New Evidence About The Killing Of Red-Shirt 'Seh Daeng'

[metisdead]

Posts using derogatory nicknames or intentional misspelling of people’s names will be deleted. If you don’t want your post to be deleted, spell people’s names correctly.

[z12]

The thing that get me about this, is if it was some kind of conspiracy perpetrated by the Red Shirts in order to have a martyr, or as an excuse to armed combat, or as evidence after of the fact, or all of the above, then it could not have been done more incompetantly. If a cop wants to fit you up, he puts drugs in your draw and finds them during a search, he doesn't leave them under a tree outside and suggest that they must be yours because you had something to gain from them. What I mean is, why was it not made obvious it was a soldier that did it - a video of a guy in fatigues or a group of soldiers on a roof top witha sniper rifle, or whatever - not exactly hard to make a low quality phone movie showing just that (videod at any time and with sympathisers dressed up) - then it would lend itself nicely and make world news - as it stands it is a rumour no more than the same rumours as to JFK's assassination etc (even more vague as at least then they had a shooter even if some believe it was not him).

So, what does this leave? It really was the Army or PAD as rumoured? It was just someone living nearby that had had enough? That it was just an unlucky random shot that looks like an assissination given the context and apparant expert aim? If they arrested any of the above tomorrow, would you believe it was a good arrest or just a fit up? File it under "no one knows or no one's telling" and move on - I can, of course, understand why his daughter will not - and I wish her luck (which is probably to wish her no success as that may well be ill-luck!)

All is answered in this link: http://www.atimes.co...a/LE29Ae02.html

Police, active and inactive military made up the ranks of the red shirts and the black shirts.

And some of them wore their military camouflage and had the skills to easily shoot this guy.

Edited January 22, 2012 by z12

[gemini81]

Soylentgreen: The Shinawatra family IS thai-chinese elite.

[gemini81]

Great articles z12! Thanks for the links.

[soylentgreen]

Soylentgreen: The Shinawatra family IS thai-chinese elite.

I know that Thaksin is Thai Chinese as is Abhisit, but the Read shirt popular movement is certainly not.

OI course, the Thai-Chinese elites here will attempt to manipulate it to their own ends as the Zionists do in the USA and the UK.

However, I believe that from the Red shirt grass roots movement a new paradigm of social justice and democracy will emerge to regenerate Thailand and springboard it into a fairer and more inclusive society.

[tlansford]

The thing that get me about this, is if it was some kind of conspiracy perpetrated by the Red Shirts in order to have a martyr, or as an excuse to armed combat, or as evidence after of the fact, or all of the above, then it could not have been done more incompetantly. If a cop wants to fit you up, he puts drugs in your draw and finds them during a search, he doesn't leave them under a tree outside and suggest that they must be yours because you had something to gain from them. What I mean is, why was it not made obvious it was a soldier that did it - a video of a guy in fatigues or a group of soldiers on a roof top witha sniper rifle, or whatever - not exactly hard to make a low quality phone movie showing just that (videod at any time and with sympathisers dressed up) - then it would lend itself nicely and make world news - as it stands it is a rumour no more than the same rumours as to JFK's assassination etc (even more vague as at least then they had a shooter even if some believe it was not him).

So, what does this leave? It really was the Army or PAD as rumoured? It was just someone living nearby that had had enough? That it was just an unlucky random shot that looks like an assissination given the context and apparant expert aim? If they arrested any of the above tomorrow, would you believe it was a good arrest or just a fit up? File it under "no one knows or no one's telling" and move on - I can, of course, understand why his daughter will not - and I wish her luck (which is probably to wish her no success as that may well be ill-luck!)

All is answered in this link: http://www.atimes.co...a/LE29Ae02.html

Police, active and inactive military made up the ranks of the red shirts and the black shirts.

And some of them wore their military camouflage and had the skills to easily shoot this guy.

maybe I missed it, but where in that article do you draw the conclusion that the "black shirts" shot Seh Daeng?

