Evangelical Monkeys

[p1p]

Sorry, but I'm not going compete with you. I could never compete with such a bold-faced liar like yourself. If that's the personna you want to make-up here, so be it. This is the internet.

I do feel a bit sorry for you though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

SarahH. I have never made a secret of my real identity, although I do not advertise it for obvious reasons. I am known to many. Furthermore, many members of this board know the absolute veracity of what I write. Some have known me and my family here for many years. Only a misguided fool could refer to me as either a liar, or a bigot.

Lastly, I'm afraid I find myself incapable of returning the favour and feeling sorry for you, despite your obviously misguided beliefs.

I await your replies to the questions raised by others as well as myself.

[cmsally]

Sorry, but I'm not going compete with you. I could never compete with such a bold-faced liar like yourself. If that's the personna you want to make-up here, so be it. This is the internet.

I do feel a bit sorry for you though.

Maybe you could contribute by elaborating on your views. Bring up some opinions backed by observations and argue your point. The way to win an argument is not to go "shut down" and accuse the opposition.

My whole point in starting this topic was to bring peoples attention to what I see as blatant disrespect for Thai culture and also natural places of beauty. If you think that these religious signs are otherwise; prove me wrong.

What is your argument for saying they should be left there or put up there in the first place. Go into your own mind and see if you can work out a logical chain of thought.

[Dustoff]

I agree completely with Chanchao, let's keep personal insults out of this discussion...I suggest that from now on  only people who deserve to be disliked  should  be insulted. To give an example : "Evangelical monkeys", that would be okay. Agreed everyone ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good one. My impression has been that the insults began with the text of the signs which certainly seem evangelical and that "monkeys" referred to whoever was capable of climbing that high in the trees.

I was fortunate to be brought up without religion and have never seen any reason to attach myself to any of the MANY religious mythologies. It seems even more ridiculous for people to struggle so over any myth but some religious theologies give no credit whatsoever to human intelligence and actually encourage violence. Hence, "What my religion says/does is far superior to anything you may believe." Or, "Resistance is futile! You will be absorbed."

Utter nonsense.

Just as arguing with these people is utter futility. Let us not stoop to their level...

[chanchao]

> I agree completely with Chanchao, let's keep personal insults out of this

> discussion...I suggest that from now on only people who deserve to be

> disliked should be insulted. To give an example : "Evangelical monkeys",

> that would be okay. Agreed everyone ?

LOL That's not a personal insult, that's making a blanket malicious insult or mockery against a particular group based on religion.

Which is of course okay.

Seriously though: point taken, fr11 !! Still there is a difference between agitating against some institution (or, err, faith-based-organization), and personally calling another member names. In the former case, I tend to favor freedom of speech whenever possible. The latter is less cool. Note that I didn't consider the earlier and more general accusation of 'religous bigotry' to be out of line as it wasn't aimed at any particular person. (Plus it was also true, or at least a fair point. )

Cheers,

Chanchao

Edited December 15, 2005 by chanchao

[chanchao]

> I was fortunate to be brought up without religion and have never seen any

> reason to attach myself to any of the MANY religious mythologies.

Can I interest you in a glass of your beverage of choice, and a plate of pasta while I state the case for Flyingspaghettimonsterism and why it's more convincing than any other religion? Actually, all the other faith-based groups are indeed just mythologies, FSM is undisputable truth. But we'll get to that.

On a more serious note, I'm happy to read that you did not adopt any religion after having been raised without a religion. My fear is always that if I don't force something (anything) on my kids, they will then become curious and before you know it be turned into fanatic-reli-freaks. So I'm actually considering to force Flyinspaghettimonsterism on them, just so that they will develop a healthy aversion to religious fairy tales.

You should see our holiday tree, it's the third and fourth one from the top, here: http://www.venganza.org/spread/holiday_trees.htm

[mumbojumbo]

You cannot argue with "brainwashed" christians". Some christs are ok because they keep it to themselves. If Dookey Williams would have accepted JC on the night of his execution, he is in heaven now. I never hurt no one, and me and over half the world are going to hel_l-just makes no sence.

