Non-B And Work Permit.. Change To Non-O?

[chrisf77]

Last May 2010 I started teaching english.. I got a Non-B (notify address every 90 day) 1 year visa + Work Permit.. Expires May 31 2012..

I taught 1 full semester. The school and I agreed that I would teach the next semester.

After the floods came and then the school said they cant hire a foreign teacher this semester. (School is in Nonthaburi)

So I have not been working for the past 4? months.. but I still have the visa and work permit and continue to notify my address every 90 days.

Is this a problem?

I am expecting to take a trip from Bangkok to Savannasakhet/Lao to get a Non-O Marriage type visa for 90 days..

Is there a better way to get a 90 day extension? a different visa maybe?

Do I have to do anything with my current Visa and Work Permit before I try to get the Non-O?

I only need a 90 day extension, because around July-August me and my wife will have our thai wedding reception etc, and after hopefully we will be flying to America to live for a while.

I have been living next to my thai girlfriend and her family for the past 1-2 years, and we have been engaged for almost 1 full year during that time. We just got married a few days ago and we are now in the process to get her an Immigrant visa (DCF CR1) to stay in America..

My wife is actually still in the process of getting her Masters degree, she needs to make a Thesis and then shes finished.. She prefers to stay in Thailand until next year to finish it. It's mostly my plan for both of us to go to America this July/August because I want to visit home, but I dont want to seperate from her.. (I have not been home for 2 years now)

anyway, please someone let me know about the visa stuff..

Thanks

[lopburi3]

The bad news - you apparently had an extension of stay for work which ended the day your work ended so you have been overstay since then. That will be a 20k baht fine. If they notice this when departing Thailand without a re-entry permit and question you it could result in your being told you can not exit until this overstay is taken care of.

[chrisf77]

humm, that could be bad..

So, I guess I should actually leave and try to get the O visa now instead of waiting?

I just assumed that since the visa stamp in my passport said, Expired May 31 2011.. that it was fine..

Should I try to cancel my visa before I leave the country to get the O visa?

or should I just leave?

[chrisf77]

also,, from my knowledge.. Its not an extension of stay.. Its only to notify your address every 90 days which has nothing to do with extending the visa? because the visa is a 1 year visa..

also, I might still be working under the agency? just not working for any school actually?

this is what i figured.. I cant really get a new job until April May because thats when the new semester starts.. and the fact that Im not working now due to the floods.. I figured its fine..

this could really suck..

[beechguy]

also,, from my knowledge.. Its not an extension of stay.. Its only to notify your address every 90 days which has nothing to do with extending the visa? because the visa is a 1 year visa..

also, I might still be working under the agency? just not working for any school actually?

this is what i figured.. I cant really get a new job until April May because thats when the new semester starts.. and the fact that Im not working now due to the floods.. I figured its fine..

this could really suck..

Were you leaving the country every 90 days, or just going to immigration every 90 days for the address report? If only doing the address report, you were doing so because your permission to stay was extended based on employment, nothing to do with the actual visa at that point.

[chrisf77]

I was only going to the immigration in thailand..

I never left the country.. Its just to report my address every 90 days, they stamped the date i need to report again on a piece of paper.. (not in the passport)

Am I fine or in trouble? haha

Do I need to worry or can i relax?

I wanted to wait until May to get the O visa..

If there is a problem, I might try to get the O visa now..

Please let me know.. THanks

[lopburi3]

It appears you are overstay as a visa only allows a 90 day stay even if the visa is called multi entry and valid for one year - once you change to extension of stay that ends with employment. Doing address reports is the key as you would not be doing them on visa entry as you could never stay more than 90 days without leaving.

[chrisf77]

humm..

well I read all the details from my passport and work permit.

There was nothing that says anything thats fit for my situation.. and both the visa and workpermit say they expire/valid until May 2012

-I got the visa and work permit in May 2010.. I worked the full semester and signed a full year with my agency. Also it was basically set in stone that I would continue working at the school.

