Here We Go Again! Elephant Nature Camp Being Harrassed Yet Again..

[lannarebirth]

According to my wife there's just been a report on Channel 3 news showing the head of the DNP at one of the two parks (not sure which one) dealing with his underlings allegations that some animals didn't have proper paperwork. A Farang guy (who appears in one of the videos above) is saying that they have had these animals for 7 years and why didn't DNP come and sort this out years ago. The director turns to the underling and asks why he wasn't given this information. Underling squirms. Maybe the adverse publicity has got through. The report suggests that the animals will be returned. Maybe someone will keep us posted.

So the wild animal's papers were not in order, huh? Let's make a new, well funded government department to sort that out, shall we?

[Nienke]

I did not see Channel 3. I did see part of the interview with Edwin Wiek on Channel 5.

I understood from messages on the WFFT facebook page that Edwin could not be reached by phone by Channel 3, probably because he was in or on his way to the studio of channel 5 as it was just before he showed up there.

From what I picked up on channel 5 is that WFFT does have the right paperwork for the animals which Edwin brought with him to the studio and showed it. Although they didn't make a close up of these papers.

[tolstoy]

I don't think Winnie has a clue what the Elephant Nature Park does. I assume this is the one that is run by the very well respected "Lek". She has been given awards by many countries and is arguably one of the best advocates for animal protection in Thailand.

Perhaps you didn't know that they spent quite a bit of money going to BKK during the floods buying over 10 boats and rescuing 100's of animals and finding homes for them.

I do believe that they have a strong commitment to animal protection first and foremost. Yes, they do try to get donations but if you look at the organization you will see that they spend most of it to keep the place up and improving it. It is not like they let the animals rot and live in mansions.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

The Elephant Nure Park, as an example, most certainly keeps elephants as a means to make money. They have this whole brainwashing thing going on with their customers/visitors, but in the end they breed elephants in order to offer a (very successful) tourist attraction disguised as volunteering. Nothing wrong with that per se of course, just a little hypocritical.

Wow, that's a big accusation. Can you come up with solid proof for this? If not, better to not put it in black and white.

What accusation? I wasn't making an accusation. Ok i could have worded it as 'presented as volunteering' instead of disguised, or use the common term voluntourism.

[Saan]

I don't understand.

Lot of hot air, but no link that works.

You can't link directly to non-public facebook content.

I think when the Elephant Nature Park is involved then some caution applies; they have a habit of making grandiose claims to drum up business. Doesn't mean that this event you're talking about isn't worth discussing, but you can only cry wolf so many times before people start applying grains of salt first.

From today's The Age, Melbourne, Australia

A PARTLY Australian-funded wildlife rescue foundation whose chief spoke out about the illegal poaching of baby elephants in Thailand has been raided and had 103 animals taken away by Thai parks officials.

Several Australian witnesses say many of the animals, including endangered species, were injured during the raids over four days on the Wildlife Friends Foundation Thailand centre in south-west Thailand by up to 100 armed men, some of them wearing balaclavas to hide their identities.

The raids followed claims by the organisation's founder and director, Edwin Wiek, that more than half the elephants in tourist camps across Thailand have been illegally caught in the wild when they were young, sometimes by poachers who shoot their mothers or other members of their herd that try to protect them. ''I would say between 100 to 250 baby elephants are smuggled from the wild each year,'' says Mr Wiek, a Dutchman who has worked to protect abused animals in Thailand for years.

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Mr Wiek says baby elephants are sold to middlemen who torture and tame them before selling them to tourism operators for more than $7000.

He says tourists who visit Thai elephant camps are ''effectively supporting the killing and torture of wild-born elephants''.

Sydney veterinary nurse Lucy Clark says staff at the centre were pushed, shoved, abused and even spat on by Thai officials during the raids last week when one-quarter of the centre's rescued animals were taken away, many of them distressed and bleeding.

One of the animals was a long-tailed macaque called Spartacus, which was brought to the centre after being electrocuted, hit by a car and mauled by dogs, with injuries so severe its arms had to be amputated.

''It took three men to seize him in a net in a 10-minute struggle,'' Ms Clark told The Age.

''You could see the fear, confusion and anxiety in his eyes.''

Ms Clark, who has worked at the centre for almost four years, tends mistreated animals rescued from across Thailand including tigers and elephants. She says the fate of the animals seized is unclear. ''Ironically many of our animals have been rescued from these horrific government centres,'' she said.

The seized animals include Asiatic black bears, macaques, gibbons, civets, oriental pied hornbills, Brahminy kites, leopard kites and an oriental small-clawed otter.

''I will not give up until each and every one of them is safely returned home,'' Ms Clark said.

