British Citizenship

[wayned]

Thanks again,

I read the info on General Register Office's website and did not see any mention of a "long form birth certificate", maybe they are one in the same. I sent them an e-mail yesterday asking them that since he was no longer living, would they issue the certificate to me, or his widow and what proof, if any, was required. The cost is only 9.25GBPs.

I also understand your statement regarding the Home Office's possible reluctance in this matter which is compounded by the boy's current disinterest in the importance of this for his furure. He hasn't realized yet there is no longer anyone there to grease his palm everytime he sticks it out and he has not been accepted by the widow's Thai family, even though he lives nextdoor. I will continue to try until I reach the end of my pateince and will PM you or prakhonchai nick if I hit a roadblock.

Thanks again for everybody's help..

[paully]

A lot depends upon the ties the applicant has with the UK. Were his father still alive then I think it would be granted, but as his father is dead, his paternal relatives seem uninterested in him and he lives in Thailand, I don't think it will be so straightforward.

Seconded, I feel it will be very difficult - but not impossible.

[Soutpeel]

Thanks again,

I read the info on General Register Office's website and did not see any mention of a "long form birth certificate", maybe they are one in the same. I sent them an e-mail yesterday asking them that since he was no longer living, would they issue the certificate to me, or his widow and what proof, if any, was required. The cost is only 9.25GBPs.

There are 2 versions of a British birth certificate on the "short" form version, which is a square piece of paper and if memory serves just had the name, registration number, DOB and think the hospital....the long form version, has a lot more detail...father/ mothers details etc etc...

You will need to ask specfically for the long form version.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Soutpeel

[ludditeman]

Thanks again,

I read the info on General Register Office's website and did not see any mention of a "long form birth certificate", maybe they are one in the same. I sent them an e-mail yesterday asking them that since he was no longer living, would they issue the certificate to me, or his widow and what proof, if any, was required. The cost is only 9.25GBPs.

There are 2 versions of a British birth certificate on the "short" form version, which is a square piece of paper and if memory serves just had the name, registration number, DOB and think the hospital....the long form version, has a lot more detail...father/ mothers details etc etc...

You will need to ask specfically for the long form version.

You can't buy the short-form, this is only issued at birth

Which is why the GRO don't mention it, they only sell the full birth certificates.

[wayned]

After reviewing the 16 page MN1 form and the 35 page instruction manual it is becoming readily apparent that it will not happen unless his half brother and sister in the UK get involved. In addition to his father's birth certificate, he needs, from page 29 of the instructions, "British grandparents birth certificate, registration or naturalization certificate or passport" and "Grandparents marriage certificate". That's not gioing to happen unless they get involved. In addition, at the current excange rate, the non-refudable application fee is over 30,000 baht.

Thanks again for all of the info.

[ludditeman]

After reviewing the 16 page MN1 form and the 35 page instruction manual it is becoming readily apparent that it will not happen unless his half brother and sister in the UK get involved. In addition to his father's birth certificate, he needs, from page 29 of the instructions, "British grandparents birth certificate, registration or naturalization certificate or passport" and "Grandparents marriage certificate". That's not gioing to happen unless they get involved. In addition, at the current excange rate, the non-refudable application fee is over 30,000 baht.

Thanks again for all of the info.

He only needs grandparents Birth Cert. if his father was born outside the UK.

The cost for the kids passport application is about 7,500bht.

[wayned]

He is not applying for a British passport, he is requesting that he be granted British citizenship, which he does not currently have, by birth since his father was British. He must file form mn1. The filing fee is 540GBP and the ceremony fee is 80GBP = 620GBP. At the current exchange rate of 48.7, that is 30,194 baht- non refundable.

The instructions for filing form mn1, documentation that must be submitted with the application, page 29, are as follows:

Child born abroad to British citizen parents

• Child’s birth certificate showing the parents’ names

• Parents’ marriage certificate (if the father is a British citizen)

• British parent’s birth certificate or passport

• British grandparent’s birth certificate, registration or naturalisation certificate or passport

• Grandparents’ marriage certificate

• Evidence of residence

as you can see it requires what I had previously posted.

Edited January 28, 2012 by wayned

[ludditeman]

@Wayne

If his father was British, then he is British, no need to apply for citizenship, he already has it.

