Do I Have An Electrical Grounding Problem In My House?

[Crossy]

Terry got there first, you have a 30/100 meter

You may have to use a different brand of RCD as Safe-T-Cut don't appear to do a 100A unit.

[Litlos]

Different model Safe-T-Cut for 100A = http://www.safe-t-cut.com/eng/index.php?name=product&file=readproduct&id=28

Cheers

[Crossy]

Well spotted that man ^^^

[thaibeachlovers]

A Safe-T-Cut is a local brand of RCD. Your local sparks will know what a Safe-T-Cut is rather than trying RCD or RCBO, it goes on the load side of the meter. It's rating is determined by the meter type you have, they're usually 50A for a 15/45 meter.

With TT an RCD is VITAL and even with a MEN connection it provides a useful increase in your safety.

A ground rod alone is unlikely to have a low enough resistance to open an MCB in the event of a L-E fault and will provide zero protection from direct contact with a live wire. An RCD will do both.

Have a read of this document http://www.beama.org...7188608E386D98D

Hi Crossy,

I don't think I have this MEN thing. This is a photo of the inside of my 2 fuse boxes at time of house building (near completion of electrical wiring.

Probably tell you much more than me though I am not happy to see so much insulation tape no doubt due to inadequate lengths of some wires. I had the cable sleeves removed as I felt ugly and did not like screws being screwed into it and it moved and was too small. I quickly got a carpenter after house build finished to hide the cabling in a plaster boarded box type frame.

I have looked at the Safe T- Cut units http://www.safe-t-cu...hp?name=product but do not know which I should target or what level of Amp rating ability I need.

Perhaps you'd be kind enough to suggest which should do the job in a large house of 3 people (I appreciate you cannot be certain without seeing house so what would be a likely AMP with a little to spare but but an excessive over the top level). The most power fixtures are the water heaters 5Kw and 8KW (no idea why the 5KW is not only faster at heating up but heats up higher ss well. Will not cry when the German made 8KW unit dies and I will replace with the same make and model (if possible) as the 5Kw unit (Italian I think).

Many thanks

Dave

It's difficult to tell from your photo, but the tape seems more to keep wires together, rather than extend them.

I'm with Crossy on this one. I'd be down to the elecrical shop to replace the entire thing with something better.

[thaibeachlovers]

It doesn't look like you have MEN, do NOT that's NOT install it unless you KNOW your area is wired for it.

What size meter do you have, it will be marked 5/15, 15/45 or 30/100? Your Safe-T-Cut should be respectively 20A, 50A, 100A (or the nearest they do) one of the Super-Plus range is what you need. I hope you have at least a 15/45.

I would not have accepted that installation, in fact I would have physically ejected the sparks from the site. Taped joints (every one a potential fire) and inconsistent colour codes are a start, I would also be suspect of the cable sizes being used although it's difficult to tell actual sizes and breaker ratings from the images.

Will a lower rated Safe T Cut work OK? ie using a 50A on his 30/100A meter box.

[thaibeachlovers]

I know that my light bulb tester won't sort your problem, but it will tell you if your earth is OK.

Forgive my ignorance thaibeachlovers but isn't my Toshino unit essentially running the same test.

Namely;

1) My Toshino with NO Ground shows a Very Bright Red LED = (in your test) I assume Bulb OFF completely

2) My Toshino 100% good Ground shows Red LED OFF = (in your test) I assume Bulb ON brightly

and my situation

Pretty good Ground= Toshino shows Dim Red LED (maybe the 7-8 volts Neutral to Ground my multimeter found which Crossy considered nothing to worry about. = (in your test) I assume maybe a very dimly light bulb

or am I misunderstanding something thaibeachlovers

Regard, Dave

I'm not sure. Using the Toshino seems complicated to me, while the bulb tester is simple and there is no possibility of error. Either the bulb lights brightly, or it doesn't. So at least you know for sure if the earth is OK before getting into the whole red bulb green bulb situation. I was getting very stressed before trying that, measuring resistances in various places. It also doesn't require long pieces of wire, and works on any plug in the house.

[thaibeachlovers]

A Neutral-Ground voltage of 7-8V suggests you have a TT earthing system, it's almost certain that it is this voltage causing the LED to glow. Nothing to worry about.

Do you have an RCD or Safe-T-Cut?

Had to look up TT (but worth it as I learn). Yes my House's Grounding is completely based on that one 4 or 6mm wire connected to the 2 metre Rod.

