Thailand To Build 11 More Toll-free Motorways

[Upcountry]

This is a GREAT thread, really appreciate the thoughtful and educated disucssion.

"The Thaksinization of Thailand", by by McCargo, Duncan; Ukrist Pathmanand:

http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/8791...1871001-8594639

http://www.teneric.co.uk/uk/8791114462.html

http://selectbooks.com.sg/titles/35879.htm

Clearly, the sense that Thai politics is somehow related to Western concepts is misguided.

Also, see: "Blood Brothers: The Criminal Underworld of Asia", by Bertil Lintner:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/140396154...glance&n=283155

http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=101430061

http://www.dcothai.com/product_info.php?products_id=428

See the links above for further insight. The current discussion about changes to the Thai constitution, or amendments thereof, are worth noting in light of the above suggested reading!

Nothing is as it may seem, even the most recent posturing about Burma!

I'm reading the former, and finished the latter, and feel well informed if frustred and sad. But also hopeful that time will bring balance to all sides... hopefull...

Edited December 12, 2005 by Upcountry

[Upcountry]

One hundred years ago, people were fascinated with electric lights at roof-top parties, the notion of inter-continental telphone conversations was sill "science fiction".

What will the next 100 years bring - or the next 20?

Post bird-flu, and the "so-first decade" terrorism fad, we'll be trying to re-engineer society. USA, Britain, China, Brazil and Thailand will all have to consider alternatives to the private fossil-fuel and other-resource consuming private vehicle.

We'll soon be living in a world where computerized "cabs" that come when you whistle via your mobile phone are more pracical than Mercs, etc. For that matter our "mobile phones' will replace the nightmare of M$/torjan/virius home space hogs!

Ah, future. Opps, duck that bomb!

[quiddity]

The ghost of Bob Moses and the NYC Port Authority still haunts us. His drive to build highways and by-ways has choked U.S. traffic patterns since the 1950s. Along with other goods and ills that the West exports 'round the world, it appears Bangkok is like so many other world cities that wish to get in on this part of the craze.

It's a shame, really, highways have managed to homogenize so much of the United States, at least the parts along roadways. I've driven the length of the country several times and it's like being on a tape loop. Burger King, Dunkin Donuts, Shell & BP...15 miles...Burger King, Dunkin Donuts, Shell & BP...15 miles...Burger King, Dunkin Donuts, Shell & BP...15 miles...

[เพลง]

Thailand just can't win can it?

If the road system is inadequate, a bunch of Farang cry out for more roads, when they propose to build more roads, a bunch of Farang cry out that it's wrong, always stressing how the Thai people are unable to think and act as well as Farangs.

If the Oil Depot that blew up in England over the weekend had been an Oil depot in Thailand, a bunch of Farangs would be saying how this accident could only happen in Thailand.

I think you guys need to take off your blinkers.

We all know how perfect it is in your own countries of birth and how you have no problems at all there, ( why leave ? ) but give Thailand a chance to progress in the way that Thai people see fit.

The state most western countries find themselves in is down to who ? 

I bet you would love to blame Thais for the poor state of your own countries too eh, but wait a minute, western countries are run by Farangs, so what went wrong?

Get real.   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well done to this guy....

In the threads I have read so far I find it hart to swallow how many people are constantly complaining about the "Thai way"... hel_l there's plenty of people (me for one) who'd kill to be living in Thailand right now... you chose to live there. Don't like it? Then leave.

[paulnuek]

Thailand just can't win can it?

If the road system is inadequate, a bunch of Farang cry out for more roads, when they propose to build more roads, a bunch of Farang cry out that it's wrong, always stressing how the Thai people are unable to think and act as well as Farangs.

If the Oil Depot that blew up in England over the weekend had been an Oil depot in Thailand, a bunch of Farangs would be saying how this accident could only happen in Thailand.

I think you guys need to take off your blinkers.

We all know how perfect it is in your own countries of birth and how you have no problems at all there, ( why leave ? ) but give Thailand a chance to progress in the way that Thai people see fit.

The state most western countries find themselves in is down to who ? 

I bet you would love to blame Thais for the poor state of your own countries too eh, but wait a minute, western countries are run by Farangs, so what went wrong?

Get real.   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Spot on.

Too many people try to put thailand down.

What about all those new motorways for the UK ???????

