English As Your Mother Tongue?

[StreetCowboy]

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And it wasn't us who tore the walls down - it was those dam_n Geordies building sheep pens

Goes to show - the pen is mightier than the sword...

SC

[pastitche]

...

And it wasn't us who tore the walls down - it was those dam_n Geordies building sheep pens

Goes to show - the pen is mightier than the sword...

SC

Excellent SC.

[pastitche]

I was very lucky to be born in England, like winning the lottery of life, not sure that is so true today. What I think is worth a mention is that it is probably the world's language, a Tunisian told me that by the way, it may turn out to be one of the UK's greatest exports or gifts to the world and there have been a few. It is the most widely available language anywhere in the world, for us who speak it that is a great relief, I am a bit old for learnign new stuff now, but I get by with a bit of Spanish, French and Thai and they do the same with me. There is a fair bit of English to be seen in Thailand, I wonder how the locals think about that?

I think it is probably easier to learn than Thai as well.

The root of the problem with Thai and many other Asian languages is the tonal context. The Chinese have multiple thousands of words in their language however they tend to use variations of about 400 words in daily speech. These 400 words change with the intonation based upon the "4 tone" which are at the root of Mandarin Chinese.

So you may know the word, but if you don't get the tone near on perfect, the Chinese will look at you as your your from outer space. I had more than a few calamities when I tried to learn Chinese. Can you imagine Chinese being spoken with a Glasgwegian accent

You're from Motherwell - I can tell by your accent

Nearly, born in the ancient market town of Lanark, brought up in Wishaw.

You should have stopped at the born in Lanark bit. Wishaw? Words fail me old friend

[MAJIC]

Yeh, l was forced to learn French, l wonder why. Did they think at the time that the frogs were to become dominant. Perhaps they will but l will be under ground by then.

This was in preparation for when England invaded france again and installed the British monarch as the head of the country again....you need to be able to speak to the natives old chap...even if they do smell of garlic, wear onions around their necks and have funny little hats on..

Actually French was compulsory at schools ,more to do with our entry into the Common Market,which had at the time only two members:France and Germany.many years later the Con became clear,we were joining a Federation of Europe,not the Common Market of Trading Nations,as sold to the British people!

Sorry but that is just not true; French and German were taught as a significant part of the currculum long before the EC was even a dream. I knew people who were fluent in French and German since before WW2; they also were familiar with classical Greek and Latin

Was that a National Curriculum ? or Universities and Grammar Schools? obviously of a higher Class than my peers,it would seem,most of who never met a french or German person,as for holidays abroad to France or Germany,in that era 1950s onwards,it was never given a thought,excepting Teachers,mainly because it was financially impossible,so forgive me for seeing a use for being taught the two languages,after WW11,prior to which a practical use was difficult to see.

Incidently The Common market was established officially in 1958,although operating in a smaller form years before.

[StreetCowboy]

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Actually French was compulsory at schools ,more to do with our entry into the Common Market,which had at the time only two members:France and Germany.many years later the Con became clear,we were joining a Federation of Europe,not the Common Market of Trading Nations,as sold to the British people!

Sorry but that is just not true; French and German were taught as a significant part of the currculum long before the EC was even a dream. I knew people who were fluent in French and German since before WW2; they also were familiar with classical Greek and Latin

Was that a National Curriculum ? or Universities and Grammar Schools? obviously of a higher Class than my peers,it would seem,most of who never met a french or German person,as for holidays abroad to France or Germany,in that era 1950s onwards,it was never given a thought,excepting Teachers,mainly because it was financially impossible,so forgive me for seeing a use for being taught the two languages,after WW11,prior to which a practical use was difficult to see.

Incidently The Common market was established officially in 1958,although operating in a smaller form years before.

Though as I recall it was Edward Heath that finally managed to get us in, in the early 70s.

My memory of those times is a little hazy, but Wikipedia backs me up, despite his youth.

If I'm not wrong, people were not quite as parochial, even in those days, as some of our fellow posters might like to claim, and foreign travel was by no means unknown, though I doubt many of our parents' contemporaries would have had much cause to use Latin or Ancient Greek on their travels.

SC

[MAJIC]

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Actually French was compulsory at schools ,more to do with our entry into the Common Market,which had at the time only two members:France and Germany.many years later the Con became clear,we were joining a Federation of Europe,not the Common Market of Trading Nations,as sold to the British people!

