New Thai Minister Nalinee On US Blacklist

[webfact]

New Thai minister on US blacklist for Mugabe links

BANGKOK, January 19, 2012 (AFP) - Thailand's premier on Thursday defended her appointment of a cabinet minister who is on a US blacklist owing to alleged business links to Zimbabwe's President Robert Mugabe.

Nalinee Taveesin, named minister to the premier's office this week, had her assets frozen by the United States in 2008 on accusations that she was a "crony" providing financial and logistical support to the Mugabe regime.

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra insisted to reporters that Nalinee's appointment was "in line with the constitution".

Nalinee was described by the US Department of the Treasury in November 2008 as a businesswoman who facilitated a number of financial, real-estate, and gem-related transactions of behalf of Mugabe's wife Grace.

"Ironically, Nalinee Taveesin has participated in a number of initiatives on corruption and growth challenges in Africa and Southeast Asia while secretly supporting the kleptocratic practices of one of Africa's most corrupt regimes," a Treasury statement said at the time.

The action led to the freezing of Nalinee's assets within US jurisdiction and a ban from financial or commercial transactions with US citizens.

Nalinee, previously a Thai trade representative, told the Bangkok Post daily that she had known the Mugabes for more than a decade, but denied she had ever had a business relationship with them.

"I have never traded in gemstones," she was quoted as saying by the paper. "I have never brought diamonds in for sale. I am friends with the presidents of many countries. This (is) a case of guilt by association."

Chavanond Intarakomalyasut, a spokesman for the opposition Democrat Party, argued: "Even though the constitution does not ban ministers who are on a blacklist, the government should have morals".

The United States and the EU sanctions on Zimbabwe include travel bans and asset freezes on Mugabe and members of his inner circle, who are accused of seriously undermining democracy, human rights and the rule of law.

Wednesday's Thai cabinet reshuffle also promoted Nattawut Saikuar, a leader of the "Red Shirt" protest movement who faces terrorism charges, to the post of deputy agriculture minister, drawing further criticism from the opposition.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2012-01-19

[chooka]

"Ironically, Nalinee Taveesin has participated in a number of initiatives on corruption and growth challenges in Africa and Southeast Asia while secretly supporting the kleptocratic practices of one of Africa's most corrupt regimes," a Treasury statement said at the time."

Ummmmmmmmmm What can one say?

[scorecard]

Thaksin has purchased huge Platinum concessions in Zimbabwe, if it was all successfully mined, the value in the ground is estimated to be several trillion US dollars, as quoted in an article recently about his investments in Africa. It seems like a windfall, so why hasn't anyone else shown any interest? Because dealing with the Mugabe regime or business in that country is so heavily sanctioned and risky. Of course, business and democratic morals are two different things to him. What was Nalinee's involvement, if any? And if Robert Amsterdam thinks Abhisit is comparable to Mugabe he should go back to school, it's like comparing Thaksin to Hitler.

Do not rely on the Nation's insinuations as Mr. Amsterdam has said nothing of the sort. Did you read the actual statements fom Mr. Amsterdam? I doubt you did. Here are the original comments.

http://robertamsterd...thailand/?p=184

He said there were some similarities, particularly with the actions of PAD and the role of elites. One need not be a redshirt or a yellow shirt to understand that some of the arguments presented are not too far off the mark. Mr. Amsterdam did not claim Mr. Abhisit was a Mugabe, e.g. Thailand has no single Mugabe.

I think Mr. Amsterdam raised some valid points, and the Nation's autor, needs to brush up on his english reading comprehension skills.

G'kid, you are outrageous.

I read the link you provided.

1. Amsterdam is well known as a very scaly opportunist who is very clever at spinning situations to look like something else, and I suggest that not many Thais or members of this webboard would believe his versions of events.

2. Amsterdam's claims that the PAD are similar to the 'war veterans' is way off the truth and again I would use the word outrageuos. I'm guessing you would say that 'the airport sit-in / takeover' is a good example. (Not that I'm suggesting that the airport takeover was a good move, IMHO it was a poor decision on the part of the PAD.) Nowehere anywhere near the violence and thuggery of the 'war veterans' gangs.

