Red Shirts And Multicolored Shirts To Rally For And Against Charter Change

[blows]

You'd think Thailand had more pressing issues just now.

For sure there are more pressing issues. Education, flood prevention, debt restructure to name a few. But these are all down the list. It is evident that the ruling party will put the Thai populace at risk of more violence and even worse in order to absolve Thaksin of his jail sentence and return his ill gotten gains. Sad but true.

RT@Aim_NT: Chalerm: I'm straightforward. I will bring Thaksin home. It depends on open chances and pol situation. I'll propose reconciliation bill soon

I rest my case!

He should say, that he will bring him home to prison and to face his other charges, if he had any FACE.

Edited February 23, 2012 by blows

[CalgaryII]

You'd think Thailand had more pressing issues just now.

For sure there are more pressing issues. Education, flood prevention, debt restructure to name a few. But these are all down the list. It is evident that the ruling party will put the Thai populace at risk of more violence and even worse in order to absolve Thaksin of his jail sentence and return his ill gotten gains. Sad but true.

RT@Aim_NT: Chalerm: I'm straightforward. I will bring Thaksin home. It depends on open chances and pol situation. I'll propose reconciliation bill soon

I rest my case!

He should say, that he will bring him home to prison and to face his other charges, if he had any FACE.

Yeah right!

Winning all those dam_n elections.

Who the hell did he think he was.

Into prison, and throw away the key.

And his sister better be careful. Win any more elections and she will meet the same fate.

[animatic]

No party should be able to dictate a Constitutional amendment of Thailand. It should require a super majority referendum vote of the Thai people.

Or a coup.

Or unilaterally taking back the PM job you have resigned from,

and then representing the country in the UN as if you were still the legal PM.

Torturing history to justify a coup is seen for what it is.

So twist it some more, it's your game not mine.

[CalgaryII]

Animatic, #33^

So twist it some more, it's your game not mine.

I'm not trying to justify a coup.

Quite the opposite.

Revising history to make a coup seem like it is not a coup, is akin to "torturing history so it says whatever one wishes"

Just the thought of it makes the toes curl.

Edited February 23, 2012 by CalgaryII

[JAG]

....Charter rewrites are too big as thing to be based solely on one parties campaign plank.

Absolutely right, best left to the Army!

Then you can put them to a referendum - something like accept our proposals or we just stay on?

[Reasonableman]

Perhaps a restorative foot or ego self-massage would help.

Animatic, #33^

So twist it some more, it's your game not mine.

I'm not trying to justify a coup.

Quite the opposite.

Revising history to make a coup seem like it is not a coup, is akin to "torturing history so it says whatever one wishes"

Just the thought of it makes the toes curl.

[CalgaryII]

Perhaps a restorative foot or ego self-massage would help.

Animatic, #33^

So twist it some more, it's your game not mine.

I'm not trying to justify a coup.

Quite the opposite.

Revising history to make a coup seem like it is not a coup, is akin to "torturing history so it says whatever one wishes"

Just the thought of it makes the toes curl.

LOL

[h90]

250 policemen deployed to keep security at parliament, #27^

With probably a national ratio of 100 - 1 (100 Red Shirts to 1 PAD....err multi-coloured) those PADites better be careful protesting in proximity of the Red Shirts.

Plus given the violent prone Red Shirts, as the R'song coupists would have you believe, even more trouble for the PADites.

Gulp!

Badly beaten or dead multi-coloured one might has a strong mobilization effect. PAD with support of the Democrats and a real reason could easily mobilize a lot people. With the police in the hand of Thaksins brother in law and violent red shirt the military would have no other choice than to prevent a bloodshed.

So in cynical way violence might help the yellow shirts.

[CalgaryII]

250 policemen deployed to keep security at parliament, #27^

With probably a national ratio of 100 - 1 (100 Red Shirts to 1 PAD....err multi-coloured) those PADites better be careful protesting in proximity of the Red Shirts.

Plus given the violent prone Red Shirts, as the R'song coupists would have you believe, even more trouble for the PADites.

Gulp!

Badly beaten or dead multi-coloured one might has a strong mobilization effect. PAD with support of the Democrats and a real reason could easily mobilize a lot people. With the police in the hand of Thaksins brother in law and violent red shirt the military would have no other choice than to prevent a bloodshed.

So in cynical way violence might help the yellow shirts.

Bang on.

The previous coup aggressors hope this happens, and they can do it again.

One way would be to do a self-righteous intervention between warring political forces.

They would be very instrumental in motivating the PAD to create conditions such as this for their brethren.

But if you and I know about this, you can be sure the UDD/RS braintrust do as well.

They are not about to fall into that trap.

[rubl]

...

The previous coup aggressors hope this happens, and they can do it again.

