Thailand To Build 11 More Toll-free Motorways

[troy04]

Hi Grant

may I ask which hospital do you visit?

I got quite an experiences with BKK hospitals. None were that fast, but I agree some of them are great! And for little cash too.

Actually the cheapest (governmental) were the best.

a story:

If you have thai friends: that 30 Baht Taksin threatment thing didn't work out well in the case of a traffic accident with my girlfriend (crashed from back from car, we on motorbike).

First we went to BKK General hospital for first aid and x-rays, cost 2 people each about 2500 Baht.

They said she broke 1 finger and must stay in hospital for 3 days, cost 40'000 Baht (not a joke).

Then we went to the 30 Baht Hospital from her card (she stays Ramkamhaeng and the hospital is far out on Raminthra (!!) very long drive).

they said, NO finger broken(!), medicine cost 400 Baht.

A Day later we went to Rama Thibadi Hospital, Government, wait long but cheap. I went several times and the doctors were great!

They said 2 finger broken, which was right!

With small clinics I made bad experineces, expensive and some doctors ignorant and arrogant!

Should I have rather opened a new topic?

>>>>>>>>>>>

Grant wrote:

I completely agree. A couple of weeks ago I met a guy who told me he would never live in Thailand permanently because the health system was so much better back home.

He's from the UK. Britain has the dirtiest hospitals in eurpoe. People are dropping dead all over the place from MRSA.

In Thailand can you go to a private hospital see a doctor with 5 minutes notice and be out within half an hour - all for less than 500 baht.

You're lucky if you can see a doctor half an hour after your appointment time in the UK.

And the health system is inferior how?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[troy04]

I think valueadded for big engines (expensive cars) or those with a star on the bonnet and 2000 for those with a escort or horses/emily/etc. dozens million cars!

And for motorcycles available and free!

Sure there are many Thais they are far richer than we can ever get it back home, considered the living costs anyway; compared to farangs living here in specific!

cheers!

another story:

my wish for x-mas: allow all flyovers for motorbikes! they dont damage or jam the roads so promote them! why they are banned from flyovers? why banned from some and some not? any logical explaination? how can ride straight if the road below the flyover doesn't allow to go straight? is that smart?

>>>>

I think Tolls should be 20 baht for Thais, and 200 baht for Farangs.

[Plus]

Motorcycles on flyovers? Why? Flyovers are built for cars so they don't get stuck at traffic lights for hours. Motorcycles can pass any intersection in one green - what are they going to gain?

As for downsides - motorcycles are slow, most flyovers don't have a separate lane for them so they hold up fast moving traffic and force people to change the lanes, squeeze between other cars - they put in danger not only themselves but all others as well.

What will happen to a family of five on a motorcycle - common sight - if a car's side mirror slightly clips its handlebar at 100 km/h?

Allowing motorcycles on flyover is like sending them to sure death.

[sierra01]

Motorcycles on flyovers? Why? Flyovers are built for cars so they don't get stuck at traffic lights for hours. Motorcycles can pass any intersection in one green - what are they going to gain?

As for downsides - motorcycles are slow, most flyovers don't have a separate lane for them so they hold up fast moving traffic and force people to change the lanes, squeeze between other cars - they put in danger not only themselves but all others as well.

What will happen to a family of five on a motorcycle - common sight - if a car's side mirror slightly clips its handlebar at 100 km/h?

Allowing motorcycles on flyover is like sending them to sure death.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have you ever ridden a m/c here? I have 125cc bike and I can keep up with most of the traffic without thrashing the bike to death. If speed limits weren't totally ignored, most bikes wouldn't be 'slow', as you put it. While I agree that m/c's ridden by the majority of Thai are accidents looking for somewhere to happen, car/pickup/truck/bus drivers aren't exactly blameless themselves. How many times have you had to undertake some muppet driving at 40/50kmh in the outside lane?

Family of 5 on a bike? As you say, a common sight, bigger fools them for doing it. The parents must really love their kids to place them in so much danger, without even the dubious safety of a Thai made helmet.

