Economy 91 Versus 95

[monty1412]

On return trip from P this morning had to fill up with 91 as they didn't have any 95.

Cant believe I used a tank of gas on way back to BKK.

Surely there cant be that much calorific difference between 91 and 95.. estimate 40% more fuel usage.. same ambient temps, same driving style.. did notice the engine was running about 8C hotter.... could feel it as well on legs even though they were covered.

Didn't notice any change in performance but wasn't pushing it.

It was Shell 91....

Bike is Yamaha FZI Fazer

Has anyone experienced dramatic and I mean dramatic.. "sort of look down a fuel gauge and say <deleted>" difference in economy and running temps.

and to the shitty green Ford ranger driver who threw his empty coke can out of the window when I was right behind... please go back to your village.. they are sorely missing their idiot. your are simply unreplaceable..

There I feel better and breathe two three

cheers

[submaniac]

Ummm...yeah...I heard of the same thing happening to other people. It's happened to me on a 150cc bike where I had to put in the cheap gasohol stuff. I think it used more fuel...I was more concerned about the bike not running properly (it really did not like gasohol). Otherwise I always use the top octane benzine whenever possible.

[katabeachbum]

if its set to accept 91, e10 gasohol or petrol, there is no performance or milage gain in using 95.

If its set to use 95 or 98, it might run 91 but at much lower performance and milage

kwaker 650Th are set to accept 91, cant say about your bike, a hint on which market it was made for may give a clue

petrol over e10, I have been unable to measure any difference in cars or bikes. e20 I can measure difference

[monty1412]

if its set to accept 91, e10 gasohol or petrol, there is no performance or milage gain in using 95.

If its set to use 95 or 98, it might run 91 but at much lower performance and milage

kwaker 650Th are set to accept 91, cant say about your bike, a hint on which market it was made for may give a clue

petrol over e10, I have been unable to measure any difference in cars or bikes. e20 I can measure difference

definitely says 95 in handbook,, one tank of 91 wont hurt it but might just put through a bottle of octane enhancer / cleaner on next fill up of 95.

[wana]

i get better milage from benzine red 91 and gasohol 95 than the gasohol 91

bikes feel more powerful also on premium gas like caltex techron gold benzine but its 51 thb per litre where you can find it

petronas / ptt gasohol 91 is like piss

[snowflake]

I get the best milage and power with shells VPower... 41B pr liter, but I think it is worth it...

[wana]

the smaller the bike the more noticeable it feels also ,on a scooter where every HP counts

good quality gas makes it more enjoyable

[katabeachbum]

I get the best milage and power with shells VPower... 41B pr liter, but I think it is worth it...

it used to be 95 petrol, then it went to E6 (6% ethanol), did they stop there or is it now E10 as every other Gasohol

[wana]

I get the best milage and power with shells VPower... 41B pr liter, but I think it is worth it...

it used to be 95 petrol, then it went to E6 (6% ethanol), did they stop there or is it now E10 as every other Gasohol

s

shell stations have nearly all stopped regular gas(benzine 91+95) in favour of 10% ethanol (gasohol 91+95)

v-power is just a premium gasohol , the v-power recipe has changed from premium benzine to gasohol very quietly and the sticker

on the pump is a little differnt than it used to be

[katabeachbum]

I get the best milage and power with shells VPower... 41B pr liter, but I think it is worth it...

it used to be 95 petrol, then it went to E6 (6% ethanol), did they stop there or is it now E10 as every other Gasohol

s

shell stations have nearly all stopped regular gas(benzine 91+95) in favour of 10% ethanol (gasohol 91+95)

v-power is just a premium gasohol , the v-power recipe has changed from premium benzine to gasohol very quietly and the sticker

on the pump is a little differnt than it used to be

thats what I thought, and shell doesnt call it gasohol, they call it V-Power with a very silent E10

Shell V-Power Diesel is far superior to ordinary Euro III diesel as sold by Shell and all others, but for the gasohol I do not see any point

[Fishenough]

The higher the octane rating the slower burn, and therefore smoother the power delivery, which a bike time can be adjust easily for. In these days of electric tuning it is easy for the manufacture to choose between timing the engine for low octane fuel, a compromise of low and high fuels rating, or a high performance bike tuned for max power using high octane numbers...

