The Folly Of Trying To Help A Local Girl

[villagefarang]

Now isn't that sweet...again!

A man helps someone (the keyword is HELPS) who he thinks is in need.

That would be called "empathy"!

Somehow the person who is on the recieving end is not so gratefull, but of course the fellow gets bashed for being so stupid and trying to help!

ThaiVisa at it's best!

I would rather help 10 times - being con'ed 9 times- if that ONE TIME, the help really gets to the right person.

You win some- you loose some.

But it shouldn't keep you from being a nice person or a good human being.

Some things seem stupid, but _imho_ nothing that is done with a good intention, can ever be bad in the end.

You're wrong.... No good deed goes unpunished is far more accurate.

Not sure who said this but it seems to fit here. Hell isn't merely paved with good intentions; it's walled, roofed and furnished with them.

[transam]

5000 bht is a lot of money,

No it isn't it. Some of us make that in a few minutes.

Of course l should have said ''for a Thai'' but for sure the ''I'm alright jack farang, loads of money member'' ALWAYS shows up here. Sadly.

[strollling]

50% of the population in all countries are women.

Incorrect.

[bermondburi]

I think it all depends who you are lending money to. Personally I would never lend money to anyone outside of my wife's family and then only to certain people who I know have jobs etc. My wife on the other hand is a bit of a soft touch and she lends to people I would never lend to. We both have a once bitten twice shy policy though and you do kind of go into things knowing that the money may not come back again , or more usual for me is that it comes back a lot later than promised. As someone said though it is part of our job in a Thai family to help others in that family within reason. It's no different from what I would do with my family in the UK.

Had a funny one last week. My SIL owed me 3000 baht that was supposed to be paid back a month ago. She tried contacting us last Wednesday about it but because it was Macha Bucha day and a holiday we were still in bed when she called. Anyway she bought us ten trucks of earth instead and put them behind our house upcountry and levelled it off. We had intended to do this at some point and I would probably have rather had the cash but it was actually a good deal as they normally go for about 7-800 a truck. I just liked the way that she didn't wait to ask. In her eyes she was paying us back bigtime and I suppose she was. Bit of a ramble that but someone might find that interesting.

[F1fanatic]

50% of the population in all countries are women.

Incorrect.

Sorry, you're right. I'd forgotten that it takes wars to cut back the male population.

Even so, a v large percentage of the population in Western countries are women.

[Sing_Sling]

Some might read this and say what a terrible girl. I read it and see a very naive punter who has learned little in his short stay in Thailand. No one to blame but himself.

What utter rubbish - and it shows what a humanitarian you are . . . 'learned little in bis short stay'? 'Naive'?

He wanted to help a sick person out - without any gain for himself - and she used him and then had the lack of intelligence to ask him fort more, essentially.

How had he 'learned little' and how do you know the length of his stay in Thailand?

How was he naive? Did he expect a return? She obviously was sick but decided to spend the money on a new shiny object . . .

So, you don't think she is the one who should be taken to task?

Will you use the usual excuses reserved f or Thais who cheat foreigners . . . they need the money . . . well, in this case obviously not.

[villagefarang]

I think it all depends who you are lending money to. Personally I would never lend money to anyone outside of my wife's family and then only to certain people who I know have jobs etc. My wife on the other hand is a bit of a soft touch and she lends to people I would never lend to. We both have a once bitten twice shy policy though and you do kind of go into things knowing that the money may not come back again , or more usual for me is that it comes back a lot later than promised. As someone said though it is part of our job in a Thai family to help others in that family within reason. It's no different from what I would do with my family in the UK.

Had a funny one last week. My SIL owed me 3000 baht that was supposed to be paid back a month ago. She tried contacting us last Wednesday about it but because it was Macha Bucha day and a holiday we were still in bed when she called. Anyway she bought us ten trucks of earth instead and put them behind our house upcountry and levelled it off. We had intended to do this at some point and I would probably have rather had the cash but it was actually a good deal as they normally go for about 7-800 a truck. I just liked the way that she didn't wait to ask. In her eyes she was paying us back bigtime and I suppose she was. Bit of a ramble that but someone might find that interesting.