Ask anyone in the UK about our road system.......

[Darknight]

Only one problem in the world , be it thailand , europe or the US.

Corrupt politicians promising heaven and delivering heaps of shit.

Short term for everything , who cares what our children will get (or your children)

Richer getting richer, poorer getting poorer.

Extremism on the rise in all socieaties, not only muslim.

Heading for World WAR 3 or maybe The final WAR !!

[ssscud]

Woo hoo!

I can see your frustration with the farang, Or at least I can read it - in every post you make! I understand, I have seen many MANY foreigners come to my country and do not but complain as well -

But at least you CAN complain, in some countries if you say a word you are shot dead!

I can relate

Cheers and Beers,

Thailand will grow the way it is intended to.

Thailand just can't win can it?

If the road system is inadequate, a bunch of Farang cry out for more roads, when they propose to build more roads, a bunch of Farang cry out that it's wrong, always stressing how the Thai people are unable to think and act as well as Farangs.

If the Oil Depot that blew up in England over the weekend had been an Oil depot in Thailand, a bunch of Farangs would be saying how this accident could only happen in Thailand.

I think you guys need to take off your blinkers.

We all know how perfect it is in your own countries of birth and how you have no problems at all there, ( why leave ? ) but give Thailand a chance to progress in the way that Thai people see fit.

The state most western countries find themselves in is down to who ? 

I bet you would love to blame Thais for the poor state of your own countries too eh, but wait a minute, western countries are run by Farangs, so what went wrong?

Get real.   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Maigo6]

Woo hoo! 

Thailand will grow the way it is intended to.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Amen to that.

Or does Thailand need a Tony Blair or George Bush to show the world what they are made of?

Farangs make me laugh really, they still think they are colonizing the 3rd world, forget it mate, just show your passport and grovel to the THAI immigration officer when you want that extension.

All your huffing and puffing will never blow the house down, you will just have a heart attack trying.

Edited December 12, 2005 by Maigo6

[Artisan]

Woo hoo! 

Thailand will grow the way it is intended to.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Amen to that.

Or does Thailand need a Tony Blair or George Bush to show the world what they are made of?

Farangs make me laugh really, they still think they are colonizing the 3rd world, forget it mate, just show your passport and grovel to the THAI immigration officer when you want that extension.

All your huffing and puffing will never blow the house down, you will just have a heart attack trying.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That just about sums it up. Well said Maigo.....we farangs are not here as a favour to Thailand.

[Anon999]

Thailand just can't win can it?

If the road system is inadequate, a bunch of Farang cry out for more roads, when they propose to build more roads, a bunch of Farang cry out that it's wrong, always stressing how the Thai people are unable to think and act as well as Farangs.

If the Oil Depot that blew up in England over the weekend had been an Oil depot in Thailand, a bunch of Farangs would be saying how this accident could only happen in Thailand.

I think you guys need to take off your blinkers.

We all know how perfect it is in your own countries of birth and how you have no problems at all there, ( why leave ? ) but give Thailand a chance to progress in the way that Thai people see fit.

The state most western countries find themselves in is down to who ? 

I bet you would love to blame Thais for the poor state of your own countries too eh, but wait a minute, western countries are run by Farangs, so what went wrong?

Get real.   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I completely agree. A couple of weeks ago I met a guy who told me he would never live in Thailand permanently because the health system was so much better back home.

He's from the UK. Britain has the dirtiest hospitals in eurpoe. People are dropping dead all over the place from MRSA.

In Thailand can you go to a private hospital see a doctor with 5 minutes notice and be out within half an hour - all for less than 500 baht.

You're lucky if you can see a doctor half an hour after your appointment time in the UK.

And the health system is inferior how?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dropping dead from MRSA and of course the latest superbug which is even more lethal to patients of a frail disposition.

To see a doctor first of all you have to get an appointment which cannot be booked more than 48 hours in advance. A wonderful system that means you are told to call back tomorrow when they have no slots available. Secondly if you have to have an X Ray, for example, it takes over a week to get the result and about 4 days for a blood test.

Motorways we do not build them anymore just concrete over more and more of the overcrowded South East of England for houses. By the time they complete building all the new houses that two Jags Prescotts unelected SERA has planned it will make the rush hour in BKK look as crowded as the OZ outback.

