Death & The Buddha

[thaibebop]

What does Buddhism say about suicide? Also, what does Buddhism say, if anything, about how one dies?

In Christianity I know suicide is a sin and you'll be punished for it, but other kinds od death, so to speak, doesn't seem to matter. I am not looking for what any one sect of Buddhism says, just in general.

Thanks

[suegha]

thaibebop wrote "In Christianity I know suicide is a sin and you'll be punished for it"

I don't want to be pedantic, neither can I answer the buddist side of this query. However, where in Christianty does it say that suicide is a sin? Also where does it say that you'll be punished for it? I can't find any references to it in my bible so it must come from somewhere...

[chownah]

Generally speaking it is the intention that accompanies an act that determines how it will affect you in the future...and remember that in Buddhism it is generally believed that unless you are either awakened (enlightened) or nearly awakened then you will be reborn so things that happen at death are important. Committing suicide usually happens because someone wants to avoid something...I guess specifically they want to avoid life but it can be more complex than that....maybe they want to avoid hurting other people and the only way they can see to do that is suicide. Anyway if committing suicide can be said to be an act commited with the intent of avoiding something, then it is an act of aversion. In Buddhist thought, if you act from greed, aversion, or delusion then your mental actions will not be skillful...this means that you will be creating kamma that will have to be dealt with later. So, in general doing anything under the influence of greed, aversion, or delusion is counterproductive and doing anything without greed, aversion, or delusion will help you towards the goal of awakening. I want to stress here that greed, aversion, and delusion have greatly expanded meanings in Buddhist thought compared to their everyday usage. For example, desire is considered a form of greed....I think. So, I think that the bottom line is that committing suicide is counterproductive and will create kamma that will have to be dealt with later.

There was a case mentioned about an individual who lived back when the Buddha was alive and who was a follower of the Buddha and who was 'enlightened' (he was an arahant, not a Buddha) who committed suicide. It seems that the Buddha's comment on this was that it was done in a pure way and so was not a problem....evidentally his intentions were correct in performing the act but it seems that only an enlightened person would be able to commit suicide with proper intentions.

Other Buddhists may have other opinions about this.

Edited December 2, 2005 by chownah

[thaibebop]

thaibebop wrote "In Christianity I know suicide is a sin and you'll be punished for it"

I don't want to be pedantic, neither can I answer the buddist side of this query. However, where in Christianty does it say that suicide is a sin? Also where does it say that you'll be punished for it?  I can't find any references to it in my bible so it must come from somewhere...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's in there. I haven't read the Bible in awhile but I had to read parts of it for a class this semester and I read about suicide in there somewhere, but I can't remember where. So, keep looking you'll find it.

[thaibebop]

Generally speaking it is the intention that accompanies an act that determines how it will affect you in the future...and remember that in Buddhism it is generally believed that unless you are either awakened (enlightened) or nearly awakened then you will be reborn so things that happen at death are important.  Committing suicide usually happens because someone wants to avoid something...I guess specifically they want to avoid life but it can be more complex than that....maybe they want to avoid hurting other people and the only way they can see to do that is suicide.  Anyway if committing suicide can be said to be an act commited with the intent of avoiding something, then it is an act of aversion.  In Buddhist thought, if you act from greed, aversion, or delusion then your mental actions will not be skillful...this means that you will be creating kamma that will have to be dealt with later.  So, in general doing anything under the influence of greed, aversion, or delusion is counterproductive and doing anything without greed, aversion, or delusion will help you towards the goal of awakening.  I want to stress here that greed, aversion, and delusion have greatly expanded meanings in Buddhist thought compared to their everyday usage.  For example, desire is considered a form of greed....I think.  So, I think that the bottom line is that committing suicide is counterproductive and will create kamma that will have to be dealt with later. 

There was a case mentioned about an individual who lived back when the Buddha was alive and who was a follower of the Buddha and who was 'enlightened' (he was an arahant, not a Buddha) who committed suicide. It seems that the Buddha's comment on this was that it was done in a pure way and so was not a problem....evidentally his intentions were correct in performing the act but it seems that only an enlightened person would be able to commit suicide with proper intentions.

Other Buddhists may have other opinions about this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, Chownah!

[robitusson]

What does Buddhism say about suicide? Also, what does Buddhism say, if anything, about how one dies?

In Christianity I know suicide is a sin and you'll be punished for it, but other kinds od death, so to speak, doesn't seem to matter. I am not looking for what any one sect of Buddhism says, just in general.

Thanks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why are you asking? Everything ok?

[stone cold]

its not easy to come to this world as a human being, i mean as buddhism believes in past karma and reincarnation, i mean u can end up becoming an animal or any other form of low lifes depending on wat u have done. so commiting suicide is generally hugely discourage.

there is this belief that those who commit suicide out of aversion as wat chownah was saying will miss their turn for reincarnation to the next life for nine turns so more time in the person afterlife will be spent in hel_l.

general speaking if a person is jumping off the top of the building, the moment he jumps and when he is in the mid air, he WILL definitely regret...

like in the previous post, take care and make sure u r alrite, pal.

[robitusson]

I know this is supposed to about Thai buddhism but here's what Tibetan Lama Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche says about suicide...

"When a person commits suicide, the consciousness has no choice but to follow it's negative karma"

(from The Tibetan Book Of Living & Dying).

Not very cheery.

[camerata]

There was an episode in the life of the Buddha when a group of monks became depressed over contemplating death and committed suicide. The Buddha definitely thought they had done the wrong thing.

In general terms it's pretty easy to figure out. Practising dhamma is about seeing things as they really are, and accepting them as they are. Suicide is generally extreme aversion - not accepting life as it is.

[eddmun]

So where does Buddhism stand on the buddhist monks who set themselves on fire in portest around the time of the vietnam war? Is that classed as suicide, or is it accidental death (because they died during a protest)?

[thaibebop]

Thanks for the resposes everyone. I am okay and not suicidal. This is really just trying to learn more about Buddhism, althought it did come up in a conversation with my wife over money problems. I had said somewhat jokingly that I should off myself so she couold collect the life insurance and her and our daughter could live well back in Thailand. Of course she didn't find my sick sense of humor funny.

It just got me thinking though, because in all the Buddhist books I have read I haven't incountered beliefs as far as how one dies. I know that if you die with bad karma, ect; but does the manner in which you die have an affect? I kind of remember something about the Tibetean belief of the wheel of life and how suicide is treated there, but Zen doesn't seem to care one way or another (so many Zen Buddhists commited suicide) and I have no clue what Thai Buddhism says. So, I thought I would ask.

Eddmun brings up a good question, one I can't answer, but it reminds me that I was curious of more than just suicide. So, let me ask this.....

Does the manner in which one dies effect ones karma?

[chownah]

Does the manner in which one dies effect ones karma?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe the answer to this is that everything you do has karmic effect unless it is done with total lack of the hindrances which are greed, aversion, and delusion. Different Buddhists have different beliefs about what happens at death. All of the stories I have heard about arahants (enlightened people) who were talking about their impending death....they treated it as if it was no more important than anything else in life.

[camerata]

Does the manner in which one dies effect ones karma?

Yes. See the other topic called The Final Moment. I doubt you'll find much info about suicide and karma though. I assume those Vietnamese monks burnt themselves out of compassion for persecuted Buddhists in South Vietnam, not as an escape from life.

[thaibebop]

Thanks again, guys. I read the final moment thread and found some great info there. If you guys come across anything let me know.

[~G~]

Apart from Kamma issues, the human life is considered rare and precious, as it allows one to practice the Dhamma, make merit and work towards enlightenment and escape from samsara.