Must be pretty big trucks. Our last 600 truck loads were 160 baht each and we over paid just a bit.

[transam]

I think it all depends who you are lending money to. Personally I would never lend money to anyone outside of my wife's family and then only to certain people who I know have jobs etc. My wife on the other hand is a bit of a soft touch and she lends to people I would never lend to. We both have a once bitten twice shy policy though and you do kind of go into things knowing that the money may not come back again , or more usual for me is that it comes back a lot later than promised. As someone said though it is part of our job in a Thai family to help others in that family within reason. It's no different from what I would do with my family in the UK.

Had a funny one last week. My SIL owed me 3000 baht that was supposed to be paid back a month ago. She tried contacting us last Wednesday about it but because it was Macha Bucha day and a holiday we were still in bed when she called. Anyway she bought us ten trucks of earth instead and put them behind our house upcountry and levelled it off. We had intended to do this at some point and I would probably have rather had the cash but it was actually a good deal as they normally go for about 7-800 a truck. I just liked the way that she didn't wait to ask. In her eyes she was paying us back bigtime and I suppose she was. Bit of a ramble that but someone might find that interesting.

Must be pretty big trucks. Our last 600 truck loads were 160 baht each and we over paid just a bit.

You had a very very very good deal. Where l am it's 800 bht a load.

[villagefarang]

Some might read this and say what a terrible girl. I read it and see a very naive punter who has learned little in his short stay in Thailand. No one to blame but himself.

What utter rubbish - and it shows what a humanitarian you are . . . 'learned little in bis short stay'? 'Naive'?

He wanted to help a sick person out - without any gain for himself - and she used him and then had the lack of intelligence to ask him fort more, essentially.

How had he 'learned little' and how do you know the length of his stay in Thailand?

How was he naive? Did he expect a return? She obviously was sick but decided to spend the money on a new shiny object . . .

So, you don't think she is the one who should be taken to task?

Will you use the usual excuses reserved f or Thais who cheat foreigners . . . they need the money . . . well, in this case obviously not.

If you stick you hand in the mouth of a crocodile, who fault is it when he takes your hand off? He should have known better than to be an enabler.

Hell isn't merely paved with good intentions; it's walled, roofed and furnished with them.

[villagefarang]

I think it all depends who you are lending money to. Personally I would never lend money to anyone outside of my wife's family and then only to certain people who I know have jobs etc. My wife on the other hand is a bit of a soft touch and she lends to people I would never lend to. We both have a once bitten twice shy policy though and you do kind of go into things knowing that the money may not come back again , or more usual for me is that it comes back a lot later than promised. As someone said though it is part of our job in a Thai family to help others in that family within reason. It's no different from what I would do with my family in the UK.

Had a funny one last week. My SIL owed me 3000 baht that was supposed to be paid back a month ago. She tried contacting us last Wednesday about it but because it was Macha Bucha day and a holiday we were still in bed when she called. Anyway she bought us ten trucks of earth instead and put them behind our house upcountry and levelled it off. We had intended to do this at some point and I would probably have rather had the cash but it was actually a good deal as they normally go for about 7-800 a truck. I just liked the way that she didn't wait to ask. In her eyes she was paying us back bigtime and I suppose she was. Bit of a ramble that but someone might find that interesting.

Must be pretty big trucks. Our last 600 truck loads were 160 baht each and we over paid just a bit.

You had a very very very good deal. Where l am it's 800 bht a load.

At that price we wouldn't have bothered. I guess we are lucky we live where we do.

[IanForbes]

Some might read this and say what a terrible girl. I read it and see a very naive punter who has learned little in his short stay in Thailand. No one to blame but himself.

Plus there's another angle to this. If this girl is really young and naive she will likely be swayed very very easily by the more experienced girls / women in this shop to do things like buy the phone, then plead for more.

Women who work in establishments like this are a nightmare for shop owners.

An example, the Thai wife of a farang acquaintance heard about a massage shop on Sukhumvit Road which was for sale (the business, not the actual premises which is rented).

The Thai wife was in love with the idea of 'owning her own business', but had no previous experience in managing or running a business and in fact she had never worked anywhere herself.