There are pro's and con's of bikes using flyovers and expressways, I think they should be allowed to, but then I'm only a stupid farang so what do I know

[steveromagnino]

There are pro's and con's of bikes using flyovers and expressways, I think they should be allowed to, but then I'm only a stupid farang so what do I know

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well at least you are honest

What would make more sense is if they built a flyover with a lane for the people on bikes to ride themselves to certain death if they so choose (and that includes almost all Thais and most of the foreigners I see on bikes who are a danger to themselves and to anyone near them). 4 stroke bikes be well good for the environment compared to a car innit.

Better yet?

- convert all mass transport vehicles to NGV reducing pollution

- encourage private sector to also drive around in NGVs

- more extensive MRT/BTS system which has already made a massive difference in the areas of operation, linked to the motorcycle/van system

- taxi stands are good suggestion, and being introduced by Dr T today I think again

- higher tolls on all highways from 7am - 10pm except the King's one for private vehicles - buses and public transport excluded

- more tolls for anyone farang going to Pattaya - we can call it the 'singlet and singha tax'

- upgraded train service

- more taxes on cars

- let me start dating Kae Chollada in some sort of oil lubrication capacity

- and so on

The reality? If we do not work in this industry or have some involvement in developnig the infrastructure of Thailand, we shouldn't bother to complain about it. Our complaints are falling on deaf ears, as most of the people here can't do anything about what we are complaining about! That said, I have done my bit, although unless someone asks nicely, I am not going to grandstand about my vast acheivements.

I am different. Somehow, my words, like the devine sound of Mr Farang in the Thai language threads, sounds like music from heaven to the ears of the big wigs in the 'ministry of transport, roads and other contraptions'. Hence why I write it down. Not for you lot of deadbeats mind, which according to Kat are (including myself) inthe vast majority a bunch of crazed sex tourists.....FYI Khun Kat this is not critical discussion for the most part, it is peppered with insinuations that Thai people are this, Thai people are that, hospitals ?!, your charity work in Burma ?!, a rather convuluted and ill thought out way to discuss roading in Thailand, but then again, I'm always up for a whinge.

Inovations proving that Thailand is 'not stuck in the box' which some people who obviously know minimal amounts about Thailand cannot see because they themselves have been in a box so long that the walls form a barrier beyond which they cannot escape, similar in some ways to a cardboard box? Please outline which of our mighty western countries have been soooooo kind to share with us:

- private van system operating within Bangkok and beyond, which uses a 'we leave when we are full system' thus providing a very competitive pricing structure without subsidy from the public sector for the most part

- motorcycle taxis

- motorcycle messenger who can also run errands

- a bus service which can transport someone a distance of BKK to Pattaya (about 130km) for a massive less than 80 baht (about $3NZD)

- transportation, again, not funded by the state, offering home delivery in much of Bangkok

[kat]

Quote steveromagnino:

"The reality? If we do not work in this industry or have some involvement in developnig the infrastructure of Thailand, we shouldn't bother to complain about it. Our complaints are falling on deaf ears, as most of the people here can't do anything about what we are complaining about! That said, I have done my bit, although unless someone asks nicely, I am not going to grandstand about my vast acheivements.

I am different. Somehow, my words, like the devine sound of Mr Farang in the Thai language threads, sounds like music from heaven to the ears of the big wigs in the 'ministry of transport, roads and other contraptions'. Hence why I write it down. Not for you lot of deadbeats mind, which according to Kat are (including myself) inthe vast majority a bunch of crazed sex tourists.....FYI Khun Kat this is not critical discussion for the most part, it is peppered with insinuations that Thai people are this, Thai people are that, hospitals ?!, your charity work in Burma ?!, a rather convuluted and ill thought out way to discuss roading in Thailand, but then again, I'm always up for a whinge. "

Stever:

If you need to distort my comments to make a point, then I really do feel sorry for you. It's obvious you don't have much to stand on, so I won't even bother to reiterate my points. Those who possess basic reading comprehension and analytical skills can figure it out for themselves.

