Uk Unmarried Partner Visa

[farmerfred]

Hello,

I am after some clarification on: 'you have been living together in a relationship akin to marriage or civil partnership which has been existing and genuine (not like a 'marriage of convenience') for at least 2 years'.

Now I have read in some places you can have up to 3 months apart during this time and another 6 months apart. Which would be right at present, if either? My girlfriend lived with me for about 2 years but it may just fall under 2 years when she returned to Thailand. If the period doesn't stretch over 2 years would this be deemed inadmissable (23 months)? Also this was from 2008-2010, Hope that's not too long ago. She has been back since for 6 months visit and I over to Thailand.

Thanks for any help on this.

[RAZZELL]

I'm a bit confused, where did you "live together in a relationship akin to marriage" for 2 years? In the UK?

If so, what visa was she on?

I think applying when you were together over a year ago would be a non-starter.

RAZZ

Edited February 14, 2012 by RAZZELL

[VisasPlus]

I think the wording in the immigration rules is clear :

]

(i) (a)(i) the applicant is the unmarried or same-sex partner of a person present and settled in the United Kingdom or who is on the same occasion being admitted for settlement and the parties have been living together in a relationship akin to marriage or civil partnership which has subsisted for two years or more;

It states " have been living together....................... " This doesn't mean at some time in the past. It means currently living together. To be pedantic, I think the grammatical definition of "

have been

(living )" is the present perfect continuous tense which is "

"something started in the past and has continued up until now."

I may be totally wrong, of course, and am happy to be corrected

On the other point, 23 months is not 2 years. The application will be refused if you can only show that you have been living together for less than 2 years.

RAZZELL has a good question - what was she doing in the UK for 2 years ?

Edited February 15, 2012 by VisasPlus

[farmerfred]

Thanks for the replies- I just wanted to make sure that's all. She was at uni for one year, applied for an extension, which got ballsed up and didn't get a definite answer from UKBA until about 9 months after her application.

[VisasPlus]

Thanks for the replies- I just wanted to make sure that's all. She was at uni for one year, applied for an extension, which got ballsed up and didn't get a definite answer from UKBA until about 9 months after her application.

And the answer was......................? It could make a difference to any application.

[farmerfred]

It was refused under a technicality. It was at the time when student visa rules changed. She applied under the old rules, there was a problem with UKBA taking the payment, 3 months later they let her know about this, resubmitted application which then came under the new rules (about extending visas) and was refused. She had a 6 month visit visa no questions asked last year, and has traveled back and forth 4 times to Thailand so hopefully that stands for something.

[VisasPlus]

It was refused under a technicality. It was at the time when student visa rules changed. She applied under the old rules, there was a problem with UKBA taking the payment, 3 months later they let her know about this, resubmitted application which then came under the new rules (about extending visas) and was refused. She had a 6 month visit visa no questions asked last year, and has traveled back and forth 4 times to Thailand so hopefully that stands for something.

It should do.

[RAZZELL]

So I think the answer is no you couldn't apply.

Interesting though, if someone was in the UK on a student visa could they go down this route?

RAZZ

[jackinbkk]

I lived with my partner in Thailand for 20 months in 2008 to 2010. She came to England for 6 months in 2010, back to Thailand for 4 month. Back again to UK for 6 months 2011. Made application for unmarried partner. It passed. I went to Thailand during times spent apart for holidays etc. I could show financial support through out though. Came back to UK for change of jobs.

I think these requirements are guidelines. I however got an EEA family permit. You can always try and see what they say. True it may be a very expensive experiment.

best of luck!

[VisasPlus]

I lived with my partner in Thailand for 20 months in 2008 to 2010. She came to England for 6 months in 2010, back to Thailand for 4 month. Back again to UK for 6 months 2011. Made application for unmarried partner. It passed. I went to Thailand during times spent apart for holidays etc. I could show financial support through out though. Came back to UK for change of jobs.

I think these requirements are guidelines. I however got an EEA family permit. You can always try and see what they say. True it may be a very expensive experiment.

best of luck!