Sorry but that is just not true; French and German were taught as a significant part of the currculum long before the EC was even a dream. I knew people who were fluent in French and German since before WW2; they also were familiar with classical Greek and Latin

Was that a National Curriculum ? or Universities and Grammar Schools? obviously of a higher Class than my peers,it would seem,most of who never met a french or German person,as for holidays abroad to France or Germany,in that era 1950s onwards,it was never given a thought,excepting Teachers,mainly because it was financially impossible,so forgive me for seeing a use for being taught the two languages,after WW11,prior to which a practical use was difficult to see.

Incidently The Common market was established officially in 1958,although operating in a smaller form years before.

Though as I recall it was Edward Heath that finally managed to get us in, in the early 70s.

My memory of those times is a little hazy, but Wikipedia backs me up, despite his youth.

If I'm not wrong, people were not quite as parochial, even in those days, as some of our fellow posters might like to claim, and foreign travel was by no means unknown, though I doubt many of our parents' contemporaries would have had much cause to use Latin or Ancient Greek on their travels.

SC

I was referring to the 50s and not the 70s

Yes it was Edward Heath who took us into "The Common Market" in the early seventies.and Degaulle said "Non" and kept England out of the common market for more than 20 years,prior to joining,so much for learning French at that particular time.

[pieandmash]

The one that fascinates me the most among the foggy isles languages is Welsh . . . odd, odder, oddest!

Scottish Gaelic, Irish Gaelic, Welsh and Benton all have their roots in the same Germanic language.....as pointed our earlier the orginal celts were German

No they don't; they are goidelic languages.

Not quite, Scottish Gaelic, Irish Gaelic and Manx are Goidelic languages whilst Welsh, Breton and Cornish are Brythonic languages. They are all members of the Celtic languages group and are not Germanic or descended from a Germanic language, though both Celtic and Germanic language groups are members of the Indo-European language group.

Scots is a West Germanic language and not descended from the North Germanic Norse language spoken by the vikings as claimed early on in this thread. Scots is descended from the Anglo Saxon language introduced by the Northumbrians when they conquered and colonised most of lowland Scotland. So the only Scots who can really claim to be Celts are the Highlanders, the rest are the offspring of Sassenachs

[theblether]

The one that fascinates me the most among the foggy isles languages is Welsh . . . odd, odder, oddest!

Scottish Gaelic, Irish Gaelic, Welsh and Benton all have their roots in the same Germanic language.....as pointed our earlier the orginal celts were German

No they don't; they are goidelic languages.

Not quite, Scottish Gaelic, Irish Gaelic and Manx are Goidelic languages whilst Welsh, Breton and Cornish are Brythonic languages. They are all members of the Celtic languages group and are not Germanic or descended from a Germanic language, though both Celtic and Germanic language groups are members of the Indo-European language group.

Scots is a West Germanic language and not descended from the North Germanic Norse language spoken by the vikings as claimed early on in this thread. Scots is descended from the Anglo Saxon language introduced by the Northumbrians when they conquered and colonised most of lowland Scotland. So the only Scots who can really claim to be Celts are the Highlanders, the rest are the offspring of Sassenachs

Your havering......I love it when the English think they know their history.

Edited March 1, 2012 by theblether

[tigerfish]

oh for <deleted> sake !

someone post a link of that Aussie midget running up and down, with his face painted blue and white blathering on about not ever having his freedom taken or something like that. just to keep them quiet.

wait a minute, what happen in the end ?

Edited March 1, 2012 by tigerfish

[pieandmash]

Your havering......I love it when the English think they know their history.

Really, care to point out exactly what is the "havering" part ?

[theblether]

Your havering......I love it when the English think they know their history.

Really, care to point out exactly what is the "havering" part ?

You led with the bold statement......so you tell me when the English conducted said mass breeding programme with our Bonnie Lassies?

[pieandmash]

Your havering......I love it when the English think they know their history.

Really, care to point out exactly what is the "havering" part ?

You led with the bold statement......so you tell me when the English conducted said mass breeding programme with our Bonnie Lassies?

I already did, guess you've never heard of the Kingdom of Northumbria.

[theblether]

Your havering......I love it when the English think they know their history.

Really, care to point out exactly what is the "havering" part ?

You led with the bold statement......so you tell me when the English conducted said mass breeding programme with our Bonnie Lassies?

I already did, guess you've never heard of the Kingdom of Northumbria.

Yes I have, that will be the same Northumbria that did not join as part of England until 1237. So prior to that date the notion of being English is wrong.

In fact I believe the original copy of the Magna Carta ( 1215 ) ceded Northumbria to Scotland, however the Pope overturned it.

Now we are getting pedantic. I am not anti-English, far from it. The Magna Carta was the greatest document ever produced and it was solely an English achievement.

