Is It Legal?

[easethesqueeze]

Hello everyone,

Really need some urgent advice as a psycho EX has me in her sights (what a surprise!!) and is threatening me with all kinds of madness.

I live here and have done for while traveling back home as and when my tourist visa expires. I need to know if what i'm doing is technically illegal or not. I come here and i buy lots of stuff and send it home to a friend who sells it. Artwork, antiques etc etc. Then he sends me money and that supports my stay here. Am i working here?? I don't make Thai Baht and i am not legally signed up as a business owner or anything like that. She's threatening to have me kicked out of the country basically and i just need to know what my legal standing is and how i should tackle this most irritating of situations.

Please only give advice if you are sure you know what you are talking about or have had similar experience in these matters etc

Thanks Very much!!

[cdnvic]

I'll put this in the visa section where you're more likely to get sensible advice.

[easethesqueeze]

I'll put this in the visa section where you're more likely to get sensible advice.

thanks

[lopburi3]

Any work done in Thailand requires a work permit which you do not have if here on a tourist visa. That you are getting paid and using that for your stay I suspect is even more damaging.

[attrayant]

Well since you are forbidding WAGs, I will simply refer you to this thread where in a moderator claims that gainful work of any sort - even for an employer that is outside of Thailand - is illegal as long as YOU are in Thailand.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?/topic/533658-Please Help- Info Overload Re Visa!#entry5057114

Specifically post #6.

[attrayant]

D'oh. Ninja'd by the very source I was quoting.

[easethesqueeze]

Any work done in Thailand requires a work permit which you do not have if here on a tourist visa. That you are getting paid and using that for your stay I suspect is even more damaging.

But is what i'm doing work though, buying stuff and sending it home, then surely it would be illegal to send stuff home then.

[Slaps]

Your doing nothing wrong mate don't worry,

give her the elbow and move

.

[cardholder]

I don't have personal knowledge but, in an attempt to keep the thread live, I will make the following observations:-

1. I suspect that the "lots of stuff" may be a factor. If it Thai silk, wooden artifacts, T-Shirts, spices or anything 'kosher' then you can easily argue that you are buying on behalf of a friend or even buying for yourself and sending home as an investment for the future. I personally think that is very thin ice for your Gf to be on - unless she is either paying the police in readies, or kind. If the "lots of stuff" is cigarettes or anything on the wrong side of the law then it is you that may be treading on thin ice.

2. I have copied the following from a Thai website and the area is very grey - however, I think that the authorities need to have 'just cause' to make a case against you:-

According to Thai labor law, the definition of work is "exerting effort" and "employing knowledge", "whether or not for wages or other benefits", and is based on the individual, not employment as in some other countries. This is typical of Thai law -- remaining vague, and leaving flexible judgement to officials, thereby eliminating legal loopholes and haggling.

In practice, it tends to get enforced only about foreigners working for Thai companies in Thailand, or doing other business in Thailand with Thai entities, i.e., dual entity relationships, when both are in Thailand, both employment and consulting. For example, if a company in Thailand employs you in Thailand without a work permit, then it is enforced. Secondly, it is also enforced against single entities who compete with Thais such as foreigners in the travel business serving other foreigners, or in import-export without proper registration. This is not all-inclusive, but it gives you an idea.

It is extremely rare for anyone doing work like stock trading in the US or web design for a UK company from their home alone to be hassled, unless the officials have reason to believe these are covers for actual work in Thailand, or have any indication that any entity involved has anything significant to do with Thailand.

[Slaps]

He's shopping and sending it home, that's it

what's the problem?

You only know the money he earns is sent back co's he told you

Work permit my asre

.

.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Clearly illegal.

[easethesqueeze]

wow that's great thanks so much for your swift replies, I mean technically i am just buying stuff for a friend nothing dodgy like cigarettes or anything just bits and bobs that he can sell in his shop back home.

She's just going crazy all i said was that i didn't want to see her anymore!! Surely i have a right to that don't i ?! I would have supported her setting up her new life and everything, she's reallly shot herself in the foot here, what a <deleted>!

[Slaps]

Clearly illegal.

So everyone who sends shi it back home is breaking the law

sort it out!

.

[cdnvic]

Can you afford to stop for awhile and remove her grip on you?

As for legality, even volunteers helping out in disasters have been warned about working without permits.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Clearly illegal.

So everyone who sends shi it back home is breaking the law

sort it out!

.

No, everyone who bases themselves in Thailand and makes a living runningan export operation is breaking the law.

[Slaps]

Volunteers helping out in disasters are working here on the ground

He is shopping, That's what Thailand is all about

.

[Slaps]

Clearly illegal.

So everyone who sends shi it back home is breaking the law

sort it out!

.

No, everyone who bases themselves in Thailand and makes a living runningan export operation is breaking the law.

Well if he is sending containers then I am wrong

But I think he is sending parcels

.

[dean999]

Clearly illegal.

So everyone who sends shi it back home is breaking the law

sort it out!

.

I agree.

What if you were buying the stuff in Thailand, flying home with it and selling it. Coming back to spend the money in Thailand. All your doing is cutting out the flight. I would tell her to do one. She's just being a bi_ch.

[beano2274]

The OP is not shopping if he is getting paid for it, he is buying and selling goods, and exporting them. This is defined by the law as working, therefore his GF could shop him, however, it is mostly a ploy to get you to want her back and beg her to forgive you. Show her the door.