I myself have been a frisbyterian since i was a young boy. My only belief is, that when i die, my soul will go up on the roof and i can't get it down.

[zzap]

Frankly I suspect that more than a few of us would have been dissappointed if someone like Sarah didn't step in. 

While Sarah's last post is definitely not 'okay', I don't feel like editing it out or anything else because both p1p and myself have participated so much in this topic and have been so outspoken..  Of course that upsets some people, but our skins are pretty thick so we live and let live. 

I do hope though that Sarah can keep the personal insults out of any future posts..  Would gain more sympathy too.

Cheers,

Chanchao

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am glad to see this forum is not censored as 'heavy-handed' as other parts of this board.

Maybe the 'big-boy' mods have yet to take notice of this thread...

My fear is always that if I don't force something (anything) on my kids, they will then become curious and before you know it be turned into fanatic-reli-freaks.

I don't think our young ones are that stupid, Chanchao. Our daughter briefly took an interest in some Christian group here, then decided they were "nuts". Not much input from me required...

[klop]

Actually most of all the signs are a road safety hazzard.. Seeing how high up they are, reading them involves taking your eyes off the road and looking up..

Rather than take down existing signs, I think it would be more fun to change them or add ones that mock this effort.

"Jesus died putting up this sign"

"Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you're an ######"

"Get a taste of religion. Lick a witch."

"I bet Jesus would have used HIS turn signals!"

".. and didn't overtake until AFTER this blind corner."

"My God is alive - sorry about yours."

"Darwin loves you."

"Christianity -- Intolerence since 0032"

"God - A make believe friend for grown-ups."

"So many Christians, so few lions.."

etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Brilliant.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Brilliant indeed ! That is, for a 14-year-old schoolboy...

[chuchok]

Actually most of all the signs are a road safety hazzard.. Seeing how high up they are, reading them involves taking your eyes off the road and looking up..

Rather than take down existing signs, I think it would be more fun to change them or add ones that mock this effort.

"Jesus died putting up this sign"

"Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you're an ######"

"Get a taste of religion. Lick a witch."

"I bet Jesus would have used HIS turn signals!"

".. and didn't overtake until AFTER this blind corner."

"My God is alive - sorry about yours."

"Darwin loves you."

"Christianity -- Intolerence since 0032"

"God - A make believe friend for grown-ups."

"So many Christians, so few lions.."

etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Brilliant.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Brilliant indeed ! That is, for a 14-year-old schoolboy...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And you are about as funny as a fart in a space suit..

What gave you the urge to post here?

[Dustoff]

Brilliant indeed ! That is, for a 14-year-old schoolboy...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And you are about as funny as a fart in a space suit..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Geev Um!

I would choose a good sense of humor over a stodgy old religion any day!

[PrivatePilot]

It appears that some Christian fundamenterrorists are smarter than I thought: by dishing out random insults and calling other posters bigots and liars (real Christian family values, eh?) they've managed to change the focus of the original posting. But let's not get too sidetracked... otherwise the "fundamenterrorists will win" (to paraphrase King GW Bush.)

So let's hear some more ideas on how to get rid of those square-shaped pollutants that spew "Christian" fear and hate all day and night. Unfortunately, I'm able to read Thai and those pollutants make me want to vomit when I'm driving through a beautiful forested area and see one obnoxious sign after another. It's one thing to put up those ugly signs in an already polluted city... but out in the middle of the forest, it's simply sacreligious. My solution is to carry a good slingshot and some rope: shoot the rope around the sign, tie the rope to your vehicle, and voila--the sign's gone and you're now guaranteed a place in heaven.

[rishi]

It appears that some Christian fundamenterrorists are smarter than I thought: by dishing out random insults and calling other posters bigots and liars (real Christian family values, eh?) they've managed to change the focus of the original posting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bravo, PrivatPilot --- exactly my thoughts spoken out... (However, I won't be any kind of forefront guy with respect to this matter, at best a participant in somebody else's arrangement).

[Slim Chance]

MISSIONARY GOOD!

