Engagement In Thailand

[storm2010]

hey everyone

I just wanted a bit of advice from ppl in this forum. Basically my thai girl lives up in isaan for a year now and wants to get married and move over with me to my home country. We have been together for 1 year and she moved up to isaan after we met.

Now firstly she/her family is asking for 400,000 baht sin sod. from reading all these forums i'm a bit weary giving that much money , so i suggested we get engaged and she come to my home country to see if she would like it.</p>

After a long talk she finally agreed that there is no rush in getting married.

Now for the engagement she says that i have to give half of the dowry 200,000 baht and buy her a ring.

Has anyone else had to give part of the dowry as part of the engagement or am i being taking for a long ride??

[storm2010]

a bit of background of this girl, she is a good looking girl, lives in a small town in isaan and has a reasonable nice family which i have met a few times. Her sisters are all married to thai guys and all live in isaan, she is the eldest. I met her in a club in bangkok. we are almost the same age, she is 27 im 28.she worked at a asian bar for 3 months prior to me meeting her (so she says). She speaks no English (i speak to her in thai) and she worked at a factory north of bangkok for a few years (so she says again). she also has a bit of education studying accounting at a college in her hometown.

thanks

[Mario2008]

Regarding sin-sod you might want to read our pinned topic here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/85581-sin-sod-an-explanation/

[TheWalkingMan]

You both are essentially the same age and if you were an 80 year-old geezer many would say that it is somewhat understandable as the family is trying to get the cash quick-quick. Because you both are relatively young, maybe you should explain to her the economic/education (maybe she wants to study something?) benefits of living in your country for the next number of years. That 400k baht and more should be able to be earned by her by and sent to her family by the sweat of her brow and working for a living.

The 200k jackpot of free money, plus a ring, is good for her as if things go wrong she is still the economical winner. From your post, it looks like you are already supporting her (met her in a pub, she went home)... maybe she is perfect, but 400k for a nice lady from a pub who did not finish college seems a bit steep.

Get her to your home country and see how you interact together... will she stay home and watch Thai videos on the internet all day, will she go to language school, does she want to go to language school, will she be sad and depressed... will your proficiency in Thai language be a hindrance to her getting out and doing things, do you want her to get out and do things...

From what I have read the amount of 400k is usually paid by well-off Thais to other well-off Thais or by non-Thais to well-off Thais or by non-Thais to lower level (no uni degree, nightlife job) Thais. I know a guy who coughed up a sinsod of 300k to a nightlife worker with 2 kids . I know because I asked him directly.

There are plenty of Thai/non-Thai weddings where no sinsod money was passed over as the parents wanted the kids to happy first or the woman said no to sinsod. Sinsod is not written in stone and I would hope that your girl is a bit internationally minded and can be convinced to forgo this money.

Whatever happens, good luck!

[Mario2008]

I think the OP should do an internet search on the topic of engament in Thailand and check if it is normal that half the dowry is paid for an engagement.

A lot can be found regrading engagement in Thailand.

[rod2011]

My friend is planning to marry his girlfriend in Isaan later this year. There is a 10 year age gap, she has a couple of kids from a previous marrriage. He raised the Sin sot question and she said 'no sin sot for you'. Apparently as she has already been married no sin sot is payable. If he wants to make a donation to the family that is OK but not required.

[storm2010]

i totally agree 400000 is very steep. I asked how much her sisters thai husband paid and she replied 100,000 baht (which i think is a lie as he has no job and lives in her families house). So i told her why am i paying 400K and she simply replied by saying because i'm a farang.

anyway , our relationship has really gone down hill because of this sin sod situation and basically her saying she is not coming to Australia to see if she likes it out unless i marry her or engage her so her parents are happy.For me its more that i'm not ready to marry her.

My friend who lives in bangkok just laughed at the fact she is asking for a deposit on the dowry to engage her and he thinks she is jus money hungry, but she tells me its a normal in her isaan home town.