[cardholder]

The OP is not shopping if he is getting paid for it, he is buying and selling goods, and exporting them. This is defined by the law as working, therefore his GF could shop him, however, it is mostly a ploy to get you to want her back and beg her to forgive you. Show her the door.

Hear hear.

Change your address and phone number.

[Beetlejuice]

If you are sending items or goods from Thailand to abroad and selling them for a profit, than technically you are running an export business.

That’s all fine if you can get away with it by not declaring this to the Thai authorities, also I would guess that you are not declaring the items to the customs and excise personnel at the destination country, plus there are specific items that are prohibited from being taken out of Thailand and certain professions prohibited for foreigners here.

The bottom line is; that if someone tips off the Thai authorities and perhaps custom and excise in your own country, than yes, you could be in deep do dars.

My advise is if you want peace of mind, is to do everything above board and declare all your profit making activities to the applicable authorities and if you find that paying the imposed duties on the goods is not viable, than give it up and call it a day.

Whatever you do is at your discretion, but I’m sure you realise that you’re have to face the consequences if you get tumbled.

Good luck to all who sail in her, rather you than me.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Beetlejuice

[Gone]

1) What you are doing is not legal.

2) One person has already copy and pasted the definition of "work"

3) You probably have got away with it if you didn't mention it here. They do have people policing this site the same as they have policing craigslist

If she can prove from receipts, bank statements (if incriminating), photos etc. etc then you should move away. If you are in Bkk just move to the next street and you will probably never see her again.

[IMA_FARANG]

Not Good

According to Thai labor law, the definition of work is "exerting effort" and "employing knowledge", "whether or not for wages or other benefits", and is based on the individual, not employment as in some other countries. This is typical of Thai law -- remaining vague, and leaving flexible judgement to officials, thereby eliminating legal loopholes and haggling.

In practice, it tends to get enforced only about foreigners working for Thai companies in Thailand, or doing other business in Thailand with Thai entities, i.e., dual entity relationships, when both are in Thailand, both employment and consulting. For example, if a company in Thailand employs you in Thailand without a work permit, then it is enforced. Secondly, it is also enforced against single entities who compete with Thais such as foreigners in the travel business serving other foreigners, or in import-export without proper registration. This is not all-inclusive, but it gives you an idea.

It is extremely rare for anyone doing work like stock trading in the US or web design for a UK company from their home alone to be hassled, unless the officials have reason to believe these are covers for actual work in Thailand, or have any indication that any entity involved has anything significant to do with Thailand.

That qoute about sums it up.

You are deinately "exerting effort" and employing knowledge, whether or not for wages or other benefits"

As the quote says it is vague and seldom used on individuals actually running a business in Thailand...but the law could very easily be interpreted to apply to something like what your doing.

The real question is....does Ex have the proof and knows the people to make a valid complaint that someone will want to look into?

But anyhow, your problem won't be with immigration and your visa...it will probably be with the Thai income tax people.

Because they will:

interpret the activity as work in Thailand

interpret any compensation as income from that work activity in Thailand

and come after you for Thai income tax on that income.

For the record many years ago I knew an American who was doing roughly the same thing. He however, was a legal partner in a business in the U.S. with another person who sold the stuff my friend bought in S,E, Asia (Thailand included), The two partners had a legal fallout, the one actually doing the selling in the store used some "creative" accounting to hide U.S. taxes from the IRS...and they caught him.

My friend, the partner, was not involved in the "creative" accounting...but the IRS investigated him also. Somehow, the information about him buying stuff here in Thailand got back to the Thai Tax people here in Thailand. They came after him for unpaid Thai income tax....but as I recall they simply didn't have the proof. My friend however, left Thailand...and never came back.

So, fair warning, be very very careful.

Edited March 1, 2012 by IMA_FARANG

[easethesqueeze]

wish it was that simple sadly there is a kid involved, she doesn't have the capacity to see beyond her own completely illogical selfish take on the situation and therefor is hell bent on destruction. She's had a good run out of the relationship and relatively speaking has lived in the lap of luxury for a good few years now. Sadly it looks like i will have to move on to greener pastures, legal battles will inevitably ensue and the loss will be the kids. Very sad state of affairs.

[easethesqueeze]

everything i've sent has been payed up in full regarding import tax etc like i said it has all been payed for by the guy who sells it and is all legally accounted for in his name.

[chinook]

Thai girls regularly make this kind of threat, but rarely go through . the process of losing even more face in the local cop shop. Change address and sim card, choose a better girl next time.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Clearly illegal.

So everyone who sends shi it back home is breaking the law

sort it out!

.

No, everyone who bases themselves in Thailand and makes a living runningan export operation is breaking the law.

Well if he is sending containers then I am wrong

But I think he is sending parcels

.

Makes no difference.

[easethesqueeze]

The OP is not shopping if he is getting paid for it, he is buying and selling goods, and exporting them. This is defined by the law as working, therefore his GF could shop him, however, it is mostly a ploy to get you to want her back and beg her to forgive you. Show her the door.

No i'm not selling them, that's the point.

[stoneyboy]

The worst thing you could possibly do is to come on here posing such questions.

[thrilled]

there are so many people that buy stuff in thailand and take it to their home and sell it.

it's that way throughout the world.Maybe this might be a little extreme