The Folly Of Trying To Help A Local Girl

[robblok]

^I think that that's reflecting the kind of people you are spending your time with, more than anything else. I have some going-out-to-party friends in a group where I'm more of a giver than a taker, for sure- but as you say it's with my eyes wide open and clear boundaries set- but I also have Thai friends who buy ME things, take ME to dinner, and lend ME money when I need it, too. Perhaps you need more middle-class friends.

100% agree depends on the people you hang out with. I see Thai people here bring stuff to each other not expecting something back all the time. Last time got a bunch of fish oil capsules and i know that the lady who owns a restaurant in this village needed some (they are expensive here). So i gave here a load, she always gives me free food (special dishes) or help me or my gf when needed.

I really think its really depends on the circles you hang out in. The wife here has good friends, i have a few too. No problems of it being a one way street. I would not date a girl or something like that who sees me as a meal ticket. There are enough girls who dont.

[MediumPaceBowler]

Set in the ancient kingdom of Siam, this is an evocative story of romance, passion, betrayal and heartbreak.

Mills & Boon Book Reviews

An article aimed primarily at CEOs which emphasizes the need for adequate wealth protection strategies whilst working in Thailand.

The Financial Times

A vicious article which perpetuates the myth that working class Thai women are either dishonest or prostitutes.

The Socialist Worker

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Warren Buffet

[F1fanatic]

I gave up going for a massage as I was sick and tired of every masseur telling me how her husband had been killed in a road accident.

Same thing with manicures etc. in the small 'beauty' places.

This story though, makes me realise I am lucky being female! At least they know they are going to get nothing more than a large tip.

It only worked the first time...

[BookMan]

long con, short con. Its just a con.

Golden rule remains, don't spend anything you are not prepared to write off.

people here have different values in relation to things and personal relationships. It is very clear that they favor the former over the latter. If you are happy to empty your wallet to maintain a "relationship" you'll be happy here. If you are looking for some kind of reciprocity in a relationship, you will be disappointed.

Thailand for beginners 1:01

The love of money is the root of all evil.

Anyone argue with that?

Agreed. A con is a con

Agreed. Don't spend anything you are not prepared to write off

Disagree. Reciprocity in a relationship with a Thai. You don't need to look hard to find some. If you cant find any you need to look at the types of relationships you have.

Disagree .I think there is a number of root of all evils. The liking of power is a strong root of evil.

[IanForbes]

Welcome to the Grapevine of Greed, the School of Suckerology.

These girls are not born greedy, the closer to tourists they get the easier it is for the grapevine to get a grip of them.

You are the crop, the wise girl cherry picks todays fruit, the greedy girl uses a scythe.

All the while there are snakes hanging off the grapevine whispering poisonous lessons.

Think of it like one big Nigerian scam, but Nigerian scammers dream

of the success rate.

This post looks cynical, but the real cynics are the snakes hanging off the grapevine. It's breathtaking how they perceive you, you are a wallet, an ATM to be emptied, and the trick is is to hit you at your most vulnerable and defenceless. That being for most people when they are on holiday. Every tourist spot in the world has scammers operating. From Las Vegas to the Pyramids, Bangkok to Blackpool, the crop is being picked every day.

This corruptive grapevine is on a separate dynamic from normal Thai family needs/ wants / desires. It is a different animal.

Recognize it for what it is, it's an industry, the crop is you, the technique is the sob story, and the fertilizer is your good heart.

Personally, the one I hate most in Thailand is the flower selling kids scam. After midmight, 4 year old kids, a flower, and every farang woman falls for it, guaranteeing that child a lifetime of neglect as they will never see the inside of a school. They are now children of the night.

This industry will never change, there will always be a new crop of good hearted people, there will always be snakes hanging off the grapevine, and there will always be girls being taught the rules.

What can change though is your understanding of what is going on, so in future the OP's friend should just get the massage, give a tip and get out......as simple as that.