[rixalex]

However, I believe that from the Red shirt grass roots movement a new paradigm of social justice and democracy will emerge to regenerate Thailand and springboard it into a fairer and more inclusive society.

[wolf5370]

Soylentgreen: The Shinawatra family IS thai-chinese elite.

I know that Thaksin is Thai Chinese as is Abhisit, but the Read shirt popular movement is certainly not.

OI course, the Thai-Chinese elites here will attempt to manipulate it to their own ends as the Zionists do in the USA and the UK.

However, I believe that from the Red shirt grass roots movement a new paradigm of social justice and democracy will emerge to regenerate Thailand and springboard it into a fairer and more inclusive society.

I certaily hope so - in reference to your last paragraph. I said this early on before the Bangkok dibacle, when Red Shirts was in the news leading up to it. It seemed that a lot of the ideals made sense and would, hopefully, end the fuedal system that is still in place here (disguised as democracy) - the problem then, as I and a lot of others, saw it was the leadership. In particular Thaksin himself. The "movement" really needed and needs a new charismatic leader from the rank and file that is not linked to old politics and old money. Then they need to rally behind and drive him/her home. The problem is that money and old power is still pulling the strings - the Red Shirts took the easy line of allowing the old guard to hold their hand and guide them; to indoctrinate the masses that followed for social reasons with the message of forgiving and returning the old powers that were. It seems to me like the real Reds need to spliter off from their leadership and start again - or reform (under a different banner).

[rixalex]

It seems to me like the real Reds need to spliter off from their leadership and start again - or reform (under a different banner).

For such a thing to happen, it would require those "real" red shirts you speak of to think in terms of the long term gain for the whole country, and i'm sorry, but i don't think that however well intentioned and highly principled those people might be, that given the choice of an immediate payout (that having someone like Thaksin as their leader provides the opportunity for), and the alternative of ditching Thaksin to fight for something that may bring gain in many years time for future generations, that they could bring themselves to choose the latter.

Not that i blame them for that. In a country like this, every one has to take care of themselves and put food on the table for today. That's fine. But let's not dress this up as some sort of selfless long-term struggle for a better future, or kid ourselves that it is going to morph into that sort of movement any time soon.

Edited January 22, 2012 by rixalex

[wolf5370]

It seems to me like the real Reds need to spliter off from their leadership and start again - or reform (under a different banner).

For such a thing to happen, it would require those "real" red shirts you speak of to think in terms of the long term gain for the whole country, and i'm sorry, but i don't think that however well intentioned and highly principled those people might be, that given the choice of an immediate payout (that having someone like Thaksin as their leader provides the opportunity for), and the alternative of ditching Thaksin to fight for something that may bring gain in many years time for future generations, that they could bring themselves to choose the latter.

Not that i blame them for that. In a country like this, every one has to take care of themselves and put food on the table for today. That's fine. But let's not dress this up as some sort of selfless long-term struggle for a better future, or kid ourselves that it is going to morph into that sort of movement any time soon.

Unfortuantely I fear you are correct.

[hellodolly]

Your psychopathic comments reveal how far you are removed from reality.

If you took the time to read my post you would see that the compasrison was made in terms of grieving families and racist, sexist comments, not in terms of their popularity or platforms.

Seh Daeng represented and fought for the Red shirt movement who won the elections, thus for the majority of Thais, not the bunch of crooked bloodsucking leeches you seem to support.

It's obvious you have been reading too many Andy McNab comics when you start spouting terms like "taken out", "remove the piece of garbage", "removed".

Many, many Thais did note vote in the last election. The current government did not get over 50% of that vote. The party that won was PTP that is not composed completely of red shirts. Many of the red shirts would not have known that a disaffected general in the pay of a deposed corrupt ex-PM would be leading the military wing of the movement - or even that such a wing existed.

Many red shirts may have mistakenly thought that they were attending a peaceful protest against the coup (albeit 2+ years and 4 PMs too late) and considered that their leaders hate-filled speeches were merely rhetoric, How many actually brought bottles?

