Differences In Regions

[girlx]

Generalisations do happen but I'm not going to sit here & let stupid ones slide.

Boo I am sorry you found my opinions stupid, but like I said I have found them to be valid in my many years of experience here. Have you spent much time going around Thailand? You haven't given me any credible refutation to anything I said except to maybe say that southerners were not in fact hard workers in your experience. That is valid as well, and thanks for sharing it... next time I look around here, I will see if it is indeed the northerners doing all the work while the southerners kick back and watch, but being as there are few to no northerners in my area and there is still a lot of work getting done, I will accept that yours might be just as much of a generalization as mine, and so should you. Get more specific if that is what concerns you- but don't hijack this post with an argument, I have no reason to want to argue with you. Want to debate- ok! there are two sides to every debate, and as nothing can ever be proven or disproven then who is to say you are right and I am wrong or vice versa? I am not stupid, I am not subtly trying to attack thai people.... I am simply trying to have an analytical discussion. If you disagree that there are differences in people from the different regions, up to you! No one is forcing you to read this thread, and no one is asking you to monitor it for generalizations that displease you either.

[girlx]

by the way i was earlier today in a group of thais made up of one isaan guy, one guy from bangkok, and one from nakorn sri thammarat. they all said pretty much the same things i said- but they went a step further. they said isaan people are very manipulative and more focused on trying to get your money out of you than other thais. i would disagree that they are more greedy overall, but perhaps they are driven by need. they also said southern thais have a reputation for having no heart, and will be more likely to resort to violence or kill to get what they want. i haven't seen direct evidence of this myself but i hear it pretty often here and find the generalization interesting. the bangkok guy said bangkok people are superficial, and it takes a lot of material posessions to impress them. i did notice this as well in bangkok, but the same could be said for every city.

i found their opinions very revealing (and was surprised at how scathing they can be). maybe you don't. up to you.

Edited December 15, 2005 by girlx

[Boo]

I was replying to sevilles posts to me, not to any of yours. but ok;

Where do I say your opinion is stupid? I said the generalisation is stupid & it is IMO. My post quite clearly said that this example of southerners work ethic was limited to Samui but unlike you, don't claim it to be law, I just pointed out that there are two sides that people will see & thats why I didn'ty agree with your first post. If you can't handle people disagreeing with you then don't post in such a such one sided manner.

Several others have also disagreed with you. I never once said that differences don't exist but find your examples to be too broad to have any validity.

[tom yum goong]

to everyone who has jumped down girlx's throat -

if you can't talk in general terms and only restrict yourself to specifics and individuals, then you can't really talk about very much at all.

of course you can't pigeonhole people, thats the nature of people. everyone is different. but as someone mentioned earlier, each region has its own history, culture, dialects, economy, climate and environment, among many other factors, which will all have an impact on the nature of the people who live there.

i think the generalisations made by girlx do hold a lot of truth and i'm not surprised she has spoken to Thai people who also agree with those.

[Boo]

The differences I see are mainily about food & customs & weather.

In my husbands region for example, the people are very into voodoo & there are lots of ritualistic things going on all the time in the mother in laws house. I never saw or knew anyone on samui or bangkok into it & the friends from the south who have visitied found it really funny.

One of the hardest things for me moving from south to issan was the differnce in food, I had been spoiled with seafood (which I love) & in issan it doesn't seem to be a staple, but lots of horrible meat dishes are & I find anything bar very plain chicken or moo glob hard to stomach.

[girlx]

no links to other boards pls as per forum rules.

-oops, another board had better responses

Edited December 15, 2005 by girlx

[girlx]

yeah there are a lot of boney gristly meat dishes in isaan, but the flavors are delicious. i made (make) my boyfriend (friend) use boneless meat now, problem solved. maybe if i had had a southern boyfriend i would like southern food better. nah- don't like curry.

the superstition is much bigger in the north. said friend and his friends wear lingams tied around their wastes for fertility, pray to rahu (a demon who thrives on alcohol apparently) before drinking. consult fortune tellers at every turn (my friend changed his name because his previous name was bad luck, and he dyed his hair orange once because the monk told him black was going to oppress him). they seem to be more devout buddhists but (at least the ones i know) didn't do it so much for the teachings as the traditions and festivals.

[tom yum goong]

The differences I see are mainily about food & customs & weather.

In my husbands region for example, the people are very into voodoo & there are lots of ritualistic things going on all the time in the mother in laws house.  I never saw or knew anyone on samui or bangkok into it & the friends from the south who have visitied found it really funny.

