Sorry, Newbie Question, Starting Along The Path In Chiang Mai

[DavidOxon]

Hi

have spent some time perusing this new(to me) forum!

Would like a little quick input if you can spare me the time.

Have lived in Chiang Mai 4 years married with a kid

Up until recently financially viable, but now not so sure!

Looking for a second string to my bow

A teacher friend said I'd make an excellent teacher!!! (I have my doubts!)

So... thinking of doing a TEFL course until I started reading this forum, now not so sure...

Age 49

Live in Chiang Mai

No Degree or other recognisable qualifications

No teacher's license

British, quite well spoken, presentable, no accent

Have worked as a sub editor/typesetter for a British publisher so have a reasonable standard of English.

Bottom line...

If I do a TEFL course, could I get a job teaching here?

Appreciate any input

thanks

David

Edited February 2, 2012 by DavidOxon

[tolstoy]

You will be able to get part time jobs, but most places will not give you a work permit or hire full time if you don't have a degree.

I would suggest doing a good TEFL (like the Celta or something that stresses participation). You offer nothing other than speaking English. Most schools if they were to hire you, would be taking a big gamble.

You should also know that most schools offer not guidance or training and expect you to know what to do. Even if you have good classroom management skills do you really know how to develop a lesson or impliment a curriculum that is best for your students?

[ludditeman]

If you don't have a degree you will be reduced to working illegally, in the lowest paid jobs without a work permit.

Not only that, but in and around CM there are loads of teachers with degrees and teaching qualifications looking for teaching work.

If you are prepared to move to Nakon Nowhere it might be worth a shot.

Edited February 2, 2012 by ludditeman

[Loaded]

I know lots of teachers in and around Chiang Mai working without a degree. Many have work permits and renewable 2-year provisional teacher licences. You don't need a degree to obtain one of these.

"A copy of degree or educational background"

Click on the Teacher Council of Thailand's website:

http://www.ksp.or.th/Khurusapha/en/

Then, click on "provisional teacher permit"

For example, I know a non-native speaker teacher without a degree teaching south of Chiang Mai who received a provisional teacher license based on a receipt issued by an online degree course he had just enrolled on.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Loaded

[FiscalFizz]

David. The even if you do manage to slip through and get a work permit.. think about this. Everyone from my generation has a bachelors degree in something ( for the most part). In the 21st century, the bachelor's degree is the new H.S. Diploma... a masters degree is the new bachelors.

I digress- My point is, you might get your work permit, but with thousands of us 20-30 somethings out there who do have a TEFL course plus a Bachelors degree...... what work do you really expect to get? I hear it is hard enough to get a decent TEFL job in Chiang Mai with a Bachelors + TEFL.

On top of that... you have no teaching experience.

part time work, but even then, you will still have tons of competition from full timers looking to do exactly what you are trying to do- Find a 2nd source of income.

Great interviewing skills and personality does indeed count for as much as a degree and TEFL cert in some interviewers eyes. Mainly, you will probably have a bit of trouble getting a work permit. I wouldn't want to get caught working illegally and deported if you have a wife and kid over there. I don't exactly know how that situation would work versus a single person working illegally.

Good luck, you're going to need it brother!

[ludditeman]

I know lots of teachers in and around Chiang Mai working without a degree.

What worked in the past, doesn't apply in the workplace now for a newby.

[Loaded]

I know lots of teachers in and around Chiang Mai working without a degree.

What worked in the past, doesn't apply in the workplace now for a newby.

They are working now.

Everyone will have a different opinion about this and nobody can give an absolute answer on this as there isn't one. I would say though that people who say it's not possible to be legal without a degree are wrong. I think a lot depends on local knowledge and connections. Looking for work in Chiang Mai without either can be challenging.

[Yooyung]

Sorry Fiscalfizz but your coming off as being a bit of a know it all know nothing! ( I am forcing myself to be polite)

From what I have read of your posts you are in no position to be dishing out advice regarding the current teaching situation in Thailand. It sounds as if (from your posts) that you have as yet not even set foot in the country and yet you are dishing it out to a person who has lived there for 4 years, is obviously married to a Thai and has a kid! (and maybe can speak the language, can you?) I am not going to argue about the situation with the TCT tests and the like.I am now back in Aus studying for a degree after teaching over there for 9 years without one.

