George's New Desktop Computer?

[george]

I have a good screen, actually a dual, but my two year old box need some more power.

Is this a fair quote, or am I screwed by my local computer guy?

Sorry for upper case below.

Pls advise.

--

SPECS:

1. CPU P4 630 3.0 GHz LGA 775 CACH L2 2 MB FSB 800 MHz.

2. MAINBOARD LGA775 VIA 880PRO BUS 1 GHz 2xDUALDDR2 AGP 8X OR PCIEX16

3. MEMORY DDR2 1 GHz BUS 533 MHz (512 x 2)

4. HARDDISK 120 GB SATA 7,200 RPM BUFFER 8 MB

5. CASE 430 WATT REDL SUPPORT P4

VGA - OLD

MONITOR - OLD

CD-RW - OLD

PRICE : 26,000 BAHT

[solo siam]

Dunno, but if hes suggested 533Mhz RAM then he probably doesnt know what hes doing, Also it does seem a tad on the expensive side.

CPU - 10-12k

Mainboard - 4k

Memory - 4k

HDD - 5k

Case - 2k

Just guesses, and for quality stuff, How you going to use your old VGA card if it has PCI-E?

[george]

Dunno, but if hes suggested 533Mhz RAM then he probably doesnt know what hes doing, Also it does seem a tad on the expensive side.

CPU - 10-12k

Mainboard - 4k

Memory - 4k

HDD - 5k

Case - 2k

Just guesses, and for quality stuff, How you going to use your old VGA card if it has PCI-E?

Why is 533 Mhz no good?

[solo siam]

Because the motherboard can handle 800Mhz, so the memory is going to be 37% slower than it could be.

[Guest endure]

What do you intend to use it for, George?

[Tywais]

Because the motherboard can handle 800Mhz, so the memory is going to be 37% slower than it could be.

Yes, but not not sure if available in Thailand yet and 2nd it is going to be expensive at 4000.00 per 512MB (PC2-6400 from overseas sources, price maybe similar or slightly higher here) versus 1600.00 Baht for 533MHz 512MB (PC2-4200).

Also I suggest you tell them you want ASUS mainboard. I manage over 100 computers here and experience has shown that ASUS has the highest reliability and architecturally more efficient. I compared two identically equipped mainboards but different brands(CPU speed, FSB, etc) and the ASUS was markedly faster.

[solo siam]

Because the motherboard can handle 800Mhz, so the memory is going to be 37% slower than it could be.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, but not not sure if available in Thailand yet and 2nd it is going to be expensive at 4000.00 per 512MB (PC2-6400 from overseas sources, price maybe similar or slightly higher here) versus 1600.00 Baht for 533MHz 512MB (PC2-4200).

Also I suggest you tell them you want ASUS mainboard. I manage over 100 computers here and experience has shown that ASUS has the highest reliability and architecturally more efficient. I compared two identically equipped mainboards but different brands(CPU speed, FSB, etc) and the ASUS was markedly faster.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For someone who manages over 100 computers you dont seem to know much about them.

800Mhz Ram is otherwise known as DDR400, it is 400Mhz but runs at double speed. Its available EVERYWHERE in Thailand, probably cheaper than 333 or 266Mhz RAM.

Cant see any motherboard regardless of brand being markedly faster, maybe a 2-3% increase for a premium motherboard.

Careful when putting together or revamping computers, lots of people think they know what they are doing but dont.

[cobra]

This is a fair , actually a really good price, and a good all around config'd box, assuming your not primarily building gaming box.

[george]

What do you intend to use it for, George?

No games. Primary normal use, web etc, but often running DRS2006 radio software,

http://www.drs2006.com (radio streaming) for Radio Bangkok. The latter takes a bit of power with decoding and streaming etc..

My current box is a P4 1.8 Mhz and 1 GB of RAM, too slow.

