Thai Education Minister Suchart Welcomes 'Donations' To Schools

[Reasonableman]

Except that you'll now have to pay both legal AND illegal tea money, and only the rich and powerful will be able to pay, or avoid paying. I thought this government wanted to make all Thais prosperous, and one way was through improved access to a quality education. This system is a huge barrier to the poor but gifted student, and ensures the poor remain poor and poorly educated. Apparently, the Minister wishes to institutionalize it.

It seems like a great idea to me. It takes away the hypocrisy and brings it all out into the open. Bring it out into the open instead of keeping it under the table and it will be no different to any other country that has fee-paying schools.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Reasonableman

[anon467367354]

it may be me, but if they actually do away with all the corruption, use the money gained from that, I think 1/6th of the economy is lost to corruption. If people just did the right thing, everybody would prosper, what a wonderful country this could be. But this separation, the racism, the rich and poor, the haves and have nots. This school "donation" BS is nothing more than bribery and despicable. What is worrysome to me is, where is the shame? It's like watching people unload a truckload of trash onto the side of the road in broad daylight and no shame. call it what you want, but this country would be the easiest in the world to take over becuase the government would easily sell themselves out cheap cheap. No shame in being a whore in this country.

[Thaddeus]

Except that you'll now have to pay both legal AND illegal tea money, and only the rich and powerful will be able to pay, or avoid paying. I thought this government wanted to make all Thais prosperous, and one way was through improved access to a quality education. This system is a huge barrier to the poor but gifted student, and ensures the poor remain poor and poorly educated. Apparently, the Minister wishes to institutionalize it.

It seems like a great idea to me. It takes away the hypocrisy and brings it all out into the open. Bring it out into the open instead of keeping it under the table and it will be no different to any other country that has fee-paying school.

A resounding +1

[edwardandtubs]

Except that you'll now have to pay both legal AND illegal tea money, and only the rich and powerful will be able to pay, or avoid paying. I thought this government wanted to make all Thais prosperous, and one way was through improved access to a quality education. This system is a huge barrier to the poor but gifted student, and ensures the poor remain poor and poorly educated. Apparently, the Minister wishes to institutionalize it.

The rich and powerful will send their kids to Eton just like the rich and powerful do in a lot of countries. The more money you have, the better education your kid will get. Nothing will change there, but at least the deceit and hypocrisy will be gone (or at least less) and schools will have more money to spend so it should benefit all students to some extent.

[whybother]

Except that you'll now have to pay both legal AND illegal tea money, and only the rich and powerful will be able to pay, or avoid paying. I thought this government wanted to make all Thais prosperous, and one way was through improved access to a quality education. This system is a huge barrier to the poor but gifted student, and ensures the poor remain poor and poorly educated. Apparently, the Minister wishes to institutionalize it.

The rich and powerful will send their kids to Eton just like the rich and powerful do in a lot of countries. The more money you have, the better education your kid will get. Nothing will change there, but at least the deceit and hypocrisy will be gone (or at least less) and schools will have more money to spend so it should benefit all students to some extent.

From my understanding, the tea money doesn't necessarily go to the schools. They often go to the people making the decision about who gets to go to the school.

[Roadman]

I don't see the problem for the poor of Isaan. Their 4 yearly ฿500 Thaksin gift will buy their children an excellent education. Great idea from this outstanding honest minister within this awesome government.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Roadman

[americaninbangkok]

So... how much did this Minister pay for his piece of paper?

[tlansford]

- sniper -

Thank you for asking Reasonable man.

I made some inquiries, with the following points being made, in no particular order:

• This is nothing new. It has been going on for many years. To try and stop it would be well-nigh impossible.
  
• Best to make it transparent.
  
• Many schools ask parents for money. In an example personally experienced during my years of teaching English some time ago, was teaching at a local school where enrollment requests exeeded availablity. I recall seeing parents huddled with the Director, and it didn't take a genius to figure out what was happening.
  
• In some cases, schools ask money from parents, in some cases parents urge money onto the school.
  
• Questions need to be asked, where does this money go. To confront this would obviously be of concern to the Opposition, from whence this money flow mainly originates......frankly, that is where the money is.
  
• Increased transparency and scrutiny is urged by the Minister for a practice that cannot be prevented. In other words, "follow the money".
  
• Trying to prevent this practice would piss off a lot of parents, who are focussed on one particular school for their little Johnie or Sally. If it was prevented, they would find another way.
  
• As opposed to engaging in self-righteous indignation about an established practice, sentiments could better be focussed on transparency of this issue.
  