-I called my school during the floods and they told me they dont have the funds to hire a foregin teacher this semester because they gov needs the money for the floods.

-I then called my agency and told them, exactly that..

-In a way I'm still just waiting for my agency to call me back to give me my next job.

I never quit or resigned. And it would seem I'm still working for my agency, just they failed to call me and give me a new place to teach at.

I think that since it says nothing about any of this in the visa/work permit.. I will just wait until May, return the work permit, and head on over to laos to get the O visa.

on visa

-Extension of stay permitted up to __May 2012_____

Holder must leave the kingdom within the

date specified herein, offenders will be

prosecuted.

notice on visa

-To keep your stay permit re-entry permit

must be made before leaving thailand

-Notification of residence must be

made every 90 days

On work permit

Warning

1. A permit holder must keep the permit with him or at the place of work during working hours in order that it may be readily shown to the competent official or the Registrar. Any violation thereof shall be liable to a fine not exceeding one thousand Baht.

2. A permit holder shall not engage in the work other than that which is specified in the permit or change the locality or place of work from that which is spectified from the registrar. Any violation thereof shall be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding one month or to a fine not exceeding two thousand baht or both.

3. Before a permit expires and the permit holder wishes to continue working, he shall apply for ewnewal of the permit to the Registrar prior to its expiration. Any violation thereof shall be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three months or to a fine not exceeding five thousand Baht or both.

4. In case where an alien resigns from the work which is specified in the permit, he shall return the permit to the Registrar of the province where the place of work is located within seven days from the date of his resignation. Any violation thereof shall be liable to fine not exceeding one thousand Baht.

[digitalchromakey]

well I read all the details from my passport and work permit.

There was nothing that says anything thats fit for my situation.. and both the visa and workpermit say they expire/valid until May 2012

-I got the visa and work permit in May 2010.. I worked the full semester and signed a full year with my agency. Also it was basically set in stone that I would continue working at the school.

-I called my school during the floods and they told me they dont have the funds to hire a foregin teacher this semester because they gov needs the money for the floods.

-I then called my agency and told them, exactly that..

-In a way I'm still just waiting for my agency to call me back to give me my next job.

I never quit or resigned. And it would seem I'm still working for my agency, just they failed to call me and give me a new place to teach at.

I think that since it says nothing about any of this in the visa/work permit. I will just wait until May, return the work permit, and head on over to laos to get the O visa.

Who is the employer in your Work Permit, the School or your Agency?

What is the agency saying to you - have you discussed this issue with them?

The law is very clear on this issue and despite what is written inside your work permit and stamped in your passport, your extension of permission to stay is now effectively invalid and as has been posted, you may well have problems at the border when you try to leave Thailand.

If your WP is not yet canceled then you need to work out a plan with the agency, if they are in fact your employer.

Please don't be complacent about this issue, tell immigration what you have posted above and they will simply reply that you are breaking the law - this issue requires resolution a.s.a.p; find out the facts and act accordingly.

The actual level of difficulty you may experience will relate to whether the work permit was in fact cancelled by your employer at the point when you were told that they did not require your services any further (this would have been done by their submitting a completed TT10 form to Labour, who would then have duely informed Immigration).

[Mario2008]

From immigration webiste:

Attention

If the alien granting extension of stay permit in The Kingdom for the reason of working at a business company/organization etc., resigns from such company / organization, his/her stay permit will be immediately terminated. As a consequence, The stay permit of his/her dependents will be terminated as well. Work Permit and Stay Permit must be revoked by competent officials.

If you don't work, your permisison to stay is invalid and you are on overstay.

[chrisf77]

ok, thanks everyone

Ill call my agency and go from there..

[Eff1n2ret]

This is all very interesting, as I'm just in exactly the same process, converting from Non-Imm 'B' based on Work Permit to in-country extension 'O' based on Retirement. The work I was involved in dried up last year, but the business that got me the work permit was happy to let it run in case a further opportunity arose as long as I reimbursed them the minimum tax, which was no problem, but now I don't want to work any more.