[meatboy]

a bit of background of this girl, she is a good looking girl, lives in a small town in isaan and has a reasonable nice family which i have met a few times. Her sisters are all married to thai guys and all live in isaan, she is the eldest. I met her in a club in bangkok. we are almost the same age, she is 27 im 28.she worked at a asian bar for 3 months prior to me meeting her (so she says). She speaks no English (i speak to her in thai) and she worked at a factory north of bangkok for a few years (so she says again). she also has a bit of education studying accounting at a college in her hometown.

thanks

the op needs to tread carefully,good looking,nice family,at 27 and working in a club bkk i wonder why,never married,no children,family from isaan wants 400k bht,she wants 200k +diamond ring,and her sisters are all married to thai's,30years experience in los makes me think she has done this before,hope i am wrong,but when you dont live here you must have a gut feeling if you have read the forums whats been sugested.is this your first encounter with a lovely thai lass? good luck

[meatboy]

op you posted as i was writing mine,what you have said you could have taken the words right out of my mouth.i live in isaan and i can tell you stories you might not believe but your friend will.

[storm2010]

It is all a mystery with her. I'm sure there is stuff she is hiding but its so hard to find out as she has moved back from bangkok to isaan and i have never met any of her friends and her family is always speaking isaan which i don't understand.

Basically what i have been to get out of her past is that she worked in a factory north of bangkok for a couple of years and lived with a thai guy until he went off with another girl. After she broke up with him she started working at a asian bar for 3 months until we met at a club. I never told her to move to isaan, one day she just called me and told me she is moving to isaan and said it was because of me.This is all from what she has told me, so who knows if its true.

I have never really had a proper relationship with a thai girl.I I was seeing one thai girl who was married to older English guy but she moved to another country (she still calls me even after her husband caught us and forced her to move overseas and threatened me many times) and another bar girl who ended up being a little crazy ( had been in the bar scene for a long time). she was good to party with and fun but she was pure evil and money orientated - i guess that's what many years in the bar scene does to you.

This girl i just cant figure out...as you say you never know with these girls, one day you can find out they are married and have a husband kids etc

[meatboy]

enjoy the bar scene,i did for 2years you will learn a lot and you will stop believing everything they say,we have all been there,then start to go around the malls you will find someone in time,and dont forget what you learn,tgs are not all the same but when the alarm bells start ringing get out.good luck

[Dap]

It is all a mystery with her. I'm sure there is stuff she is hiding but its so hard to find out as she has moved back from bangkok to isaan and i have never met any of her friends and her family is always speaking isaan which i don't understand.

Basically what i have been to get out of her past is that she worked in a factory north of bangkok for a couple of years and lived with a thai guy until he went off with another girl. After she broke up with him she started working at a asian bar for 3 months until we met at a club. I never told her to move to isaan, one day she just called me and told me she is moving to isaan and said it was because of me.This is all from what she has told me, so who knows if its true.

I have never really had a proper relationship with a thai girl.I I was seeing one thai girl who was married to older English guy but she moved to another country (she still calls me even after her husband caught us and forced her to move overseas and threatened me many times) and another bar girl who ended up being a little crazy ( had been in the bar scene for a long time). she was good to party with and fun but she was pure evil and money orientated - i guess that's what many years in the bar scene does to you.

This girl i just cant figure out...as you say you never know with these girls, one day you can find out they are married and have a husband kids etc

Do yourself a big favor mate and read what you are writing. Good luck.

[storm2010]

yes, but another side of me is thinking i'm just paranoid.

Anyway, Ive basically broke the news to her that i'm not marrying her or getting engaged just yet and she started crying and went off at me big time and she says that i have made her hat farangs because they are evil liars lol.

she is calling me a liar because I promised her and her mum i was getting engaged or married and she spread the news around in her village which i guess makes her look bad now that she isnt.

She asked me why i agreed in the first place and i said i never did , her mum gave me a price in isaan of 400,000 baht and how am i suppose to negotiate when i dont even speak isaan.I told her 400,000 is too much and she says i just don't understand thai culture.