3. Amsterdam's, again tries to use the spin word 'elites' to his scaly advantage. Those who think a litle will see through this smokescreen pretty quickly.

By the way G'kid, whats' your opinion of Amsterdam?

[DP25]

"Ironically, Nalinee Taveesin has participated in a number of initiatives on corruption and growth challenges in Africa and Southeast Asia while secretly supporting the kleptocratic practices of one of Africa's most corrupt regimes," a Treasury statement said at the time.

Standard operating procedure for this group. Publicly proclaim against corruption while privately stealing all you can, while using your propoganda network to spread misinformation and suing anyone for millions of dollars for 'defamation' when they expose your corruption.

[DieterBernhardKristiansen]

Does someone actually still give a sh*t about who and what is on one of the United States' blacklists? It looks like these days they've got a bone to pick with pretty much the entire world... I wonder how many of their own cronies are on their blacklists for dealing with terrorist and rogue regimes.

Nope. I think being on that list is a qualification.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

It just keeps getting better and better around here.... Almost nothing surprises any more...

But it's hardly a new thing, since the designation occurred more than 3 years ago... Maybe she just didn't care....

The news breaking public about this probably will make her eligible for some kind of higher level position in the government than the one she'd already been tabbed for.

[animatic]

"It was a misunderstanding on the part of the US." (A failure to understand something correctly.)

It's not Thailand's fault but that of the U.S administration? Maybe the U.S should start towing the Thai line and learn something about politics.

Not bashing the U.S so don't jump on me.

Yes, everyones fault but hers and her bosses.

Same old same old in Thailand.

But tells you how well their are vetting their cronies in this administration.

[geriatrickid]

Democrat MP Deems Nalinee's Appointment to Cabinet Inappropriate

The Democrat MP for Songkhla has questioned the appropriateness of including Nalinee Taveesin in the Yingluck 2 Cabinet, saying she is still on the United States blacklist over her alleged connections with a former Zimbabwean dictator.

Democrat Party MP for Songkhla, Sirichok Sopha, is questioning the appropriateness of the appointment of Nalinee Taveesin as the Prime Minister's Office Minister in the first cabinet reshuffle for the Yingluck Shinawatra government, saying she is still on the United States blacklist over her alleged business connections with former Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe.

Oddly enough, such concern does not extend to an accused murderer sitting in the Democrat caucus.

Outrage is indeed justified in this cas,e but the Democrats lost the moral higher ground when they did not remove the alleged murderer from their caucus.

And for the record so that there is no ambiguity, I believe that Nalinee Taveesin must not be appointed to any cabinet position until she clears her name. It is unacceptable that a representative of the government be mixed up in something like this. It is unacceptable and disgusting. The PM should show some backbone.

Edited January 19, 2012 by geriatrickid

[geriatrickid]

"It was a misunderstanding on the part of the US." (A failure to understand something correctly.)

It's not Thailand's fault but that of the U.S administration? Maybe the U.S should start towing the Thai line and learn something about politics.

Not bashing the U.S so don't jump on me.

Yes, everyones fault but hers and her bosses.

Same old same old in Thailand.

But tells you how well their are vetting their cronies in this administration.

I believe it is not even an issue of vetting, but is something much worse: A complete absence of moral integrity. It is a disease that knows no political bounds. You may tire of my referencing the accused murderer in the Democrat caucus, but surely you can agree it is not acceptable. Here we have a woman, who may not have been accused of murder, but she is accused of aiding and abetting a murderer.

This begs the question: Doesn't anyone have any integrity in this country?

[geriatrickid]

By the way G'kid, whats' your opinion of Amsterdam?

i think he is a man with a track record of fighting for human rights and looking at the big picture.

The incident involving the allegations with Nalinee Taveesin will most likely cause him to blow a gasket. Mr. Amsterdam defended a UN official who took on Mugabe and was then harassed by the UN as a result. Amsterdam took the case pro bono when many law firms would not go near it for business reasons. It's a rather famous case that arose from the mishandling of the cholera epidemic. There is no love for Mugabe from Mr. Amsterdam.