My Non-O and the work permit expire on Feb 28th. I have all the papers ready for a Non-O application except for the 'Tor-Tor 10', the receipt from the Labour Department for the work permit, which I handed back to the employer the other day. He is well-connected and knowledgeable in visa matters, and pointed out a 'catch-22', in that the 'visa' is cancelled with effect from handing in the work permit, and whilst you have 7 days in which to leave the country without penalty, you no longer have any form of permission to stay from which you can apply for a long-term extension. Thus I have to apply the same day as my Non-B is terminated. He will get the Tor-Tor 10 on Monday morning and I will hot-foot to Immigration the same day.

Others may argue about his contention that you effectively go into overstay as soon as the WP is cancelled and don't have 7 days in which to make a further application, but I respect his opinion and don't want to take the chance. I'll let you know how I get on.

[chrisf77]

Attention

If the alien granting extension of stay permit in The Kingdom for the reason of working at a business company/organization etc., resigns from such company / organization, his/her stay permit will be immediately terminated. As a consequence, The stay permit of his/her dependents will be terminated as well. Work Permit and Stay Permit must be revoked by competent officials.

From what I understand.. I never resigned and the company never fired me.. The company on my workpermit is my agency. I called and asked for work but they said they wont get work for anyone until after april 12th. And since my area was flooded until December 10th. There was no way for me to teach at a school which all started a month before.

I think there is confusion about "working at a business company/organization"..

A company can hire you, and you can do nothing and get paid nothing but still be working for the company.

But why would the company keep you as an employee if you do nothing?

As long as the company has no problem about this and keeps you as an employee even though your doing nothing, your still working for the company.

From what I understand is that, as long as my agency does not cancel my work permit, everything is fine.. because that means I am still actually working for them.

does this make sence or not? lol

[Eff1n2ret]

As long as the company has no problem about this and keeps you as an employee even though your doing nothing, your still working for the company.

From what I understand is that, as long as my agency does not cancel my work permit, everything is fine.. because that means I am still actually working for them.

does this make sence or not? lol

Effectively that's the way it's worked for me, but I suspect the employer may run into trouble if they can't show on their books that they've been paying you and that you've paid tax contributions. The minimum tax is 18,000baht p.a.

[chrisf77]

Effectively that's the way it's worked for me, but I suspect the employer may run into trouble if they can't show on their books that they've been paying you and that you've paid tax contributions. The minimum tax is 18,000baht p.a.

Do you know about the taxes? I never figured this part out.. I just assumed the agency pays the taxes at the same time they pay me?

I worked 5-6 months.. 1 full semester with them (the last school semester)

Do I have to fill out some tax form? or do they do it? confusing

[TerryLH]

"The minimum tax is 18,000baht p.a."

Where is that info from?

[wayned]

This is all very interesting, as I'm just in exactly the same process, converting from Non-Imm 'B' based on Work Permit to in-country extension 'O' based on Retirement. The work I was involved in dried up last year, but the business that got me the work permit was happy to let it run in case a further opportunity arose as long as I reimbursed them the minimum tax, which was no problem, but now I don't want to work any more.

My Non-O and the work permit expire on Feb 28th. I have all the papers ready for a Non-O application except for the 'Tor-Tor 10', the receipt from the Labour Department for the work permit, which I handed back to the employer the other day. He is well-connected and knowledgeable in visa matters, and pointed out a 'catch-22', in that the 'visa' is cancelled with effect from handing in the work permit, and whilst you have 7 days in which to leave the country without penalty, you no longer have any form of permission to stay from which you can apply for a long-term extension. Thus I have to apply the same day as my Non-B is terminated. He will get the Tor-Tor 10 on Monday morning and I will hot-foot to Immigration the same day.

Others may argue about his contention that you effectively go into overstay as soon as the WP is cancelled and don't have 7 days in which to make a further application, but I respect his opinion and don't want to take the chance. I'll let you know how I get on.