She eventually convinced her husband to buy the business.

Within about 60 days she resold the business. She was shocked in regard to:

- The dishonesty of the massage women

- Serious fighting amongst the staff, planting equipment in the handbags of women they didn't like then telling the boss

- The older ones borrowing (threatening and demanding) money from the younger ones who got more customers. Money never repaid

- Serious theft of towels, creams etc.

- Older women teaching nasty unscrupulous tricks to the younger naive girls

- Threats to the owner to destroy her business, and more.

She was lucky, she recovered most of the initial outlay.

I forgot all about that angle. Thanks for pointing it out. I've seen it happen myself. There is a WHOLE LOT more to managing a business than just putting up the funding. It happens in bars as well. There is often animosity amongst many staff who seem to get the short end of the stick. They don't seem to realize that they are in the wrong trade. Fat ugly girls don't get many customers. It's true the world over. They need to pick another career. There is a REASON why business owners hire a pretty receptionist at the desk. A good manager is worth his or her weight in gold to a business owner.

"Fat ugly girls don't get many customers" "There is a REASON why business owners hire a pretty receptionist at the desk" ??!

And then followed by "A good manager is worth his or her weight in gold to a business owner" ?!

50% of the population in all countries are women. You seriously think they are impressed by a "pretty receptionist"? Hate to disillusion you, but we far prefer a "good manager"....

As for - "As I've said many times, I don't CARE if women are trying to con me. I know that most, if not all of them are trying to support children and parents back home. The money that I give them will filter down to the child sitting at home with gramma." - It reminds me of the 'trickle down' theory in the West. It didn't work....

I'll stand behind what I said. A receptionist is a far different person than a manager. I was speaking in general for most businesses everywhere, not specifically Thailand. Attractive women working in the service industries get bigger tips than the homely ones. It may not be fair, but it's true. Waitresses, women working in massage parlours and bar staff all get more action if they are attractive. i see it every night I'm in a bar. The really pretty gals are beating the men off with a stick while the plain looking women sit on their bar stools alone.

But, I'm straying off the main subject and just answering your reply.

I STILL believe that a good portion of the money handed over to the gals in the trade does filter down to their families. If it didn't then Thailand' grandmothers would not be looking after the children of their daughters.

Now, how they spend it is a different topic entirely. I see a lot of silly decisions made by the working poor of Thailand. Or, the working poor of just about every country... except maybe Japan. Japanese people seem to be industrious by nature or design.

[Berkshire]

I was speaking in general for most businesses everywhere, not specifically Thailand. Attractive women working in the service industries get bigger tips than the homely ones. It may not be fair, but it's true. Waitresses, women working in massage parlours and bar staff all get more action if they are attractive. i see it every night I'm in a bar. The really pretty gals are beating the men off with a stick while the plain looking women sit on their bar stools alone.

I'm with you Ian. There's actually a study that confirms your theory: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2088021,00.html

An excerpt from the article:

[studies indicate that a good-looking man or woman can expect to earn an average of $230,000 more in a lifetime than a person who is plain or homely.]

[4evermaat]

Plus there's another angle to this. If this girl is really young and naive she will likely be swayed very very easily by the more experienced girls / women in this shop to do things like buy the phone, then plead for more.

Women who work in establishments like this are a nightmare for shop owners.

An example, the Thai wife of a farang acquaintance heard about a massage shop on Sukhumvit Road which was for sale (the business, not the actual premises which is rented).

The Thai wife was in love with the idea of 'owning her own business', but had no previous experience in managing or running a business and in fact she had never worked anywhere herself.

She eventually convinced her husband to buy the business.

Within about 60 days she resold the business. She was shocked in regard to:

- The dishonesty of the massage women

- Serious fighting amongst the staff, planting equipment in the handbags of women they didn't like then telling the boss

- The older ones borrowing (threatening and demanding) money from the younger ones who got more customers. Money never repaid

- Serious theft of towels, creams etc.

- Older women teaching nasty unscrupulous tricks to the younger naive girls

- Threats to the owner to destroy her business, and more.

She was lucky, she recovered most of the initial outlay.