• But if it serves the Opposition to demonize the Education Minister by characterizing this practice a certain way, is par-for-the-course.
  
• In particular, they have the MO of "laundering" their agenda through others. Many times creations of their own, but ostensibly separate. At the very least an entity of other Oppositional elements. I bet none of you have heard of "Building Thailand Club" as referenced in this article. I haven't either.
  

Yawn...

Lots of totally meaningless words, another amsterdam graduate.

Wow, scorecard, how many milliseconds did it take to cut & paste that thoughtful response?

[tlansford]

looking at the article, there are many points which are not clear, but this looks like something that allows the well-off to compete among themselves for their children's schooling, and not much else. Basically, it only really applies to the rich. Thailand's 1% as it were.

C & others made some points about increasing transparency - if that is the result, then there is probably some improvement.

Like Mitt Romney, I am not worried about the rich, they are doing just fine. Unlike Mitt Romney, I do worry about the poor. It is my firm belief that the education system from start to end is the responsibility of the government and should be adequately funded and managed. Education is an important investment for any country.

But to come back to my first statement, this change in policy does not seem to be an across-the-board plea from the gov't to help fund education, but rather giving permission for a narrow segment of society to buy their kid a place at a school with a name.

[tlansford]

The problem with saying things like "....places like Thailand! That is precisely why this place is so terrible." is that it begs the question what are you doing here then?! Yes, it really is terrible here, that's why I live here and spend all of my free time posting on a forum about Thailand.

It amazes me the amount of Thai bashers on this forum, why? For me this country is a breath of fresh air from the Nanny states of Europe and US, no it's not perfect, nowhere is, but there's a hell of alot going for it here.

Without wanting to get drawn into a general red/ yellow shirt, ferang/ thai, corruption debate, surely making such transactions transparent is the start of change for the better, regardless of the motivation behind it...

Transparent! Where does it say that it will be transparent?

in the OP

[Roadman]

looking at the article, there are many points which are not clear, but this looks like something that allows the well-off to compete among themselves for their children's schooling, and not much else. Basically, it only really applies to the rich. Thailand's 1% as it were.

C & others made some points about increasing transparency - if that is the result, then there is probably some improvement.

Like Mitt Romney, I am not worried about the rich, they are doing just fine. Unlike Mitt Romney, I do worry about the poor. It is my firm belief that the education system from start to end is the responsibility of the government and should be adequately funded and managed. Education is an important investment for any country.

But to come back to my first statement, this change in policy does not seem to be an across-the-board plea from the gov't to help fund education, but rather giving permission for a narrow segment of society to buy their kid a place at a school with a name.

The public schools in Udon Thani (the heart of the poor) where the practice is already occuring with payments to teachers (and now given the green light to progress further) I would not class as schools with a name.

[gl555]

Red scum trying to legalise corruption! Well done PTP!

[hanuman1]

The way I see it, it could have gone one of two ways:

Don't legalize it - it will continue just as it has done in the past.

Legalize it - it will continue just as it has done in the past, but with the potential to tax it.

There is nothing in history to suggest a government of any persuation would stop it happening in any case.

Edited February 14, 2012 by hanuman1

[z12]

How about making the school FREE as advertised and throwing any tea money takers in JAIL.

Even if the use the "do you know who i am" defense.

Do what the USA did, have a tax law and if they don't declare their tea money and pay taxes, they get thrown in jail.

simple.

Edited February 14, 2012 by z12

[tlansford]

looking at the article, there are many points which are not clear, but this looks like something that allows the well-off to compete among themselves for their children's schooling, and not much else. Basically, it only really applies to the rich. Thailand's 1% as it were.

C & others made some points about increasing transparency - if that is the result, then there is probably some improvement.

Like Mitt Romney, I am not worried about the rich, they are doing just fine. Unlike Mitt Romney, I do worry about the poor. It is my firm belief that the education system from start to end is the responsibility of the government and should be adequately funded and managed. Education is an important investment for any country.

But to come back to my first statement, this change in policy does not seem to be an across-the-board plea from the gov't to help fund education, but rather giving permission for a narrow segment of society to buy their kid a place at a school with a name.

The public schools in Udon Thani (the heart of the poor) where the practice is already occuring with payments to teachers (and now given the green light to progress further) I would not class as schools with a name.

That's interesting. What do the parents get/expect in return for the money given to teachers?

[473geo]

My parents paid for my education......some may say it was wasted.......none have said it was corruption.....

[Roadman]

looking at the article, there are many points which are not clear, but this looks like something that allows the well-off to compete among themselves for their children's schooling, and not much else. Basically, it only really applies to the rich. Thailand's 1% as it were.