You don't automatically get 7 days. You can go monday and apply for a 7 day extension for 1900 baht, if you don't get your Tor Tor 10 form sorted in time. That will allow you and extra 7 days to sort it out. Of course, if you do get the form it can be processed Monday and save you 1900 baht! When I quit, I got the paperwork from my employer and took it and the work permit to the labour office and waited for it. Good luck!

[wayned]

Effectively that's the way it's worked for me, but I suspect the employer may run into trouble if they can't show on their books that they've been paying you and that you've paid tax contributions. The minimum tax is 18,000baht p.a.

Do you know about the taxes? I never figured this part out.. I just assumed the agency pays the taxes at the same time they pay me?

I worked 5-6 months.. 1 full semester with them (the last school semester)

Do I have to fill out some tax form? or do they do it? confusing

You are responsible for paying taxes. The agency should have been withholding taxes and paying into you tax account each month. I bet they weren't, do you even have a tax number? It needs to be straightened out, but if you were only working 6 months as a teacher, you most lilely would't owe any taxes. But if they were withholding taxes from your pay then that money would be refundable when you filed your tax returns next month. The minimum tax of 18000 baht is total BS!

[Eff1n2ret]

This is all very interesting, as I'm just in exactly the same process, converting from Non-Imm 'B' based on Work Permit to in-country extension 'O' based on Retirement. The work I was involved in dried up last year, but the business that got me the work permit was happy to let it run in case a further opportunity arose as long as I reimbursed them the minimum tax, which was no problem, but now I don't want to work any more.

My Non-O and the work permit expire on Feb 28th. I have all the papers ready for a Non-O application except for the 'Tor-Tor 10', the receipt from the Labour Department for the work permit, which I handed back to the employer the other day. He is well-connected and knowledgeable in visa matters, and pointed out a 'catch-22', in that the 'visa' is cancelled with effect from handing in the work permit, and whilst you have 7 days in which to leave the country without penalty, you no longer have any form of permission to stay from which you can apply for a long-term extension. Thus I have to apply the same day as my Non-B is terminated. He will get the Tor-Tor 10 on Monday morning and I will hot-foot to Immigration the same day.

Others may argue about his contention that you effectively go into overstay as soon as the WP is cancelled and don't have 7 days in which to make a further application, but I respect his opinion and don't want to take the chance. I'll let you know how I get on.

As I said I would report, here are a few nuggets from my experience of yesterday and this morning which may assist the OP:-

Cancellation of the Work Permit is not in itself a cancellation of the stamp in your passport – you have to get the latter done at the Immigration Office which originally endorsed it. I only found this out after slogging all the way to the Labour Office at Chonburi to pick up the Tor Tor 10 and then over to Maptaphut to present the Retirement application, where they told me they could do nothing until my Non-Imm B had been cancelled by Jomtien (Chonburi) Immigration where it was issued.

The minute the work permit is cancelled you’re on overstay. The endorsement by Chonburi Immigration says “The holder of this passport has terminated from xxxxx and must leave the Kingdom within 20 Feb 2012 – signed Immigration Officer 21 Feb 2012.”

The good news is that you can still apply from overstay for a Retirement extension. Maptaphut calculated my overstay as 2 days so I paid 1000 baht on top of the 1900 baht extension fee. It was all official with receipts. I also had to sign a manuscript entry in a book which looked like an explanation of the circumstances of the overstay. None of the officers either in Jomtien or Maptaphut made a big deal of any of this.

Although you have a new stamp for a year, your existing reporting date from your previous conditions stands. Mine was for a week’s time anyway, so they gave me a TM47 and I did a new report on the spot.

It seems slightly bizarre that Jomtien’s endorsement required me to leave the country the day before they issued it, but I guess that was because they knew I was going to apply for an extension. Presumably they would have made it 7 (or 6) days if I was actually intending to leave.

[lopburi3]

Your extension of stay ended the day your employment ended so suspect that accounts for the date?

Thus I have to apply the same day as my Non-B is terminated. He will get the Tor-Tor 10 on Monday morning and I will hot-foot to Immigration the same day.