No I do not have any House RCD or Safe-T-Cut (obviously the showers and water heaters each have their own cut-outs as well as ground to Soil wiring). Resources were very low after my builder overspent on the House and following repairs I needed for poor work that I did not follow that up and forgot about it as a priority as I never experienced any electrical problems AND I relied on my Toshino (genuinely counted as part of my houses electrical safety protection) warning me if Ground ever failed or deteriorated (as I see it daily when using my PC. The ONLY reason I did not notice the dimly lit Red LED before is that the socket is at a45 Degree angle and 20inches from where to where I sit. The Green LED could be clearly seen but the Red being so dim could only be seen viewed straight on as its low glow in invisible otherwise.

Yesterday I moved the Toshino to a more out in the open and directly visible position (only 12 inches from where I sit). ANY future changes/deterioration in the LEDs form current levels will be immediately seen by me.

----

Is an RCD or Safe -T-Cut the same thing. If not, which provides better protection all round? IF same protection which is easiest to install in a already running system and would I expect a one to be cheaper?

What power handling ability safe-T -Cut or RCD would be advisable? Would I get an electrician to situate in in between supply to house and just before my Fuse Box meters I trust it can cope with two thick power wires out to each Fuse box.

How important is it I get an RCD or Safe-T-Cut Crossy. I ask, as I had assumed the non mechanical Rod was the safest by far and negated the importance of such mechanical devices. Am I correct in assuming that your thinking is that such a device would be a good backup in case of a poor/no Ground connection due to corrosion, dry soil, wire cut etc.

Regards, Dave

<Grounding is completely based on that one 4 or 6mm wire connected to the 2 metre Rod>.

In the OP you said 3 meter rod. If it is only 2 meter, you may need to add another rod. Everything I have read, and everyone that I have asked say a minimum of 3 meters. However, I have yet to see a 3 meter rod outside of Home Pro. I've used 2 x 2 meter rods connected together.

[Crossy]

Will a lower rated Safe T Cut work OK? ie using a 50A on his 30/100A meter box.

It will indeed work, but he will be limited to 50A, 1/2 of his available supply.

As noted by Litlos, Safe-T-Cut do in fact make a 100A version.

[thaibeachlovers]

Will a lower rated Safe T Cut work OK? ie using a 50A on his 30/100A meter box.

It will indeed work, but he will be limited to 50A, 1/2 of his available supply.

As noted by Litlos, Safe-T-Cut do in fact make a 100A version.

Thanks Crossy.

[electau]

A Neutral-Ground voltage of 7-8V suggests you have a TT earthing system, it's almost certain that it is this voltage causing the LED to glow. Nothing to worry about.

Do you have an RCD or Safe-T-Cut?

If your polarity testing is correct it is quite normal to have a voltage reading between the N and E when the earthing system is TT. You should have 30mA RCD protection on all your circuits. You do the polarity testing at the switchboard, L to N, L to E, N to E. then at your socket outlets.

[thaibeachlovers]

I just bought power strip. I wanted a 6 socket individually switched strip, but could only find a 5 socket surge protected job. Don't want or need the surge protector, but TIT.

Anyway, like the OP, mine has a red and green light. Currently only the red light shines brightly when plugged in, but on reading the instructions, they are so confusing ( made in China and obviously written by someone NOT fluent in English ) I have no idea as to whether the red light means there is or is not a good earth, or if it should be green only. The only thing I can be sure of is that if both red and green shine together it isn't safe to use the strip, though it doesn't say what to do in that event.

[bankruatsteve]

I just bought power strip. I wanted a 6 socket individually switched strip, but could only find a 5 socket surge protected job. Don't want or need the surge protector, but TIT.

Anyway, like the OP, mine has a red and green light. Currently only the red light shines brightly when plugged in, but on reading the instructions, they are so confusing ( made in China and obviously written by someone NOT fluent in English ) I have no idea as to whether the red light means there is or is not a good earth, or if it should be green only. The only thing I can be sure of is that if both red and green shine together it isn't safe to use the strip, though it doesn't say what to do in that event.

If all you want is a power stip extension - well, it either works (as an extension) or it doesn't. The lights (from the ones I've had) just tell you the receptacle is active. Otherwise don't worry about it.

[gdhm]

Will a lower rated Safe T Cut work OK? ie using a 50A on his 30/100A meter box.

It will indeed work, but he will be limited to 50A, 1/2 of his available supply.

As noted by Litlos, Safe-T-Cut do in fact make a 100A version.