That is not actually very helpful at all. If you applied for an EEA family permit then it is not a visa issued under the immigration rules. Plus, the requirements for a UK visa ( not an EEA family permit) are not guidelines, they are rules. I realise that you are trying to be helpful, but giving wrong advice does not help at all.

[jackinbkk]

I lived with my partner in Thailand for 20 months in 2008 to 2010. She came to England for 6 months in 2010, back to Thailand for 4 month. Back again to UK for 6 months 2011. Made application for unmarried partner. It passed. I went to Thailand during times spent apart for holidays etc. I could show financial support through out though. Came back to UK for change of jobs.

I think these requirements are guidelines. I however got an EEA family permit. You can always try and see what they say. True it may be a very expensive experiment.

best of luck!

That is not actually very helpful at all. If you applied for an EEA family permit then it is not a visa issued under the immigration rules. Plus, the requirements for a UK visa ( not an EEA family permit) are not guidelines, they are rules. I realise that you are trying to be helpful, but giving wrong advice does not help at all.

hmm that really odd because reading the UK border agency's own website it says:

This is internal guidance for use by entry clearance staff on the handling of Armed forces applications made outside the United Kingdom (UK). It is a live document under constant review and is for information only.

EUN02 - EEA Family permits

EUN2.11 How do unmarried partners qualify for an EEA family permit?

An unmarried partner can be considered for an EEA family permit as an extended family member if they are in a 'durable relationship' with the EEA national and would satisfy similar criteria used for unmarried partners under paragraph 295A of the Immigration Rules, that is, that the that the parties have been living together in a relationship skin to marriage or civil partnership which has subsisted for at least 2 years. This does not mean that unmarried partners are assessed or have to meet paragraph 295A or the Immigration rules. Rather, the ECO will have to consider factors such as the length of cohabitation, joint finances, whether the couple have children together etc. to establish whether or not the relationship is 'durable'. Each case must be looked at on its own merits. While regulation 12(2) makes provision for the issuing of a Family permit to extended family members (including unmarried partners), ECOs should be aware that simply meeting the extended family member criteria is insufficient. Even where an ECO is satisfied that the applicant is in a 'durable' relationship, the ECO needs to go on to consider whether, in all the circumstances, it appears to the entry clearance officer appropriate to issue the family permit' (Regulation 12(2)©. Factors to be considered here would include things such as evidence of criminality.

Edited February 15, 2012 by jackinbkk

[VisasPlus]

I lived with my partner in Thailand for 20 months in 2008 to 2010. She came to England for 6 months in 2010, back to Thailand for 4 month. Back again to UK for 6 months 2011. Made application for unmarried partner. It passed. I went to Thailand during times spent apart for holidays etc. I could show financial support through out though. Came back to UK for change of jobs.

I think these requirements are guidelines. I however got an EEA family permit. You can always try and see what they say. True it may be a very expensive experiment.

best of luck!

That is not actually very helpful at all. If you applied for an EEA family permit then it is not a visa issued under the immigration rules. Plus, the requirements for a UK visa ( not an EEA family permit) are not guidelines, they are rules. I realise that you are trying to be helpful, but giving wrong advice does not help at all.

hmm that really odd because reading the UK border agency's own website it says:

This is internal guidance for use by entry clearance staff on the handling of Armed forces applications made outside the United Kingdom (UK). It is a live document under constant review and is for information only.

EUN02 - EEA Family permits

EUN2.11 How do unmarried partners qualify for an EEA family permit?

An unmarried partner can be considered for an EEA family permit as an extended family member if they are in a 'durable relationship' with the EEA national and would satisfy similar criteria used for unmarried partners under paragraph 295A of the Immigration Rules, that is, that the that the parties have been living together in a relationship skin to marriage or civil partnership which has subsisted for at least 2 years. This does not mean that unmarried partners are assessed or have to meet paragraph 295A or the Immigration rules. Rather, the ECO will have to consider factors such as the length of cohabitation, joint finances, whether the couple have children together etc. to establish whether or not the relationship is 'durable'. Each case must be looked at on its own merits. While regulation 12(2) makes provision for the issuing of a Family permit to extended family members (including unmarried partners), ECOs should be aware that simply meeting the extended family member criteria is insufficient. Even where an ECO is satisfied that the applicant is in a 'durable' relationship, the ECO needs to go on to consider whether, in all the circumstances, it appears to the entry clearance officer appropriate to issue the family permit' (Regulation 12(2)©. Factors to be considered here would include things such as evidence of criminality.