To ignore those realities and leap to the conclusion that Seh Daeng represented the "majority of Thais" goes past a flight of fancy well into lunacy, and would be considered an insult by the majority of Thais that I know, and many of those are red shirt supporters.

Nit picking as usual, I see.

I take it reality is nitpicking for you.

Maybe you should try reality you will find it is not that scarey.

What is scary is the dream world you live in being presented as reality.

[z12]

The thing that get me about this, is if it was some kind of conspiracy perpetrated by the Red Shirts in order to have a martyr, or as an excuse to armed combat, or as evidence after of the fact, or all of the above, then it could not have been done more incompetantly. If a cop wants to fit you up, he puts drugs in your draw and finds them during a search, he doesn't leave them under a tree outside and suggest that they must be yours because you had something to gain from them. What I mean is, why was it not made obvious it was a soldier that did it - a video of a guy in fatigues or a group of soldiers on a roof top witha sniper rifle, or whatever - not exactly hard to make a low quality phone movie showing just that (videod at any time and with sympathisers dressed up) - then it would lend itself nicely and make world news - as it stands it is a rumour no more than the same rumours as to JFK's assassination etc (even more vague as at least then they had a shooter even if some believe it was not him).

So, what does this leave? It really was the Army or PAD as rumoured? It was just someone living nearby that had had enough? That it was just an unlucky random shot that looks like an assissination given the context and apparant expert aim? If they arrested any of the above tomorrow, would you believe it was a good arrest or just a fit up? File it under "no one knows or no one's telling" and move on - I can, of course, understand why his daughter will not - and I wish her luck (which is probably to wish her no success as that may well be ill-luck!)

All is answered in this link: http://www.atimes.co...a/LE29Ae02.html

Police, active and inactive military made up the ranks of the red shirts and the black shirts.

And some of them wore their military camouflage and had the skills to easily shoot this guy.

maybe I missed it, but where in that article do you draw the conclusion that the "black shirts" shot Seh Daeng?

Rogue General ‘Seh Daeng’ Sets His Own Red Agenda

http://saiyasombut.w...own-red-agenda/

Maybe the handwriting on the wall has to be in neon for you.

Edited January 22, 2012 by z12

[473geo]

Rogue General ‘Seh Daeng’ Sets His Own Red Agenda

http://saiyasombut.w...own-red-agenda/

Maybe the handwriting on the wall has to be in neon for you.

The article is clouded in that it mentions every possible element that may have suffered embarrassment by his actions

But one stark reality, if as suggested he intended to topple the government at all costs.......one man could have less reason than others to encourage his demise

[animatic]

The question in Seh Daeng's killing is "Cui bono?" Who benefited?

The Red Shirts were trying their damnedest to provoke the Army and Police in order to get a bloody shirt to wave. That's why they were firing off those wicked little M-80's with a ball bearing taped to it. But during the time of the protest I think the number of deaths in Bangkok actually lessened.

But supposedly the government had a sniper shoot Seh Daeng because...why exactly? In order to give the Red Shirts the martyr they wanted?

I thought the government leaders were supposed to be sophisticated villians, able to manage 37 layers of conspiracy without leaving any evidence?

It looks to me like the Red Shirts are still looking for a bloody shirt to wave.

You might want to check your timelines - By the time Sae Daeng was shot the Red Shirts already had far too many "bloody shirts to wave" as you so nicely refer to the dead red shirt supporters.

But none were a big enough name to be a figurehead martyr.

Many unknown people always die day in day out, but big names linger.

Edited January 22, 2012 by animatic

[animatic]

Your psychopathic comments reveal how far you are removed from reality.

If you took the time to read my post you would see that the compasrison was made in terms of grieving families and racist, sexist comments, not in terms of their popularity or platforms.

Seh Daeng represented and fought for the Red shirt movement who won the elections, thus for the majority of Thais, not the bunch of crooked bloodsucking leeches you seem to support.

It's obvious you have been reading too many Andy McNab comics when you start spouting terms like "taken out", "remove the piece of garbage", "removed".