Back when I was a teen, the shop would tune our 250 MX smokers whilst filled with premium and the best oils; yet living in a remote community we only had low octane fuels available plus often used what 2 stroke oil we had on hand - at times our mileage would put a liter bike to shame! Hence learned to bring our bikes in for tuning with a jerry can of pre mixed low octane unleaded that had been siting around the garage for at least a month or more. This trick could save us a gallon of burnt fuel over a day of hard riding.

A bikes fuel of choice is specific to that bike, or how it's been tuned after it leaves the factory.

[BigBikeBKK]

AFAIK Caltex is the only place to find 95 benzene anymore, and it's only at certain stations...

[tubber]

When I had the Fazer the mileage with 95 Gasohol was abysmal. The worst I got was 148km on a tank before the fuel meter started flashing. The mileage with 91 Benzine was way better and performance was better. It ran like sh!t on Gasohol. Yamaha do state in their manuals for the FZ-1 and the FJR that you can use fuel with up to 10% Ethanol. I use 91 Benzine in all the bikes.

[KRS1]

PURE ...

[tubber]

PURE ...

Who are you referring to?

Edited February 15, 2012 by tubber

[KRS1]

PURE ...

Who are you referring to?

The gas station.

[tubber]

PURE ...

Who are you referring to?

The gas station.

Sorry, I thought you were implying I was talking <deleted>. I remember you posted on a thread about Pure gas stations before but I can't find it. What did you say about it,?

[KRS1]

PURE ...

Who are you referring to?

The gas station.

Sorry, I thought you were implying I was talking <deleted>. I remember you posted on a thread about Pure gas stations before but I can't find it. What did you say about it,?

No problem i get accused of <deleted> all the time. I suggest trying it and coming to your own conclusion.

[tubber]

OK thanks KRS1, I will give it a bash.

[Big Guns]

Unfortunately some bikes have to use 95. My 2011 Vespa GTS SS has to have minimum 95 RON. I'm pretty sure my next ride the Monster 795 needs 95 RON too. The good old Kawa 650's can take 91 and that's all I used to put in my Er6n.

[wana]

Unfortunately some bikes have to use 95. My 2011 Vespa GTS SS has to have minimum 95 RON. I'm pretty sure my next ride the Monster 795 needs 95 RON too. The good old Kawa 650's can take 91 and that's all I used to put in my Er6n.

Unfortunately some bikes have to use 95. My 2011 Vespa GTS SS has to have minimum 95 RON. I'm pretty sure my next ride the Monster 795 needs 95 RON too. The good old Kawa 650's can take 91 and that's all I used to put in my Er6n.

i didnt think they were allowed sell vehicles that cannot run on gasohol 91 in 2011

have you ever put 91 in and see what happened ?

[katabeachbum]

Unfortunately some bikes have to use 95. My 2011 Vespa GTS SS has to have minimum 95 RON. I'm pretty sure my next ride the Monster 795 needs 95 RON too. The good old Kawa 650's can take 91 and that's all I used to put in my Er6n.

Unfortunately some bikes have to use 95. My 2011 Vespa GTS SS has to have minimum 95 RON. I'm pretty sure my next ride the Monster 795 needs 95 RON too. The good old Kawa 650's can take 91 and that's all I used to put in my Er6n.

i didnt think they were allowed sell vehicles that cannot run on gasohol 91 in 2011

have you ever put 91 in and see what happened ?

lets move over to the car world, which I know better

Honda Accord 2,4. US and Thai spec, can run 91RON and up to 20% Ethanol. 180hp

Euro spec, can not run lower than 95RON, and max E10. 200hp

all vehicles are designed for their target market, fuel requirements differ depending on which market they are intended for

all new superefficient car engines, like Benz "Blue Motion" which is a label for the models with less pollution, require 95 or 98 RON

Trying 91 in a 95 or 98 requireing bike is not clever. No bikes have knock sensors allowing lower RON by temporary detune of engine for crap fuel, and thus engine knocking will appear

[Big Guns]

Unfortunately some bikes have to use 95. My 2011 Vespa GTS SS has to have minimum 95 RON. I'm pretty sure my next ride the Monster 795 needs 95 RON too. The good old Kawa 650's can take 91 and that's all I used to put in my Er6n.