For a blethering kind of guy that's not a bad analogy. You can add many marriages into the mix as well. When I was young and single I heard many of the pretty soriety girls say they were going to marry some wealthy guy for his money. They didn't care if he was good looking or nice so long as he was wealthy. They wisely believed their looks would get them what they wanted... and most often did. Whether or not they were happy afterwards I have no way of knowing. I didn't travel in those circles until much later in life.

The wise girls know they have a limited time to make their wealth. Once their beauty starts to fade and they grow older than 40 it's an entirely different story. It doesn't matter what country they come from.

And, I know at least 5 guys who have married former bar girls, and their marriages are doing quite well after 4 or 5 years. Nobody knows the future and we can only make generalized guesses. If you get 5 happy years out of a marriage or relationship, and haven't sunk yourself financially, then you are doing okay.

[F1fanatic]

Welcome to the Grapevine of Greed, the School of Suckerology.

These girls are not born greedy, the closer to tourists they get the easier it is for the grapevine to get a grip of them.

You are the crop, the wise girl cherry picks todays fruit, the greedy girl uses a scythe.

All the while there are snakes hanging off the grapevine whispering poisonous lessons.

Think of it like one big Nigerian scam, but Nigerian scammers dream

of the success rate.

This post looks cynical, but the real cynics are the snakes hanging off the grapevine. It's breathtaking how they perceive you, you are a wallet, an ATM to be emptied, and the trick is is to hit you at your most vulnerable and defenceless. That being for most people when they are on holiday. Every tourist spot in the world has scammers operating. From Las Vegas to the Pyramids, Bangkok to Blackpool, the crop is being picked every day.

This corruptive grapevine is on a separate dynamic from normal Thai family needs/ wants / desires. It is a different animal.

Recognize it for what it is, it's an industry, the crop is you, the technique is the sob story, and the fertilizer is your good heart.

Personally, the one I hate most in Thailand is the flower selling kids scam. After midmight, 4 year old kids, a flower, and every farang woman falls for it, guaranteeing that child a lifetime of neglect as they will never see the inside of a school. They are now children of the night.

This industry will never change, there will always be a new crop of good hearted people, there will always be snakes hanging off the grapevine, and there will always be girls being taught the rules.

What can change though is your understanding of what is going on, so in future the OP's friend should just get the massage, give a tip and get out......as simple as that.

For a blethering kind of guy that's not a bad analogy. You can add many marriages into the mix as well. When I was young and single I heard many of the pretty soriety girls say they were going to marry some wealthy guy for his money. They didn't care if he was good looking or nice so long as he was wealthy. They wisely believed their looks would get them what they wanted... and most often did. Whether or not they were happy afterwards I have no way of knowing. I didn't travel in those circles until much later in life.

The wise girls know they have a limited time to make their wealth. Once their beauty starts to fade and they grow older than 40 it's an entirely different story. It doesn't matter what country they come from.

And, I know at least 5 guys who have married former bar girls, and their marriages are doing quite well after 4 or 5 years. Nobody knows the future and we can only make generalized guesses. If you get 5 happy years out of a marriage or relationship, and haven't sunk yourself financially, then you are doing okay.

Thank God I socialised with different women than you!

Edit - I only met two women (in England) who were looking for money. Neither were beautiful and the rest of us avoided them like the plague.

Edited March 12, 2012 by F1fanatic

[theblether]

Welcome to the Grapevine of Greed, the School of Suckerology.

These girls are not born greedy, the closer to tourists they get the easier it is for the grapevine to get a grip of them.

You are the crop, the wise girl cherry picks todays fruit, the greedy girl uses a scythe.

All the while there are snakes hanging off the grapevine whispering poisonous lessons.

Think of it like one big Nigerian scam, but Nigerian scammers dream

of the success rate.

This post looks cynical, but the real cynics are the snakes hanging off the grapevine. It's breathtaking how they perceive you, you are a wallet, an ATM to be emptied, and the trick is is to hit you at your most vulnerable and defenceless. That being for most people when they are on holiday. Every tourist spot in the world has scammers operating. From Las Vegas to the Pyramids, Bangkok to Blackpool, the crop is being picked every day.