[steveromagnino]

Khun Kat

It is my poor taste and sense of humour, sorry 'bout that

however, writing something like:

"For those people who are calling all critical discussion on this board a whinging session, I have to ask you, what are your interests in Thailand? Is it that you can find a woman easily and cheaply because of the exchange rates from your Western, so-called "cesspools"? I am certain that the vast majority of Thailand lovers here wouldn't give a rat's arse if they weren't enamoured with the shapes and accessibility of the women here."

could offend some people, particularly those who consider this thread to be a fairly large amount of whinge, not much critical discussion, and therefore have to be accused of being here to find women cheaply and easily?!

I would welcome a thread where we can all discuss some of the issues you raise, and look forward to seeing one.

[kat]

Hey Khun Stever-O:

Accept my apologies, too. Your points are well-taken. However, it is unrealistic to think that every thread - or most to be exact - is going to stay exactly on point like a mechanized instrument. The nature of discussion does not progress in that way, especially when people hurl insults, or feel that they have the right to censor others. If responses to such diatribes are offtopic, then the offending parties are the one's who initiate it.

Either way, this is a discussion forum. And I stand by my comments, within the context that they were raised.

edit: As for such threads that discuss the comments raised Khun Steve, why don't you do a search of past threads or my posts; it's all there

Edited December 22, 2005 by kat

[steveromagnino]

Hey Khun Stever-O:

Steve -o???

Like the guy from Jack Ass?!

Now that is an insult

I'll check some of your other work out over coming days

[kat]

No, no, no, no, no - I had no idea about the movie "Jackass". I have never seen it.

Steve-O was just my lame attempt to make a joke. No insult intended.

I'm sorry, Steveromagnino.

Anyway, you don't have to check out my "work". It's just my comments on this forum. You don't even have to agree with me, nor I with you - and I could still like you

You just can't tell me what to think, or what to say. But you can argue with me all you like

Cheers

[sierra01]

There are pro's and con's of bikes using flyovers and expressways, I think they should be allowed to, but then I'm only a stupid farang so what do I know

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well at least you are honest

What would make more sense is if they built a flyover with a lane for the people on bikes to ride themselves to certain death if they so choose (and that includes almost all Thais and most of the foreigners I see on bikes who are a danger to themselves and to anyone near them). 4 stroke bikes be well good for the environment compared to a car innit.

Better yet?

- convert all mass transport vehicles to NGV reducing pollution

- encourage private sector to also drive around in NGVs

- more extensive MRT/BTS system which has already made a massive difference in the areas of operation, linked to the motorcycle/van system

- taxi stands are good suggestion, and being introduced by Dr T today I think again

- higher tolls on all highways from 7am - 10pm except the King's one for private vehicles - buses and public transport excluded

- more tolls for anyone farang going to Pattaya - we can call it the 'singlet and singha tax'

- upgraded train service

- more taxes on cars

- let me start dating Kae Chollada in some sort of oil lubrication capacity

- and so on

The reality? If we do not work in this industry or have some involvement in developnig the infrastructure of Thailand, we shouldn't bother to complain about it. Our complaints are falling on deaf ears, as most of the people here can't do anything about what we are complaining about! That said, I have done my bit, although unless someone asks nicely, I am not going to grandstand about my vast acheivements.

I am different. Somehow, my words, like the devine sound of Mr Farang in the Thai language threads, sounds like music from heaven to the ears of the big wigs in the 'ministry of transport, roads and other contraptions'. Hence why I write it down. Not for you lot of deadbeats mind, which according to Kat are (including myself) inthe vast majority a bunch of crazed sex tourists.....FYI Khun Kat this is not critical discussion for the most part, it is peppered with insinuations that Thai people are this, Thai people are that, hospitals ?!, your charity work in Burma ?!, a rather convuluted and ill thought out way to discuss roading in Thailand, but then again, I'm always up for a whinge.