All he needs to apply for is a Passport. For a passport, his fathers BC, his BC (translated to English)

His only problem is his father can't sign the passport application!

(I got a passport for my kid 3 months ago, no applying for citizenship)

Edited January 28, 2012 by ludditeman

[wayned]

It seems that you, prakhonchai nick, 7x7 and the documents that I have read are in disagreement. From what I have read and am being told he is not a British citizen just because his father was. He has to a[[;y for citizenship throygh the Home office. If he was born in England, the circumstances would be different.

I'm American, but an American born to an American father in a foreign country out of wedlock is not automatically a US citizen . He/she must meet certain requirementa and apply for it before the 18th birthday.

Edited January 28, 2012 by wayned

[Soutpeel]

@Wayne

If his father was British, then he is British, no need to apply for citizenship, he already has it.

All he needs to apply for is a Passport. For a passport, his fathers BC, his BC (translated to English)

His only problem is his father can't sign the passport application!

(I got a passport for my kid 3 months ago, no applying for citizenship)

No he is not, he may be entitled to citizenship....the parents where not legally married and the child was born before 2006 per below, and the parents were never subsequently married and I would hazard a guess and say the birth was never registered either at the BE.

An unmarried father cannot pass on British citizenship automatically in the case of children born before 1 July 2006. Although, if the parents marry subsequent to the birth, the child normally will become a British citizen at that point if legitimated by the marriage and the father was eligible to pass on British citizenship.

[Soutpeel]

I got a passport for my kid 3 months ago, no applying for citizenship

Are you legally married and assume the children were born after 2006 ?....then different rules

[PennyFarthing123]

My husband received his British Citizenship by descent just a year ago. He qualified by his mother who was born in England in 1905. Because it was his mother I am sure it was simpler as there was no question of parentage. The rules of citizenship by descent have changed in the last 18 months and has made it easier for some to now claim citizenship.

All he had to supply as I recall was his mothers birth certificate (which we ordered and received from the UK and his birth certificate from the US. Of course there was a lot of paperwork to fill out as well as the cost of filing.

At first it seemed like they were requesting a lot more information until I read more closely and discovered that it was a multiple choice depending upon the circumstances. We did not have to supply any of the information about relatives other than his mother as that is who he was qualifed to claim citizenship through.

I will say that the Embassy in Bangkok was very helpful when we went in for the interview and they looked over all our paperwork and made sure that it was adequate. It took less than 4 weeks for approval and then he applied for his British Passport and it arrived in about 3 weeks.

Hopefully this information is somewhat helpfull.

[Mario2008]

Wayned, in your OP you said "His name is on the birth certificate as the father."

Who is this "his"? the deceased or the real fahter of the child?

WIth the name of the deceased on the birth certificate as the fahter and the subsequent marriage, he will have legitimized the child as his under Thai law. (provided it was a legal maririage at the amphur) That will be recognized by the UK and the child could be a British national by way of birth.

[7by7]

Mario, the subsequent marriage was not to the boy's mother; it was to another woman, so the birth has not been legitimised.

The boy is not British because:-

1) He was born outside the UK. Had he been born inside the UK (or a qualifying territory) then he would be British.

2) He was born before 2006, his mother was not British and his parents were not married at the time of the birth and have not married since. Prior to 1 July 2006 only British mothers could automatically pass their British nationality to their children born abroad if the parents were not married. British fathers could only do so if they were married to the non British mother.

However, he could apply to be registered as British, but as already said, there is no guarantee that his application will be successful.

See Children born before 1 July 2006 whose father is a British citizen but not married to their mother - section 3(1) applications

[PattayaParent]

After reviewing the 16 page MN1 form and the 35 page instruction manual it is becoming readily apparent that it will not happen unless his half brother and sister in the UK get involved. In addition to his father's birth certificate, he needs, from page 29 of the instructions, "British grandparents birth certificate, registration or naturalization certificate or passport" and "Grandparents marriage certificate". That's not gioing to happen unless they get involved. In addition, at the current excange rate, the non-refudable application fee is over 30,000 baht.

Thanks again for all of the info.

Again the grandparents birth certificates and marriage certificate can be obtained from the registry of Births, Marriages and Deaths which Soutpeel said is in Liverpool but I think is located in London?

Edit: I note from the link that this is now called the General Register Office and indeed it is in Southport, which is near enough to Liverpool for Soutpeel I guess?