Thailand's National Parks, Wildlife and Plant Conservation says the animals were seized from the centre because the foundation failed to produce paperwork showing they were being kept legally. But Mr Wiek says the foundation was not given the opportunity to produce documents.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/world/thai-animal-haven-raided-after-poaching-claim-20120226-1twel.html#ixzz1nY6akJqV

[wolf5370]

Three (at least threads going now) - I don't want to cross post - I just posted a message on http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/533883-raid-on-wildlife-sanctuary-had-revenge-motive/page__pid__5092549__st__25#entry5092549 (post 38) - just got word about imminant ENP raid.

[hellodolly]

I suppose we shouldn't be surprised at anything that goes on in this country. But if the allegations in the videos can be substantiated, this is truly appalling.

Sense when does the army and police do their work masked.

There is more to this than we are being told.

Are there videos of the animals being treated by vets after they have been taken?

My understanding is that there is a market for animals how do we know that is not where they went?

I have seen no documentation on it being government ordered just a video of masked men doing it.

WTK was rite the original link was non exsistant.

[OriginalPoster]

The Elephant Nure Park, as an example, most certainly keeps elephants as a means to make money. They have this whole brainwashing thing going on with their customers/visitors, but in the end they breed elephants in order to offer a (very successful) tourist attraction disguised as volunteering. Nothing wrong with that per se of course, just a little hypocritical.

Wow, that's a big accusation. Can you come up with solid proof for this? If not, better to not put it in black and white.

What accusation? I wasn't making an accusation. Ok i could have worded it as 'presented as volunteering' instead of disguised, or use the common term voluntourism.

If not accusation, certainly dripping with innuendo. I was under the impression that Elephant Nature Park was a legitimate, privately run animal rescue/refuge being run by people who have devoted their lives to the cause. I still believe that to be the case.

[PoodMaiDai]

I'm sorry to see these type of things happening, but I have only been able to find information on one side of the story. does anyone have anything from the government's POV? Are they saying that they are taking the animals for any specific reason?

They are saying the animals are being abused apparently which is ludicris because WFFT has a fantastic reputation for only doing good you can see just by the surroundings and the passionate people that this is ridiculous and after 12 years of taking in animals even from the DNP who sent them there animals to take care of when they confiscated them its clear they have pissed off the wrong people because this is the first time in 12 years they have had a issue.

5 days of raids by armed masked military personal and Police

They went away one day after a famous thai singer and actor was there and stood up for the sanctuary

they are also raiding the ENP who jointly exposed the Elephant killings, (bit of a coincidence) for those that dont know the ENP is a Elephant rehabilitation center ran by a well known Thai lady called Nan who lives to help Elephants and works tirelessly to keep them off the streets.

There are videos of all this on youtube and the book loads of paperwork on the animals is being ignored they don't want to look at it and are confiscating animals by the truckload without any regard for the well being of the animals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaxCukNCp1k&feature=channel

DK

PS Apparently the HEAD OF THE DNP in bangkok knows nothing about the raids even when there was 60-100 Police DNP officials and Army personal

I hate to say it, but someone will have that guy killed. I almost said someone will kill him but these cowards never do their own dirty work, they always have others do it for them.

It's horrible what they are doing, but this is the true harsh reality of the country we all choose to live in. They don't care and do whatever they want, when they want, without any fear of ramifications of their actions because they know there will be none.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

The Elephant Nure Park, as an example, most certainly keeps elephants as a means to make money. They have this whole brainwashing thing going on with their customers/visitors, but in the end they breed elephants in order to offer a (very successful) tourist attraction disguised as volunteering. Nothing wrong with that per se of course, just a little hypocritical.

Wow, that's a big accusation. Can you come up with solid proof for this? If not, better to not put it in black and white.

What accusation? I wasn't making an accusation. Ok i could have worded it as 'presented as volunteering' instead of disguised, or use the common term voluntourism.

If not accusation, certainly dripping with innuendo. I was under the impression that Elephant Nature Park was a legitimate, privately run animal rescue/refuge being run by people who have devoted their lives to the cause. I still believe that to be the case.

It's primarily a very successful voluntourism business. That makes it very important to the tourism scene in Chiang Mai as a whole; I often get miffed at the whole spiel they lay on but the bottom line is that it brings people to Chiang Mai, and that those people tend to rate it as the highlight of their trip not just to Chiang Mai but to Thailand. Check it out on Tripadvisor.

[Nienke]

I hate to say it, but someone will have that guy killed. I almost said someone will kill him but these cowards never do their own dirty work, they always have others do it for them.

It's horrible what they are doing, but this is the true harsh reality of the country we all choose to live in. They don't care and do whatever they want, when they want, without any fear of ramifications of their actions because they know there will be none.

Please, do not generalize. WFFT and ENP have a tremendous support also of Thai people.

[Nienke]

It's primarily a very successful voluntourism business. That makes it very important to the tourism scene in Chiang Mai as a whole; I often get miffed at the whole spiel they lay on but the bottom line is that it brings people to Chiang Mai, and that those people tend to rate it as the highlight of their trip not just to Chiang Mai but to Thailand. Check it out on Tripadvisor.

