Please Tell Me Karma Exists

[Darrel]

all bad deeds have an instant fix clause in Thailand.

........go to the temple and make merit (money, food, etc; ) and all is forgiven.

It may be forgiven by the local monks, but as far as I'm concerned they dont count for much.

[travelmann]

Mosha:

Since this is NOT the Buddhist forum I won't go into a lot of detail...simply becaue most readers of this reply will turn off their minds once they read this first sentance.

But i will just say that as a Buddhist, I believe that Karma exists....but not as it is normally concieved of as retribution for a specific deed.

Rather think of Karma (by which you probably actually mean BAD Karma) as a poison.

If you dump poison into a municipal water supply, that poison will affect everyone in that city.

Anyone who drinks that water takes in that poison.

What your wife saw was like a poison being dumped into the city water supply....everyone got sick.

That's how Karma really works.

But I said I wouldn't give a lecture here....and so I won't.

Happy New Year.

Ah the old " you wont open your mind" rubbish eh . Ill never believe because my mind is closed blah blah.

Have I got all the answers NO, but I dont make up crap and get most of the world to believe in it and label it religion let millions dies for it with not shred of any evidence.

Why faced with an unknown do we always get the ridiculous...................God ,Karma, Ghosts, Im sorry but believing in a 3 headed Lepricorn who made the world from marshmallows on the back of flying elephant is just as valid as any of the above and you cant prove I'm wrong yet if i spouted this out Id be laughed down but its just as valid..

The simple answer is you dont know, nor do I but Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese give up the tripe ideas and come up with something half decent..

Dont take offence by the way non is intended just "open YOUR mind" to how ridiculous it all is.

[travelmann]

Karma does not exist ...... as you can see throughout history where evil people lived a long life and died peacefully.

Sure.

But did they die happy? And what happened after?

What has dying happy got to do with it? After there is no after?, do dogs die happy, why can only humans have karma, all B/S as usual Karma, God, Lepricorns etc etc all the same nonsense wrapped up in mystical crap.

must be great having all the answers!

Better than inventing tripe, ps left all my money to Mr Dawkins Foundation

[Roadman]

_{Karma does exist. Will it return its reward on these a-holes? I think it is already is. As you said the guests at the ceremony were turned off by their actions. Do you think that if one of these a-holes turned up in an hour of need requesting help for themselves that their actions would be forgotten/ readily forgiven by those who witnessed it?}

_{Karma is quite simple. Live your life creating crap and you live with crap. Live your life creating good and you live with good.}

Edited December 31, 2011 by Roadman

[travelmann]

_{Karma does exist. Will it return its reward on these a-holes? I think it is already is. As you said the guests at the ceremony were turned off by their actions. Do you think that if one of these a-holes turned up in an hour of need requesting help for themselves that their actions would be forgotten/ readily forgiven by those who witnessed it?}

_{Karma is quite simple. Live your life creating crap and you live with crap. Live your life creating good and you live with good.}

Except people have VERY very short memories ( what was I saying?) and I bet if any money was involved ie said dog basher offered some of them work at a reasonable rate they'd work for him regardless.

[Roadman]

_{Karma does exist. Will it return its reward on these a-holes? I think it is already is. As you said the guests at the ceremony were turned off by their actions. Do you think that if one of these a-holes turned up in an hour of need requesting help for themselves that their actions would be forgotten/ readily forgiven by those who witnessed it?}

_{Karma is quite simple. Live your life creating crap and you live with crap. Live your life creating good and you live with good.}

Except people have VERY very short memories ( what was I saying?) and I bet if any money was involved ie said dog basher offered some of them work at a reasonable rate they'd work for him regardless.

Quite possibly. But what is also possible is that the dog basher accepts that dog bashing is normal so while doing work for the reasonable rate cheap charlie carries on bashing dogs as the way of their accepted crap life. By the laws of probailities that you may want to use for one of the witnesses getting cheap labour being balanced by one of the other witnesses own dogs getting crow bar beaten by the low life and this witness in best thai style says "f you" and shots the dog basher dead. OK stretching the point but Karma (and I do not think it is a religion) should generally (and the law of percentages does apply) kick in if you are being an a hole for long enough or being a good person for long enough.

Edited to add: I think the best western definition of Karma would be - "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" or however it goes.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Roadman

[F1fanatic]

As far as I can see the 'powerful' in all societies are pretty nasty people with little (if any) conscience.

Yet they die without any obvious retribution.

Its a bit like 'miracles'. If someone escapes something that should have killed them it is a 'miracle' - if they don't survive, it is just 'bad luck'.

Similarly, when someone suffers after hurting someone else, people like to think its 'karma' rather than just 'bad luck'....

