still does not stop to baffle me though - why get married, or decide to enter a committed relationship? if you arent going to remain loyal and committed, its better to tell your partner the nature of the relationship

Edited December 22, 2011 by MsClueless

[MsClueless]

maybe a question to hehehoho

does your wife know of the mistress? how does she feel about that?

[marstons]

I usually have the same problem from thai ladies, especially the one's who have husbands and boyfriends outside the country. think now days both sex's are the same as each other. its not unique to men, its in all our Jeans.

could be said the like's of Miss Lewinski and Camilla Parker Bowles had no morals as well.

[dominique355]

I just read recently that 57% of all married men in Thailand are cheating on their wife.

But ... 63% of all married women in Thailand do too!

So may be the OP is coming down a bit from the moral high grounds. It's a normal thing here. Thai culture.

[sbk]

Believe OP was not talking about Thai men...

[skippybangkok]

I dont know if Im looking for advice per se, maybe it is more a rant and need to vent

and part of it is perhaps a rhetoric question.....

I work mostly with Thai, but in my work my paths cross with many farang (mostly male)

usually my interaction with them is not face to face....everything happens through emails.

recently there was an occasion where I met many of them......most are people Ive never met, nor had any interaction with at all. I was very shocked when I had more than one man make advances on me. and more angry when I learnt that 4 out of 5 of them are married men

so what is it with them.....

is it that they dont respect their own marriage?

is it that they assume every woman in thailand are fair game, and that neither of us have or care about moral rules?

is it that they do not have any social/professional etiquette?

or is it that these men are just going to be the way they are, regardless of where they live and who they are dealing with?

yes, sure some of them had had a few drinks (maybe some had way too much) - but still. why get married if you cant remain loyal?

Im baffled, angry and upset all at the same time...and in a way, also disappointed in general. makes me doubt about men in general, and whether there are sincere and loyal /faithful men who dont stray

(yes I know some nice guys who are very good to their wives....but when you meet so many that didnt even hesitate or try to hide the fact they are going to cheat.....all in one day....it starts to cast doubts on the whole male specie.....)

msclueless (and baffled and shocked)

ohhh, and no Im not stunning or a supermodel that men will find irresistable. just average, and not all that young or slim either

What are you doing tonight, i can explain it

[Berkshire]

There is a strange phenomenon that happens to many farang men in Thailand. A lot of these guys were socially inept back in their homelands, while some are just past their prime. They don't get much attention from women back in the west, especially younger women. Once they spend a little bit of time in Thailand (read the bar scene), they become convinced that they are Adonis, or as you often hear, "hansum man." They mistakenly take this new-found confidence out into normal society. Thai women (the normal ones) may be uncomfortable with this, but will not outwardly reject farang men due to shyness and the culture (i.e., not to offend people). But occassionally, the farang guy will approach a farang woman who is not shy about responding with a "Who the heck do you think you are?" sort of reaction.

So why get married in the first place? Well, my observation is that some of these guys have been lonely for so long that when the first person pays attention to them, they jump right on it. Buyers' remorse then? Some of these guys just believe that they are entitled, being God's gift to women, kid-in-a-candy-store, and all that. My two cents.

[MsClueless]

Berkshire - they don't seem so socially inept at all. If anything, they were overly confident.

I spoke to two of them more than I did with the others. One even made it a point to comment on my ring to say ahhh that's not a wedding ring finger. Basically saying he's checking whether I'm married. That was when I checked his fingers too. And no, no ring.

Strange thing to do.

And no it is not acceptable to cheat in thai culture. Does it exist? Yes. But not amongst people around me. And in my opinion I assume those that make attempt would consider circumstances and make the approach differently.

Eg if you approach a woman who work in a bar maybe more direct

If it is someone you don't know personally, but you are in same circle of business / professional setting I imagine people would refrain! Or approach only when woman has given signal she's interested, or you have known each other for sometime and u think she maybe interested

But a random stranger?

And yes sbk none of the men I'm talk about are thai. All are farang

[hehehoho]

maybe a question to hehehoho

does your wife know of the mistress? how does she feel about that?

It's also built into our DNA to keep that quiet.

Do you think the foreign men who wanted to use you for extra-marital fun were going to use it as pillow talk with the missus that night?

[marstons]

Berkshire - they don't seem so socially inept at all. If anything, they were overly confident.

I spoke to two of them more than I did with the others. One even made it a point to comment on my ring to say ahhh that's not a wedding ring finger. Basically saying he's checking whether I'm married. That was when I checked his fingers too. And no, no ring.