I forgot all about that angle. Thanks for pointing it out. I've seen it happen myself. There is a WHOLE LOT more to managing a business than just putting up the funding. It happens in bars as well. There is often animosity amongst many staff who seem to get the short end of the stick. They don't seem to realize that they are in the wrong trade. Fat ugly girls don't get many customers. It's true the world over. They need to pick another career. There is a REASON why business owners hire a pretty receptionist at the desk. A good manager is worth his or her weight in gold to a business owner.

There are politics that go with any job. It's up to the worker if they want to participate. Although thais tend to be social, especially in the massage shop. Eating together and making constant chatter.

And yes, the funding alone is not enough. Even if the wife is familiar with the trade, being a boss is a bit different. You cant just walk away if you do not want to work anymore. Especially if you do not have cash reserves. But being the "foreigner financeer", you are the cash reserves. Hard to find workers, mainly because the good massage people want guarantee and/or "perfect" working conditions (steady flow of customers, not so stressful boss). There are so many shops, an experienced worker can just leave at the drop of a hat, and their reputation allows them to go to new shop. A newer, inexperienced worker also has a similar luxury of having many shops to choose from. Then, even with the "perfect" working conditions, what happens when a customer wants to take the lady away?

But that's another thread. In fact, quite a few threads recently about finding good workers, or even workers period.

.......

As for - "As I've said many times, I don't CARE if women are trying to con me. I know that most, if not all of them are trying to support children and parents back home. The money that I give them will filter down to the child sitting at home with gramma." - It reminds me of the 'trickle down' theory in the West. It didn't work....

I do agree with Ian, the 'trickle down' theory here does work. Westerners tend to be individualistic, and place value on material things whereas thais can also be materialistic, but place a premium on basic living stuff first.

[Wallaby]

I was speaking in general for most businesses everywhere, not specifically Thailand. Attractive women working in the service industries get bigger tips than the homely ones. It may not be fair, but it's true. Waitresses, women working in massage parlours and bar staff all get more action if they are attractive. i see it every night I'm in a bar. The really pretty gals are beating the men off with a stick while the plain looking women sit on their bar stools alone.

I'm with you Ian. There's actually a study that confirms your theory: http://www.time.com/...2088021,00.html

An excerpt from the article:

[studies indicate that a good-looking man or woman can expect to earn an average of $230,000 more in a lifetime than a person who is plain or homely.]

Human nature and logical I would have thought.

[DLock]

My wife loans money in her Village, but she does it properly and takes collateral - motorbikes, gold, TV's...

That worked for a while, but now I have 9 motorbikes and 17 TV's...the gold was easy to sell.

Never, ever, ever lend money to a Thai that you expect to get back without collateral....otherwise, it's a gift.

I'm sure there are some people that have lent money and got it back...but you are being set up for the big sting in the future.

Anyone need a TV or scoot?

[wana]

My wife loans money in her Village, but she does it properly and takes collateral - motorbikes, gold, TV's...

That worked for a while, but now I have 9 motorbikes and 17 TV's...the gold was easy to sell.

Never, ever, ever lend money to a Thai that you expect to get back without collateral....otherwise, it's a gift.

I'm sure there are some people that have lent money and got it back...but you are being set up for the big sting in the future.

Anyone need a TV or scoot?

are any of the motorbikes yamaha ? i know someone looking for a 135cc yamaha nouvo scooter

do you have the permission of the owners to sell ? or just detain the bikes until the obigations are fulfilled ?

[transam]

My wife loans money in her Village, but she does it properly and takes collateral - motorbikes, gold, TV's...

That worked for a while, but now I have 9 motorbikes and 17 TV's...the gold was easy to sell.

Never, ever, ever lend money to a Thai that you expect to get back without collateral....otherwise, it's a gift.

I'm sure there are some people that have lent money and got it back...but you are being set up for the big sting in the future.

Anyone need a TV or scoot?

If the BiB get a sniff about your wife's business ( your money), you could be out of here.

[StreetCowboy]

My wife loans money in her Village, but she does it properly and takes collateral - motorbikes, gold, TV's...

That worked for a while, but now I have 9 motorbikes and 17 TV's...the gold was easy to sell.