[bangkaew]

_{Karma does exist. Will it return its reward on these a-holes? I think it is already is. As you said the guests at the ceremony were turned off by their actions. Do you think that if one of these a-holes turned up in an hour of need requesting help for themselves that their actions would be forgotten/ readily forgiven by those who witnessed it?}

_{Karma is quite simple. Live your life creating crap and you live with crap. Live your life creating good and you live with good.}

also anyone doing evil will have had evil done to them, making them do evil in return. Evil is contagious and it takes strength to break the chain.

[F1fanatic]

_{Karma does exist. Will it return its reward on these a-holes? I think it is already is. As you said the guests at the ceremony were turned off by their actions. Do you think that if one of these a-holes turned up in an hour of need requesting help for themselves that their actions would be forgotten/ readily forgiven by those who witnessed it?}

_{Karma is quite simple. Live your life creating crap and you live with crap. Live your life creating good and you live with good.}

also anyone doing evil will have had evil done to them, making them do evil in return. Evil is contagious and it takes strength to break the chain.

I agree to a certain extent, but only in simple ways.

If one is bad-tempered to someone else, that is likely to make them bad-tempered too, and continue the chain.

However, "evil" is something entirely different and few receive retribution for genuine evil. Yes, a few serial killers are caught, but far more escape detection.

[planemad]

Travelman, you are very quick to dismiss the views of those with religious or spiritual beliefs. Then you say that you don’t know and don’t have all the answers, but that WE should give up OUR tripe ideas. Well, none of us have the answers, but that does not stop us having some sort of faith.

I therefore respectfully request whilst your views might differ substantially from mine and billions of others who share a belief in “something”, please respect our right to those beliefs and not try to belittle or humiliate those whose views are different to your own.

Thank you

Edited December 31, 2011 by planemad

[bangkaew]

_{Karma does exist. Will it return its reward on these a-holes? I think it is already is. As you said the guests at the ceremony were turned off by their actions. Do you think that if one of these a-holes turned up in an hour of need requesting help for themselves that their actions would be forgotten/ readily forgiven by those who witnessed it?}

_{Karma is quite simple. Live your life creating crap and you live with crap. Live your life creating good and you live with good.}

also anyone doing evil will have had evil done to them, making them do evil in return. Evil is contagious and it takes strength to break the chain.

I agree to a certain extent, but only in simple ways.

If one is bad-tempered to someone else, that is likely to make them bad-tempered too, and continue the chain.

However, "evil" is something entirely different and few receive retribution for genuine evil. Yes, a few serial killers are caught, but far more escape detection.

take the prison population for example. Most had alcoholic abusive parents/guardians and/or they have some form of mental condition. In both cases something made them who they are.

[F1fanatic]

_{Karma does exist. Will it return its reward on these a-holes? I think it is already is. As you said the guests at the ceremony were turned off by their actions. Do you think that if one of these a-holes turned up in an hour of need requesting help for themselves that their actions would be forgotten/ readily forgiven by those who witnessed it?}

_{Karma is quite simple. Live your life creating crap and you live with crap. Live your life creating good and you live with good.}

also anyone doing evil will have had evil done to them, making them do evil in return. Evil is contagious and it takes strength to break the chain.

I agree to a certain extent, but only in simple ways.

If one is bad-tempered to someone else, that is likely to make them bad-tempered too, and continue the chain.

However, "evil" is something entirely different and few receive retribution for genuine evil. Yes, a few serial killers are caught, but far more escape detection.

take the prison population for example. Most had alcoholic abusive parents/guardians and/or they have some form of mental condition. In both cases something made them who they are.

Are you saying the offspring 'pay' for the sins of the parents?

[bangkaew]

Travelman, you are very quick to dismiss the views of those with religious or spiritual beliefs. Then you say that you don’t know and don’t have all the answers, but that WE should give up OUR tripe ideas. Well, none of us have the answers, but that does not stop us having some sort of faith.

I therefore respectfully request whilst your views might differ substantially from mine and billions of others who share a belief in “something”, please respect our right to those beliefs and not try to belittle or humiliate those whose views are different to your own.

Thank you

agreed. Also it's interesting that cultures thousands of miles and years apart had the same beliefs. It doesn't take much open minded research to know that we are spiritual beings.

[KarenBravo]

^^^

Free will?

Edited December 31, 2011 by KarenBravo

[Kwasaki]

Lot of different answers, I didn't think that " Karma " belonged exclusively to religion, to me it's a state of mind of a person at any one time, controlling you actions or thoughts.

[bangkaew]

Are you saying the offspring 'pay' for the sins of the parents?

of course not! That their behaviour can be explained. Nothing to do with karma.

[Moonrakers]

Karma: Just more religious mumbo jumbo that is applied very selectively whenever it suits.

Somebody does something bad and something bad happens to them back = must be karma

Somebody does something bad and they live the rest of their lives happy as Larry = Errrm, ahh, errrrr.

It's nonsense.

[F1fanatic]

Travelman, you are very quick to dismiss the views of those with religious or spiritual beliefs. Then you say that you don’t know and don’t have all the answers, but that WE should give up OUR tripe ideas. Well, none of us have the answers, but that does not stop us having some sort of faith.