Reading your posts, WTK, I wonder why you keep hammering on the same thing: that is, the ENP a 'very successful voluntourism business'. Isn't the ENP not a bit more than that in your opinion?

Is it possible that those who rate the ENP "as the highlight of their trip ... " do so because of the work done there for the elephants and not just as a wonderful tourist attraction?

Is it possible that a person like Jane Goodall (you know who she is, right?) think the ENP is more than just a 'very successful voluntourism business'? http://elephantnaturepark.org/news/111004nv1.htm

And would Khun Lek receive these rewards, etc. if the ENP wasn't a little more than just a 'very successful voluntourism business'?

http://elephantnaturepark.org/news/0604b.htm

http://elephantnaturepark.org/news/0604a.htm

http://elephantnaturepark.org/news/0510b.htm

http://elephantnaturepark.org/news/story_0203b.htm

http://elephantnaturepark.org/news/0805a.htm

Now of course all these links are taken from the ENP website, so therefore it has to be 'twisted truth', or not?

And beside the work for the elephants, have you followed it a bit when ENP, and WFFT, SDF, and many other rescue organizations were rescueing literally thousands of four-legged flood victims last year?

[Johpa]

Reading your posts, WTK, I wonder why you keep hammering on the same thing: that is, the ENP a 'very successful voluntourism business'. Isn't the ENP not a bit more than that in your opinion?

The ENP is a tourist business run by people with their hearts in the right place and who are good at promoting their particular schtick. The Mae Sa elephant camp, the largest in Thailand, is a similar business that takes another direction for promotion, but the owner, although a very different personality from Khun Lek, is also a person with his heart in the right place and is devoted to helping the pachyderms. The bottom line is that both are tourist based businesses which take diffferent advertising paths and attract different types of tourists and supporters. It is just like Las Vegas, if they don't like Elvis then you entice them in with an alternative such as Star Trek or a fake European city.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Reading your posts, WTK, I wonder why you keep hammering on the same thing: that is, the ENP a 'very successful voluntourism business'. Isn't the ENP not a bit more than that in your opinion?

The ENP is a tourist business run by people with their hearts in the right place and who are good at promoting their particular schtick.

Yep.

[Gonzo the Face]

Anybody got any new infor on this topic???

Be a shame to just let it go under the rug, like so many other things around here.

G

[jaideecm]

Here is the real hero of elephant conservation in Thailand, my good friend Khun Soraida at Friends of the Asian Elephant. No charge for visiting but donations are welcome. Nothing to do with tourism just real love for the elephants. She has been shot at, they tried to burn down her hospital and much more. Go to her web site listed below.

Friends of the Asian Elephant (FAE)

In 1993, Soraida Salwala founded the first Elephant Hospital in the world, located in Lampang (Thailand). Her Foundation, Friends of the Asian Elephant (FAE), nurtures elephants that have been injured by stepping on landmines, in traffic, that are sick or have been abused by humans. With her team of 15 people, Soraida has treated over 2,300 elephants since the start of her hospital: “We have to protect them from all kinds of danger and the elephants need to be taken care of, sometimes for the rest of their lives”. Soraida is very happy with the support of Elephant Parade: “Without Elephant Parade, I don't think our elephants would survive.” FAE and ‘Mobile Vet Projects’ work united to help sick injured elephants from all regions of the country and take care of expecting mothers. This latest donation of the Asian Elephant Foundation will be used to buy a new vehicle to help many patients out of the hospital, mostly in the northern region.

Become friends on Soraida's facebook page

The elephants need you help. help them with a donation to Friends of the Asian Elephant

[BigJohnnyBKK]

The cynicism amazes me - there is nothing wrong with engaging in "business" in order to support altruistic goals.

The central point here is that evil forces, who are engaging in business for their own personal profits only, are using their government puppets as weapons against those that are trying to do good for Thailand's wildlife.

It's fine to be a coward, not want to stick your neck out - because it may well just get chopped off - but please don't actually align yourself with the dark side here.

[realthaideal]

What is the total # of elephant parks raided, btw ? I think it's 2 with K. Lek being one of them. I think they all do a great job, and that this is a very unfortunate situation. Are the places completely shut down now ? Or are owners laying low for awhile till the heat goes down ?

And btw, charging 3,000-5,000 B per day for elephants that poor hilltribes somehow manage to raise and keep for almost free is definitely a large sum of money per day. The mahout programs rake in the cash and there is no ignoring that fact. Some are/were very crowded and sending people by the van-full every day to the mountains. I have to admit, given this country and how things tend to work here, I do wish there was more than a little transparency about funds and where they go - ie what percent to actual elephant care vs owner/operator bank accounts. To some this notion will sound unholy, but a multi-million baht 'charity' operation with private donations coming in as well, should make anybody curious about the books.

I will add that many successful powerful (and well-intentioned) people tend to become corrupted, and that includes owners of large businesses. Studies have found that they become better at rationalizing breaking/bending the rules for their own benefit becomes easier over time. And thus the need for transparency.