This corruptive grapevine is on a separate dynamic from normal Thai family needs/ wants / desires. It is a different animal.

Recognize it for what it is, it's an industry, the crop is you, the technique is the sob story, and the fertilizer is your good heart.

Personally, the one I hate most in Thailand is the flower selling kids scam. After midmight, 4 year old kids, a flower, and every farang woman falls for it, guaranteeing that child a lifetime of neglect as they will never see the inside of a school. They are now children of the night.

This industry will never change, there will always be a new crop of good hearted people, there will always be snakes hanging off the grapevine, and there will always be girls being taught the rules.

What can change though is your understanding of what is going on, so in future the OP's friend should just get the massage, give a tip and get out......as simple as that.

For a blethering kind of guy that's not a bad analogy. You can add many marriages into the mix as well. When I was young and single I heard many of the pretty soriety girls say they were going to marry some wealthy guy for his money. They didn't care if he was good looking or nice so long as he was wealthy. They wisely believed their looks would get them what they wanted... and most often did. Whether or not they were happy afterwards I have no way of knowing. I didn't travel in those circles until much later in life.

The wise girls know they have a limited time to make their wealth. Once their beauty starts to fade and they grow older than 40 it's an entirely different story. It doesn't matter what country they come from.

And, I know at least 5 guys who have married former bar girls, and their marriages are doing quite well after 4 or 5 years. Nobody knows the future and we can only make generalized guesses. If you get 5 happy years out of a marriage or relationship, and haven't sunk yourself financially, then you are doing okay.

Thanks very much, I take the attitude that if I blether enough every now and again I will say something halfway sensible. It's quite rare though.

The majority of TV members are well travelled, we have seen every type of scam in every country. Obviously not every Thai is a scammer, but the one's interacting with the tourists are more likely to be, they are more likely to have been snake bitten by the grapevine.

It is not Thai bashing, it is the nature of the tourist beast, every tourist hotspot in the world attracts scammers. Here in Thailand we have the infamous jetski ops, they attract the headlines, but their is a low level endemic use of scam techniques.

I note what f1 said, if my barber gave me a sob story in the UK he would get nowhere with me, so why would it be different in Thailand?

Here's why.....

Your guard is down....and more importantly you don't understand the stakes....the OP's friend gave that girl the best part of a months wages.....come on, get a grip on yourself man!! The way to beat a Thai scam is to think Thai....anybody with any knowledge of Thailand knows how breathtakingly rough and heartless Thais can be to each other.....they cannot believe it when we start handing over money....they think we are mugs.

We think we are being kind and considerate, and they think we are mugs, mugs. Mugs, MUgs, MUGs!!!

Its quite nasty really.

[villagefarang]

Welcome to the Grapevine of Greed, the School of Suckerology.

These girls are not born greedy, the closer to tourists they get the easier it is for the grapevine to get a grip of them.

You are the crop, the wise girl cherry picks todays fruit, the greedy girl uses a scythe.

All the while there are snakes hanging off the grapevine whispering poisonous lessons.

Think of it like one big Nigerian scam, but Nigerian scammers dream

of the success rate.

This post looks cynical, but the real cynics are the snakes hanging off the grapevine. It's breathtaking how they perceive you, you are a wallet, an ATM to be emptied, and the trick is is to hit you at your most vulnerable and defenceless. That being for most people when they are on holiday. Every tourist spot in the world has scammers operating. From Las Vegas to the Pyramids, Bangkok to Blackpool, the crop is being picked every day.

This corruptive grapevine is on a separate dynamic from normal Thai family needs/ wants / desires. It is a different animal.

Recognize it for what it is, it's an industry, the crop is you, the technique is the sob story, and the fertilizer is your good heart.

Personally, the one I hate most in Thailand is the flower selling kids scam. After midmight, 4 year old kids, a flower, and every farang woman falls for it, guaranteeing that child a lifetime of neglect as they will never see the inside of a school. They are now children of the night.