Why is that really odd ? The requirement for EEA family permits that you have quoted states "............with the EEA national and would satisfy similar criteria used for unmarried partners under paragraph 295A of the Immigration Rules," . As it says, EEA legislation uses similar requirements to the immigration rules, but applications are considered under EU legislation, not the immigration rules. EU legislation basically requires only that the couple are married or in a durable relationship. Presumably you hold an Irish passport, or other EU document, as well as a British passport, and because of this you were able to apply for your partner under EU legislation. If so, then it is not right, or fair, to compare your circumstances to the OP's. In addition, your application would have been free, and the OP's under the immigration rules will cost 810 GBP. So, it's not really the same situation is it ?

Edited February 16, 2012 by VisasPlus

[jackinbkk]

I lived with my partner in Thailand for 20 months in 2008 to 2010. She came to England for 6 months in 2010, back to Thailand for 4 month. Back again to UK for 6 months 2011. Made application for unmarried partner. It passed. I went to Thailand during times spent apart for holidays etc. I could show financial support through out though. Came back to UK for change of jobs.

I think these requirements are guidelines. I however got an EEA family permit. You can always try and see what they say. True it may be a very expensive experiment.

best of luck!

That is not actually very helpful at all. If you applied for an EEA family permit then it is not a visa issued under the immigration rules. Plus, the requirements for a UK visa ( not an EEA family permit) are not guidelines, they are rules. I realise that you are trying to be helpful, but giving wrong advice does not help at all.

hmm that really odd because reading the UK border agency's own website it says:

This is internal guidance for use by entry clearance staff on the handling of Armed forces applications made outside the United Kingdom (UK). It is a live document under constant review and is for information only.

EUN02 - EEA Family permits

EUN2.11 How do unmarried partners qualify for an EEA family permit?

An unmarried partner can be considered for an EEA family permit as an extended family member if they are in a 'durable relationship' with the EEA national and would satisfy similar criteria used for unmarried partners under paragraph 295A of the Immigration Rules, that is, that the that the parties have been living together in a relationship skin to marriage or civil partnership which has subsisted for at least 2 years. This does not mean that unmarried partners are assessed or have to meet paragraph 295A or the Immigration rules. Rather, the ECO will have to consider factors such as the length of cohabitation, joint finances, whether the couple have children together etc. to establish whether or not the relationship is 'durable'. Each case must be looked at on its own merits. While regulation 12(2) makes provision for the issuing of a Family permit to extended family members (including unmarried partners), ECOs should be aware that simply meeting the extended family member criteria is insufficient. Even where an ECO is satisfied that the applicant is in a 'durable' relationship, the ECO needs to go on to consider whether, in all the circumstances, it appears to the entry clearance officer appropriate to issue the family permit' (Regulation 12(2)©. Factors to be considered here would include things such as evidence of criminality.

Why is that really odd ? The requirement for EEA family permits that you have quoted states "............with the EEA national and would satisfy similar criteria used for unmarried partners under paragraph 295A of the Immigration Rules," . As it says, EEA legislation uses similar requirements to the immigration rules, but applications are considered under EU legislation, not the immigration rules. EU legislation basically requires only that the couple are married or in a durable relationship. Presumably you hold an Irish passport, or other EU document, as well as a British passport, and because of this you were able to apply for your partner under EU legislation. If so, then it is not right, or fair, to compare your circumstances to the OP's. In addition, your application would have been free, and the OP's under the immigration rules will cost 810 GBP. So, it's not really the same situation is it ?

Hence in my previous post above:

You can always try and see what they say. True it may be a very expensive experiment.

EU rules also pointed out living together for 2 years. We were not. I only urge the op to find out if it is a guideline or a black and white rule. I would suspect it is a guideline.