One of the hardest things for me moving from south to issan was the differnce in food, I had been spoiled with seafood (which I love) & in issan it doesn't seem to be a staple, but lots of horrible meat dishes are & I find anything bar very plain chicken or moo glob hard to stomach.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

strange that, because southern Thai people are famous for their practice of magic (not Paul Daniels stuff, the other kind ).

one of the things my mother (who's from the south) told me when i was moving down to Phuket was to be careful as southern people like to "len khong", which basically means to use magic. I've heard this before and since from other people.

There was also a fairly big Thai film last year, "the Necromancer", which is all about that sort of thing and it was set in the south (Surat if i'm not mistaken).

Coincidentally, Isaan people are famous throughout Thailand for eating the weirdest things. Insects and such as i'm sure you've now come across.

personally i've found that there are Thais from all over that like to eat things which i wouldn't normally consider food. monitor lizards eggs, and all that "jungle food" but each to their own.

[Boo]

thats really interesting TYG about the magic. As I said, I never saw it myself but maybe, like the MIL & her cronies, they do it behind closed doors?

[sbk]

Can't say as I have ever seen that sort of thing here either. It probably comes from way back if at all. In fact, all the black magic that gets publicised in the newpapers that I have seen has come out of Central Thailand and Issan.

Girlx, if you are basing your observations on Southerners solely on Koh Phangan people then you are making an error. Islanders are another breed apart entirely. And the mafia thing is certainly prevalent in TNP but not anywhere else on the island.

I've posted it somewhere else but there are two kinds of people on the islands (Samui, Phangan and Tao). Either you are from here or you are not from here. Doesn't matter farang or Thai, you are not from here. As a farang girl with an ex-Isaan boyfriend you will not have been let into the local culture.

My husband is from here and, after 17 years, I am an accepted part of the local scene. But I attend nearly every funeral and wedding of the entire extended family, attend all important ceremonies of immediate family (which, here includes your aunts,uncles and first cousins) and important Buddhist holidays at the Wat. Not so much in the past few years as my time is more limited now but in the first 12 years or so I was a regular, known fixture. And I am still referred to as my husband's farang wife. And I consider myself accepted.

When I was in Koh Samui last month my taxi driver was a "Chao Mui" (native Samui person) who treated me as an equal once he realized that 1) I speak fluent southern Island Thai --not the same as the mainland 2) my husband was a native Koh Phangan person and 3) we had relatives in common (his wife and my husband).

Island life and Island culture are another breed entirely from the mainland and TNP is again different from other parts of the island.

[girlx]

yeah SBK i realize the islands are different... i have been to most of the larger islands on both coasts though and i see traces of mafia presence everywhere. there is a lot on had rin also, don't you think? i don't consider most of the island people to be the same as southerners from chumpon or pattalung or nakorn sri thammarat for instance... but many of the people here are from those places (not locals- especially in TNP) so i can deduce a little. you are right, the people here are not so accepting, unless you constantly ingratiate yourself towards them like my ex, who has managed to worm his way in a bit. he's not typical isaan though... he left his village to travel around at age 14 and play music with the zu zu band, so he has had a lot of exposure to different parts of thailand and can even speak southern... but nowhere in thailand do i think they accept farangs, even those here long term. at best i think you would be seen as a shadow of the thai person you are with.

as for necromancy in the south, i have never heard anything of this?! maybe it applies farther south where i have not yet been. people here wear amulets but that is the extent of it as far as i have seen. would be interested to learn more though.

[seville]

Boo,

I did as you asked and re-read your post I also said,

Maybe you gals didn't mean to come off as mean or judgemental, but sure came off that way to me.

Try & read my posts properly. Generalisations do happen but I'm not going to sit here & let stupid ones slide.

Right here you are saying someone's observations are Stupid. I enjoy reading peoples posts on here and your posts tend to be more interesting and informative then a lot of folks. I simply commended GirlX for bringing up a topic that I thought was interesting and was hoping that maybe people would be a little nicer with their comments.

[Boo]

It was already explained & I stand by my post, the generalisation was stupid not her or her opinion but the generalisation used. I asked you to read all my posts as you will see that they were all reasonable questions or points as to why I disagreed but it's easy to read what you want. Whatever. Next time some mysoganist posts with the all "American women are....(add insulting generalisation here)". I'll let it stay?