...

A bit pedantic, I know, but the previous coup was in 1992 as far as I remember

[birdpooguava]

Here we go, good old Tul Sitthisomwong. For those of you who don't know him so well here you go; "On 24 Nov 2008, Tul led a group of Chulalongkorn lecturers and students under the name of Siam Intellect to a rally at the Army Headquarters to call on Gen Anupong and the military to take a leading role in maintaining peace and order in society and maintain loyalty to the monarchy. Soldiers were the hope of the people in the protection of Nation, Religion and the King, he said at the time. Later, he went on to speak on the stage of the PAD, attacking the then Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat, saying that a jail sentence was not enough for him, because he who had ordered the killing of other people should also die [Tul referred to the 7 Oct 2008 incident in which the PAD clashed with police after the PAD surrounded and closed the Parliament compound]. Somchai must be severely punished after he was removed from office. Tul went on to say that, speaking as a doctor, love for the country and the king was embedded only in Thais’ DNA, not that of other peoples. It was a pity that many Thais had mutated and did not have the love for the king in their DNA and should not be called Thai, he said."

OMG please save us!!!!!!!!

[BigJohnnyBKK]

You'd think Thailand had more pressing issues just now.

More pressing than Thaksin's return? Maybe "Thailand the country", but certainly not the government. Listen, he's bought and paid for it fair and square, now's ROI time. Nobody gives a crap about the needs of the common people ferchristsake, what planet are you living on?

[tlansford]

You'd think Thailand had more pressing issues just now.

More pressing than Thaksin's return? Maybe "Thailand the country", but certainly not the government. Listen, he's bought and paid for it fair and square, now's ROI time. Nobody gives a crap about the needs of the common people ferchristsake, what planet are you living on?

Watching how the charter change has been brought forward and seeing the events around the aborted attempt at a pardon in December, I am starting to feel that the charter change will not be what white-washes Thaksin's problems and allows him to return to Thailand.

I feel more and more that he will need to negotiate a deal in private. Period. I think the election victory in July and the ability to launch a charter change will be some of the leverage he uses to cut a deal as favorable as possible for himself.

I don't think the charter change will white-wash all of his problems (maybe some, but not all) for a couple of reasons. One, it would be too blatantly obvious and the charter changes would not pass - or would seriously risk not passing - a referendum. Two, I think it would be difficult to make the changes to the charter to cover all of the possible charges which could be thrown against him. Three, cutting a deal seems more compatible with typical Thai politics. Therefore, I think he's going to be dealing behind closed doors.

But I do think that there will be a push for a charter change and that the changes will try to restore some of the democratic parts of the 1997 constitution which were lost in 2007 - eg : making the senate 100% elected.

This is just speculation on my part, but it feels like the direction this is going to go.

[rubl]

Watching how the charter change has been brought forward and seeing the events around the aborted attempt at a pardon in December, I am starting to feel that the charter change will not be what white-washes Thaksin's problems and allows him to return to Thailand.

I feel more and more that he will need to negotiate a deal in private. Period. I think the election victory in July and the ability to launch a charter change will be some of the leverage he uses to cut a deal as favorable as possible for himself.

I don't think the charter change will white-wash all of his problems (maybe some, but not all) for a couple of reasons. One, it would be too blatantly obvious and the charter changes would not pass - or would seriously risk not passing - a referendum. Two, I think it would be difficult to make the changes to the charter to cover all of the possible charges which could be thrown against him. Three, cutting a deal seems more compatible with typical Thai politics. Therefore, I think he's going to be dealing behind closed doors.

But I do think that there will be a push for a charter change and that the changes will try to restore some of the democratic parts of the 1997 constitution which were lost in 2007 - eg : making the senate 100% elected.

This is just speculation on my part, but it feels like the direction this is going to go.

As rumour has it there was a deal one and a half year ago between k. Thaksin and (probably) the then government which saw some frozen assets released to k. Thaksin. Not sure what k. Thaksin had to do / promise. If this rumour has some truth in it, a new deal would depend on how parties involved feel about the execution of the previous one. IMHO

Edited February 23, 2012 by rubl

[monkfish]

Didn't Mark predict this would happen just yeserday he must have a very good Witch doctor!!

[rubl]

Didn't Mark predict this would happen just yeserday he must have a very good Witch doctor!!

If you had paid a wee bit more attention over the last months you would also be able to predict protests from UDD for and protests from PAD against charter changes. End of 2010 / begin of 2011 the police was successful in keeping the two groups separated from each other. No reason they shouldn't be able to do same again, especially under the capable supervision of Dept. PM Pol.Captain Chalerm.

