Catholic Wedding In Thailand - Is It 'Legal' For A Visa Application

[lazysceptic]

I m Australian and my girl is a Filipina living in Bangkok.

While in BKK last week we spoke with a catholic priest who told us the wedding would be legally recognized, but some googling makes it appear that the marriage also needs to be registered with the Thai govt as well.

I will contact the embassy when I get home next week, but In the interim it would be nice if someone in the know could confirm if the priest is right or wrong in this respect.

Thanks

[7by7]

For the marriage to be legal under Thai law it must be registered at an ampur.

I don't know for sure, but am 99.9% sure that the Australian government would not recognise the marriage unless it was legal in the country where it took place, i.e. Thailand.

There are certain formalities a foreigner has to follow before they can legally marry in Thailand: signing an affirmation of freedom to marry at your embassy and having it legalised by the Thai MFA. See the Australian embassy for details of their procedure and fees for you and the Philippine embassy for her.

[sweeneytodds]

i also had a catholic wedding,and the priest is correct.

Even in your own country you have to sign the legal document separately, its just done on the same day, the church does it for you.

The legal document with the thai government, is a joke ,dont take it as a big day.You go to the local government office,and they speak thai only and tell you to sign a paper, and thats it.

Thats what happened to me.

When you have a catholic wedding here in thailand, the priest insists its in the church, and not on the beach.

[sweeneytodds]

A catholic marriage document, is not a legal document, that is the law all round the world

[sweeneytodds]

sorry i read the original post wrong

You do need to register it at your local government office as well as the catholic ceremony

[Theo007]

Some Anglican and Protestant clergy will perform marriages in resorts.

[Maestro]

I don't know how it is in Thailand, but generally the Catholic church won't marry you unless you show evidence of you prior civil wedding.

[lazysceptic]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I got a response from DFAT and they confirm what you have said - I have researched the procedure and will take care of things well in advance.

One other query - I read on a forum somewhere that you can have an official from a district office actually attend your wedding for the purpose of certifying the civil union for a fee - does anyone know any more about this? it would be nice to have both taken care of on the same day without too much extra things to worry about.

[IMA_FARANG]

I'm certainly not an expert on this, but since she is a Fillipina and you are an Aussie...I don't see why a Thai ampur comes into the question. If one of you was Thai, that would be a different matter.

But I guess the marriage, if performed here in Thailand, should be registered with both your respective countries...just to establish the nationality of any possible children later.

[7by7]

An ampur comes into the question because they are marrying in Thailand; so to be a legal marriage it has to be registered at an ampur; that neither partner is Thai does not change that.

If the marriage is not legal in the country where it took place then it is almost certainly not legal anywhere else.

Whether they also need to register the marriage with their respective embassies depends on the regulations of the country concerned. I don't know about either Australia or the Philippines, but for the UK you not only don't need to register a Thai marriage at the British embassy; you actually can't!

[Naam]

A catholic marriage document, is not a legal document, that is the law all round the world

i could name at least two dozen countries where a catholic wedding is legal and the relevant document is accepted not only in these countries but in other countries too. a number of countries accept the legality of a catholic or any religious wedding ceremony if the marriage is legal in the country in which said ceremony was performed.

[Maestro]

I agree with Naam. In some countries, eg Spain and probably some Latin American countries, the government has authorised the churches to act simultaneously as civil marriage registrars, ie in this matter there is no separation between the church and the state.

This is how it works in Spain, for example:

Spanish law recognizes religious marriages without a second, civil ceremony. For a religious ceremony, couples first need authorization from the civil authorities, obtained by presenting the requirements described above. Each religious denomination may have separate documentary requirements.

Source: http://travel.state....enship_763.html

[Onnutrd]

I don't want to be a bearer of bad news, but has anyone here realised that the Catholic Church is actually universal. It's in pretty much evey country, even where it's not wanted you'll see its spirals soaring into the sky. To say that a marriage in a Catholic Church is not valid unless the government recognises is not true, the government has nothing to do with marriages. It's a solely religious matter ('civil unions' aside). Often you'll find that governments will recognise marriages where the Church does not (same sex, de-facto, civil marriage), so if you can satisfy the Church's matter on marriage then you'll pretty much set.

A Catholic wedding can only take place in a Catholic Church, and since you're fiance is a Filipino (I'm taking a good guess that she's Catholic too) then I guess she too would'nt want a protestant-anglican one. There are a number of Catholic Churches in BKK, and since the Catholic Church also has an embassy located in bkk (The Holy See) at Lumpini, you may wish to direct any legal matters with them (although I don't think it's at all necessary). A priest should suffice, otherwise speak to the pastor of the church. Assumption Cathedral seems like a nice place to have a wedding.