Hi All,

Sorry I have been silent for a few days (or maybe it was a relief ). My excuse (well actually reason) was that I have just passed my PC of 5 years to my Step son and replaced it with a built for me based upon my purchased equipment Dogs B******* of a PC. Becuase the new is Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit and my old was my much loved Win XP it has taken a few days to add my important programs to a start from scratch PC.

Anyway I'm Baaack.

Crossy the question asked was exactly what I was going to ask. The Meter may be able to deal with 100A but I cannot beleive the soi supply would cope with one house drawing that Nor can I beleive I'd be anywhere near using 100A eithert now or in the future

Looking at our power consumption for the last 3½ years the most Units used in 1 month was 1141 (4/2010). The most units I have used in any single day was 48 units (2 days ago when I was on PC for 24 hours non stop and had airon on for many more hours than normal).

Even allowing for a large percentage increase 100A seem way way to high for the reality of need.

Do these figure suggest a realistic Safe-T-Cut Amp ability or is my logic trying to mix chalk with cheese?

Regards, Dave

[gdhm]

I just bought power strip. I wanted a 6 socket individually switched strip, but could only find a 5 socket surge protected job. Don't want or need the surge protector, but TIT.

Anyway, like the OP, mine has a red and green light. Currently only the red light shines brightly when plugged in, but on reading the instructions, they are so confusing ( made in China and obviously written by someone NOT fluent in English ) I have no idea as to whether the red light means there is or is not a good earth, or if it should be green only. The only thing I can be sure of is that if both red and green shine together it isn't safe to use the strip, though it doesn't say what to do in that event.

If it works just like My Toshino (probably alsop made in China) A single red lit LED means you Have a ground connection but your Live and Neutral are reversed. (I checked this out a few days ago to confirm this). My OLD Toshino came with packing telling me this, BUT my NEW Toshino packing makes NO mention of a what a Single lit Red LED means (VERY Helpful NOT!!!)

N and L reversed would not be surprising here in LOS as that could happen if your power sockets wiring are based on the Thai convention and your extension is based on (say) UK convention or similar) or vice versa.

I know for a fact many extension sockets say made in UK or similar and I very much doubt they think about where particular units go and whether the L and N needs to be reversed for those countries. Mind you, as so few Thai houses have ground wiring most do not care which way round L and N are. Judging by the ugly horrible (only) 3 pin plugs I have tracked down (Global) most do not use 3 pin plugs anyway, coz nobody would choose such ugly and fragile (where pins come out) plugs.

Regards, Dave

[thaibeachlovers]

I just bought power strip. I wanted a 6 socket individually switched strip, but could only find a 5 socket surge protected job. Don't want or need the surge protector, but TIT.

Anyway, like the OP, mine has a red and green light. Currently only the red light shines brightly when plugged in, but on reading the instructions, they are so confusing ( made in China and obviously written by someone NOT fluent in English ) I have no idea as to whether the red light means there is or is not a good earth, or if it should be green only. The only thing I can be sure of is that if both red and green shine together it isn't safe to use the strip, though it doesn't say what to do in that event.

If it works just like My Toshino (probably alsop made in China) A single red lit LED means you Have a ground connection but your Live and Neutral are reversed. (I checked this out a few days ago to confirm this). My OLD Toshino came with packing telling me this, BUT my NEW Toshino packing makes NO mention of a what a Single lit Red LED means (VERY Helpful NOT!!!)

N and L reversed would not be surprising here in LOS as that could happen if your power sockets wiring are based on the Thai convention and your extension is based on (say) UK convention or similar) or vice versa.

I know for a fact many extension sockets say made in UK or similar and I very much doubt they think about where particular units go and whether the L and N needs to be reversed for those countries. Mind you, as so few Thai houses have ground wiring most do not care which way round L and N are. Judging by the ugly horrible (only) 3 pin plugs I have tracked down (Global) most do not use 3 pin plugs anyway, coz nobody would choose such ugly and fragile (where pins come out) plugs.

Regards, Dave

<A single red lit LED means you Have a ground connection but your Live and Neutral are reversed>

Thanks for the suggestion, but not in this case. The strip is plugged into the wiring I did myself, so I know those plugs are wired correctly. The strip is not a Toshino ( can't remember what it is though ), but given that it's from China, who knows if it's wired correctly or not.

Anyway, as said above, it's only for a strip, surge protector not necessary, so as it's working, I won't try investigating inside.