It's exactly the same thing IMO, I don't let it through about western & thai women in this section so why is it easy game for the whole nation of thai people?

[seville]

(not locals- especially in TNP

Here's an example of what Boo was talking about. Most of the Big Bosses on TNP are local Thai people and the people working 10 hours a day are from other areas.

The guys you see working a few hours a day here and there, the ones playing cards all day, the guys who are raising fighting cocks etc. are the locals from KPN.

Then there is a hand full of older men in their 60's that you see bouncing back and fourth between Noi and Yai and they are the ones really calling the shots.

My ex. is from one of the BIG KPN families. Because of that fact, he gets away with everything. It took me a very long time to understand why all the Thai people let him run around like he is a prince, then I realized that on KPN he is a prince.

His family is one of the original families who settled the island. The old saying, "it's who you know, not what you know," is for sure applied on KPN. When ever I would walk up to get a Taxi, the guys who knew who I was would let the other drivers know. I always thought it was strange, but then I realized they were warning them not to mess with me in case it got back to my boyfriend.

Hey SBK, what are locals from KPN called? You said the locals from Samui are Chao Mui.

[seville]

Boo, let me just say that I value you and your experiences. I personnally do not see how one can seperate a generalisation used by a person and their opinion.

You have stated that you can, I respect that. I wasn't trying to read anything into what you said. I had a reaction to how you worded what you said and made the choice to make you and Seonoi aware that, "to me," things came across a certain way and it would seem that I'm not the only one who got the same kind of reaction.

By you putting, "whatever," at the end of your sentence in your last post, puts across a hostile tone. By making the choice of using the word stupid does the same thing.

Next time some mysoganist posts with the all "American women are....(add insulting generalisation here)". I'll let it stay?

That's up to you. I often find myself wanting address these types of comments, but then think to myself, "What's the point."

I chose to post what I did, because I wanted to give GirlX some validation and to just bring to your attention that I had a reaction to your comments. Because I do, find you to be a good poster and do value your opinions, I thought I would bring it up.

It's exactly the same thing IMO, I don't let it through about western & thai women in this section so why is it easy game for the whole nation of thai people?

I don't really follow what your saying here.

Yours in understanding,

Seville

[girlx]

Next time some mysoganist posts with the all "American women are....(add insulting generalisation here)". I'll let it stay?

It's exactly the same thing IMO, I don't let it through about western & thai women in this section so why is it easy game for the whole nation of thai people?

If you look in my very first post you will see that from the beginning I said I realize anything posted would be a generalization. Therefore, nothing even similar to an observation about the "whole nation of thai people" ever came from my fingertips.

Would you say "American women in general are more independent and less traditional than their Eastern counterparts?"- I would... there is nothing insulting in a generalization of this type. It is simply a social commentary.

Boo you certainly seem to want to defend Thai people, especially Thai men, and that is admirable, but I think it's misplaced here. It is also naive of you to think you can not summarize the differences in people from specific areas: take your own country... you can say people from Manchester tend to have these qualities, people from London tend to have these, can you not? Of course when you meet someone from that area you should be open minded enough to accept that they might not fit that generalization, and I have not said otherwise.

And considering you are not even in Thailand and have not yet mentioned whether you have been around Thailand before enough to have any valid opinions beyond the one you expressed, I don't really see why you took it upon yourself to say anything at all in this conversation.

[Boo]

girlx, as the moderator & a general poster of this forum I take it upon myself to speak up when I disagree, if you can't accept then don't start topics as anyone is entitled to post their opinion, not just you.

I have never been classed as naive before so thanks for that, but if by defending thai people on a thai forum makes me niave then I would rather be considered that than bitter & negative about the country & her people. And no, my sentiments are not misplaced.

Not once have I denied that differences exist or that generlisations have to be made, I have even tried to keep your topic going with what I thought differences there was. But I don't have to read what I think is unfair generalisations without commenting.

As for this:

And considering you are not even in Thailand and have not yet mentioned whether you have been around Thailand before enough to have any valid opinions beyond the one you expressed, I don't really see why you took it upon yourself to say anything at all in this conversation.

How arrogant. What are you, the net police? I'll comment on anything I please. I lived on samui for 7 years if you must know & with my husband for 4 years, 2 of which in the UK, is that long enough for you to deem my opinion valid? Your hardly an expert with a couple of years under your belt living on islands but I make it clear that my comments are based on my own limited experience & not what I consider fact.