Mr. Amsterdam is held in high regard by several reputable human rights and development groups that are apolitical in nature. That tells me something. If Mr. Amsterdam had not taken on Thaksin, I doubt he would be the object of scorn for many farangs of TVF.

Edited January 19, 2012 by geriatrickid

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I believe it is not even an issue of vetting, but is something much worse: A complete absence of moral integrity. It is a disease that knows no political bounds. You may tire of my referencing the accused murderer in the Democrat caucus, but surely you can agree it is not acceptable. Here we have a woman, who may not have been accused of murder, but she is accused of aiding and abetting a murderer.

This begs the question: Doesn't anyone have any integrity in this country?

Somewhat to my surprise, I find myself in total agreement with your comments above..and that doesn't happen very often...

Issues of honesty, credibility, integrity and avoidance of corruption ought to be applied to everyone in government, regards of their political party or affiliation. And the consequences for those who fail to meet those standards ought to be the same likewise.

[theanimaster]

The Zimbabwe investment could be a sucker move, as the mine could be taken over by 'the government' at some point, either by the current slime or a future version.

Quite true, only a fool would invest in Zimbabwe the government can sieze all your assets at a whim and there is nothing you can do about it. I am sure there are many expats who could tell a story or 2 about this.

But who do you think is the bigger con man?

[TAWP]

/../

And if Robert Amsterdam thinks Abhisit is comparable to Mugabe he should go back to school, it's like comparing Thaksin to Hitler.

Do not rely on the Nation's insinuations as Mr. Amsterdam has said nothing of the sort.

/../

He said there were some similarities /../

Finding someone to be 'comparable to' is that not what someone is doing when someone says there are 'similarities'?

Alright, let's play your game.

I didn't say that Thaksin was Hitler and Red Shirt was the Brown Shirts, that intimitaded civilians that opposed the populistic regime.

I didn't compare Thaksin to Hitler nor Red Shirts to Brown Shirts.

I merely said there was some similarities in how they acted, thought and how history will see them.

That is all.

[ericthai]

And so criminals go free...? She was selling Blood Diamonds... many of them.... but whats a few diamonds between 2 old ladies....

I am not sure you fully understand what your supporting.

While the US government may decide based on what they know not to do business with someone.

That in no way should infringe on the personal rights of its FREE citizens to go where they want & while in other countries buy what

they want period.....If it is against the law in THAT country then let THAT country arrest them.

If it is against the law to bring it back into THIS country & caught then again arrest them.

But...........

What is even far worse in this case is the US is charging a person of another country with an infraction of what THEY deem

wrong. Then to top it off they will freeze assets held by her legally in American financial institutions over it?

I would think more & more who see this will soon consider safer institutions to keep their assets.

I do not know of many countries that dictate to citizens of the world/ other countries what they can or cannot do in the world.

As long as it is not a direct attack on the USA

I do know that our Constitutional Republic was not designed with that in mind.

I dont see where the US has any charges against her, they have her on a blacklist, meaning she is not allowed to conduct business with US companies or enter the US, reason she was put on the blacklist was a good one, she was dealing with an oppressive regime.

She was supporting a regime that was depressing it's people, so the US put her on a black list, this does not mean they are going to hunt her down and arrest her. As for your thinking the US should mind it's own business, So I guess everyone should just ignore what is going on and mind their own business and then things like what went on in Cambodia and still going on in several African nations just keep on keeping on? That is what you are suggesting? Nobody should help the people that are suffering there, right this is what you are saying? Only look out for ourselves..Maybe the US should stop all of it's aid programs too. Wars start the US stays out right? This is what you want?

[flying]

I dont see where the US has any charges against her, they have her on a blacklist, meaning she is not allowed to conduct business with US companies or enter the US, reason she was put on the blacklist was a good one, she was dealing with an oppressive regime.