Going back on topic about the English language, I believe the official language at time of the Magna Carta was Norman French, the Normans were Norse Scandanavian by descent, they invaded a land which had a melting pot of Gaels, Angles, Saxons and various other ethnic mixes. At the time of the invasion the Western Isles of Scotland were under Norwegian control. The language of the Church at the time was Latin,

My point is, English is a mongrel language, but it is a truly beautiful mongrel language. It has taken influences from everywhere and adapted these influences for itself.

This ability to adapt and absorb is the English languages' greatest strength. We native speakers should be immensely proud of it, it is undoubtedly the most egalitarian language in the world, and possibly the most egalitarian instrument in human history.

Edited March 1, 2012 by theblether

[poanoi]

German was part of my engineering school, it was mandatory to study German for any engineer, since we do so much biz with them.

Edited March 1, 2012 by poanoi

[MAJIC]

I turn my back for a minute and all those Old English coffin dodgers start moaning.

And that's what we expect of you,and don't forget,your coffin will also await you,oh wise one!

[theblether]

I turn my back for a minute and all those Old English coffin dodgers start moaning.

And that's what we expect of you,and don't forget,your coffin will also await you,oh wise one!

I'll be a gentleman and let you go first

[MAJIC]

I was taught at School (true) that Cornwall was the only part of of Britain that was not (truly) Colonised by the Romans in their 400 year rule of Britain,and that we (the Cornish people are the only true English people) and that the Wales and it's people have a similar claim.

Personally I have always felt I am a proper Englishman,who speaks proper English.

Footnote:

Apparently their wasn't much the Romans wanted in Cornwall,so there was only cursury pillaging and plundering,and slaughters ,on a minor scale.compared with the rest of the British isles.

[theblether]

I was taught at School (true) that Cornwall was the only part of of Britain that was not (truly) Colonised by the Romans in their 400 year rule of Britain,and that we (the Cornish people are the only true English people) and that the Wales and it's people have a similar claim.

Personally I have always felt I am a proper Englishman,who speaks proper English.

Footnote:

Apparently their wasn't much the Romans wanted in Cornwall,so there was only cursury pillaging and plundering,and slaughters ,on a minor scale.compared with the rest of the British isles.

Do you feel as though you missed out?

[MAJIC]

I turn my back for a minute and all those Old English coffin dodgers start moaning.

And that's what we expect of you,and don't forget,your coffin will also await you,oh wise one!

I'll be a gentleman and let you go first

Aaaaaw! that's why I like your posts so much your all heart really

Edited March 1, 2012 by MAJIC

[MAJIC]

I was taught at School (true) that Cornwall was the only part of of Britain that was not (truly) Colonised by the Romans in their 400 year rule of Britain,and that we (the Cornish people are the only true English people) and that the Wales and it's people have a similar claim.

Personally I have always felt I am a proper Englishman,who speaks proper English.

Footnote:

Apparently their wasn't much the Romans wanted in Cornwall,so there was only cursury pillaging and plundering,and slaughters ,on a minor scale.compared with the rest of the British isles.

Do you feel as though you missed out?

Not at all, we left that to the Barbarians!

[exeter]

The blether is indeed a wise soul, I have to admit that his bit about the English language being a bit of a mongrel is on the button, bits from everywhere, so what, it works well everwhere in the world, luckily for us.

I am not sure where the Magna Carta came into the foray, Runneymeade I think. Little bits that are never told are that it stated that should aero planes ever be invented that the language of the skies should be English, it also warned against the use of Green Shield Stamps in Victor Value and Tesco stating it would only end in tears. These 2 riders were written on a fag packet and stapled onto the back of the original document, not a lot of people know that.

[Berkshire]

The OP's poll is somewhat surprising: holding steady at 84% native English speakers. Which is surprising considering some of the English being used on these forums. Perhaps the 16% are disproportionately posting?

[villagefarang]

Then again there are those whose native language is indeed English yet they revel in trashing it. Any suggestion that they should perhaps try a little harder is met with vilification and contempt. If something is worth writing, isn’t it worth writing well? Assuming of course that English is your native tongue and you have a modicum of education.

If you want to be pompous, patronising and superior then you should have written "those whose native language". try a little harder

Thanks for catching that egregious error. Consider me properly chastised. Happy now?

Do you know that egregious originally meant illustrious, exactly the opposite of its current meaning? it was suggested early in the thread that criticism of others' usage of English should be treated gently; as a writer you should try to meet your own exacting standards.