Edited December 13, 2005 by Anon999

[Martin]

To Anon999 re post #40, and Maijo6, Heng, Grant etc:

Please lay off pointing out to the whingers that Thailand is a great place to live, and so much better than their Western countries.

You are all quite right, but the danger is that you might convince the whingers, and they might stop peddling their nonsense. Then we would get so many more of them coming that they would make Thailand so much worse.

I used to be annoyed about the whinging that "Thailand doesn't do things in the ways that we were brainwashed into believing were right".

And I was tempted to point out how doing things that way had made the Western countries such unpleasant places for me to live in.

But I now realise that the more they peddle their misunderstanding of what is of value and what isn't, the more Thailand has a chance of staying as it is (outside of Nana, Pattaya etc).

[Thai-Aust]

Thailand just can't win can it?

If the road system is inadequate, a bunch of Farang cry out for more roads, when they propose to build more roads, a bunch of Farang cry out that it's wrong, always stressing how the Thai people are unable to think and act as well as Farangs.

If the Oil Depot that blew up in England over the weekend had been an Oil depot in Thailand, a bunch of Farangs would be saying how this accident could only happen in Thailand.

Get real.   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said. I completely agree with you.

Road systems in Bangkok has been built for more than 200 years, so it's not a surprised that the traffics are so bad during the peak hours. Not many people could foreseen the situation on the road for the next 200 years, or could you?

[Suzy]

Thailand just can't win can it?

If the road system is inadequate, a bunch of Farang cry out for more roads, when they propose to build more roads, a bunch of Farang cry out that it's wrong, always stressing how the Thai people are unable to think and act as well as Farangs.

If the Oil Depot that blew up in England over the weekend had been an Oil depot in Thailand, a bunch of Farangs would be saying how this accident could only happen in Thailand.

I think you guys need to take off your blinkers.

We all know how perfect it is in your own countries of birth and how you have no problems at all there, ( why leave ? ) but give Thailand a chance to progress in the way that Thai people see fit.

The state most western countries find themselves in is down to who ? 

I bet you would love to blame Thais for the poor state of your own countries too eh, but wait a minute, western countries are run by Farangs, so what went wrong?

Get real.   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I completely agree. A couple of weeks ago I met a guy who told me he would never live in Thailand permanently because the health system was so much better back home.

He's from the UK. Britain has the dirtiest hospitals in eurpoe. People are dropping dead all over the place from MRSA.

In Thailand can you go to a private hospital see a doctor with 5 minutes notice and be out within half an hour - all for less than 500 baht.

You're lucky if you can see a doctor half an hour after your appointment time in the UK.

And the health system is inferior how?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Please tell me which hospital you go to. I waited two weeks for an appointment and then had to wait three and a half hours beyond the appointment time to see the doctor. They then asked me to pay 500 Baht - so much for Bumrungrad!

[nephron]

I completely agree.  A couple of weeks ago I met a guy who told me he would never live in Thailand permanently because the health system was so much better back home. 

He's from the UK.  Britain has the dirtiest hospitals in eurpoe.  People are dropping dead all over the place from MRSA.

In Thailand can you go to a private hospital see a doctor with 5 minutes notice and be out within half an hour - all for less than 500 baht.

  You're lucky if you can see a doctor half an hour after your appointment time in the UK.

And the health system is inferior how?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dropping dead from MRSA and of course the latest superbug which is even more lethal to patients of a frail disposition.

To see a doctor first of all you have to get an appointment which cannot be booked more than 48 hours in advance. A wonderful system that means you are told to call back tomorrow when they have no slots available. Secondly if you have to have an X Ray, for example, it takes over a week to get the result and about 4 days for a blood test.

Motorways we do not build them anymore just concrete over more and more of the overcrowded South East of England for houses. By the time they complete building all the new houses that two Jags Prescotts unelected SERA has planned it will make the rush hour in BKK look as crowded as the OZ outback.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, which system I prefer really depends on how much money I have. As a relatively lowly-paid worker here in Australia, I earn about 450baht/hr. As such, when I visit Thailand, a 500baht cost to visit a doctor and get medicine is pretty trivial.

If, however, I were to be one of my step-uncles, who earn 250baht/day... they might find that 500baht fee just a little more difficult.

[cutter007]

deleted

Edited December 13, 2005 by cutter007

[Plus]

Can we get back to highways? I, for one, don't want 11 more klongs leading all the way to Korat, or Nakhon Sawan.