She was supporting a regime that was depressing it's people, so the US put her on a black list, this does not mean they are going to hunt her down and arrest her. As for your thinking the US should mind it's own business, So I guess everyone should just ignore what is going on and mind their own business and then things like what went on in Cambodia and still going on in several African nations just keep on keeping on? That is what you are suggesting? Nobody should help the people that are suffering there, right this is what you are saying? Only look out for ourselves..Maybe the US should stop all of it's aid programs too. Wars start the US stays out right? This is what you want?

Do you realize how many oppressive regimes we ( the US ) have supported? How many we put into place? How many of the so called evil men were once the lap dogs of the US? It is only when they refused to kow tow at some point that suddenly they were deemed evil. Yet before that tolerated.

As for aid? Yes stop all financial aid...Humanitarian aid no problem.

But we need not give arms & financial aid to so many when we ourselves are on the verge of bankruptcy/default

To top it off those we give it to are many times creditors & what we *give* is not subtracted from what we owe....how is that with over 15 million on unemployment & twice as many more with no jobs or unemployment? Over 40 million on food assistance ???

Wars start & we stay out? Hell yes! Like our forefathers & those before us taught us.

read this for a great example......

http://www.fff.org/c...AdamsPolicy.asp

here is an excerpt..........As john Quincy Adams speaks on US Foreign Policy (1821)

She has abstained from interference in the concerns of others, even when conflict has been for principles to which she clings, as to the last vital drop that visits the heart

But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy.

She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all.

She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.

She will commend the general cause by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example.

She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom.

The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force....

She might become the dictatress of the world. She would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit....

.

Edited January 19, 2012 by flying

[thaimat]

Will the Bush family be blacklisted, and have their assets frozen for their business dealings with the Bin Laden family? I don't think so somehow. The usual double standards and hypocrisy from the government of The USA.

Sanctions against the Bush family should be just the beginning! But in the case of Zimbabwe, the United Nations have been trying to impose the very same sanctions against Mugabe's Zimbabwe for many years, always blocked by Russia and China. Australia started sanctions against Mugabe back in 2002, I think. Given Mugabe's history of genocidal rule, I think the US has done right to sanction, and blacklist any creep who is so greedy that they will do business with such a murderous devil. Is is so difficult to make money that one must do business with some of the most evil on the planet? Or are the people that do business with Mugabe just such poor business people that they can only make money by dealing with the world's scum? Hardly a good qualification for a country's trade ambassador, I would think.

[ToffeEFCpower]

Tell her to shave her head, become a monkess for a few months and all will be forgiven.

[Mitker]

Looks like she could be fully adopted by the Shin family.

She as the perfect profile.

[jpinx]

And so criminals go free...? She was selling Blood Diamonds... many of them.... but whats a few diamonds between 2 old ladies....

I am not sure you fully understand what your supporting.

While the US government may decide based on what they know not to do business with someone.

That in no way should infringe on the personal rights of its FREE citizens to go where they want & while in other countries buy what

they want period.....If it is against the law in THAT country then let THAT country arrest them.

If it is against the law to bring it back into THIS country & caught then again arrest them.

But...........

What is even far worse in this case is the US is charging a person of another country with an infraction of what THEY deem

wrong. Then to top it off they will freeze assets held by her legally in American financial institutions over it?

I would think more & more who see this will soon consider safer institutions to keep their assets.

I do not know of many countries that dictate to citizens of the world/ other countries what they can or cannot do in the world.

As long as it is not a direct attack on the USA

I do know that our Constitutional Republic was not designed with that in mind.

I dont see where the US has any charges against her, they have her on a blacklist, meaning she is not allowed to conduct business with US companies or enter the US, reason she was put on the blacklist was a good one, she was dealing with an oppressive regime.

She was supporting a regime that was depressing it's people, so the US put her on a black list, this does not mean they are going to hunt her down and arrest her. As for your thinking the US should mind it's own business, So I guess everyone should just ignore what is going on and mind their own business and then things like what went on in Cambodia and still going on in several African nations just keep on keeping on? That is what you are suggesting? Nobody should help the people that are suffering there, right this is what you are saying? Only look out for ourselves..Maybe the US should stop all of it's aid programs too. Wars start the US stays out right? This is what you want?

YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tanaka]

The US should return to what its forefathers preached/taught

Keep their long nose out of others business & do not go abroad in search of monsters.

Sanctions like those against Cuba for instance are silly & long overdue for a change.

US citizens not allowed to buy some product because their government has a decades old beef

with someone is silly.

Now we extend that silliness to folks who are not even US citizens & blacklist them?

insanity has no limits in these cases.

Before the usual suspects chime in with anti-USA rhetoric........

Let me say I am as patriotic a person as you will find.

I live in the USA & am proud of our heritage.

I like the fact we are a Constitutional Republic & hope we keep it

that way by protecting what out founders laid out.

These days it is changing fast as we slip down a slippery slope

If you would stand up and look around you, you would notice that the US and the world around us, is very different from when the Constitution was written.

[JulesMad]

The US should have a list for everyone who is NOT on one of their blacklists. This is a lot easier to maintain as almost everybody will be on one (or more) of their blacklists. We can call this list the white-list; it is probably a very small list

But hey, mai pen rai, they are on my blacklist

[scorecard]

Democrat MP Deems Nalinee's Appointment to Cabinet Inappropriate

The Democrat MP for Songkhla has questioned the appropriateness of including Nalinee Taveesin in the Yingluck 2 Cabinet, saying she is still on the United States blacklist over her alleged connections with a former Zimbabwean dictator.

Democrat Party MP for Songkhla, Sirichok Sopha, is questioning the appropriateness of the appointment of Nalinee Taveesin as the Prime Minister's Office Minister in the first cabinet reshuffle for the Yingluck Shinawatra government, saying she is still on the United States blacklist over her alleged business connections with former Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe.

Oddly enough, such concern does not extend to an accused murderer sitting in the Democrat caucus.

Outrage is indeed justified in this cas,e but the Democrats lost the moral higher ground when they did not remove the alleged murderer from their caucus.

And for the record so that there is no ambiguity, I believe that Nalinee Taveesin must not be appointed to any cabinet position until she clears her name. It is unacceptable that a representative of the government be mixed up in something like this. It is unacceptable and disgusting. The PM should show some backbone.

So should the red shirt man also be unacceptable for a cabinet post?

Edited January 19, 2012 by scorecard

[wintermute]

I don't see anything objectionable with this underworld crime figure being on a blacklist. The E.U. bans similar shady individuals so the crybaby whiners and bandwagon USA haters can get off the pram at the next elementary school stop so the grown ups can talk. The fact of the matter is Thailand is full of underworld crime figures and mafia types who are involved in all sorts of shady schemes abroad. The country is a well known crossroads for this sort of activity.

[flying]

If you would stand up and look around you, you would notice that the US and the world around us, is very different from when the Constitution was written.

The principles that America was built on is what made us great.

I agree the US is very different & hopefully we can return to that which we once expounded.

The world is not different in many ways & John Quincy Adams speech on Foreign Policy in 1821

is more valid today

http://www.fff.org/c...AdamsPolicy.asp

Edited January 19, 2012 by flying

[flying]

haters can get off the pram at the next elementary school stop so the grown ups can talk.

You bring up an interesting point.

I live in the USA & am as much a patriot in the true sense of the word as you will find.

But I often wonder while reading the slamming Thailand takes here on this forum.

I wonder if most of these folks doing the slamming live in Thailand?

If so what is stopping them from getting off the pram as you say?

Surely they can do better?

I only visit 3 months a year but I visit because I like it.

I have no problem with what they do with *their* country.

But I do wonder about the haters as you call them

[bigbamboo]

Might have been a better idea to appoint someone a trade minister who was acceptable to all nations. Maybe the Thai government feels trade with the US will not be so important as they will likely be buying their hom mali rice from VietNam from now on? And on the plus side her Zimbabwean connections could help any Thais who wish to develop business interests there.