C & others made some points about increasing transparency - if that is the result, then there is probably some improvement.

Like Mitt Romney, I am not worried about the rich, they are doing just fine. Unlike Mitt Romney, I do worry about the poor. It is my firm belief that the education system from start to end is the responsibility of the government and should be adequately funded and managed. Education is an important investment for any country.

But to come back to my first statement, this change in policy does not seem to be an across-the-board plea from the gov't to help fund education, but rather giving permission for a narrow segment of society to buy their kid a place at a school with a name.

The public schools in Udon Thani (the heart of the poor) where the practice is already occuring with payments to teachers (and now given the green light to progress further) I would not class as schools with a name.

That's interesting. What do the parents get/expect in return for the money given to teachers?

Their eternal gratitude and right of privilege, and lots of tea for their party.

The money that will see it in to that school will only be spent at that school so there will be no revenue for the government who will still be funding that school to a higher tune than the rural school in the back sticks of Buri Ram - after it has been cut by the school gathers and at 2 or 3 times the earnings of a relative rated police officer, so of all public servants do not need it, nor, the more that is now being green lighted). And the only revenue that will be collected is by the VAT tax mostly from the staff personal spending.

There will be nothing more (even what they were getting under the Dems is fast being eroded across the board by Phua Thai brilliance) for the schools where it is needed, not even now a laptop that the family nor local school could not sustain anyhow - but hey, hey there poor Isaan rice farmer daughter with no electricity at home and no money and no resources apart from her mid-day meal at school, - "I have rice miss, oh no wait my Dad traded all that for the distilled rice", “and the big guys Baht 500 didn’t last long but hey Dad was happy for a whole week”.

Where do all good teachers and resources go? There is absolutely nothing for rural Isaan who needs it the most. It will find its way however to the Phua Thai and Red Elite, and the schools and teachers who need it least.

Problem is in Isaan and especially in the stronghold of the Red leadership affiliated directly to Phua Thai it is little more that Burma / Thai border style governance. The ones being paid to keep the vote count under control are nothing more than local thugs and low life. I wonder when those Reds with even a basic education or realisation of what is going on around them will realise that this government is screwing them over big time. The other greedier Elite are now in the troughs.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Roadman

[Roadman]

My parents paid for my education......some may say it was wasted.......none have said it was corruption.....

And if from a western country while they were paying for your wastage, that western government would have been taking cuts from here, there and anywhere so that even the most destitude in your country would have at least a reasonably resourced school education provided well into their teenage years with well maintained governance in place. I'm sure the teachers at western schools would have been focused on the few pens that they might make off with, not the schools income.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Roadman

[Thaddeus]

Except that you'll now have to pay both legal AND illegal tea money, and only the rich and powerful will be able to pay, or avoid paying. I thought this government wanted to make all Thais prosperous, and one way was through improved access to a quality education. This system is a huge barrier to the poor but gifted student, and ensures the poor remain poor and poorly educated. Apparently, the Minister wishes to institutionalize it.

The rich and powerful will send their kids to Eton just like the rich and powerful do in a lot of countries. The more money you have, the better education your kid will get.

Missing the point completely.

The wealthy have always had the option of sending their offspring to fee paying schools.

Non-fee paying schools are meant to be a level playing field for all.

[scorecard]

looking at the article, there are many points which are not clear, but this looks like something that allows the well-off to compete among themselves for their children's schooling, and not much else. Basically, it only really applies to the rich. Thailand's 1% as it were.

C & others made some points about increasing transparency - if that is the result, then there is probably some improvement.

Like Mitt Romney, I am not worried about the rich, they are doing just fine. Unlike Mitt Romney, I do worry about the poor. It is my firm belief that the education system from start to end is the responsibility of the government and should be adequately funded and managed. Education is an important investment for any country.

But to come back to my first statement, this change in policy does not seem to be an across-the-board plea from the gov't to help fund education, but rather giving permission for a narrow segment of society to buy their kid a place at a school with a name.

Wrong, and you know it, your just desperate to try to protect the pt minister.

Under the table payments has been here for decades and it goes on at schools in all categories.

Just one example, closest government schools to some Thai relatvies (in Essan) is about 10 minutes drive, and the school has, locally, a prestigious name, just because it has a big and beautiful marble sign along the front fence and beautiful gardens).

The school headmaster arrives every morning in his chauffeur driven merc. The school is very lacking in quality in terms of education outputs.

Next neatest school is 25 minutes drive away, has no marble sign, whole thing is very basic. Also very lacking in quality in terms of education outputs.