Strange thing to do.

And no it is not acceptable to cheat in thai culture. Does it exist? Yes. But not amongst people around me. And in my opinion I assume those that make attempt would consider circumstances and make the approach differently.

Eg if you approach a woman who work in a bar maybe more direct

If it is someone you don't know personally, but you are in same circle of business / professional setting I imagine people would refrain! Or approach only when woman has given signal she's interested, or you have known each other for sometime and u think she maybe interested

But a random stranger?

And yes sbk none of the men I'm talk about are thai. All are farang

its is Endemic in all levels of Thai society, high class Thais have giks and its well known, despite being on tv with there wife and children. there have been high proflle case of people in Parliament doing it, a friend of mine works and Sixth Sence in Samui and high society people turn up all time with differnt young ladies other than there wives. you must be leading a very sheltered life if you think its not rampant. Another problem is the reputation of thailand around the world so they guys quite wrongly assumed all Thai women were easy. Such is i tell people at home i live in South East Asia as i dont like the responses when i say Thailand. Its goes on in all society's in all countries. your statement thats its not acceptable in thai society is in my opinion so far off the mark. take a look at the HiSo kareoke car parks, Porche , Mercs etc. also seems to be a perk of the job of heads of school to be unfaithfull with younger teaches.

[maccaroni man]

IMO the op has a problem because she only see's mans behavior from her world and is not open or aware that not all people view relationships the same way. FME when we begin to accept that others behavior and attitudes hold just as much value as our own then we begin to see the planet is full of people living their own way to find joy and happiness. In other words one persons cheating is an others loyalty. One persons salvation is an others doom.

[NanLaew]

Berkshire - they don't seem so socially inept at all. If anything, they were overly confident.

I spoke to two of them more than I did with the others. One even made it a point to comment on my ring to say ahhh that's not a wedding ring finger. Basically saying he's checking whether I'm married. That was when I checked his fingers too. And no, no ring.

Strange thing to do.

And no it is not acceptable to cheat in thai culture. Does it exist? Yes. But not amongst people around me. And in my opinion I assume those that make attempt would consider circumstances and make the approach differently.

Eg if you approach a woman who work in a bar maybe more direct

If it is someone you don't know personally, but you are in same circle of business / professional setting I imagine people would refrain! Or approach only when woman has given signal she's interested, or you have known each other for sometime and u think she maybe interested

But a random stranger?

And yes sbk none of the men I'm talk about are thai. All are farang

Sounds like the annual company Christmas party wasn't much fun then. You mentioned is an earlier post that when the same thing happened a few years ago, it upset you back then. Was that in Thailand or somewhere else? I appreciate that some people just don't 'get' flirting but it is a guy thing. Now add a group of guys, some alcohol and the lower social barriers that come with socializing with fellow workers of either gender... see where it's headed? When pondering why some of these guys seemed intent in bedding you, consider why do dogs chase cars they can't possibly drive?

Regards the married farang office studs hitting up on you; I wonder how many had hi-so Thai-Chinese graduate wives waiting dutifully at home for their return?

Edited December 25, 2011 by NanLaew

[Berkshire]

Berkshire - they don't seem so socially inept at all. If anything, they were overly confident.

You've missed my point--please read post #22 again. What I'm saying is that they may have been socially inept back in their homeland, but have developed a sense (usually a false sense) of confidence since being in Thailand. I also explained why. Hence, the "overly confident" persona that you're referring to.

[mikecwm]

I believe your question might be best answered by the old joke - Women need a reason to have sex, men just need a place.

In the case of a certain Austrian man, he dug out his "place" under his house then kidnapped his daughter and fathered several children with her. You no doubt remember the details as well as I do.

I only bring this up as an example of the ability of 'some' men to go to great extremes to satisfy what is, no doubt, a deep seated and unstoppable urge to have sex.

Humans may have advanced somewhat since we dropped down out of the trees, but we still seem to have a long way to go before we can be called civilised.

Women do seem to be helping with that civilisation process, but when the world once again descends into widespread war I wonder if the terror that the German women endured as the Russians advanced across their land will be repeated.

I have my doubts that we have come very far on the road to real civilisation.

[BookMan]

I just read recently that 57% of all married men in Thailand are cheating on their wife.

But ... 63% of all married women in Thailand do too!

So may be the OP is coming down a bit from the moral high grounds. It's a normal thing here. Thai culture.

That survey was by a condom company....they had a vested interest in promoting promiscuity. Id wager it was an unscientific survey, perhaps even just a 'fill in the weblink survey; for allcomers.