TASTE LIKE CHICKEN

[Chilvers]

I'm moving to Chiang Mai in january with my partner and her child.

I'm coming to Thailand because it is different.......because it sees things differently and because lives different.

It's culture, beliefs and ways of life are different because it has a different past to the one I have grown up in. There are a billion different people in this world and a billion different beliefs. And I have CHOSEN to learn from those around me, not try and convert anyone to my belief. To learn from those around me, and enjoy them for what they are.......living beings.....to learn and accept.

Maybe the only guidelines in the world should be to enjoy each others company...and learn about each others beliefs..and if you can't enjoy someones company, go and find someone whose company you do enjoy.

To move into a culture and try and convert it to your beliefs, that are based upon your experiences and your reactions to your experiences (which lets face it may be wrong - I'm still learning that many of mine are!!!) is both ignorant and arrogant. Sure, show people skills your culture has developed to enhance our lives - and by that I mean reading, writing, and new methods of living that help our lives whilst still remaining in balance with the world around us........but to also push onto people your beliefs............that approach is definitely 'I'll love my neighbour once I've changed them' not 'love my neighbour no matter what'.

I'm not religious.......i've learned from many beliefs and many people.....but the biggest thing I've ever learned is that to truely understand and accept people for what they are......I've had to accept and love myself first.......and when i've done that I've found it's Ok for people to be who they are.....because it is OK for me to be who I am.

Why can't we just appreciate the amazing opportunity we've been given......to be alive....

I'm not moving to Thailand because it is in the process of being converted to Christianty.....but because it is Thailand......and long may it develop the way it wants to............

Now I know there are a million holes in what i've said.....and a million things that i've missed or not said.........I'm not perfect.......and neither are my arguments.......I know this........which is why I won't be putting up a million billboards around Chiang Mai.........Just wondering if the billboard ghosts out there truely believe they are 'perfect' enough to put up billboards around Chiang Mai..........

[sabaijai]

Now I know there are a million holes in what i've said.....and a million things that i've missed or not said.........I'm not perfect.......and neither are my arguments.......I know this........which is why I won't be putting up a million billboards around Chiang Mai.........Just wondering if the billboard ghosts out there truely believe they are 'perfect' enough to put up billboards around Chiang Mai.......... 

Not perfect but "saved" through "God's grace." I'd guess the sign-posters feel it's their duty to share this with others, unfortunately using threatening prose that also happens to be defacing trees. Those yellow signs are like little bombs, and those who set them believe this is their path to the kingdom of heaven ...

[SamSipEt]

Came across this sign the other day and thought that it would be more appropriate than the pseudo religious nonsense that is currently in the trees….

[mumbojumbo]

I'm glad this thead has been revived. The missonaries, sp are out of control. more. more. Got lot of money-new pickeus, new residences, etc. Too much power. More and more coming and setting up foudations ---My Dee Just my obsevation.

[jaiyenjohn]

Thailand has freedom of religion as a part of its constitution. This is a good thing.

Unfortunately, freedom of religion means that you do indeed have the right to be a total ***hole about your beliefs.

Freedom. You takes the good with the bad. But better than the alternative.

/american buddhist.

[Gonzo the Face]

Some days I feel very religious.

In fact, some day soon I hope I am able to see and talk to a burning Bush.

[Ulysses G.]

They sure seem to gravitate to places with all the creature comforts.

Sojos restaurant is packed with fat, supposed, do-gooders every day, but I don't see many of these folks out in the Boonies.

[...Ken]

They sure seem to gravitate to places with all the creature comforts.

Sojos restaurant is packed with fat, supposed, do-gooders every day, but I don't see many of these folks out in the Boonies.

There was this 12 yr old Hmong boy who was regarded as insane and not allowed to attend the local school. I saw him flop on the ground once in an grand mal epileptic seizure and realized his problem. The village was pseudo christian so I went into Chiengmai trying to solicit a church to sponser

medication for the lad until he became an adult. Everyone had an excuse why they could not help this one victimized kid, but the mormans had the best excuse. After serious consternation this one morman

chaps face lights up and exclaims that although they would like to help, the Hmong village was too far for them to pedal their bikes.