Inovations proving that Thailand is 'not stuck in the box' which some people who obviously know minimal amounts about Thailand cannot see because they themselves have been in a box so long that the walls form a barrier beyond which they cannot escape, similar in some ways to a cardboard box? Please outline which of our mighty western countries have been soooooo kind to share with us:

- private van system operating within Bangkok and beyond, which uses a 'we leave when we are full system' thus providing a very competitive pricing structure without subsidy from the public sector for the most part

- motorcycle taxis

- motorcycle messenger who can also run errands

- a bus service which can transport someone a distance of BKK to Pattaya (about 130km) for a massive less than 80 baht (about $3NZD)

- transportation, again, not funded by the state, offering home delivery in much of Bangkok

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You've made some 'interesting' points, some of it is pie in the sky though, and what the Thai should do and what they actually do are 2 different things.

Not all us foreigners on 2 wheels have a deathwish though, nearly 4 years here and I have never had to pick myself or my bike up off the road.....he says while touching as much wood as he can find

I use the BTS/MRT whenever I can, it's brilliant, but it'll take a lifetime to get an extensive system here, and integration doesn't seem to be in the Thai vocabulary. NVG is a good idea. Higher tolls? You'll make a lot of poor friends saying things like that. Upgraded trains? Not without privatisation. Higher tolls for Pattaya farang? Go for it, I never go there anyway! Comparing bus prices here and in NZ is a waste of time, NZer's don't earn 200bt per day do they?

And I still think m/c's should be allowed on flyovers

[Plus]

Bikes on flyovers - yes, some bikes are a lot faster than cars, but there are plenty, in fact sheer majority, of little Honda Waves with top cruising speed in low forties - they can't keep up with traffic on general roads, let alone on flyovers and overpasses.

Families with little children and no helmets on puttering along at turtle speed - its for their own sake that they are not allowed on flyovers. Somebody has to think about their safety - they apparently haven't got time to care much about it, or their lives, or their children's lives - they live hand to mouth and in their daily struggle a little motorcycle trip is a moment of joy, and they feel proud that they can afford it.

[troy04]

Did you recognice that some flyovers are allowed for bikes, even long ones (1-2+km) like on Rama9 towards/from Vibhavadi/Victory Mnt over Radchada etc. or the new one on Rama9 brings you to Pratunam? And also the flyovers along Ekkamai Expressway leading over Lad Phrao and Nawamin Rd. or one down at Rama3 from Klong Toey, and and and...

It's completely arbitrariness!

That flyover at Radchada over Phaonyothin: if I go below as required for bikes I can't even go straight!!! Isn't that completely idiotic?? How I am supposed to continue along the direction I am going?

I don't see any danger I wouldn't have down below the flyover!

They are not thinking about safety sure! And if they would think something, they would safe us from the pollution at the red lights! The bikes are slower because the cars block them, thats it! How many times the bikes around me can't ride their speed because the cars don't give way. Most bikes I see in 9 years riding in Bangkok were faster than cars! They don't need a seperate lane!

If they would think about safety they would better enhance the test for driving licences, do them in the real traffic not on a parking ground! I made both thai driver licences (car and m'bike), it's so silly what you have to do, it would be sufficent for a decent disciplined traffic as in US or northern Europe, but not for that chaos here!

As helmets can be used anything of half round shape, construction or baseball helmet included, what law? they are buddhists, they don't worry, they got a next life, who cares?!

I am not talking to allow for tollways, that could be done with a minimum engine size required (on the Philippines bikers are fighting for that access). But there are many times queueing up 10-20 Motorbikes in front of the red light instead of keeping the space free and passing by flyover. Cars can't pass anymore. OK, great, they made that yellow marked sport in the front for bikes, but how many cars respect it and keep it free?

You must well know how long you have to wait at red lights sometimes - endless, very annoying! Someone knows what the countdown lights are for? Back home they make the people switch off the engine, but here with air-con relied life....