[ajarnmark]

Well, george, if ur intended use is limited to normal then I believe that ur existing system should be ok. I have the system with following configuration and I am quite happy with it:

Celeron 2.4d

256MB RAM (though I plan to increase it to 512)

80gb hdd

assus p4-vp-mx motherboard

agp geforce 5200fx

17" monitor

combo drive

my system works really fine n stable, all games work fine on this one.

anyway, price seems to be ok, however, i suggest u to buy a motherboard that supports ddr2.

BTW what do u gonna do with ur old box, if interested to throw it, tell me the place

[Highwayman]

Could be a bit on the high side but without knowing the exact items (brand names) you're being quoted on it's hard to be sure. Looking at http://www.thanni.com/ my take on prices for what you're getting would be:

CPU - 7890

Hard Disk - 3500

RAM - 4000

Mobo - 5000

Case - 1500

Total - 21890

Motherboard could be +/- 1000, HD +1500, RAM is anyones guess but 4000 is what most people would spend, someone into gaming could easily pay double that. A cheap case is 1000, a well known brand like Lian or CoolerMaster can be 2000-5000+, 2000 hopefully gets you something that's well built with good ventilation.

Is it possible that the balance might cover an improved cooling system and power supply? That's something you will need to check as a lot of the cheaper cases don't have good airflow and come with a poor quality power supply. It is worth paying a bit extra for brands like CoolerMaster, Enermax etc.

[Guest endure]

It's alright quoting component prices but don't forget the computer guy has to make a living too.

[Highwayman]

The price the computer guy pays will be lower than what you will find on the site l quoted, plus at Zeer or Pantip the prices are usually a bit cheaper than what you find on Thanni.com.

Last time l was at Zeer l ran into a friend of my wife who was working at one of the mobile shops who said to me to just find what l wanted and the prices so he could go later on and get 5-10% off because he worked in the complex.

Getting everything put together shouldn't cost much as most of the people building computers there probably aren't even making 300 baht a day and it won't take them all day to put a basic computer together so at the prices l suggested the computer guy still makes a decent (Thai) margin.

[remmy]

800Mhz Ram is otherwise known as DDR400, it is 400Mhz but runs at double speed. Its available EVERYWHERE in Thailand, probably cheaper than 333 or 266Mhz RAM. 

are you trying to say that DDR400 with 800mhz is faster than DDR2 PC2-6400 with 800 mhz? it is not available everywhere in thailand and definitely not cheaper than the ones you mentioned. DDR2 533 is much faster than DDR400.

The OP can opt for DDR2 PC-5400 , DDR2 PC-6400, DDR-2 PC-8000 if he wants memory faster than the one he mentioned. All of these are not cheap and may not be available at all in BKK.

[george]

Thanks a lot for your ideas! No big deal to negotiate about apparently, and seems to be the right price... I think I take it!

Cheers

[bdenner]

Dunno, but if hes suggested 533Mhz RAM then he probably doesnt know what hes doing, Also it does seem a tad on the expensive side.

CPU - 10-12k

Mainboard - 4k

Memory - 4k

HDD - 5k

Case - 2k

Just guesses, and for quality stuff, How you going to use your old VGA card if it has PCI-E?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why is 533 Mhz no good?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1,2,4,8 ---- 256,512. OK 1024 or 1GB becoming the norm.

A friend has just taken delivery of a similar machine to the one you specified for about 19000 BUT when I went to help him fine tune it we found it had no recovery disks or licensed OS. He was given a 'pirated' copy of XP SP2.

Be careful.

Edit/ My 1st line relates to how the memory size is derived and I assume the guy meant 512MB RAM

Edited December 8, 2005 by bdenner

[meadish_sweetball]

Nope, 533 Mhz is the data rate of the RAM, not the size which is measured in MB/GB.