Edited January 30, 2012 by PattayaParent

[PattayaParent]

^it was Somerset House in London that I was thinking of but the records have now been moved to Southport.

These links might help you get the documents you want

http://www.vitalcertificates.co.uk/somerset-house-uk-certificates-9-w.asp

http://uktrace.co.uk/births_deaths_marriages.htm?gclid=CMzUy63s-a0CFSJU4godxkLfsA

[wayned]

I've gone through all of the regulations myself and what 7by7 said in post #44 is exactly how I see it!. Pattayaparent, I realzed that the birth certificates can be obtained from the GRO in Southport at a cost of 9.25GBP each, but the boy's half sister and brother who live in Europe do not want to get involved and we do not know the names of the grandparents let alone the district where they were born to even initiate a request. The widow is asking his half sister to help, but I'm not going to hold my breath. Even if we did get the birth certificates, the next stumbling block would be the over 30000 baht application fee, with no guarantee that the application would be successful.

I want to thank you for your help, but don't think any further discussion of this subject will be productive at this time.

[ludditeman]

I've gone through all of the regulations myself and what 7by7 said in post #44 is exactly how I see it!. Pattayaparent, I realzed that the birth certificates can be obtained from the GRO in Southport at a cost of 9.25GBP each, but the boy's half sister and brother who live in Europe do not want to get involved and we do not know the names of the grandparents let alone the district where they were born to even initiate a request. The widow is asking his half sister to help, but I'm not going to hold my breath. Even if we did get the birth certificates, the next stumbling block would be the over 30000 baht application fee, with no guarantee that the application would be successful.

I want to thank you for your help, but don't think any further discussion of this subject will be productive at this time.

The fathers Birth Certificate will have the names of both his grandparents and their address at the time of birth.

You just start with the father then work your way back. You then obtain their marriage certificate, which details their parents, etc. Census details can give their age and place of birth as you will know who they were and when and where they lived.

There are plenty of family history researchers for hire in the UK, they will find out all the info in a flash.

http://www.bmd-certificates.co.uk/

Edited January 31, 2012 by ludditeman

[wayned]

I guess that I have made a decision that it's time to "draw a line in the sand"!

I offered to help the widow in determining whether the son is, or can be a British citizen, which with all of your help I have. I think that her motivation is that someone has told her that she could get extra money for supporting him. But:

1. The boy really doesn't care

2. His family in the UK is not willing too help

3. His adopted Thai family isn't willing to help, he's not a blood relative.

Therfore, I'm not going to put my hands in my pocket to try to do something if nobody else gives a sh*t! There is a limit to what I am willing to do.

[7by7]

Indeed, you have done enough; if neither he nor his family are interested; up to them.

[Soutpeel]

Again the grandparents birth certificates and marriage certificate can be obtained from the registry of Births, Marriages and Deaths which Soutpeel said is in Liverpool but I think is located in London?

Edit: I note from the link that this is now called the General Register Office and indeed it is in Southport, which is near enough to Liverpool for Soutpeel I guess?

Close enough for me.... ....I suppose I could have been really technically correct and said Merseyside, but unless you are from the UK...you may struggle knowing were Merseyside is located or were Southport is.....Liverpool is know by everyone the world over......

I would also state a native from Liverpool would most certainly disagree that Southport is part of Liverpool and would call them Woollybacks...

[PattayaParent]

I've gone through all of the regulations myself and what 7by7 said in post #44 is exactly how I see it!. Pattayaparent, I realzed that the birth certificates can be obtained from the GRO in Southport at a cost of 9.25GBP each, but the boy's half sister and brother who live in Europe do not want to get involved and we do not know the names of the grandparents let alone the district where they were born to even initiate a request. The widow is asking his half sister to help, but I'm not going to hold my breath. Even if we did get the birth certificates, the next stumbling block would be the over 30000 baht application fee, with no guarantee that the application would be successful.

I want to thank you for your help, but don't think any further discussion of this subject will be productive at this time.

If you get the birth certificate of the father then it will have his mother and fathers name on it, then you can get their birth certificates. No need to bother with the district where they were born to initiate a request when you are already dealing with the General Records Office which hold all the records.

Edit: oh, I see ludditeman already pointed out the obvious.

Edited February 3, 2012 by PattayaParent