M'bikes get stuck at traffic lights as much as cars, not as you say, it depends on the police cop switching the lights or rather fining some poor surviving bike courier allong and make a few baht to pay his mia noi...

The only we can escape the waiting time, is to do a left turn, followed by a u-turn just to enter the main direction again by turn in there again, cars can't that easy. But that depends the junction setup!

I made ten-thousands of Km on Motorbike in Bangkok, even on a big bike (BMW) which is quite wide, all between the cars, also on small bikes, this 110-150cc bikes do well over 80 (Honda Wave) to 140km/h (2 Stroke 150cc's)!

Those 'small' bikes can always keep up and sure mostly be faster than the cars in the city. One thing which makes it safer to drive here than for example in other 'wild' countries is that the cars are slow! I drove from Europe to here and past over 20 countries, and mad cities like Kairo, Beirut, Delhi, Calcutta, ...

They better would promote bikes, they don't damage the raod surface, the don't fill the roads with traffic jam, the police guy standing there would need less to be there and therefor less poisened...

I hit quite a few mirrors in those years, my handlebar never get cliped...

cheers

>>>>

Motorcycles on flyovers? Why? Flyovers are built for cars so they don't get stuck at traffic lights for hours. Motorcycles can pass any intersection in one green - what are they going to gain?

As for downsides - motorcycles are slow, most flyovers don't have a separate lane for them so they hold up fast moving traffic and force people to change the lanes, squeeze between other cars - they put in danger not only themselves but all others as well.

What will happen to a family of five on a motorcycle - common sight - if a car's side mirror slightly clips its handlebar at 100 km/h?

Allowing motorcycles on flyover is like sending them to sure death.

>>>>>

Bikes on flyovers - yes, some bikes are a lot faster than cars, but there are plenty, in fact sheer majority, of little Honda Waves with top cruising speed in low forties - they can't keep up with traffic on general roads, let alone on flyovers and overpasses.

Families with little children and no helmets on puttering along at turtle speed - its for their own sake that they are not allowed on flyovers. Somebody has to think about their safety - they apparently haven't got time to care much about it, or their lives, or their children's lives - they live hand to mouth and in their daily struggle a little motorcycle trip is a moment of joy, and they feel proud that they can afford it.

[otherstuff1957]

OK, here's my 80 satangs worth:

About motorcycles and flyovers: The 150cc to 200cc bikes have no trouble keeping up with the flow of traffic, they should be allowed onto the flyovers and motorways. The little scooters aren't designed for those speeds.

As someone Greenwanderer? Kat? pointed out, try taking the Klong SS boat from Banglampoo to Bang Kapi and then try taking the same trip by bus. The boat is almost twice as fast. It wouldn't be practical to build new klongs, but the existing ones should be utilized in high traffic areas. I would love to see the Klong SS ferry hook up with the Chao Phraya ferry service again!

Now about urban planning: During the last ten years that I lived in the US I lived in two different towns. One was an older town that was originally built around a commuter train service. The trains had long since been dismantled and many of the old tracks were torn out while I lived there, but their legacy remained in the form of a string of mini-downtowns up and down the island. When I lived there, I could walk to work and ride my bicycle to the nearest grocery story, hardware store, neighberhood bar or restaurant.

The second town was a typical suburb built in the '50's. The house I lived in was surrounded by nothing but other houses! If I wanted to go shopping or eat out or have a drink after work, I had no choice but to get into my car and drive!

All around Bangkok there are dozens of Moobaans being built. These new developments are designed just like the "gated communities' back in the US. They are just a group of houses without any supporting infrastructure. The residents of those Moobaans have to rely on their cars to go to work, go shopping, go out to eat, etc... Unless mass transit systems are extended out to those new developments the traffic situation will just continue to get worse and worse. Furthermore, if gas prices continue to go up, those developments may turn into a bunch of white elephants as people find the costs of commuting to be too excessive!

Oh yeah, what was this thread about? As for motorways, I don't have any objection to them, but they do need to be integrated into an overall urban plan