I find I must once again thank you for pointing out that I am indeed a writer and like everyone else capable of making mistakes. In addition you illustrated my point the first time around with your personal attack, thereby allowing me to show a more civil way of responding when others point out our shortcomings. I could not have asked for a more cooperative subject.

[StreetCowboy]

The OP's poll is somewhat surprising: holding steady at 84% native English speakers. Which is surprising considering some of the English being used on these forums. Perhaps the 16% are disproportionately posting?

One should not confuse 'native' with 'fluent' or 'coherent'

SC

[Sing_Sling]

The OP's poll is somewhat surprising: holding steady at 84% native English speakers. Which is surprising considering some of the English being used on these forums. Perhaps the 16% are disproportionately posting?

One should not confuse 'native' with 'fluent' or 'coherent'

SC

Precisely . . . a knuckle-dragger from Mount Druitt, Cabrini Green or any given council estate would probably have more trouble expressing himself correctly than - say - a Pole who learned English at school

[StreetCowboy]

The OP's poll is somewhat surprising: holding steady at 84% native English speakers. Which is surprising considering some of the English being used on these forums. Perhaps the 16% are disproportionately posting?

One should not confuse 'native' with 'fluent' or 'coherent'

SC

Precisely . . . a knuckle-dragger from Mount Druitt, Cabrini Green or any given council estate would probably have more trouble expressing himself correctly than - say - a Pole who learned English at school

Emdaesezam 'incohee..' - 'imconpre...' seeifthaidinnaionnerstan'...

FergedditMairdrink!

SC

EDIT: I had to look up Cabrini Green, by the way. Turns out its nowhere near Juniper Green.

Edited March 2, 2012 by StreetCowboy

[Sing_Sling]

Precisely . . . a knuckle-dragger from Mount Druitt, Cabrini Green or any given council estate would probably have more trouble expressing himself correctly than - say - a Pole who learned English at school

Emdaesezam 'incohee..' - 'imconpre...' seeifthaidinnaionnerstan'...

FergedditMairdrink!

SC

EDIT: I had to look up Cabrini Green, by the way. Turns out its nowhere near Juniper Green.

I did my post-grad studies at Northwestern and inadvertently wandered off the beaten track in search of the depot where my car had been towed after parking too long in a Walgreens on a Friday night . . . frightening is not an appropriate word to describe my feelings of anxiety as I was stared at, not because I was very handsome . . . and one could hear gunshots among the flats.

I'd rather be in Mt Druitt . . . umm, perhaps not

[theblether]

The blether is indeed a wise soul, I have to admit that his bit about the English language being a bit of a mongrel is on the button, bits from everywhere, so what, it works well everwhere in the world, luckily for us.

I am not sure where the Magna Carta came into the foray, Runneymeade I think. Little bits that are never told are that it stated that should aero planes ever be invented that the language of the skies should be English, it also warned against the use of Green Shield Stamps in Victor Value and Tesco stating it would only end in tears. These 2 riders were written on a fag packet and stapled onto the back of the original document, not a lot of people know that.

And clause 23 'verily we decree that any old wingeing bast*rd who resideth in Siam shall have their pension frozen forever'

Edited March 2, 2012 by theblether

[Thaddeus]

My point is, English is a mongrel language, but it is a truly beautiful mongrel language. It has taken influences from everywhere and adapted these influences for itself.

This ability to adapt and absorb is the English languages' greatest strength. We native speakers should be immensely proud of it, it is undoubtedly the most egalitarian language in the world, and possibly the most egalitarian instrument in human history.

Beautifully put.

[jombom]

I was taught at School (true) that Cornwall was the only part of of Britain that was not (truly) Colonised by the Romans in their 400 year rule of Britain,and that we (the Cornish people are the only true English people) and that the Wales and it's people have a similar claim.

Personally I have always felt I am a proper Englishman,who speaks proper English.

Footnote:

Apparently their wasn't much the Romans wanted in Cornwall,so there was only cursury pillaging and plundering,and slaughters ,on a minor scale.compared with the rest of the British isles.

Methinks your teacher was incorrect. Below from Wiki

Cornish is one of the Brythonic languages, which constitute a branch of the Celtic languages. This branch also includes the Welsh, Breton, the extinct Cumbric, and perhaps the hypothetical Ivernic languages. The Scottish Gaelic, Irish, and Manx languages are part of the separate Goidelic branch. Cornish shares about 80% basic vocabulary with Breton, 75% with Welsh, 35% with Irish, and 35% with Scottish Gaelic.

Perhaps your teacher used the word Briton (Breton) rather than English, and you made a simple error.