[solo siam]

800Mhz Ram is otherwise known as DDR400, it is 400Mhz but runs at double speed. Its available EVERYWHERE in Thailand, probably cheaper than 333 or 266Mhz RAM. 

are you trying to say that DDR400 with 800mhz is faster than DDR2 PC2-6400 with 800 mhz? it is not available everywhere in thailand and definitely not cheaper than the ones you mentioned. DDR2 533 is much faster than DDR400.

The OP can opt for DDR2 PC-5400 , DDR2 PC-6400, DDR-2 PC-8000 if he wants memory faster than the one he mentioned. All of these are not cheap and may not be available at all in BKK.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No-ones mentioned DDR2 GDDR3 or any other types of cutting edge memory, My point was simply to take the 800Mhz RAM (DDR 400) over any slower type of ram. If its not a PRO gaming machine, then those memory types would be a waste, If it was a Pro gaming machine then I'd expect a budget of 70,000+

[Hikage]

Gee George, your current system seems more than fast enough for your intended application. I'd suggest reinstalling windows (if u use that) or at least defrag, if it's laggy!

[Tywais]

For someone who manages over 100 computers you dont seem to know much about them.

Likewise

800Mhz Ram is otherwise known as DDR400, it is 400Mhz but runs at double speed. Its available EVERYWHERE in Thailand, probably cheaper than 333 or 266Mhz RAM. 

It's called DDR2 PC2-6400

"DDR2 is the new generation of DDR technology. The primary benefit is the potential for faster throughput. Currently DDR2 operates at data transfer rates starting at 400 MHz (the upper limit for DDR) and 533 MHz. Support for 667 MHz and 800 MHz transfer rates is expected in 2005."

Cant see any motherboard regardless of brand being markedly faster, maybe a 2-3% increase for a premium motherboard.

Why don't you put together a LEMEL mainboard and an ASUS mainboard with same specs and find out yourself. There are big variances in peformance depending on the chipsets used.

Careful when putting together or revamping computers, lots of people think they know what they are doing but dont.

Seems to be your case.

[AlexLah]

Way overpriced, I think you can get a better system for around 20.000 Bath.

Alex

[gadgetsteve]

Processor - good choice.

Intel P4 630, price:THB7,950

Motherboard - I'd reccomend the ASUS P5RD1-V, it's got the new ATi Express chipset with an onboard ATi RADEON X300 graphics card as well as a PCI-E socket, it's a bargain at: THB3,390.

Memory - I'd only buy "Kingston ValueRAM" it's more expensive, but with it. 2x 512Mb DDR2 PC2-4200 cost: THB4,180

Hard disk - steer clear of Maxtor, go for a S-ATA Seagate with 5 year warranty (normally only 1 year with Maxtor in Thailand) a 120Gb is 3650, pay 200baht more for a 160Gb at: THB 3,850.

Case with PSU, go for a case with 2x12cm fans they run cool and quiet, expect to pay about: THB2,000

Total: 21,730 + 7% if you want an offical VAT reciept.

Prices quoted are from JET COMPUTER PLUS, 3rd Floor Fortune Town.

[rio666uk]

for the record the OP stated the memory was

DDR2-533 i believe this is DDR2-PC2-4200 @ 1.8v....

DDR2-800 is DDR2-PC2-6400 @ 2.1v

DDR2-1000 is DDR2-PC2-8000 @ 2.2v

and ive taken this snippet from PCstats.com to enlighten anyone thats remotely interested in ddr/2 or is following this thread with no idea what its all about.... theres much more on the site if you feel the need... poor you!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DDR2-SDRAM is considered an evolutionary upgrade over existing DDR memory. It maintains the same core functions, transferring 64 bits of data twice every clock cycle for an effective transfer rate twice that of the front-side bus (FSB) of a computer system, and an effective bandwidth equal to its speed x 8.

Of course, DDR2 introduces some new features which allow it to ramp up to much higher speeds (with correspondingly higher bandwidth) and higher memory densities, all the while using less power.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

George - i think the spec should be fine if youre not doing anything thats very memory intensive....gaming and graphics

remember the simple rule when considering a new system..... buy as much memory as you can, cos at some point you can betcha ass you'll need it.