Many, many Thais did note vote in the last election. The current government did not get over 50% of that vote. The party that won was PTP that is not composed completely of red shirts. Many of the red shirts would not have known that a disaffected general in the pay of a deposed corrupt ex-PM would be leading the military wing of the movement - or even that such a wing existed.

Many red shirts may have mistakenly thought that they were attending a peaceful protest against the coup (albeit 2+ years and 4 PMs too late) and considered that their leaders hate-filled speeches were merely rhetoric, How many actually brought bottles?

To ignore those realities and leap to the conclusion that Seh Daeng represented the "majority of Thais" goes past a flight of fancy well into lunacy, and would be considered an insult by the majority of Thais that I know, and many of those are red shirt supporters.

Nit picking as usual, I see.

41 post and you know his 'usual 'style already. my you're a wizard.

Oh don't look your hand button is glowing.

Edited January 22, 2012 by animatic

[animatic]

Why and when the Chinese turned away from communism and to capitalism

Why capitalism works and totalitarianism fails

The Secret Document That Transformed China

http://www.npr.org/b...ansformed-china

Where communism goes, famine follows, history has proven time and time again.

Ah, but communism works wonders to harness the poor into backing your play for power.

They it's business as usual behind the façade. The poor must still fend for themselves.

[lomatopo]

There were some rumors that Sawasdipol's assassination was payback for the murder of Pol. Lt-Col. Methee Chartmontri, head of the PAD security guard detail on October 7, 2008 in a car bombing at the PAD protest. The daughter must have heard these rumors, and so may know that pursuing this may lead to bigger problems.

[TAWP]

A person that has thrown grenades at a senior officer after a personal grudge, that leads an armed group of army renegades and then declare open war on the nations army...would be treated much better in the west?

[473geo]

A person that has thrown grenades at a senior officer after a personal grudge, that leads an armed group of army renegades and then declare open war on the nations army...would be treated much better in the west?

You are attempting to justify on the behalf of......?

[tlansford]

The thing that get me about this, is if it was some kind of conspiracy perpetrated by the Red Shirts in order to have a martyr, or as an excuse to armed combat, or as evidence after of the fact, or all of the above, then it could not have been done more incompetantly. If a cop wants to fit you up, he puts drugs in your draw and finds them during a search, he doesn't leave them under a tree outside and suggest that they must be yours because you had something to gain from them. What I mean is, why was it not made obvious it was a soldier that did it - a video of a guy in fatigues or a group of soldiers on a roof top witha sniper rifle, or whatever - not exactly hard to make a low quality phone movie showing just that (videod at any time and with sympathisers dressed up) - then it would lend itself nicely and make world news - as it stands it is a rumour no more than the same rumours as to JFK's assassination etc (even more vague as at least then they had a shooter even if some believe it was not him).

So, what does this leave? It really was the Army or PAD as rumoured? It was just someone living nearby that had had enough? That it was just an unlucky random shot that looks like an assissination given the context and apparant expert aim? If they arrested any of the above tomorrow, would you believe it was a good arrest or just a fit up? File it under "no one knows or no one's telling" and move on - I can, of course, understand why his daughter will not - and I wish her luck (which is probably to wish her no success as that may well be ill-luck!)

All is answered in this link: http://www.atimes.co...a/LE29Ae02.html

Police, active and inactive military made up the ranks of the red shirts and the black shirts.

And some of them wore their military camouflage and had the skills to easily shoot this guy.

maybe I missed it, but where in that article do you draw the conclusion that the "black shirts" shot Seh Daeng?

Rogue General ‘Seh Daeng’ Sets His Own Red Agenda

http://saiyasombut.w...own-red-agenda/

Maybe the handwriting on the wall has to be in neon for you.

not in neon, but if it had actually been in the article, it would have been helpful.

"All is answered in this link: http://www.atimes.co...a/LE29Ae02.html"

Since I see that you evidently posted the wrong link the first time, I would now say that the second article hardly supports your idea that the men-in-black would have shot the man they were taking orders from, as you seem to claim.