This industry will never change, there will always be a new crop of good hearted people, there will always be snakes hanging off the grapevine, and there will always be girls being taught the rules.

What can change though is your understanding of what is going on, so in future the OP's friend should just get the massage, give a tip and get out......as simple as that.

For a blethering kind of guy that's not a bad analogy. You can add many marriages into the mix as well. When I was young and single I heard many of the pretty soriety girls say they were going to marry some wealthy guy for his money. They didn't care if he was good looking or nice so long as he was wealthy. They wisely believed their looks would get them what they wanted... and most often did. Whether or not they were happy afterwards I have no way of knowing. I didn't travel in those circles until much later in life.

The wise girls know they have a limited time to make their wealth. Once their beauty starts to fade and they grow older than 40 it's an entirely different story. It doesn't matter what country they come from.

And, I know at least 5 guys who have married former bar girls, and their marriages are doing quite well after 4 or 5 years. Nobody knows the future and we can only make generalized guesses. If you get 5 happy years out of a marriage or relationship, and haven't sunk yourself financially, then you are doing okay.

Thanks very much, I take the attitude that if I blether enough every now and again I will say something halfway sensible. It's quite rare though.

The majority of TV members are well travelled, we have seen every type of scam in every country. Obviously not every Thai is a scammer, but the one's interacting with the tourists are more likely to be, they are more likely to have been snake bitten by the grapevine.

It is not Thai bashing, it is the nature of the tourist beast, every tourist hotspot in the world attracts scammers. Here in Thailand we have the infamous jetski ops, they attract the headlines, but their is a low level endemic use of scam techniques.

I note what f1 said, if my barber gave me a sob story in the UK he would get nowhere with me, so why would it be different in Thailand?

Here's why.....

Your guard is down....and more importantly you don't understand the stakes....the OP's friend gave that girl the best part of a months wages.....come on, get a grip on yourself man!! The way to beat a Thai scam is to think Thai....anybody with any knowledge of Thailand knows how breathtakingly rough and heartless Thais can be to each other.....they cannot believe it when we start handing over money....they think we are mugs.

We think we are being kind and considerate, and they think we are mugs, mugs. Mugs, MUgs, MUGs!!!

Its quite nasty really.

I just call them enablers.

[DP25]

You friend gave 5000 baht to a stranger because she said something was wrong with her blood, and he doesn't even know what or if it's even true or if she had used the free government medical care yet? He's a chump and she treated him like a chump, not sure what you could expect. Would you give $200 to the woman cutting your hair at home if she didn't look well one day?

[pattayadingo]

So now, through an act of kindness, he is not only out of pocket 5,000 baht, but he has lost a friend and is reluctant to return to his favourite massage place for fear of the other girls reactions!

Some friend.

No, she was friendly, not a friend. Friends help each other out in different ways. We do not rip each other off and deceive each other.

5K Baht is not really a lot of money to lose to learn a lesson here. If he and others remember lessons like these they will be less prone to losing houses aand their lives - they are hefty prices to pay!

Time to move on along the learning curve of Thai life

[MAJIC]

He has only lost the money,friends like that are no great loss.

[Loz]

Gents,

I should maybe point out that I don't have troubles like the friend of the original poster and I have some great thai friends who are not leeches. I have golfing friends, dining buddies, even some friends at work. I simple point out that the girl in the OP was a con artist. FACT. It is no reflection of who I hang out with. The only reasonable inference you could draw from my post was that I am not a very tolerant person. I accept that. Hence, adios.

[TexasRanger]

I just feel sorry for the next person who has a genuine problem and when someone in a position to help out remembers this story and says no. I have helped people out in the past, some have been very grateful, some not so much. Do my bad experiences make me think twice before believing a hard luck story? yep, sad but true.

[h90]

I gave up going for a massage as I was sick and tired of every masseur telling me how her husband had been killed in a road accident.