Anyway i guess we will see where things go from here,

[althemighty]

I'm 29 years old and my fiance is 27 years old. My dowry is 300k baht. My fiance has a universary degree and works as a teacher. No money was given for engagement just a ring. I doubt i will get anything back money wise but I love her so it is worth it. Issan girls mainly want their friends to see that a guy is willing to spend big for them it makes them feel like they are highly valued. It is not uncommon for a girl to move back to issan as the family is always trying to bring the girls home. Mothers love getting their daughters to do everything for them so they can be lazy when there is no need for them to earn money for the family anymore. I understand why many girls who have lived and worked in bangkok and then moved back home often after a breakup from a relationship seek western men to rescue them from village life. They love their family but they also want to dream and marry a nice western man and have a happy life and family.

[meatboy]

dont fall for it storm they are proffesional when it comes to acting the signs are there she will call you all the ba-stds under the sun,the 400k would only be the start of it,new car so mum can get about,new house,reguler beer money and dont forget the buffalo,sinsod,dowry call it what you like its tradition alright [for sale to whoever comes first],get out now while you still have some funds.one thing i would do in future is dont let on that you understand thai.

[LeftCoaster]

sinsod,dowry call it what you like its tradition alright [for sale to whoever comes first]

and second and third.......

[bangkokburning]

I would not marry this woman based on the information provided. I also would not be so hot to marry a foreign national and drag her back to US without spending considerable time with her. This is the next 60 years of your life!

Think you are entering into a world of hurt. My hunch is you met her in a bar and if not, on the Internet. Which is almost as bad considering all the girls trawling for men out there now, pretty much mercenary.

In the end, you seem to know little or nothing about her. You may very well have a high hurdle to get her back to US. In this process, you will find out a great deal about her - what goes on her visa app and if she is denied - why?

IF your plan is to get her to US. Do NOT give her anything before you have her visa in hand - otherwise they are nothing more than parting gifts.

Her demands of a (stones/diamonds?) ring (which she may honestly want, but Thai's hardly demand) , half the sin-sod, 400k sin sod (!). You are totally being scammed dude.

I have been with my GF for three years. She comes from a very poor family in BKK, originally from Issan. The wedding will cost B50K including transport from BKK, we will marry at amphur first.

She has asked for and will be proud to wear a simple white gold or platinum wedding band (US450 in PLATINUM), Sin sod = mom gets to keep the wedding envelopes, pop gets a Mido watch. Family gets first trip on plane, but sis and her kids go up on the train as I will pay for her time off work.

Honeymoon = already planned trip to Singapore although I may take a room the evening we wed at the amphur (next day would be ceremony).

THAT is love.

You sir are being taken for a ride. This situation has all the hallmarks of sucking you for all she can and then dumping you. That might be 100k maybe the ring, maybe ....as long as you are giving, she will be receiving. She will ride it right up to the visa and the ticket to US. But make no mistake, this smells like pure opportunity and to me, she has shown her hand well indeed. If she can ride it to citizenship she will, but I would bet 1000US you will not be married 7 years from now.

[bangkokburning]

She asked me why i agreed in the first place and i said i never did...

Run - don't walk away from her. It is obvious to me (I wish it were to you) that this woman is playing you!

[2unique]

yes, but another side of me is thinking i'm just paranoid.

Anyway, Ive basically broke the news to her that i'm not marrying her or getting engaged just yet and she started crying and went off at me big time and she says that i have made her hat farangs because they are evil liars lol.

she is calling me a liar because I promised her and her mum i was getting engaged or married and she spread the news around in her village which i guess makes her look bad now that she isnt.

She asked me why i agreed in the first place and i said i never did , her mum gave me a price in isaan of 400,000 baht and how am i suppose to negotiate when i dont even speak isaan.I told her 400,000 is too much and she says i just don't understand thai culture.