Such statements as 'a bachelor degree in the 21st century is the new High school diploma' makes you come across as being a bit wet behind the ears. I suggest you get you ass over here and test the water before casting too many stones into the pond. A masters degree doesnt mean too much if you cant take the heat, find the language too difficult to learn cant deal with the way the thais operate and end up slunking off back home because it wasnt like Kansas afterall. It takes more than pieces of paper to be able to handle working in Thai schools.

I dont usually critise but in your case feel its justified. The OP may well find a job in Chaing Mai. Getting jobs in Thailand is not always about qualifications, rightly or wrongly. Go to immigration on the right day and you may walk away with a visa status that you never thought you'd get. Smile, learn the language, learn when/how to wai, wear long pants ,shiny shoes and all the other stuff that you can only learn.....actually being in the country! and you may well do ok.

Good luck to the OP.

My advice (and this is from someone that is married to a Thai, can speak Thai and lived there for over 9 years) is to get a degree if teaching is going to become your main source of income. They will throw everything at you in thailand but the day they start demanding that ALL teachers have Dip Eds from western unis is the day Thailand will lose a veritable noahs ark full of teachers. A degree has been the yardstick for a long while now and I suspect it will be for a while longer. The TEFL industry is geared toward the 35,000 to possibly 50,000 per month category for teachers ( thats a Mon to Fri gig at a school) . That means native speakers with degrees, fair enough to, I have no problem with that pay scale as long as I can find other outside work.

Play it safe for yourself and most importantly for your child. Get a degree. You can study them in Thailand or even do them online from your home country.

Cheers.

[thequietman]

I have to agree with Yooyung.

If you are married with a non-o marriage, you are entitled to a work permit to support your wife and family. Once you go outside changmai into the sticks, there are many positions for a native English speaker. Admittedly you are starting somewhat late but I would never say never. A lot of schools in the smaller towns dont even apply for teachers licences just the work permits.

I would aim for the job market outside Chaingmai and when you get a position ( you will) give it your all. turn up early, leave last and help with anything you can. if you get in well with a country school, they will hold on to you.

I wish you the best of luck in your job search. dont give up. if you can settle for 20 - 25,000 baht a month, just to top up your present savings, then great. Do up a current CV and log onto a site called ALISON (its free). Do a few relevant courses, get your diploma and you have some certs. that show you are progressing.

Good luck to you.

Edited February 3, 2012 by thequietman

[Scott]

You may agree or not agree, but this forum is about teaching in Thailand. Let's keep personal arguments to a minimum and try to address the issue of the OP--not the issues between each other.

[FiscalFizz]

Sorry Fiscalfizz but your coming off as being a bit of a know it all know nothing! ( I am forcing myself to be polite)

From what I have read of your posts you are in no position to be dishing out advice regarding the current teaching situation in Thailand. It sounds as if (from your posts) that you have as yet not even set foot in the country and yet you are dishing it out to a person who has lived there for 4 years, is obviously married to a Thai and has a kid! (and maybe can speak the language, can you?) I am not going to argue about the situation with the TCT tests and the like.I am now back in Aus studying for a degree after teaching over there for 9 years without one.

Such statements as 'a bachelor degree in the 21st century is the new High school diploma' makes you come across as being a bit wet behind the ears. I suggest you get you ass over here and test the water before casting too many stones into the pond. A masters degree doesnt mean too much if you cant take the heat, find the language too difficult to learn cant deal with the way the thais operate and end up slunking off back home because it wasnt like Kansas afterall. It takes more than pieces of paper to be able to handle working in Thai schools.

I dont usually critise but in your case feel its justified. The OP may well find a job in Chaing Mai. Getting jobs in Thailand is not always about qualifications, rightly or wrongly. Go to immigration on the right day and you may walk away with a visa status that you never thought you'd get. Smile, learn the language, learn when/how to wai, wear long pants ,shiny shoes and all the other stuff that you can only learn.....actually being in the country! and you may well do ok.

Good luck to the OP.

My advice (and this is from someone that is married to a Thai, can speak Thai and lived there for over 9 years) is to get a degree if teaching is going to become your main source of income. They will throw everything at you in thailand but the day they start demanding that ALL teachers have Dip Eds from western unis is the day Thailand will lose a veritable noahs ark full of teachers. A degree has been the yardstick for a long while now and I suspect it will be for a while longer. The TEFL industry is geared toward the 35,000 to possibly 50,000 per month category for teachers ( thats a Mon to Fri gig at a school) . That means native speakers with degrees, fair enough to, I have no problem with that pay scale as long as I can find other outside work.

Play it safe for yourself and most importantly for your child. Get a degree. You can study them in Thailand or even do them online from your home country.