Same thing with manicures etc. in the small 'beauty' places.

This story though, makes me realise I am lucky being female! At least they know they are going to get nothing more than a large tip.

It only worked the first time...

rofl.....but at least you save the part of handsome man, you so handsome.....

I don't go massage and I try to avoid taxis because I am so tired of the brainless blabla

[transam]

You friend gave 5000 baht to a stranger because she said something was wrong with her blood, and he doesn't even know what or if it's even true or if she had used the free government medical care yet? He's a chump and she treated him like a chump, not sure what you could expect. Would you give $200 to the woman cutting your hair at home if she didn't look well one day?

Think your right, a leg over was on the horizon.

[Loz]

the girl probably found it hard to explain Thalassemia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalassemia http://www.thalassemia.or.th/

[Wallaby]

OP, I hope your friend made sure the other girls in the massage parlour know that he won't return because of her. Maybe they won't be happy to lose his custom. You never know.

Is there a massage place next door to go to? Maybe it would be nice for them to see you go there instead of their business.

[silsburyhill]

It's a bit of a sad story, but very little was really lost. Some people learn from their mistakes and others don't, and I'm not talking about the guy doing the charity. I've helped lots of local girls and expected nothing in return. Some used the money wisely and others were stupid and burnt their bridges. But, somewhere down the chain a person in need benefited from the help.

It's a bit of a sad story, but very little was really lost. Some people learn from their mistakes and others don't, and I'm not talking about the guy doing the charity. I've helped lots of local girls and expected nothing in return. Some used the money wisely and others were stupid and burnt their bridges. But, somewhere down the chain a person in need benefited from the help.

But doesn't it strike you as odd that the overwhelming majority of the beneficiaries of these men's largess (for they are predominantly white males), are 'local' girls ?

[silsburyhill]

Give 5000 to each girl and they will be fine !

Give 5000 to each girl and they will be fine !

And that's how it starts. They will think (rightly) you're just another soft touch and keep coming back for more. Word will be spread and you'll have to relocate in order to not be bled dry. Some never learn.

[BookMan]

Thank God I socialised with different women than you!

Edit - I only met two women (in England) who were looking for money. Neither were beautiful and the rest of us avoided them like the plague.

Yes, but did the men avoid them like the plague?!

[Theoutsider]

Wow you pay to get your foot Massage a few time then you start calling the person a friend.

I would not use the word friend so loosely.

Would he of done this if it was a man?

[Tonto21]

I just feel sorry for the next person who has a genuine problem and when someone in a position to help out remembers this story and says no. I have helped people out in the past, some have been very grateful, some not so much. Do my bad experiences make me think twice before believing a hard luck story? yep, sad but true.

How very true. This is my experience and how I want to deal with people abusing….what I see as being helpful and compassionate.

After helping out and having giving a little cash, we, I think as westerners feel good about ourselves, (It’s not all one sided, we get something out of it) only to feel like a fool for getting involved……..And end up vowing to never help again. Well for most I think that goes against the grain. You helped once…….Who are we kidding, you’ll do it again.

East and west……It just don't gel very well, it takes a bit of time living in amongst Thai to get a small insight to how the Thais think, and then just as you think your fingers on the pulse…………

If you want a quick insight into the Thai mind as far as attitude towards other people, just get in a car and drive; rarely do Thais give way, thank you for letting them though….Or give a flying rats ass about you. Have you ever seen an ambulance trying to get though traffic? Thai’s actions are in the main not about taking the piss, it’s more about we, as westerner expect Thais to………Be us, and understand our values and do things our way.

So who’s wrong in this? The girl or your friend……..Nether, just two different whys of doing things. Did This girl ask for money from your friend? No, not until he started the first move.

Something I find strange with western, people, (farang) seem to be more willing to help friends, even strangers than their own family, IMO not the Thais….Family first……Ever time. I think this is why so many westerner go wrong, (me too) we are two quick to ride in on that white house.

Edited March 12, 2012 by metisdead
Use the default forum font when posting!!!!