Given the Thai mindset, cultural drivers etc., our relatives asked to borrow money for the under the table paymenet (no documents whatever) so that their daughter could go the government school with the beautiful marble sign.

It's corruption, nothing more and nothing less.

Edited February 15, 2012 by scorecard

[Reasonableman]

looking at the article, there are many points which are not clear, but this looks like something that allows the well-off to compete among themselves for their children's schooling, and not much else. Basically, it only really applies to the rich. Thailand's 1% as it were.

C & others made some points about increasing transparency - if that is the result, then there is probably some improvement.

Like Mitt Romney, I am not worried about the rich, they are doing just fine. Unlike Mitt Romney, I do worry about the poor. It is my firm belief that the education system from start to end is the responsibility of the government and should be adequately funded and managed. Education is an important investment for any country.

But to come back to my first statement, this change in policy does not seem to be an across-the-board plea from the gov't to help fund education, but rather giving permission for a narrow segment of society to buy their kid a place at a school with a name.

You seem to have forgotten about Thailand's educated middle-income, middle class, who want their kids to have the best education, and hopefully produce an educated, informed, and ethical leadership for the whole of Thailand in the future. They are not rich. Many live in cities; that doesn't make them an elite or automatically "the enemy" in some farcical self-destructive social war. In my opinion, the educated middle class, and their children, offer the best hope for Thailand's future. This system serves to perpetuate the rich family's access to the best educational opportunities, while both the poor and middle classes are excluded, not by lack of ability, but merely by lack of money.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Reasonableman

[Ferangled]

Scorecard, your post says it all; how do you expect the current government to stop this system of under the table bribes to schools when it is so ingrained into the Thai mindset. Let's be honest this isn't a system monopolised by the education sector, it is a trend that runs through the entire Thai society.

At least they are bringing this issue to light and trying to govern it. If it is made transparent at least there's a chance that the money won't end up in the pockets of the "chauffeur driven headmaster", but might actually be used to do something constructive for the school.

It's not like donations to state schools aren't made in the west, they are, many survive on these and fund raisers because government funding is inadequate. There are schools all over US and UK with sports halls, playing fields, science labs etc named after wealthy patrons and be sure their children wouldn't be refused entry into said schools. I see nothing wrong with that at all; it's to the benefit of the general populace of the school and local community.

What I do find despicable is that left as it stands this custom of under the table bribery leaves parents vulnerable to exploitation from teachers with no idea how their "donation" money is to be spent.

All the while parents are willing to borrow money so that Somchai can go to the school with the shiny sign, this sort of corruption will exist in Thailand. It's the same as the 10000s of Thai's up to their ears in debt with mobile phones worth 3 months salary, and cars worth 10 years salary, purely so that they can gain face and perceived social standing... the fact is you can still make a call with a 500 bt phone, still drive to work with a 50,000 bt truck so why are there so many Thais with 20,000 bt iPhones and 1,000,000 bt Fortuners? This issue goes alot further than just education...

[z12]

Where corruption thrives, there is no character, no honor, no honestty and no face to lose nor protect.

Face was lost a long long long time ago and all the lying in the world will not put the face facade back.

Edited February 15, 2012 by z12

[jambco984]

_{how embarassing for the thai gov;t , ....seems the same the world over though ,......... governments are looking to the rich to make donations , its crazy , why does anyone need 9000000000000000000000000000000000000 dollars ?, capitalism gone mad , soooooooo many greedy b**tards out there watching their fellow humans living hand to mouth , struggling to get an education ,.............99% of wealth is owned by 1% ,................<deleted> !! sad ................... VIVE LA REVELUTION !!.....}

_{Sorry,...........nearly started a coup then}

Over the years I have been involved with the so called University system here, and its all about money. They use the pretext of caring about the students and offering all the fancy BS programs with fancy names, but its really like sign up, pay your money, put in a small effort, and your likely to pass. If not, well it's the teachers fault and BTW, we at least have some of your money. If I could only go further and tell you what I've learned from the experience, but not a good idea. Most, with experience, already know.

+1 to all of what you said

[jambco984]

On a separate note, I'm a teacher and if you would like to just donate money to me then that would be lovely.

Cut out the middlemen at the school and just give me the money, I have heard this sort of thing from Thai teachers, in exchange for looking out for little student cherrub.

[scorecard]

- sniper -

Thank you for asking Reasonable man.

I made some inquiries, with the following points being made, in no particular order:

• This is nothing new. It has been going on for many years. To try and stop it would be well-nigh impossible.
  
• Best to make it transparent.
  