[7by7]

The Catholic church may recognise a marriage celebrated in one of their churches by one of their priests; but this does not mean that anyone else will!

Whether a marriage is a legal marriage depends on the law of the country where it took place. In Thailand the marriage will only be legal if it is registered at an ampur. Marrying in a Catholic church and then registering the marriage at the Holy See's embassy wont change this.

Even Buddhist marriages are not legal marriages in Thailand unless the couple have also registered their marriage at an ampur.

[Naam]

I don't want to be a bearer of bad news, but has anyone here realised that the Catholic Church is actually universal. It's in pretty much evey country, even where it's not wanted you'll see its spirals soaring into the sky. To say that a marriage in a Catholic Church is not valid unless the government recognises is not true, the government has nothing to do with marriages. It's a solely religious matter ('civil unions' aside). Often you'll find that governments will recognise marriages where the Church does not (same sex, de-facto, civil marriage), so if you can satisfy the Church's matter on marriage then you'll pretty much set.

A Catholic wedding can only take place in a Catholic Church, and since you're fiance is a Filipino (I'm taking a good guess that she's Catholic too) then I guess she too would'nt want a protestant-anglican one. There are a number of Catholic Churches in BKK, and since the Catholic Church also has an embassy located in bkk (The Holy See) at Lumpini, you may wish to direct any legal matters with them (although I don't think it's at all necessary). A priest should suffice, otherwise speak to the pastor of the church. Assumption Cathedral seems like a nice place to have a wedding.

congratulations for demonstrating that you possess a wealth of "no idea"

[Onnutrd]

The Catholic church may recognise a marriage celebrated in one of their churches by one of their priests; but this does not mean that anyone else will!

Whether a marriage is a legal marriage depends on the law of the country where it took place. In Thailand the marriage will only be legal if it is registered at an ampur. Marrying in a Catholic church and then registering the marriage at the Holy See's embassy wont change this.

Even Buddhist marriages are not legal marriages in Thailand unless the couple have also registered their marriage at an ampur.

I was'nt saying it needs to be registered at the Holy See's embassy, you're right that it does'nt change anything. But they can certainly provide the legal means for showing whether it will be recognised legal by the church. Let's not forget there are legalities with Church law aswell as that of the secular society.

For example, it being registered at an ampur does not mean that it's recognised legally by the church either. Moreso a buddhist marriage is'nt entirely recognised by the church to that point either. It probably depends on the diocese.

The Catholic Church will always recognise a marriage celebrated by their priests within their diocese, having it outside a church and not on Holy ground might be border line.

What's missing in this conversation is that it will be recognised by the Thai government, as the priest had said it would be so. Why would he lie? If he does'nt know then he would have said otherwise.

[7by7]

The priest is wrong. The Pope may be considered infallible by his followers, but his subordinates obviously aren't.

The marriage is taking place in Thailand and will only be recognised by the Thai government if it has been registered at an ampur. If it is not recognised by the Thai government then it almost certainly wont be recognised by any other one either.

Whether the Catholic church recognises it or not is irrelevant for the purpose of obtaining a spouse visa. It is the Australian government who issue visas for Australia, not the Catholic church. If the Australian government doesn't recognise the marriage, no spouse visa.

What has the Catholic church do with a Buddhist wedding? Nothing.

NB.

As the OP has stated in post #8 that he has confirmed with the Australian authorities that they do require an ampur registration and this topic has now moved on to general discussion about marriage in Thailand; I'm moving it to the Marraige forum.

[lazysceptic]

Thanks for all the replies - as has been mentioned, I need the marriage officially recognised by our respective governments - hence the need to register it at a district office.

Now, a couple more questions relating to the registration - please only answer if you have a good knowledge of the process ... too many 'experts' on the internet who think a simple google or their own innate 'knowledge' is all that is needed.

I am aware of all the steps to register at the khet (paperwork, translations, authentication), but I have heard that you can pay a fee and have an official attend your ceremony where the paperwork can be done, saving a trip ti the khet after the ceremony.

1. Does anyone know how much this will cost (I am aware there is a fee payable to the official and transport needs to be provided)

2. Is it necessary for us to both attend the khet in person or can I submit all the paperwork on my own (the girlfriend can't get any time off from work prior to the wedding)

[Mario2008]

1. i don't know, but shouldn't be much more than 200 baht or something.

2. No, you both sign the wedding register in front of witnesses. There is no prior work to be done or paperwork to deliver, you just sign up at the amphur or khet and get married. Not sure if that also goes if the official will attend at another place. I guess than they need the details in order to properly prepare and that only the presence of both is required when the wedding register is officially signed.