Anyway i guess we will see where things go from here,

Two words.... Emotional Blackmail

Sent from Android please excuse errors in type or judgement

[storm2010]

I have told her i am not marrying her and defintaely will not until i 100% trust her, as you guys have said, you just never know with these girls.

I have managed to bring the sin sod down to 200K, which i still dont plan on paying.

Anyway, ive spent alot more time with her and gotten to know her family and all the people in her village in issan and have been looking closely for any unusual signs.

I stay with her in her house with her mother and father and sister and sisters husband and havnt found any signs of any secret thai husband etc. its also my 3rd time in her village

Also I didnt meet her at a bar but met her at a nightclub in bangkok and have been with her for over 1 year now.

She has never had a farang boyfriend and i dont think she understood that farangs actually work hard for the money and money doesnt grow on trees in farangland, so now she kinda has an understanding that i will not pay a large amount just because i am a farang.

I also met another older girl in her village during songkran who told me she is marrying a old falang english guy who is paying 1 million baht sin sod and she is the only other girl in the village with a farang boyfriend, so that certainly doesnt help with the situation as all the girls in the village think its standard for falangs to pay that much.

Anyway, will see how things turn out. I was stupid for considering to marry after 1 year.

[beano2274]

I married my missus, at the engagement no money was shown or presented to her mother, with whom I get on really well. At the wedding, I paid for everything that I could, but had no money for Sinsod, her mother obliged by lending me the money to show and as per the ritual taking it away.

You are a catch for this girl and her family, I hate to say it but if you and her return to Australia, then her family will continuously be asking for cash for things, if the other guys are at home they will milk you, and it will be the thing that will ruin your marriage, you need to make sure they understand you are not the money milking machine they think all farangs are. I would get her to go on holiday to your home country or another country similar to your own, to see how she gets on with her new surroundings, tell her if she does not visit, then no engagement and defo no marriage.

As on add on, I married my wife within a year of meeting her face to face, before we had chatted for 4 months and actually lived in the same area.

[bangkokburning]

That is a nice story Beano. My GF will also be putting up the 100K sin sod for show. Honestly, the way I look at sin sod - It is a relic of a culture that is not mine. Given to young virgin women. More importantly, in my life how many times will I be asked and to give money for something (medical, housing, etc..). I have the rest of my life that I will me hit up for sin sod. In my case, why would I hand over huge sums of money to her family for the purpose of marrying a 36yo woman who has been living out of the house for 15 years? Honestly, I can tell this straight away - it's seen as a windfall. It really is. Money for nothing.

Aff Takasaorn - maybe

Anyway - back to you Storm. You state some very disturbing things that tell me your relationship is doomed (sorry). Analyze this in your heart:

I have told her i am not marrying her and defintaely will not until i 100% trust her,

So, you are in a relationship with someone you do not trust.

You have intentions of marrying someone yo udo not trust and think is taking advantage of you

as you guys have said, you just never know with these girls

Well, yes - they all can be charming and deceitful if that is the goal. But I am a firm believer that even the right bar girl can make a great wife. It's all about individual character. I have never thought for a second that the woman I am with has ever lied to me, been deceitful, manipulative or conniving. NOTE: I have been her twenty years and still consider myself lucky (!) and that is why I am marrying this one.

I have managed to bring the sin sod down to 200K, which i still dont plan on paying.

You are not living here in Thailand. From my experience, it is very hard for guys abroad to not pay sin sod. You could get it down to an insane 100k (US3K!) but why? She will never accept 50K (AT THE WEDDING <she will agree to it before, so wire now!! ). You will pay friend - or you will not marry her. I guarantee.

(I) havnt found any signs of any secret thai husband etc

You met the woman is a bar (nightclub - whatever). So you are telling us she is a virgin? How quickly did she sleep with you? Was even faster for the Thai guys. You met her in a nightclub in BKK but were looking for a secret husband in the village upcountry?? OK.