But until there is more evidence made public regarding his assassination, we'll have to admit that we don't know who shot him, nor who ordered it. On the other hand, the most probable scenario remains that the army / government killed him.

And z12 is very creative - almost as creative as that other poster, wxyz

[Siam Simon]

And z12 is very creative - almost as creative as that other poster, wxyz

Ha ha. Hadn't noticed that one .

[tlansford]

And z12 is very creative - almost as creative as that other poster, wxyz

Ha ha. Hadn't noticed that one .

noticed what ???

[TAWP]

A person that has thrown grenades at a senior officer after a personal grudge, that leads an armed group of army renegades and then declare open war on the nations army...would be treated much better in the west?

You are attempting to justify on the behalf of......?

It is a question. Especially to those that for some reason try to paint the dealing with the violent Red Shirts as something that was much worse than would happen in the west.

[whybother]

<snip>

But until there is more evidence made public regarding his assassination, we'll have to admit that we don't know who shot him, nor who ordered it. On the other hand, the most probable scenario remains that the army / government killed him.

Given Seh Daeng's link to the killing of the colonel and other soldiers on April 10, it wouldn't surprise me if it was the army that did it.

As to orders ... they could have come from many places that have nothing to do with the government.

[animatic]

A person that has thrown grenades at a senior officer after a personal grudge, that leads an armed group of army renegades and then declare open war on the nations army...would be treated much better in the west?

You are attempting to justify on the behalf of......?

It is a question. Especially to those that for some reason try to paint the dealing with the violent Red Shirts as something that was much worse than would happen in the west.

He would have been arrested and tried long before this in most rational countries.

I can't think of any one individual in Thailand that would have more festering motives

for them to be assassinated than Sae Daeng. Almost like he painted on the target himself.

[473geo]

A person that has thrown grenades at a senior officer after a personal grudge, that leads an armed group of army renegades and then declare open war on the nations army...would be treated much better in the west?

You are attempting to justify on the behalf of......?

It is a question. Especially to those that for some reason try to paint the dealing with the violent Red Shirts as something that was much worse than would happen in the west.

He would have been arrested and tried long before this in most rational countries.

I can't think of any one individual in Thailand that would have more festering motives

for them to be assassinated than Sae Daeng. Almost like he painted on the target himself.

Except I believe........... a person who holds the rank of General.................

[rubl]

Having read some of the posts here and remembering similar discussions since May 2010 I can only say that the topic tiltle should have been

No New Evidence About The Killing Of Red-Shirt 'Seh Daeng'

[phiphidon]

There were some rumors that Sawasdipol's assassination was payback for the murder of Pol. Lt-Col. Methee Chartmontri, head of the PAD security guard detail on October 7, 2008 in a car bombing at the PAD protest. The daughter must have heard these rumors, and so may know that pursuing this may lead to bigger problems.

Well that's an interesting take on the demise of a PAD car bomber.........................

[OzMick]

There were some rumors that Sawasdipol's assassination was payback for the murder of Pol. Lt-Col. Methee Chartmontri, head of the PAD security guard detail on October 7, 2008 in a car bombing at the PAD protest. The daughter must have heard these rumors, and so may know that pursuing this may lead to bigger problems.

Well that's an interesting take on the demise of a PAD car bomber.........................

"Car bomber" and "car bombing" are equally inaccurate - most car bombers don't use their own expensive vehicle for the obvious reasons. It is suspected that he was transporting ping-pong bombs which exploded en masse killing him.

Edited January 22, 2012 by OzMick

[ajarnmark]

If some one is shot while carrying on a terrorist act, and by a policeman

May be he should be awarded a medal for dong his duty

Terrorist act? What was that?

Did he block the airport? Did he deprive poor people?

Just so funny how so-called self-righetous people claim to be so when they are obviously just the scum... just like democrats and their cronies...

A murder is a murder... no matter who does it...

Get out in the real world and dont just be a keyboard warrior...