SET05 - Unmarried and same-sex partners

Settlement (SET)

This is internal guidance for use by entry clearance staff on the handling of settlement in the United Kingdom (UK) visa applications made outside the UK. It is a live document under constant review and is for information only.

SET5.4 How do unmarried / same-sex partners qualify?

Immigration Rules Part 8 paragraphs 295AA - 295O. (This being where the 2 year requirement is raised.)

If the op can provide lots of information supporting his case they may be lenient on the full 2 years?

[VisasPlus]

jackinbkk

I'm not sure why you find this so difficult to understand. The immigration rules are not guidelines. If they were then they would be called the immigration guidelines. They are rules. Advising the OP to "try and see" is not good advice when it is costing him 810 GBP.

I note that you have not commented on your own application. Was it made under EU legislation because you are a dual national ? EU legislation is totally different from UK law. You basically need only to prove the relationship. If you compare this with the immigration rules you will see the difference.

[farmerfred]

I know of someone who has managed to apply for a visit visa for marriage (6 months) successfully for a thai fiancee and she is now happily in the UK. I think they plan to apply for another visa without leaving the UK. My understanding was that you have to leave within 6 months for this visa and in fact you need the pricey fiancee visa. They declared their intent in the application and it went through fine. What are the chances of being able to remain in UK after the visit visa for marriage? I may end up going this route to save the £££s! Thanks for the advice.

[VisasPlus]

I know of someone who has managed to apply for a visit visa for marriage (6 months) successfully for a thai fiancee and she is now happily in the UK. I think they plan to apply for another visa without leaving the UK. My understanding was that you have to leave within 6 months for this visa and in fact you need the pricey fiancee visa. They declared their intent in the application and it went through fine. What are the chances of being able to remain in UK after the visit visa for marriage? I may end up going this route to save the £££s! Thanks for the advice.

The chances are fairly slim. The object of a marriage visit visa is to get married in the UK and then leave. Some people have managed to stay on in the UK, that is their applications to remain have been accepted by the Home Office. However, it will not be any cheaper - you will pay for the marriage visit visa in Thailand, then pay to extend the limited leave to remain in the UK for 2 years. It actually works out more expensive.

I'm not sure what you mean by they declared their intent in the application. If they applied for a marriage visit visa, but stated that they would seek leave to remain after 6 months, then the visa would have been refused. If they can show otherwise, that is a copy of their application and letter of intent to stay on in the UK after 6 months, then I would be very grateful to see the evidence. It would create a precedent in visa applications that could be useful. Somehow I doubt that is what happened.

Edited February 18, 2012 by VisasPlus

[RAZZELL]

Farmerfred - Are you sure they didn't get a fiancee visa then FLR?

RAZZ

[bobrussell]

I know of someone who has managed to apply for a visit visa for marriage (6 months) successfully for a thai fiancee and she is now happily in the UK. I think they plan to apply for another visa without leaving the UK. My understanding was that you have to leave within 6 months for this visa and in fact you need the pricey fiancee visa. They declared their intent in the application and it went through fine. What are the chances of being able to remain in UK after the visit visa for marriage? I may end up going this route to save the £££s! Thanks for the advice.

Not a hope in hell unless there are very very clear extenuating circumstances. A visit visa is just that! My wife had problems with the UKBA because they thought she might try to do this! She had no intention of trying to by-pass the rules!

[farmerfred]

There may have been a misunderstanding when I asked a relation of the couple's application. It does seem unlikely that if you spilled the beans on your intent to stay on after your visit for marriage then your visa would be refused. I had not heard it being done before and thought it foolhardy that you would not follow the correct procedure. I'll verify the facts once I catch up with them.

[bkk_mike]

If you've been together 4 years, (since 2008 is mentioned) you might be better off getting a visit visa initially and have your partner do the Life in the UK test.

As after 4 years together your partner (with a life in the UK test pass) would be eligible to apply for ILE directly.

Obviously married people have an easier time proving the length of the relationship as there's associated paperwork but if you can prove the length of time you've been together it's cheaper to get ILE (assuming you'd be flying back and forth anyway to get the test done.)