[torgate]

Buy for life George

http://www.cray.com/products/index.html

[solo siam]

Sorry didnt see the DDR2 in the memory spec of the OP.

Seems like a waste of money to me over standard DDR400, Unless as I stated before he's trying to run an ultra-high spec gaming machine.

I put together (by hand) on average 2 PC's a week, frequently updating our office gaming PC's as well - Spending more on a motherboard does not increase its speed exponentially, you get more features, overclocking ability and a very slight performance increases. For the OP's needs a brand name low-end motherboard would be more than fine.

[Highwayman]

Shouldn't be much difference if any price wise between DDR2 and DDR400 now.

In any case George has probably already ordered his new set-up.

[JackA]

I would just like to stress out the following things:

The P4 get's extremely hot, and the stock cooler supplied is quite noisy (and there are 2 versions of the cooler (the 5 blade cooler is superior to the 8 blade version).

Even though the P4 6XX series contain 2Mb L2 Cache, the 5XX matches the speed former due to lower latencies.

DDR2 while having a higher speed, unfortunately have higher latencies compared to DDR, so overall it's on par or slower than standard DDR (PC3200) - typically the DDR2 that are available are all either CAS 4 - 5, whereas the DDR are CAS 2.5 - 3.

Socket T (LGA775) have the pins located in the socket, which makes processor upgrades slightly more complicated, as those pins are bending quite easy and will render mainboard useless.

Also a reminder, as we're moving forward towards Dualcore, there's currently ONLY 3 chipsets available that supports those D chips:

Intel 945P, 955X (support all)

nVIDIA nForce4 Intel Edition (don't support 820D).

i915P, 925X, SiS, VIA don't.

I would suggest a total other solution that is running Cool and Quiet.

AMD Athlon64 3000+ (around 5.200) - Have to be SOCKET 939

A nice Nforce 3/4 Mainboard - (AGP/PCI-E) (3.000 - 9.XXX)

Standard DDR PC3200 Memory (2x512Mb Running Dual Channel).

And a GeFORCE 6600 (3.900 - 4.900 Brand - RAM)

You'll end up with a system that is fully ready for DUAL core and is whisper quiet.

Happy Hunting.

[MikeWill]

I would suggest a total other solution that is running Cool and Quiet.

AMD Athlon64 3000+ (around 5.200) - Have to be SOCKET 939

A nice Nforce 3/4 Mainboard - (AGP/PCI-E) (3.000 - 9.XXX)

Standard DDR PC3200 Memory (2x512Mb Running Dual Channel).

And a GeFORCE 6600 (3.900 - 4.900 Brand - RAM)

You'll end up with a system that is fully ready for DUAL core and is whisper quiet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Which Mainboard (socket 939) would you recommend?

It is probably RAM: Standard DDR PC3200 Memory (2x512Mb Dual Channel), and GeFORCE 6600 (3.900 - 4.900) is the video card, isn't it?

What would be a total cost for such system?

[JackA]

Which Mainboard (socket 939) would you recommend?

For the mainboard I like upgrade possibilities: Gigabyte GA-K8N-SLIN4 SLI (nFORCE4 SLI) : 4.200,-

Fully SLI ready, with the possibility to interconnect 2 similar graphics cards and get a nice speed boost.

It is probably RAM: Standard DDR PC3200 Memory (2x512Mb Dual Channel) (4.000 - 4.200) - Yes

and GeFORCE 6600 (3.900 - 4.900) is the video card, isn't it? - Again Yes.

What would be a total cost for such system?

Add the prices given and you'll have a rough idea.

[meadish_sweetball]

JackA, I dont see the need for SLI in George's case. Your system seems like a good idea for gaming or otherwise graphics intense applications.