So far no crystal ball required

Edited February 23, 2012 by rubl

[nurofiend]

Didn't Mark predict this would happen just yeserday he must have a very good Witch doctor!!

he predicted political turmoil in thailand, i can predict something that a bear will inevetably do in the woods too

[AleG]

As rumour has it there was a deal one and a half year ago between k. Thaksin and (probably) the then government which saw some frozen assets released to k. Thaksin. Not sure what k. Thaksin had to do / promise.

...

The nearly daily bomb attacks around Bangkok, specially (purely coincidentally of course!) the ones aimed at banks that were holding the frozen assets, ceased after the alleged deal,

[rubl]

As rumour has it there was a deal one and a half year ago between k. Thaksin and (probably) the then government which saw some frozen assets released to k. Thaksin. Not sure what k. Thaksin had to do / promise.

...

The nearly daily bomb attacks around Bangkok, specially (purely coincidentally of course!) the ones aimed at banks that were holding the frozen assets, ceased after the alleged deal,

Thanks. Now that you say, I vaguely remember. I was just too lazy to search for more details. To my excuse it's 01:41AM and way past my bedtime

[monkfish]

Didn't Mark predict this would happen just yeserday he must have a very good Witch doctor!!

If you had paid a wee bit more attention over the last months you would also be able to predict protests from UDD for and protests from PAD against charter changes. End of 2010 / begin of 2011 the police was successful in keeping the two groups separated from each other. No reason they shouldn't be able to do same again, especially under the capable supervision of Dept. PM Pol.Captain Chalerm.

So far no crystal ball required

Bad timing I guess? but does look pretty bad

[rubl]

Didn't Mark predict this would happen just yeserday he must have a very good Witch doctor!!

If you had paid a wee bit more attention over the last months you would also be able to predict protests from UDD for and protests from PAD against charter changes. End of 2010 / begin of 2011 the police was successful in keeping the two groups separated from each other. No reason they shouldn't be able to do same again, especially under the capable supervision of Dept. PM Pol.Captain Chalerm.

So far no crystal ball required

Bad timing I guess? but does look pretty bad

A functioning and lively democracy has no problem with pro and contra demonstrations as long as they are peacefull and kept separate from each other. The last months of 2010 and the first few of 2011 have shown that.

[Buchholz]

Here we go, good old Tul Sitthisomwong. For those of you who don't know him so well here you go; "On

< remaining un-sourced, un-linked quote snipped >

Always good to identify the source and provide a link for your quotes of others.

.

[OzMick]

You'd think Thailand had more pressing issues just now.

More pressing than Thaksin's return? Maybe "Thailand the country", but certainly not the government. Listen, he's bought and paid for it fair and square, now's ROI time. Nobody gives a crap about the needs of the common people ferchristsake, what planet are you living on?

Watching how the charter change has been brought forward and seeing the events around the aborted attempt at a pardon in December, I am starting to feel that the charter change will not be what white-washes Thaksin's problems and allows him to return to Thailand.

I feel more and more that he will need to negotiate a deal in private. Period. I think the election victory in July and the ability to launch a charter change will be some of the leverage he uses to cut a deal as favorable as possible for himself.

I don't think the charter change will white-wash all of his problems (maybe some, but not all) for a couple of reasons. One, it would be too blatantly obvious and the charter changes would not pass - or would seriously risk not passing - a referendum. Two, I think it would be difficult to make the changes to the charter to cover all of the possible charges which could be thrown against him. Three, cutting a deal seems more compatible with typical Thai politics. Therefore, I think he's going to be dealing behind closed doors.

But I do think that there will be a push for a charter change and that the changes will try to restore some of the democratic parts of the 1997 constitution which were lost in 2007 - eg : making the senate 100% elected.

This is just speculation on my part, but it feels like the direction this is going to go.

Do you advocate criminals being allowed to cut private deals to avoid their court-awarded punishment?

With whom would such a private deal be arranged; who has the authority to void court decisions?

If a deal was proposed with the current government, wouldn't that be a huge conflict of interest?

[whybother]

Watching how the charter change has been brought forward and seeing the events around the aborted attempt at a pardon in December, I am starting to feel that the charter change will not be what white-washes Thaksin's problems and allows him to return to Thailand.

I feel more and more that he will need to negotiate a deal in private. Period. I think the election victory in July and the ability to launch a charter change will be some of the leverage he uses to cut a deal as favorable as possible for himself.

I don't think the charter change will white-wash all of his problems (maybe some, but not all) for a couple of reasons. One, it would be too blatantly obvious and the charter changes would not pass - or would seriously risk not passing - a referendum. Two, I think it would be difficult to make the changes to the charter to cover all of the possible charges which could be thrown against him. Three, cutting a deal seems more compatible with typical Thai politics. Therefore, I think he's going to be dealing behind closed doors.