She has never had a farang boyfriend and i dont think she understood that farangs actually work hard for the money and money doesnt grow on trees in farangland,

She will never understand this until she is with a foreigner for a long time. In fact, until she goes abroad will it dawn on her how hard people work for money. I had a bar-girl friend returned from a trip to Hollland. She was all - WOW, people are tired, and work all the time...never knew. Don't think she understands this in the least by your short visits - and you trying to drum it into herhead does nothing.

I also met another older girl in her village during songkran who told me she is marrying a old falang english guy who is paying 1 million baht sin sod and she is the only other girl in the village with a farang boyfriend, so that certainly doesnt help with the situation as all the girls in the village think its standard for falangs to pay that much.

Yes, that does not help. Indeed, the whole village thing does not help. I am mystified whether this woman lives in BKK or Nakon Nowhere. It seems like she was down in the bar freelancing honestly, if she could speak English maybe it would have been a farang venue? she lives in Issan. People in the village will say anything to one up each other. Life is slow and people talk TOO much. You do not want to make your life in the village with the Thai skillset you have - which are no skills.

You do not write in confidence or seemingly with love. It appears you do not trust this woman and honestly she has provided good cause. She appears to be "negotiating" windfalls of marriage, not with any balance or your interests at heart - but as win-lose, zero sum. I have never been married but this is not how two people who desire to spend the rest of their long lives together behave.I do not see a great deal of warmth and concern coming from your wife to be honestly. Pretty much - what are you going to give me?

She travels at a whim - what does she do for work?? She appears to potentially be a freelance prostitute honestly.

As I stated prior: She will accept anything as it comes. "Half" the sin sod, an engagement ring, down payment money for the (BIG <mu$t>) wedding. As it rolls in, she will bank it. Wait for the visa to your home - no problem. Wait for her papers to roll in for green card and/or citizen ship. Finished. Now drain the bank account and file for divorce.

Incidentally - if you marry here and not in your home country (US?). You have another set of huge issues and hurdles to getting her back home that you would not have if you were marrying in US.

Finally - if she hits you up for living expenses, she is most likely not only lazy but again most likely a hooker imo. Young able bodied woman can easily find work in Thailand if she wants it.

There are more fish in the sea. MOVE ON.

[beano2274]

Agree with Bangkokburning, my wife went to the UK and saw that people are hard working and that money does not grow on trees. But she has always had a good understanding about money.

Having another farang paying so much is not helping your case, you need to state your case to her and her parents if you are gonna pay soooo much sinsod.

[TommoPhysicist]

Anyway, Ive basically broke the news to her that i'm not marrying her or getting engaged just yet and she started crying and went off at me big time and she says that i have made her hat farangs because they are evil liars lol.

The way to go was you were expecting normal level of sinsod like a Thai male would pay 30-40k.

No lie, you would like to buy the product, just purchase price too high.

[beano2274]

Anyway, Ive basically broke the news to her that i'm not marrying her or getting engaged just yet and she started crying and went off at me big time and she says that i have made her hat farangs because they are evil liars lol.

The way to go was you were expecting normal level of sinsod like a Thai male would pay 30-40k.

No lie, you would like to buy the product, just purchase price too high.

My Thai mates paid over 200,000 but some paid less, it all depends on the family.

My MIL really did not want me to pay sinsod as she saw it as an old tradition, but as the whole family were present she suggested it, and also as previously stated she gave the money to me.

[2unique]

I have told her i am not marrying her and defintaely will not until i 100% trust her, as you guys have said, you just never know with these girls.

I have managed to bring the sin sod down to 200K, which i still dont plan on paying.

Anyway, ive spent alot more time with her and gotten to know her family and all the people in her village in issan and have been looking closely for any unusual signs.

I stay with her in her house with her mother and father and sister and sisters husband and havnt found any signs of any secret thai husband etc. its also my 3rd time in her village

Also I didnt meet her at a bar but met her at a nightclub in bangkok and have been with her for over 1 year now.