• Many schools ask parents for money. In an example personally experienced during my years of teaching English some time ago, was teaching at a local school where enrollment requests exeeded availablity. I recall seeing parents huddled with the Director, and it didn't take a genius to figure out what was happening.
  
• In some cases, schools ask money from parents, in some cases parents urge money onto the school.
  
• Questions need to be asked, where does this money go. To confront this would obviously be of concern to the Opposition, from whence this money flow mainly originates......frankly, that is where the money is.
  
• Increased transparency and scrutiny is urged by the Minister for a practice that cannot be prevented. In other words, "follow the money".
  
• Trying to prevent this practice would piss off a lot of parents, who are focussed on one particular school for their little Johnie or Sally. If it was prevented, they would find another way.
  
• As opposed to engaging in self-righteous indignation about an established practice, sentiments could better be focussed on transparency of this issue.
  
• But if it serves the Opposition to demonize the Education Minister by characterizing this practice a certain way, is par-for-the-course.
  
• In particular, they have the MO of "laundering" their agenda through others. Many times creations of their own, but ostensibly separate. At the very least an entity of other Oppositional elements. I bet none of you have heard of "Building Thailand Club" as referenced in this article. I haven't either.
  

Yawn...

Lots of totally meaningless words, another amsterdam graduate.

Wow, scorecard, how many milliseconds did it take to cut & paste that thoughtful response?

Not long.

[Reasonableman]

- sniper -

Thank you for asking Reasonable man.

I made some inquiries, with the following points being made, in no particular order:

• This is nothing new. It has been going on for many years. To try and stop it would be well-nigh impossible.
  
• Best to make it transparent.
  
• Many schools ask parents for money. In an example personally experienced during my years of teaching English some time ago, was teaching at a local school where enrollment requests exeeded availablity. I recall seeing parents huddled with the Director, and it didn't take a genius to figure out what was happening.
  
• In some cases, schools ask money from parents, in some cases parents urge money onto the school.
  
• Questions need to be asked, where does this money go. To confront this would obviously be of concern to the Opposition, from whence this money flow mainly originates......frankly, that is where the money is.
  
• Increased transparency and scrutiny is urged by the Minister for a practice that cannot be prevented. In other words, "follow the money".
  
• Trying to prevent this practice would piss off a lot of parents, who are focussed on one particular school for their little Johnie or Sally. If it was prevented, they would find another way.
  
• As opposed to engaging in self-righteous indignation about an established practice, sentiments could better be focussed on transparency of this issue.
  
• But if it serves the Opposition to demonize the Education Minister by characterizing this practice a certain way, is par-for-the-course.
  
• In particular, they have the MO of "laundering" their agenda through others. Many times creations of their own, but ostensibly separate. At the very least an entity of other Oppositional elements. I bet none of you have heard of "Building Thailand Club" as referenced in this article. I haven't either.
  

Yawn...

Lots of totally meaningless words, another amsterdam graduate.

Wow, scorecard, how many milliseconds did it take to cut & paste that thoughtful response?

Not long.

Probably as long as it took to find the meat in this tasteless vegeburger.

[Ferangled]

Scorecard/ Reasonableman - I'm interested, what would your approach be to stop the existing culture of bribery for school seats? Would it be to make it illegal?

Oh, it is already?... that hasn't worked then... .

What do you suggest? Should the education minister just ignore the subject as per his predecessors and let it continue as is behind closed doors and out of the public eye?

[robertson468]

Nice, from conveniently ignoring corruption and trying to eradicate it now PTP makes it a policy.

The number one problem of Thailand is rampant corruption, and since PTP is pro corruption things are bound to get worse.

Wonder how amstedam would spin this?

Dead easy, "this is NOT corruption, you hear me, that's a dirty, dirty word so we do not ever use it, ever. This is called DONATION. You spell this word "c-o-r-r-u-p-t-i-o-n and pronounce it DONATION!! Okay?

[lannarebirth]

Nice, from conveniently ignoring corruption and trying to eradicate it now PTP makes it a policy.

The number one problem of Thailand is rampant corruption, and since PTP is pro corruption things are bound to get worse.

Wonder how amstedam would spin this?

Dead easy, "this is NOT corruption, you hear me, that's a dirty, dirty word so we do not ever use it, ever. This is called DONATION. You spell this word "c-o-r-r-u-p-t-i-o-n and pronounce it DONATION!! Okay?

Absolutely! That's how the "enhanced" police protection works too. If you've the money to "donate" for a red box outside your home or business establishment you'll be sure to get a bigger slice of that "equal protection of the law" and most especially "equal protection from the law".