[Theoutsider]

Why don't you just give you money to a homeless person with no legs or that crazy white man looking for his next fix of samsong, that guy looked scary. Not that I would but the misses does even when in the UK.

[richard_smith237]

Some people are simply far better natured and less cynical when they first arrive.

Some are lucky enough to maintain their good nature while developing a healthy sense of cynicism.

In a very similar tale I have a friend who while working upcountry befriended a female laborer. They appeared to get along well and were nothing more than friends possibly as a result of professionalism on his part.

After a month or so of ‘getting along well’ and becoming quite good friends my friend observed that she was using a really old cell phone, her salary was not such that she could readily afford the phone she most coveted.

My friends was in the position to offer incentives to the work force i.e. tokens of various types, phone cards etc to reward those who work hard and get on well – he issued these out on weekly basis to those who’d earned them, male or female.

My friend decided to make a personal contribution and bought this girl a newer cell phone. She stuck her nose up at the gift and complained that it was not the cell phone she wanted, she took it, sold it and kept the money !!!

My friend was somewhat shocked at this level of disregard for his generosity. He did however, learn a lesson and now maintains a much higher level of cynicism while remaining good natured.

The saddest part of this tale for me is that when he told me the story I was not in the least part surprised.

I too have many Thai friends, none of whom want or expect anything from me other than friendship. They are similar to me in their socio-economic status.

It appears that these outstanding issues of ‘careless need and thankless greed’ occur when westerners are dealing with those on the lower rungs of societies socio-economic ladder and decide to play Robin hood / Night in Shining Armor. It is these poorer people who are often most in need of assistance that so readily shoot themselves in the foot.

[oldgent]

the big mistake is feeling sorry for them. i dont think thai girls have an ounce of gratitude in their entire body

show them any sort of weakness and your there for the taking

[KeyserSoze01]

Some people are simply far better natured and less cynical when they first arrive.

Some are lucky enough to maintain their good nature while developing a healthy sense of cynicism.

This thread is an abject lesson for the "Why so cynical" thread that is also running.

EDIT: typo

Edited March 12, 2012 by KeyserSoze01

[IanForbes]

It appears that these outstanding issues of ‘careless need and thankless greed’ occur when westerners are dealing with those on the lower rungs of societies socio-economic ladder and decide to play Robin hood / Night in Shining Armor. It is these poorer people who are often most in need of assistance that so readily shoot themselves in the foot

Ain't that the truth, Richard. But, it still doesn't stop me helping those with less than me. I can spot a con-game a mile away but I still enjoying playing the game. I'll even call them on it with a big smile on my face. I have a budget of about $4000 a year for charity and I usually stay within that amount. I would rather help people help themselves, but it's unfortunate that so many ruin it for themselves by either being ungrateful or greedy. At that point I just tell them that they ruined any chance of getting anymore help. There are always a few who need it more and truly ARE grateful. I know two Thai women who turned a little bit of financial help into a small fortune by Thai standards. One gal is now married and owns three shops and has hired 5 staff.

[pipo1000]

The OP's friend took a risk and it didn't work out. Doesn't mean he was stupid to try, though I think I would have waited until I knew someone a bit better- 2-3 years or more, and already have a phone number, for instance. I have offered help and/or gifts to people who were potentially 'friends' that i have met in service positions, and usually I do not regret it- though I'd have to say that a massage worker is probably a bit riskier than, say, a waiter or an office worker.

some of the waitresses in beer bars get more cock than the bargirls themselves ....i have seen them getting tapped every night of the week sometimes ,i think its that more guys think shes cute + innocent rather than the "slutty" girls dancing naked around a pole with their hips gtrating to the music

Its called marketing.

I have a friend who used to have a well running bar.He had the regular girls and the service girls who had a different colour name tag and were not for " rent".The service girls were his best earners.

[pipo1000]

Give them your finger, and they will take your arm.

[Thongkorn]

Some good Some bad, the same every where , you met a bad one , move on and learn.