Unfortunately some bikes have to use 95. My 2011 Vespa GTS SS has to have minimum 95 RON. I'm pretty sure my next ride the Monster 795 needs 95 RON too. The good old Kawa 650's can take 91 and that's all I used to put in my Er6n.

i didnt think they were allowed sell vehicles that cannot run on gasohol 91 in 2011

have you ever put 91 in and see what happened ?

The manual for the 2011 Vespa clearly states that it must be run on 95 RON. I haven't tried using 91 as its an expensive bike and parts would have to be imported. I would prefer not to use gasohol but where I live theres no choice.

[wana]

Unfortunately some bikes have to use 95. My 2011 Vespa GTS SS has to have minimum 95 RON. I'm pretty sure my next ride the Monster 795 needs 95 RON too. The good old Kawa 650's can take 91 and that's all I used to put in my Er6n.

Unfortunately some bikes have to use 95. My 2011 Vespa GTS SS has to have minimum 95 RON. I'm pretty sure my next ride the Monster 795 needs 95 RON too. The good old Kawa 650's can take 91 and that's all I used to put in my Er6n.

i didnt think they were allowed sell vehicles that cannot run on gasohol 91 in 2011

have you ever put 91 in and see what happened ?

The manual for the 2011 Vespa clearly states that it must be run on 95 RON. I haven't tried using 91 as its an expensive bike and parts would have to be imported. I would prefer not to use gasohol but where I live theres no choice.

i thought new engines had a electonic sensor that can adjust the mix for whatever you put in the tank whether its benzine ,gaso 91 or 95 and even e20 some of them can run on

i agree its not worth gambling with your new bike but if it has a electronic injection system it could probably handle 91

[BigBikeBKK]

Unfortunately some bikes have to use 95. My 2011 Vespa GTS SS has to have minimum 95 RON. I'm pretty sure my next ride the Monster 795 needs 95 RON too. The good old Kawa 650's can take 91 and that's all I used to put in my Er6n.

Unfortunately some bikes have to use 95. My 2011 Vespa GTS SS has to have minimum 95 RON. I'm pretty sure my next ride the Monster 795 needs 95 RON too. The good old Kawa 650's can take 91 and that's all I used to put in my Er6n.

i didnt think they were allowed sell vehicles that cannot run on gasohol 91 in 2011

Why would you think such a thing?!

[Dakling]

The whole 91 vs 95 debate is kinda wonky. All the numbers relate to is an octane rating which is only important to ensure high compression engines don't start knocking.

The only real differences between 91 and 95 benzene are: #1 95 is a bitch to find and almost no one in Thailand uses it so there is more likely hood you will have water or other contaminants; #2 if you have a higher compression bike (or a bike in a very poor state of tune), 95 will prevent knocking (pre-detonation) at temperature and under load. If your bike doesn't require high octane fuel you are wasting your money buying it. Don't get snowed by all the engine cleaning additive BS claims as well they do nothing to help a properly maintained bike. If you do notice a difference in performance due to fuel and you are running allowed fuel for your bike, 90% of the time you got a bad tankful, you ran ethanol at a higher percent than normal or your bike needs a tune up.

Messing with your ignition advance and using things like a power commander may require a switch to 95 if you start to have knocking issues. Granted I think pretty much all modern bikes have anti-knock sensors so you may not even know that the EFI has retarded your timing to prevent knock. That's about the only way I would imagine you would see a hp decrease. A heavily modified bike(shaved heads etc.) or poorly tuned bike or one with adjusted advance timing may need a higher octane than the manufacturer recommended but other than those examples, upping octane is generally a waste of $.