[wintermute]

Might have been a better idea to appoint someone a trade minister who was acceptable to all nations. Maybe the Thai government feels trade with the US will not be so important as they will likely be buying their hom mali rice from VietNam from now on? And on the plus side her Zimbabwean connections could help any Thais who wish to develop business interests there.

It's amazing how they rationalize having mafia like figures at all levels of the government. I wonder how many Thai politicians are simultaneously on Interpol and U.S. blacklists. I bet it would be a pretty percentage.

[Dave9000]

GW Bush deals in oil with the Bin Laden family and becomes President. Taveesin deals with Mugabe, yet she, apparently, is the arse. Brilliant!!

[Lotusbluete]

Democrat MP Deems Nalinee's Appointment to Cabinet Inappropriate

The Democrat MP for Songkhla has questioned the appropriateness of including Nalinee Taveesin in the Yingluck 2 Cabinet, saying she is still on the United States blacklist over her alleged connections with a former Zimbabwean dictator.

Democrat Party MP for Songkhla, Sirichok Sopha, is questioning the appropriateness of the appointment of Nalinee Taveesin as the Prime Minister's Office Minister in the first cabinet reshuffle for the Yingluck Shinawatra government, saying she is still on the United States blacklist over her alleged business connections with former Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe.

Nalinee was blacklisted by the U.S. authorities in 2008. Sirichok said Nalinee's appointment is not unlawful, but it is inappropriate because her links to the Zimbabwean dictator conflict with the Pheu Thai Party's and the red-shirt group's stance to promote democracy.

Meanwhile, the incoming minister claimed the incident was a misunderstanding, adding that her lawyer said it was merely an allegation and there was no need to pursue further legal action.

She admitted to being acquainted with Mugabe because her work has allowed her to meet with many international political figures.

However, Nalinee denied having done business with him as alleged by some, and said the kind of conflicts the African dictator was involved in is not her business.

Nalinee reiterated that she has fulfilled the qualifications set out by the Constitution, since she was appointed as a trade envoy, and said the issue was brought up to discredit her.

-- Tan Network 2012-01-19

1. I do not understand why TAN Network calls Mugabe the “former” dictator. Is Ian Smith back (from the grave!)? As far as I know Mugabe is still president of the then Rhodesia and he is still living in the then city of Salisbury.

2. I think the US has every right to put somebody on a blacklist. A.) The US is an independent state and has their absolute right to do so, and B.) I am quite sure the US does not put somebody on a black list just for nothing. I can imagine that their have their reasons for it

3. I think on the other hand that also Thailand is an independent state and has the absolute right to name anybody it whishes as minister. I am sure Mrs. Nalinee can travel to many, many countries in this world like Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia etc without facing any difficulties

4. If Mrs. Nalinee was put on a blacklist already in 2008 and if it is all a “misunderstanding” as she claims, why has she not cleared her name in the past 4 years? Very strange indeed.

And to all those who criticize the US for their sanctions: What other should the US do against this undemocratic regime of Mugabe? Invade like in Iraq?

[xthAi76s]

The US should return to what its forefathers preached/taught

Keep their long nose out of others business & do not go abroad in search of monsters.

Sanctions like those against Cuba for instance are silly & long overdue for a change.

US citizens not allowed to buy some product because their government has a decades old beef

with someone is silly.

Now we extend that silliness to folks who are not even US citizens & blacklist them?

insanity has no limits in these cases.

Before the usual suspects chime in with anti-USA rhetoric........

Let me say I am as patriotic a person as you will find.

I live in the USA & am proud of our heritage.

I like the fact we are a Constitutional Republic & hope we keep it

that way by protecting what out founders laid out.

These days it is changing fast as we slip down a slippery slope

Our founders stole an entire country from natives who were already inhabiting it. We shouldn't be so naive to think that the world would be better if the US kept its 'nose out of other countries' business'. Someone will fill the role as it's a function of human nature -- not nationality or national character. You can't name a strong 'empire' at any point in history which did not exert its influence on those it could.