I therefore respectfully request whilst your views might differ substantially from mine and billions of others who share a belief in “something”, please respect our right to those beliefs and not try to belittle or humiliate those whose views are different to your own.

Thank you

agreed. Also it's interesting that cultures thousands of miles and years apart had the same beliefs. It doesn't take much open minded research to know that we are spiritual beings.

I'm not convinced. It seems to me that we like to think we are "spiritual beings" - when in fact we are just another animal in the animal kingdom.

Albeit one that has been dangerous enough to make us 'top of the tree'.

[F1fanatic]

Lot of different answers, I didn't think that " Karma " belonged exclusively to religion, to me it's a state of mind of a person at any one time, controlling you actions or thoughts.

I think that's 'conscience'. Most have one, a few do not.

[bangkaew]

Karma: Just more religious mumbo jumbo that is applied very selectively whenever it suits.

Somebody does something bad and something bad happens to them back = must be karma

Somebody does something bad and they live the rest of their lives happy as Larry = Errrm, ahh, errrrr.

It's nonsense.

always chosen on some level

[kropotkin]

Karma: Just more religious mumbo jumbo that is applied very selectively whenever it suits.

Somebody does something bad and something bad happens to them back = must be karma

Somebody does something bad and they live the rest of their lives happy as Larry = Errrm, ahh, errrrr.

It's nonsense.

Sure.

But there are different kinds.

Have you tried the karma sutra yet?

[bangkaew]

Travelman, you are very quick to dismiss the views of those with religious or spiritual beliefs. Then you say that you don’t know and don’t have all the answers, but that WE should give up OUR tripe ideas. Well, none of us have the answers, but that does not stop us having some sort of faith.

I therefore respectfully request whilst your views might differ substantially from mine and billions of others who share a belief in “something”, please respect our right to those beliefs and not try to belittle or humiliate those whose views are different to your own.

Thank you

agreed. Also it's interesting that cultures thousands of miles and years apart had the same beliefs. It doesn't take much open minded research to know that we are spiritual beings.

I'm not convinced. It seems to me that we like to think we are "spiritual beings" - when in fact we are just another animal in the animal kingdom.

Albeit one that has been dangerous enough to make us 'top of the tree'.

who's to say animals are not spiritual beings?

[KarenBravo]

who's to say animals are not spiritual beings?

Where do you draw the line?

Dogs?

Rats?

Insects?

Amoeba?

Germs?

Viruses?

[Moonrakers]

Karma: Just more religious mumbo jumbo that is applied very selectively whenever it suits.

Somebody does something bad and something bad happens to them back = must be karma

Somebody does something bad and they live the rest of their lives happy as Larry = Errrm, ahh, errrrr.

It's nonsense.

always chosen on some level

So what's the point in worrying about it then?

If whether or not you have to 'pay' karma is 'chosen' on some level then it sort of defeats the point, doesn't it?

Edited December 31, 2011 by Moonrakers

[F1fanatic]

who's to say animals are not spiritual beings?

Where do you draw the line?

Dogs?

Rats?

Insects?

Amoeba?

Germs?

Viruses?

We are unlikely to ever know what other animals 'think' but, they certainly cause less harm to our planet than us...

[kropotkin]

who's to say animals are not spiritual beings?

Where do you draw the line?

Dogs?

Rats?

Insects?

Amoeba?

Germs?

Viruses?

We are unlikely to ever know what other animals 'think' but, they certainly cause less harm to our planet than us...

Mosquitos cause more harm to me than i would ever want to cause to them.

I hope karma will get them, but meanwhile i use coils.

[F1fanatic]

who's to say animals are not spiritual beings?

Where do you draw the line?

Dogs?

Rats?

Insects?

Amoeba?

Germs?

Viruses?

We are unlikely to ever know what other animals 'think' but, they certainly cause less harm to our planet than us...

Mosquitos cause more harm to me than i would ever want to cause to them.

I hope karma will get them, but meanwhile i use coils.

You don't kill mossies that land on you?! I'm impressed!

[ludditeman]

Who cares what happened to a dog?

Not me.

[travelmann]

Travelman, you are very quick to dismiss the views of those with religious or spiritual beliefs. Then you say that you don’t know and don’t have all the answers, but that WE should give up OUR tripe ideas. Well, none of us have the answers, but that does not stop us having some sort of faith.

I therefore respectfully request whilst your views might differ substantially from mine and billions of others who share a belief in “something”, please respect our right to those beliefs and not try to belittle or humiliate those whose views are different to your own.

Thank you

Ok lets leave it at "belief" and shelve it under "fantasy" because thats all it is, unfortunately yours and others beliefs run the world not common sense

[travelmann]

who's to say animals are not spiritual beings?

Where do you draw the line?

Dogs?

Rats?

Insects?

Amoeba?

Germs?

Viruses?

Exactly its all ridiculous.