...Ken

[earlofwindermere]

I had never noticed the signs until this thread for was posted but now I see them everywhere. Since then, I met a local Thai Pastor and asked him about the signs. He told me that it is a Christian group from Taiwan who came here and plastered the entire country with them. It seems as if this Taiwanese group did not consult with the local Christians or the govt as both groups have been trying to get them to stop. (Govt - finds it unattractive and the local church thinks that there are better uses for the money used).

[SamSipEt]

It’s interesting to note that the likes of SarahH and Klop have been unable to offer ANY reason why the signs should be there. Perhaps they could redeem themselves in the eyes of their God by taking down these eyesores and remove the litter left behind by their fellow sheep.

But then again perhaps they are too busy praying and patting each other on their collective backs to do anything that is worthwhile.

[cmsally]

Noticed on the plane the other day, World Vision had a full page colour advert in the inflight magazine. Now those don't come cheap. So do charities now have to advertise to reach their yearly donation targets?

[SarahH]

It’s interesting to note that the likes of SarahH and Klop have been unable to offer ANY reason why the signs should be there. Perhaps they could redeem themselves in the eyes of their God by taking down these eyesores and remove the litter left behind by their fellow sheep.

But then again perhaps they are too busy praying and patting each other on their collective backs to do anything that is worthwhile.

Hey, idiot, when did I say I was a christian? I'm not, and don't want to be.

My only point here was to adddress clueless idiots like yourself, who bash people that they have no clue about

[KhunMarco]

[Dustoff]

~

Okay kids, wassup?

No need to be unkind to one another, eh? Read my signature line..

Being non-religious, I find all religions equal in that they all display the incredible variety of human imagination. This is a good thing; as Einstein said, "Imagination is more important that knowledge."

Well, sometimes anyway.

The sign issue is an important one. It almost goes without saying that people who would litter the beautiful Thai countryside are severely lacking in consideration for the sensitivities of others and I object to their obvious selfish agenda as I would if they displayed billboards of a commercial nature. And I don't have to know who they are personally to know that I am offended by their actions.

Are they 'doing God's work'? No.

Will their efforts help bring us together as a species? As evidenced by the reactions on these very boards, I would have to say no.

Can we introduce goodness and compassion into the hearts of others through arrogance and intimidation? Nope.

I would like very much to believe that these people are but a radical splinter group and that they really do not represent the Christian Religion or the teachings of Jesus; but then I am no expert on Christian mythology..

I have offered before on this thread to assist where I can to remove any kind of litter and eyesores from the Thai landscape and the offer stands. It is one thing for some local poor family to post a cardboard sign indicating that fruits and vegetables are for sale just ahead and quite another for biased groups to hang the signs many of us have seen in the mountains surrounding Chiang Mai.

A one-sided agenda by any other name is still a one-sided agenda.

But then perhaps my background makes me overly sensitive. I moved here from Hawaii where billboards alongside the roadways are strictly against the law and the 'locals' (myself included) happily and immediately chop down any such offensive displays. There is also the history of what the Christian missionaries did to the indigenous peoples of the Hawaiian Islands and I cannot help but imagine much the same happening in peaceful Thailand as proponents of a vengeful god (read the signs) seek to influence, selectively, the innocents of this population for their own purposes.

I am gettin' pretty durned old but if you have a pickup, I can afford a long ladder and tools. There is no way I am climbing that high but I can certainly hold the ladder while someone younger and stronger removes these abominations that serve only to offend...

Please help keep Thailand pristine.

[p1p]

Hey, idiot, when did I say I was a christian? I'm not, and don't want to be.

My only point here was to adddress clueless idiots like yourself, who bash people that they have no clue about

RIP SarahH.

With this flame, she takes an extended vacation.

[Dustoff]

~

While I am not a fan of censorship, bless you, p1p-squeak.

[p1p]

In the context of this thread, I fear I might prefer something other than a blessing!