Route 7 (to Chonburi) is only a two lane affair and becomes the longest traffic jam on public holidays, and the airport isn't open yet. Is anyone suggesting that Thais should build a klong running next to it?

[kat]

Quote SSSCUD:

"Woo hoo!

I can see your frustration with the farang, Or at least I can read it - in every post you make! I understand, I have seen many MANY foreigners come to my country and do not but complain as well -

I can relate

Cheers and Beers,

Thailand will grow the way it is intended to."

SSSCUD,

Are you aware that there are about 18 human rights and environmental activists that have been shot dead in Thailand over the last 3 years? And these are just the ones we know about, and do not include rampant and blatant initimidation tactics.

Opening your eyes and looking directly and critically at urgent issues of the state is not a crime, but it is rapidly becoming one. I look at all political, social, and economic issues critically, including my own country. It also helps to have a historical and well-informed viewpoint so that you know what your talking about. Looking at issues from abroad doesn't cut it, because you really have no idea about a society until you live in it.

For those people who are calling all critical discussion on this board a whinging session, I have to ask you, what are your interests in Thailand? Is it that you can find a woman easily and cheaply because of the exchange rates from your Western, so-called "cesspools"? I am certain that the vast majority of Thailand lovers here wouldn't give a rat's arse if they weren't enamoured with the shapes and accessibility of the women here.

Do you want to know why I'm here? I work with impoverished migrants from Burma, stateless hilltribes, and women and children that have been sold into sexual slavery. And guess what? A large majority of these issues are right here in Thailand.

[Plus]

Highways, that's the topic, isn't it?

[kat]

The ghost of Bob Moses and the NYC Port Authority still haunts us.  His drive to build highways and by-ways has choked U.S. traffic patterns since the 1950s.  Along with other goods and ills that the West exports 'round the world, it appears Bangkok is like so many other world cities that wish to get in on this part of the craze.

It's a shame, really, highways have managed to homogenize so much of the United States, at least the parts along roadways.  I've driven the length of the country several times and it's like being on a tape loop.  Burger King, Dunkin Donuts, Shell & BP...15 miles...Burger King, Dunkin Donuts, Shell & BP...15 miles...Burger King, Dunkin Donuts, Shell & BP...15 miles...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, I agree about Robert Moses. He was a meglomanic, and in addition to Port Authority he demolished the historic Penn Station. However, he never succeeded in plowing the Westside Highway through the West Village; nevermind what he did to the South Bronx and the outer boroughs.

Thailand just can't win can it?

If the road system is inadequate, a bunch of Farang cry out for more roads, when they propose to build more roads, a bunch of Farang cry out that it's wrong, always stressing how the Thai people are unable to think and act as well as Farangs.

If the Oil Depot that blew up in England over the weekend had been an Oil depot in Thailand, a bunch of Farangs would be saying how this accident could only happen in Thailand.

Get real.   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said. I completely agree with you.

Road systems in Bangkok has been built for more than 200 years, so it's not a surprised that the traffics are so bad during the peak hours. Not many people could foreseen the situation on the road for the next 200 years, or could you?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can you please tell me what road systems were built 200 years ago? Almost all transportation was by river or klongs, so I'm not sure what you mean. Large scale road and highway construction didn't really start until the 1960s in Thailand.

[Kido]

I think only in Thailand if you pay for the tollways 40 Bt and caught in jammed for hours, That's the wonder for paying money. Why don't the government thinking to reduce the BTS charges to encourage more motorist to used public transportation.

Give yellow line only for public buses, take off those smoke polutted tuk-tuk off the road,fined those taxi driver who stop and waiting customer at busy narrow main road. I think if they ready want to do it the attituted of 'Mai pen rai" should review by the city planner.

[englishoak]

Everyone has an opinion about the traffic/roads.

The situation is quite simple. Most countries who have a long enough history never planned or forsaw that one day not only would nearly every family own a vehicle but building/planning roads to cope is an impossible task without redesigning most of the infrastructure. Add infinity!!!!!

The answer is this. Sell the cars, always plan a trip and try to combine it with a full compiment of passengers, travel at night. Even better stay local and support the local community by buying local. (not Tesco's)

And the chance of that being a reality ? never I hear you cry.