Never, ever, ever lend money to a Thai that you expect to get back without collateral....otherwise, it's a gift.

I'm sure there are some people that have lent money and got it back...but you are being set up for the big sting in the future.

Anyone need a TV or scoot?

If the BiB get a sniff about your wife's business ( your money), you could be out of here.

The middle-eastern religions take a dim view of loan-sharking as well... but I suppose someone has to do it

SC

[Beetlejuice]

Uneducated Thai: 1

Educated Westerner: 0

Repeat ad nauseam.

Educated does not equal wise and experienced.

Some of the most educated people I had known have been the most naive and gullible.

I am not criticizing or faulting this friend of cheynewalk, the guy tried to help someone out of the goodness of his heart and in good faith, the woman taking advantage of his generosity and not respecting or appreciating his kindness. It could happen to any of us and probably has in the past.

But as I said; it`s all down to life experiences, now the guy will be more aware, not so gullible in the future and a better person for it.

[bermondburi]

I think it all depends who you are lending money to. Personally I would never lend money to anyone outside of my wife's family and then only to certain people who I know have jobs etc. My wife on the other hand is a bit of a soft touch and she lends to people I would never lend to. We both have a once bitten twice shy policy though and you do kind of go into things knowing that the money may not come back again , or more usual for me is that it comes back a lot later than promised. As someone said though it is part of our job in a Thai family to help others in that family within reason. It's no different from what I would do with my family in the UK.

Had a funny one last week. My SIL owed me 3000 baht that was supposed to be paid back a month ago. She tried contacting us last Wednesday about it but because it was Macha Bucha day and a holiday we were still in bed when she called. Anyway she bought us ten trucks of earth instead and put them behind our house upcountry and levelled it off. We had intended to do this at some point and I would probably have rather had the cash but it was actually a good deal as they normally go for about 7-800 a truck. I just liked the way that she didn't wait to ask. In her eyes she was paying us back bigtime and I suppose she was. Bit of a ramble that but someone might find that interesting.

Must be pretty big trucks. Our last 600 truck loads were 160 baht each and we over paid just a bit.

You had a very very very good deal. Where l am it's 800 bht a load.

maybe it depends where you are, I've also noticed that it depends on the time of year and obviously how far the earth has to go as well.

[bermondburi]

I think it all depends who you are lending money to. Personally I would never lend money to anyone outside of my wife's family and then only to certain people who I know have jobs etc. My wife on the other hand is a bit of a soft touch and she lends to people I would never lend to. We both have a once bitten twice shy policy though and you do kind of go into things knowing that the money may not come back again , or more usual for me is that it comes back a lot later than promised. As someone said though it is part of our job in a Thai family to help others in that family within reason. It's no different from what I would do with my family in the UK.

Had a funny one last week. My SIL owed me 3000 baht that was supposed to be paid back a month ago. She tried contacting us last Wednesday about it but because it was Macha Bucha day and a holiday we were still in bed when she called. Anyway she bought us ten trucks of earth instead and put them behind our house upcountry and levelled it off. We had intended to do this at some point and I would probably have rather had the cash but it was actually a good deal as they normally go for about 7-800 a truck. I just liked the way that she didn't wait to ask. In her eyes she was paying us back bigtime and I suppose she was. Bit of a ramble that but someone might find that interesting.

Must be pretty big trucks. Our last 600 truck loads were 160 baht each and we over paid just a bit.

You had a very very very good deal. Where l am it's 800 bht a load.

At that price we wouldn't have bothered. I guess we are lucky we live where we do.

they are very big trucks !

[bermondburi]

I think it all depends who you are lending money to. Personally I would never lend money to anyone outside of my wife's family and then only to certain people who I know have jobs etc. My wife on the other hand is a bit of a soft touch and she lends to people I would never lend to. We both have a once bitten twice shy policy though and you do kind of go into things knowing that the money may not come back again , or more usual for me is that it comes back a lot later than promised. As someone said though it is part of our job in a Thai family to help others in that family within reason. It's no different from what I would do with my family in the UK.