Cheers.

Chuckling right now because you seem to agree with me. Qualifications don't mean much if you "can't take the heat" as you put it. I agree. Thats what I was saying by the very true statement that bachelor's degrees are not valued the same as they were 25 years ago.

I am just baffled by how upset you are with my statements due to the fact that reading through your rant directed at me above, we agree on all aspects of the issue. Maybe you misunderstood my demeanor a bit, if so, I do appologize for the wording.

I have not stepped foot in Thailand, which I make clear in some posts. I have only done about 400 hours of research on the internet in the past month, which is all I have to draw my knowledge from.

My main point was not- You are screwed without a degree. It was more along the lines of. It is so easy to get a bachelors degree these days from any country in the world ( Aus, US, UK) that a lot of people will have them. I even counter-argued my own point by saying that good interviewing skills will outweigh a degree, but still some jobs require them.

Seems I struck some personal nerve with you, which in many ways, is your issue. I do apologize for the misunderstanding and in no way meant to come off as arrogant or snide.

As I said before, Good Luck David!

[Scott]

Since we are veering off-topic, I will put in my 2 cents. Actually, being young and good looking often trumps education and interview skills. This includes dressing sharply.

[JimShortz]

Play it safe for yourself and most importantly for your child. Get a degree. You can study them in Thailand or even do them online from your home country.

David, if you take this advice and decide to study for a degree in Chiang Mai then you have actually got a few decent options. Both Payap and CMU have international sections, taught in English. The range of courses is limited, and the quality of courses is by all accounts pretty variable, but some of the courses come fairly highly recommended - the computer science degree at Payap being one that is apparently particularly noteworthy. Check out the university websites to see what is available in English... At your age there is no problem returning to study; and you never know, it might actually be a fantastic life affirming experience!

There are many people working here in Chiang Mai with fake degrees from Khao San Road, but I wouldn't recommend it; they are beginning to tighten up on this. It actually makes me laugh that so many people buy a degree from Khao San Road. You end up with a degree that is obviously fake - because it is just like everybody else's!

In twenty years of working I am pretty sure that nobody has ever contacted the universities that I have attended to confirm either my degree or my teaching qualification. I am not recommending this (it is illegal after all!), BUT I am convinced that if I had borrowed a friend's documentation and "photoshopped" them that I could be still be using them today... Of course, it may be rather difficult to convince knowledgeable colleagues when beginning a job with no relevant knowledge or skills, just documentation, but I guess it depends where you are working!

Getting a degree, and later a proper teaching qualification, is by far the best solution - and could be a great experience too! Teaching qualifications (proper ones) are available to those who want them (and already have a degree). Options at the moment include on-line from Nottingham University (UK), through Payap University (in association with Keele University, UK), or through NIS school (the University of Manitoba, Canada, is running a course at NIS starting very soon to help the school's unqualified teachers get certified).

[JimShortz]

I have not stepped foot in Thailand, which I make clear in some posts. I have only done about 400 hours of research on the internet in the past month, which is all I have to draw my knowledge from.

100 hours of "research" each week - wow! I'll give you a job if you work that hard...

Now, I hope that not too much of that "research" checking out Thailand involved some of the less salubrious websites!

[FiscalFizz]

I have not stepped foot in Thailand, which I make clear in some posts. I have only done about 400 hours of research on the internet in the past month, which is all I have to draw my knowledge from.

100 hours of "research" each week - wow! I'll give you a job if you work that hard...

Now, I hope that not too much of that "research" checking out Thailand involved some of the less salubrious websites!

My roomates think I have gone crazy. I must admit, however, for the last month I've been unemployed! Nothing but time on my hands.

I have studied just a bit about Pattaya. Not my cup of tea from what I have learned. I would never pay for sex.

Since we are veering off-topic, I will put in my 2 cents. Actually, being young and good looking often trumps education and interview skills. This includes dressing sharply.

So

1- Good Looking

2- Young

3- Dress to Impress

At least I got 2 out of 3 of these things going on.

[Scott]

Don't necessarily rule any place out based on what you read on the internet.

There is more to Pattaya than meets the eye. I took my elderly mother and a friend their on a holiday and was nervous about them getting a glimpse of the 'seedier' side of Pattaya. It was very easy to avoid, and they had no idea about the reputation and left with a wonderful memory of the place.

Finding work in some of the resort areas is difficult, however.

Different strokes for different folks. If you know yourself, you'll have a better feel for areas where you might want to live.