I really can't be bothered to coment on this anymore so either carry on with the topic & accept that not everyone holds your views or it can be closed, you chose.

[phuketsiam]

People in the North of England have less money and are friendlier than people from the South, thats my observation based on 30 years or so in England

[girlx]

What are you, the net police?

no, that would be you apparently... go ahead and close the topic, you have already trashed it.

just want to point out again that i asked this question on other boards and got diplomatic, thoughtful, and cheerful responses, that never degraded into insults of any kind. something wrong with people here. i will skip the ladies' board if i want an interesting discussion from now on, that's for sure.

[bkkmadness]

girlx, as the moderator & a general poster of this forum I take it upon myself to speak up when I disagree, if you can't accept then don't start topics as anyone is entitled to post their opinion, not just you.

I don't see the need to throw in the fact your a moderator Boo, you can voice your opinion as a poster only on this subject unless Girlx is breaking forum rules.

She has said shes ready to listen to other peoples opinions and willing to be taught about it. An open mind I think that wants a discussion that others here have taken up.

I really can't be bothered to coment on this anymore so either carry on with the topic & accept that not everyone holds your views or it can be closed, you chose.

Closure of the topic is only an option if she breaks forum rules. If you cannot be bothered to comment on this topic anymore then don't, it's simple really.

[kat]

If you leave I'll miss you girlx. Honest discussions about Thailand are something that is increasingly seen as a social taboo around here. And yet, there is a lot going on here in Thailand concerning gender dynamics that is much different than the West. One only needs to look around and pay a bit of attention, but if that is not enough, there is plenty of documentation of the fact if one cared to verify it. And no, it is NOT the same as everywhere.

Here's the thing: I'm sure there are plenty of great relationships and marriages around here, but they most certainly cannot be easy or without effort, because even casual friendships take a lot of effort. If they work out for some, then that's great, but is it so hard to believe that there are many who have different experiences, or maybe see or confront things that others choose to overlook?

Please don't trash those who are trying to make sense of their experiences here, either through comparisons or open discussion, because if it cannot be done here then this board is completely useless.

Oh yeah -and the big difference between Issan and everywhere else: they eat sticky rice and everyone else eats regular rice; that's it. We can all go back to discussing contraceptions and waxing now.

[sbk]

I can't comment on differences between regions because I have only ever lived here. I have met Isaan people, and Central people but I think, until you have lived somewhere for a long period of time, you can never really understand them. Esp here in Thailand where they are really so very different from us. What girlx has seen in Koh P has been very very surface as that is all she will be allowed to see. I suspect, that is what we will all see in the various places we live until we have lived there long enough to be truly accepted.

And Girlx, just because your ex has ingratiated himself with the locals doesn't mean he is really accepted because frankly, he is not from here.

[TRIPxCORE]

Sorry I just caught onto this thread now. The discussion seems to be getting a little heated and its so unnecessary.

Girlx, I understand what you were trying to do by starting this thread.

Some things may not have been conveyed definitively enough for some to understand. I believe what GirlX was doing was asking what other peoples opinions were based on their experiences in Thailand. She then proceeded to tell us all what her experiences were in different parts of the country. She made it clear that every persons opinion would be subjective. She was just asking what everybody else felt, what they saw. Never once did she say that her opinion was based on fact. She knew there would be generalizations because that happens when people express their opinion. No reason to jump down her throat for expressing what she has seen. If you have seen different things throughout Thailand then tell us all. It's supposed to be a happy discussion of peoples experiences, thats all.

In my experience in Thailand, I have seen the following:

For Bangkok, most of the people seem less affable unless you actually start to get to know them a bit. Problem with discussing Bangkok is that the people that inhabit BKK come from all over Thailand. North, South, East and West. Its kind of hard to distinguish who is actually from BKK.

In Issan, to me the people seem more friendly and down to earth. They are more quick to smile and have a innocence about them I find refreshing. I thought a good example was brought up by Girlx when she said BKK people care more about politics and the news. My wife is from Issan but I met her in BKK and she had lived there already for a while. When we are in BKK together, she reads the newspaper and wants to see whats happening. When we visit her family in Issan, she never reads the newspaper and doesn't seem to care. Its like she adapts herself to her surroundings. I thought that was funny you mentioned it.

I have only ever been to BKK and Issan before and never down South so I can only compare between those places.