But I do think that there will be a push for a charter change and that the changes will try to restore some of the democratic parts of the 1997 constitution which were lost in 2007 - eg : making the senate 100% elected.

This is just speculation on my part, but it feels like the direction this is going to go.

I would have thought that just by changing the constitution, you can't invalidate everything that has happened under the previous constitution.

There would need to be specific clauses that would say that specific previous actions were illegal / invalid.

[phupaman]

Hi All.

March 10 . 2 opposing groups meeting outside parliament to demonstrate, What are the chances

of the Royal Thai Police being impartial in their Crowd Control?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Nil

phupaman

[tlansford]

Watching how the charter change has been brought forward and seeing the events around the aborted attempt at a pardon in December, I am starting to feel that the charter change will not be what white-washes Thaksin's problems and allows him to return to Thailand.

I feel more and more that he will need to negotiate a deal in private. Period. I think the election victory in July and the ability to launch a charter change will be some of the leverage he uses to cut a deal as favorable as possible for himself.

I don't think the charter change will white-wash all of his problems (maybe some, but not all) for a couple of reasons. One, it would be too blatantly obvious and the charter changes would not pass - or would seriously risk not passing - a referendum. Two, I think it would be difficult to make the changes to the charter to cover all of the possible charges which could be thrown against him. Three, cutting a deal seems more compatible with typical Thai politics. Therefore, I think he's going to be dealing behind closed doors.

But I do think that there will be a push for a charter change and that the changes will try to restore some of the democratic parts of the 1997 constitution which were lost in 2007 - eg : making the senate 100% elected.

This is just speculation on my part, but it feels like the direction this is going to go.

I would have thought that just by changing the constitution, you can't invalidate everything that has happened under the previous constitution.

There would need to be specific clauses that would say that specific previous actions were illegal / invalid.

Agreed. As I said, it would be difficult to address all of the possible issues that could be brought up, ie: too difficult to cover everything just with a charter change - or too blatant, and therefore not acceptable in a referendum. Some issues could be white-washed, but it seems like not all of them.

Hence, it looks to me that via-a-deal is the only way he will come back. But it is just speculation/opinion.

[tlansford]

You'd think Thailand had more pressing issues just now.

More pressing than Thaksin's return? Maybe "Thailand the country", but certainly not the government. Listen, he's bought and paid for it fair and square, now's ROI time. Nobody gives a crap about the needs of the common people ferchristsake, what planet are you living on?

Watching how the charter change has been brought forward and seeing the events around the aborted attempt at a pardon in December, I am starting to feel that the charter change will not be what white-washes Thaksin's problems and allows him to return to Thailand.

I feel more and more that he will need to negotiate a deal in private. Period. I think the election victory in July and the ability to launch a charter change will be some of the leverage he uses to cut a deal as favorable as possible for himself.

I don't think the charter change will white-wash all of his problems (maybe some, but not all) for a couple of reasons. One, it would be too blatantly obvious and the charter changes would not pass - or would seriously risk not passing - a referendum. Two, I think it would be difficult to make the changes to the charter to cover all of the possible charges which could be thrown against him. Three, cutting a deal seems more compatible with typical Thai politics. Therefore, I think he's going to be dealing behind closed doors.

But I do think that there will be a push for a charter change and that the changes will try to restore some of the democratic parts of the 1997 constitution which were lost in 2007 - eg : making the senate 100% elected.

This is just speculation on my part, but it feels like the direction this is going to go.

Do you advocate criminals being allowed to cut private deals to avoid their court-awarded punishment?

With whom would such a private deal be arranged; who has the authority to void court decisions?

If a deal was proposed with the current government, wouldn't that be a huge conflict of interest?

I am not "advocating" any path/method to Thaksin's return, just expressing what I think is the most likely possibility.

[JAG]

Hi All.

March 10 . 2 opposing groups meeting outside parliament to demonstrate, What are the chances

of the Royal Thai Police being impartial in their Crowd Control?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Nil

phupaman

Pretty slim, for a start I expect that they will be warned off going anywhere near PAD by the Army!

[OzMick]

Hi All.

March 10 . 2 opposing groups meeting outside parliament to demonstrate, What are the chances

of the Royal Thai Police being impartial in their Crowd Control?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Nil

phupaman

Pretty slim, for a start I expect that they will be warned off going anywhere near PAD by the Army!

What's the range for a M-79 grenade launcher? On reflection, probably asking the wrong person.

[jayboy]

Do you advocate criminals being allowed to cut private deals to avoid their court-awarded punishment?

Well the criminals who launched the illegal coup cut themselves a private deal.True that there was no court decision because the case never came to trial, the charge of course (which would have been treason, a capital offence) far more serious than anything the unelected elite could lay at Thaksin's door.