Had a funny one last week. My SIL owed me 3000 baht that was supposed to be paid back a month ago. She tried contacting us last Wednesday about it but because it was Macha Bucha day and a holiday we were still in bed when she called. Anyway she bought us ten trucks of earth instead and put them behind our house upcountry and levelled it off. We had intended to do this at some point and I would probably have rather had the cash but it was actually a good deal as they normally go for about 7-800 a truck. I just liked the way that she didn't wait to ask. In her eyes she was paying us back bigtime and I suppose she was. Bit of a ramble that but someone might find that interesting.

Must be pretty big trucks. Our last 600 truck loads were 160 baht each and we over paid just a bit.

You had a very very very good deal. Where l am it's 800 bht a load.

At that price we wouldn't have bothered. I guess we are lucky we live where we do.

they are very big trucks.

[barefoot1988]

My wife loans money in her Village, but she does it properly and takes collateral - motorbikes, gold, TV's...

That worked for a while, but now I have 9 motorbikes and 17 TV's...the gold was easy to sell.

Never, ever, ever lend money to a Thai that you expect to get back without collateral....otherwise, it's a gift.

I'm sure there are some people that have lent money and got it back...but you are being set up for the big sting in the future.

Anyone need a TV or scoot?

me! if you are living in the north. I am looking for any 2 strokers to play with =)

[wana]

My wife loans money in her Village, but she does it properly and takes collateral - motorbikes, gold, TV's...

That worked for a while, but now I have 9 motorbikes and 17 TV's...the gold was easy to sell.

Never, ever, ever lend money to a Thai that you expect to get back without collateral....otherwise, it's a gift.

I'm sure there are some people that have lent money and got it back...but you are being set up for the big sting in the future.

Anyone need a TV or scoot?

me! if you are living in the north. I am looking for any 2 strokers to play with =)

you cant just sell peoples motorbikes because they owe you a few baht and late on the repayment unless there is contracts and suc h agreements in place

its a pain in the ass transferring a bike between the real owner and buyer sometimes ,i dont think the op is the legal owner of all these motorbikes and therefore any buyer would be recieving stolen goods ,5+ years i believe

[nocturn]

perhaps we should start up a series "I've got this friend who ...." or a friend of mine was wondering ..." threads.

A buddy of mine has this annoying itch ....

[arminbkk]

It's a bit of a sad story, but very little was really lost. Some people learn from their mistakes and others don't, and I'm not talking about the guy doing the charity. I've helped lots of local girls and expected nothing in return. Some used the money wisely and others were stupid and burnt their bridges. But, somewhere down the chain a person in need benefited from the help.

Yeah the person that sold her the phone..................

[Bakeman]

I would think if you give someone something, especially money, you really can complain what they do with it or spend it on. You gave that right away once it left your hand. LOL

[wana]

my thai neighbour went to town once and bought loads of dresses and crap and was showing me the things she could find in the markets etc

we used to eat together in the local steak shop ,i would have paid anyway but she always insisted on paying 50/50

then ,a few days later ,she asks me if she can borrow a 5000 thb because she doesnt get paid for 8 more days and her cat has no sand and cat food

she gets 40k a month from office,she is very talented ,speaks fluent thai ,fluent english and fluent japanese (not a lot by farang standards but more than many thai workers ) ,yet still cant seem to understand how to budget her money for a month and has ZERO savings for an emergency etc

it sounds funny when people say ,thais do not think further than the next bowl of rice but it has some merit.......

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Don't think one can consider themselves very fulfilled doing work like this mate ?

I think even in the top developed countries less than 5% of the working population are in any way "fulfilled" by their work. Most people do the work they do because that's where their life has led them, not through consciously planning anything. And they do it for the money.

And I know sex workers that have found their work very empowering. Including very intelligent educated feminists.

All depends on your POV.

[StreetCowboy]

Don't think one can consider themselves very fulfilled doing work like this mate ?

I think even in the top developed countries less than 5% of the working population are in any way "fulfilled" by their work. Most people do the work they do because that's where their life has led them, not through consciously planning anything. And they do it for the money.

And I know sex workers that have found their work very empowering. Including very intelligent educated feminists.

All depends on your POV.

I am fulfilled in my work. I generate spurious statistics - I am one of the 5%.

SC