[wana]

Unfortunately some bikes have to use 95. My 2011 Vespa GTS SS has to have minimum 95 RON. I'm pretty sure my next ride the Monster 795 needs 95 RON too. The good old Kawa 650's can take 91 and that's all I used to put in my Er6n.

Unfortunately some bikes have to use 95. My 2011 Vespa GTS SS has to have minimum 95 RON. I'm pretty sure my next ride the Monster 795 needs 95 RON too. The good old Kawa 650's can take 91 and that's all I used to put in my Er6n.

i didnt think they were allowed sell vehicles that cannot run on gasohol 91 in 2011

Why would you think such a thing?!

because everyone is being pushed away from benzine fuels and gasohol 91 is seemingly the most popular fuel in thailand now

am i being lectured by a bonehead who thinks bikes can ride submerged under water ? LOLZ

what next ?

[katabeachbum]

i thought new engines had a electonic sensor that can adjust the mix for whatever you put in the tank whether its benzine ,gaso 91 or 95 and even e20 some of them can run on

i agree its not worth gambling with your new bike but if it has a electronic injection system it could probably handle 91

so wrong, on octane

it simply needs at least 95RON cause thats the lowest octane fuel it can use without engine/valves knocking. engine knocking is broke in a few hundred or thousand km

so wrong on ethanol

the amount ethanol in fuel a fuelsystem, starting at filler cap and ending at valve letting gas into cylinder, can handle depends on what it is made from. Some plastic and rubber parts are not Ethanol capabel at all, some can handle 10% some 20% extremely few can handle 85%

There are presently 4 E85 compatibel cars available in TH, daewo/chevy 2,4, mitsu 1,8 and volvo s80 2,5 ft and volvo s60 1,6ft

They have a huge tax discount as E85 compatibel, anyone else abel to run it would claim it instantly

In addition the fuel system needs to recognise the fuel to be able to run E85, as much more fuel is needed. It needs to run some 30-40% richer with this fuel and leaner with petrol

[katabeachbum]

The whole 91 vs 95 debate is kinda wonky. All the numbers relate to is an octane rating which is only important to ensure high compression engines don't start knocking.

The only real differences between 91 and 95 benzene are: #1 95 is a bitch to find and almost no one in Thailand uses it so there is more likely hood you will have water or other contaminants; #2 if you have a higher compression bike (or a bike in a very poor state of tune), 95 will prevent knocking (pre-detonation) at temperature and under load. If your bike doesn't require high octane fuel you are wasting your money buying it. Don't get snowed by all the engine cleaning additive BS claims as well they do nothing to help a properly maintained bike. If you do notice a difference in performance due to fuel and you are running allowed fuel for your bike, 90% of the time you got a bad tankful, you ran ethanol at a higher percent than normal or your bike needs a tune up.

Messing with your ignition advance and using things like a power commander may require a switch to 95 if you start to have knocking issues. Granted I think pretty much all modern bikes have anti-knock sensors so you may not even know that the EFI has retarded your timing to prevent knock. That's about the only way I would imagine you would see a hp decrease. A heavily modified bike(shaved heads etc.) or poorly tuned bike or one with adjusted advance timing may need a higher octane than the manufacturer recommended but other than those examples, upping octane is generally a waste of $.

could you mention at least 5 bikes available in Th with a knock sensor?

and could you explain why most countries in Europe do not have petrol less than 95RON any more?

[BigBikeBKK]

Why would you think such a thing?!

because everyone is being pushed away from benzine fuels and gasohol 91 is seemingly the most popular fuel in thailand now

am i being lectured by a bonehead who thinks bikes can ride submerged under water ? LOLZ

what next ?

You're flat wrong about the availability of cars and bikes in Thailand that cannot run on gasohol 91. Next smart comment?