She has never had a farang boyfriend and i dont think she understood that farangs actually work hard for the money and money doesnt grow on trees in farangland, so now she kinda has an understanding that i will not pay a large amount just because i am a farang.

I also met another older girl in her village during songkran who told me she is marrying a old falang english guy who is paying 1 million baht sin sod and she is the only other girl in the village with a farang boyfriend, so that certainly doesnt help with the situation as all the girls in the village think its standard for falangs to pay that much.

Anyway, will see how things turn out. I was stupid for considering to marry after 1 year.

The village does not think its the standard, they're amazed that anyone would pay that and thank their lucky stars it happened to them. Now everyone is looking for that same lucky lottery ticket stamped Farang 1 Million baht!

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[TommoPhysicist]

My Thai mates paid over 200,000 but some paid less, it all depends on the family.

Of course the price of a car is dependent on, the quality of build, the age, the mileage.

A brand new Ferrari will clearly have a higher purchase price than a 20 year old Honda with 300k on the clock.

[overherebc]

i totally agree 400000 is very steep. I asked how much her sisters thai husband paid and she replied 100,000 baht (which i think is a lie as he has no job and lives in her families house). So i told her why am i paying 400K and she simply replied by saying because i'm a farang.

anyway , our relationship has really gone down hill because of this sin sod situation and basically her saying she is not coming to Australia to see if she likes it out unless i marry her or engage her so her parents are happy.For me its more that i'm not ready to marry her.

My friend who lives in bangkok just laughed at the fact she is asking for a deposit on the dowry to engage her and he thinks she is jus money hungry, but she tells me its a normal in her isaan home town.

Don't know if it's considered advertising, but, find and read a book called Private Dancer.

[2unique]

i totally agree 400000 is very steep. I asked how much her sisters thai husband paid and she replied 100,000 baht (which i think is a lie as he has no job and lives in her families house). So i told her why am i paying 400K and she simply replied by saying because i'm a farang.

anyway , our relationship has really gone down hill because of this sin sod situation and basically her saying she is not coming to Australia to see if she likes it out unless i marry her or engage her so her parents are happy.For me its more that i'm not ready to marry her.

My friend who lives in bangkok just laughed at the fact she is asking for a deposit on the dowry to engage her and he thinks she is jus money hungry, but she tells me its a normal in her isaan home town.

Don't know if it's considered advertising, but, find and read a book called Private Dancer.

I asked Stephen Leather how much of the book was either based on urban legend or how much became urban legend because of the book - i was shocked when he revealed much of it happened to him personally!!

Despite being a former frequenter of Jools I'm now re-reading it with a completely different mindset.

Sent from Android please excuse errors in type or judgement

[overherebc]

I have told her i am not marrying her and defintaely will not until i 100% trust her, as you guys have said, you just never know with these girls.

I have managed to bring the sin sod down to 200K, which i still dont plan on paying.

Anyway, ive spent alot more time with her and gotten to know her family and all the people in her village in issan and have been looking closely for any unusual signs.

I stay with her in her house with her mother and father and sister and sisters husband and havnt found any signs of any secret thai husband etc. its also my 3rd time in her village

Also I didnt meet her at a bar but met her at a nightclub in bangkok and have been with her for over 1 year now.

She has never had a farang boyfriend and i dont think she understood that farangs actually work hard for the money and money doesnt grow on trees in farangland, so now she kinda has an understanding that i will not pay a large amount just because i am a farang.

I also met another older girl in her village during songkran who told me she is marrying a old falang english guy who is paying 1 million baht sin sod and she is the only other girl in the village with a farang boyfriend, so that certainly doesnt help with the situation as all the girls in the village think its standard for falangs to pay that much.

Anyway, will see how things turn out. I was stupid for considering to marry after 1 year.

The village does not think its the standard, they're amazed that anyone would pay that and thank their lucky stars it happened to them. Now everyone is looking for that same lucky lottery ticket stamped Farang 1 Million baht!

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

Only the names changed to protect the innocent