I agree it will never happen, allbeit for one little spark of a possibility. A Global Great Depression. If that baby kicks in and it's a when not if in my book then the brown stuff will realy fly.

[Maigo6]

I think Tolls should be 20 baht for Thais, and 200 baht for Farangs.

[Heng]

And as always, I'd like to add my obligatory... increase the automobile tax already, first to Singapore levels, higher if need be. Some thought that automobile prices were high enough... apparently they are NOT.

[Martin]

LOL at the concept of a klong from Bangkok to Khorat!!

Somebody doesn't know his Geography, or his Canal Engineering , or both.

It would make Thailand the canal-lock hub of the world, though!!

[kat]

Am I the alleged someone? Why don't you address the people you wish to challenge or insult directly?

I said RIVERS and klongs. For your information, some of the first Chinese merchants and traders arrived via Rivers and tributaries.

The few roads that existed before WW II were feeders to the railroad system that was built with the help of foreign investment. After that, extensive national highway systems and local expressways were also built with foreign money.

Why don't you try to find out what you're talking before you shoot your mouth off at someone.

[Richard W]

If the Oil Depot that blew up in England over the weekend had been an Oil depot in Thailand, a bunch of Farangs would be saying how this accident could only happen in Thailand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The oil depot was run by Total, a French company. A few years back the residents of the area had to boil their water after the local water companies were bought and amalgamated by Eaux Généraux - the only time I can remember significant contamination of my drinking water. I suppose someone will claim these mishaps had no connection with the benzene contamination of Perrier.

[Butterfly]

I've driven the length of the country several times and it's like being on a tape loop.  Burger King, Dunkin Donuts, Shell & BP...15 miles...Burger King, Dunkin Donuts, Shell & BP...15 miles...Burger King, Dunkin Donuts, Shell & BP...15 miles...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Driving in the US is worst than Thailand. Falling asleep, not wreckless driving, is a major issue.

[Butterfly]

Or does Thailand need a Tony Blair or George Bush to show the world what they are made of?

Thailand does already, his name is Thaksin

[Butterfly]

And as always, I'd like to add my obligatory... increase the automobile tax already, first to Singapore levels, higher if need be.  Some thought that automobile prices were high enough... apparently they are NOT. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Singapore has an interesting system. You pay by the mile and during rush hours, the rate increase, and it increase even more in Downtown during Rush hours. Roads are very well built, nicely done and not much of a traffic problem despite the city doubling in size in less than 10 years.

An example to follow.

[greenwanderer108]

LOL at the concept of a klong from Bangkok to Khorat!!

Somebody doesn't know his Geography, or his Canal Engineering , or both.

It would make Thailand the canal-lock hub of the world, though!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am one who would entertain the idea of modern klongs (canals) painting the primary infrastructure map for Thailand instead of highways/roads. Sure, this isn't hardly practical looking at the current situation and the high capital it would require to make the conversion for a successful system..

Sure you can point out the nasty condition/smell of klongs today, but you can't fairly compare roads to klongs now. The only reason klongs aren't reliable is becasue they aren't made convenient/maintained, as roads make up the country's infrastructure. No, not because roads are more efficient and easier to maintain, in fact, the opposite. The only reason roads are/have been dominate the last half a century in the world is because they create lots of $$$ in not only the concrete/steel industries, but mainly the automobile and fossil fuel industries.

In a fair comparison between the canal and road, a canal based infrastructure (in theory) would be much more pleasant and beneficial for society and the environment. Sure you couldn't do it solely with canals, you'd have to have mass transit and bike/walking paths to fill in the gaps. Such a society would be less isolated and more active. Besides, the canal has more applications than the road.. i.e. sewage and better, irrigation (addressing water shortage/flood problems as well)

If you could imagine every interstate/highway in Thailand being replaced with a modern/maintained wide canal, with modern/regular speedboat transport every half hour/hour, and all the existing roads/streets replaced integrated as mass transit/bicycle routes, I think you would find all infrastructure/transport problems solved.

So in my ideal vision, Primary=canal, secondary=mass transit/human powered (i.e. walking/cycling)

Though I'm sure most of you who are more down to earth would have mass transit as primary, I feel that the canal would let Thais find themselves/identity in the modernizing world with a system that is authentic to their culture/history...and with the right investment/belief/devotion would just as successful if not more than mass transit.

That's my 5 baht.