[Boo]

Bkkmadness I was asked several times by girlx why I was bothering to read/post on this topic . As a moderator I have to read every post but have only responded in this thread as a poster. I asked if she wanted it closed as people like yourself were taking it off topic by referring back to the disagreement of opinion instead of keeping it on topic by posting your own observations of differences (which I have done several times now). Tripxcore, I don't beleive that anyone misunderstood what girlx was trying to say with this topic but people are entitled to disagree.

If anyome else feels like butting in then pls do it via pm, as even though girlx has (wrongly) accused me of trashing her topic (really! ), if no one had addressed me directly then I wouldn't have replied would I?

[seville]

Hey GirlX,

Where else did you post this topic. I'd like to see what others had to say.

I find it a really good topic. Especially for someone who is an outsider and knows that they will never really be accepted or treated the same as a local.

Did you get more responses from Thai people in other places?

[girlx]

And Girlx, just because your ex has ingratiated himself with the locals doesn't mean he is really accepted because frankly, he is not from here.

i see what you are saying, except that most of the people here are not from here. there is a core set of locals, and you are correct, they are not especially accepting, but there are plenty of people here from various parts of the south who are not locals (though they may have been here for 7 years or so), and he has managed to make friends with them. that said, i don't know too many people ANYWHERE in thailand who have particularly close friends. at least not close in the way that we from the west would define it. the exception would be in isaan.

seville i am not allowed to post the links to other boards here .

thanks for understanding tripXcore.

Honest discussions about Thailand are something that is increasingly seen as a social taboo around here. And yet, there is a lot going on here in Thailand concerning gender dynamics that is much different than the West. One only needs to look around and pay a bit of attention, but if that is not enough, there is plenty of documentation of the fact if one cared to verify it. And no, it is NOT the same as everywhere.

thanks kat i had these same thoughts when i posted one time here about cultural differences in relationships and was assured that they did not come into play at all and that people are the same everywhere. to be honest, i am not sure how some marriages are surviving if there is no exploration of these things.

[sbk]

that said, i don't know too many people ANYWHERE in thailand who have particularly close friends. at least not close in the way that we from the west would define it. the exception would be in isaan.

I have no experience outside of here but my experience has been that even the locals have very few close friends. They make their intimate friends at a very young age and hold tight to their loyalties to those friends. I think they find our easy and casual friendships confusing and superficial whereas we find them unapproachable.

I think the point I was trying to make was that altho you can observe what you perceive to be the differences between regions these personality traits are only the superficial characteristics that you are being allowed to see as a non-friend, non-local and non-Thai. I don't know but suspect this is true all over Thailand.

to be honest, i am not sure how some marriages are surviving if there is no exploration of these things.

And my husband and I survive just fine, thank you very much.

One thing I have learned living in a long-term intimate relationship is that talking everything to death doesn't always solve the problem, sometimes you just have to accept the person the way they are and get on with life. In the long run cultural differences have not really come to play in our relationship, mainly in the beginning, in the learning stage of who each person is. But, after 16 years of marriage it isn't about the culture but about the individuals.

[Boo]

exactly my thoughts too sbk

[girlx]

I think the point I was trying to make was that altho you can observe what you perceive to be the differences between regions these personality traits are only the superficial characteristics that you are being allowed to see as a non-friend, non-local and non-Thai.

of course... i agree with this... but that should not stop us from exploring those differences and trying to learn or dig deeper.

sometimes you just have to accept the person the way they are and get on with life.

i agree with this as well... however my point is that you may not be able to accept who they are until you have some understanding of it. after 16 years of marriage i doubt you have any worries about this, but i am sure in the first years you had to do a lot of juggling of your ideals versus eastern ideals until you found a point of compromise that worked for you.

[Tyree D.]

I'll contribute to this thread instead of bashing the OP. I have been with ladies in every region.

I like the northern women for their pretty smiles and their curvy stereotraditional hips. When they are aroused they make a peculiar sound. In the north you also got the hilltribe girls which aren't considered Thai. We feel a bond because we are both minorities.

I like the Issan girls for that Tera Patrick 10 years ago look. They got that nice hair and a caramel complexion. They are so exotic. I love their accents with that Kmer-vibe. They like to be on top.

The girls in the central are thick and big, making up for the Black women I've never had. They also walk a certain way. They act like, "I am sexy and I know it".

The south girls look muslim to Indian but they don't have that no-sex-before-marriage complex like them. They seem so free.

In conclusion, I love the Thai ladies of every region. I prefer the north because they seem the most humble and appreciate the fact I can speak Thai as opposed to, "He's not a stupid tourist."