Family Of Man In Skytrain Scuffle Threatened

[Curt1591]

Many contend that the sign is not an issue. One simply does not go against the guard's authority.

I contend that, without such a sign, the guard has no authority.

[animatic]

Nothing more than applying anthropological and sociological observation to the culture.

If the observation offends, that is not my intent nor fault.

You, not I, impose some implied looking down element.

In my opinion the worst part of Thai culture that causes the most Thais the most problems in life is Kow Tow, passed on for millennia by the Chinese, and implemented in a particularly Thai fashion here.

And Kow Tow is tied directly to Face and how all facets of the society interact.

It was clearly in play in this incident.

You may call it kow tow or krenjai but it could as easily be respect.

If it was only that I would be fine with it.

But it is more than that it has a ruling effect on peoples sense of self-worth from best friends,

to those wrongly aspiring to the highest chairs, and makes too many people do normally immoral acts to get more cash to up their status in society, how they get the money and power is not questioned, once that HAVE the money and power.

There is no culture war in Thailand, but there is 70 million individual culture wars

happening every time people meet and decide how how that wei goes.

Or someone loses status by not being listened to, or paid enough in HIS opinion,

like a songchaw driver told he's charging too much in public in front of other drivers,

and physically attacks the disputing rider demanding more money.

Driver can't back down because his kow tow status would shrink.

And should the rider defend himself from the attack he gets a gang beating.

Sure sounds like these guards game plan too. No respect? Use violence.

Krenjai as respect is fine,

but that is not the end of Kow Tow's rule over society and individuals actions.

Edited April 11, 2012 by animatic

[heiwa]

Nothing more than applying anthropological and sociological observation to the culture.

If the observation offends, that is not my intent nor fault.

You, not I, impose some implied looking down element.

In my opinion the worst part of Thai culture that causes the most Thais the most problems in life is Kow Tow, passed on for millennia by the Chinese, and implemented in a particularly Thai fashion here.

And Kow Tow is tied directly to Face and how all facets of the society interact.

It was clearly in play in this incident.

You may call it kow tow or krenjai but it could as easily be respect.

If it was only that I would be fine with it.

But it is more than that it has a ruling effect on peoples sense of self-worth from best friends,

to those wrongly aspiring to the highest chairs, and makes too many people do normally immoral acts to get more cash to up their status in society, how they get the money and power is not questioned, once that HAVE the money and power.

There is no culture war in Thailand, but there is 70 million individual culture wars

happening every time people meet and decide how how that wei goes.

Or someone loses status by not being listened to, or paid enough in HIS opinion,

like a songchaw driver told he's charging too much in public in front of other drivers,

and physically attacks the disputing rider demanding more money.

Driver can't back down because his kow tow status would shrink.

And should the rider defend himself from the attack he gets a gang beating.

Sure sounds like these guards game plan too. No respect? Use violence.

Krenjai as respect is fine,

but that is not the end of Kow Tow's rule over society and individuals actions.

Grengjai is fear. In Pattalung recently one police got a promotion and the other didn't. It resulted in one policeman shooting and killing six others and then himself. Thais have to deal with it as well. Those who get promoted also have to be careful with those who have to stay at a lower rank. And Jesus wept...

[somchaismith]

Dunno why so many here are in denial and don't realise that we are in the minority here in Thailand. When discrimination happens, for example: overcharging, fraud, assisted-suicides and the ever increasing "farang-lynchings", there's sfa that we can do about it.

[swillowbee]

I wonder if they check the blood of the guard for alcohol or Ya Ba (drug).

I think it would have been far more productive to check Behan's blood for alcohol, he left Surasak on the BTS and got off at Phrompong "to eat" after which he tried to re-board the BTS System, again at Phrompong.

There are at least 2 British and 1 Irish Pubs within a short walk of the BTS Station.

Patrick

... brilliant, Inspector Patrick, just brilliant! ... a keen observer of human behavior, you are.

... prior to seeing this video, if you had seen this man walking to the BTS Station, you would have seen him at about 7.00 in the evening ... he would have been walking with his 6-year-old daughter, carrying balloons and bags of gifts, joined by his friend and his wife (I believe).

... a person with normally developed cognitive thinking would likely have judged that this was a family out to celebrate a child's birthday.

... but you, Inspector Patrick! ... "far more productive to check Behan's blood for alcohol"!? ... you would judge him as a likely drunkard!?

... so, okay, let's take your position ... what do you think? ... maybe a 1-in-1,000 chance he would leave his school after work, collect his familiy and go get blasted out of his mind by 7.00p, all on his daughter's birthday ... please, Inspector Patrick ... is this more likely, or less likely? ... illuminate for us the erudite rationale.

... and you offer this up after the fact, now knowing that he is a school teacher who has held a job for years here ... you will have a hard time arguing that he is just another heavy-drinking farang.

... would you give it better than "far more productive" odds, that something else would cause a man to react to something so violently ... would an over-reaction by an untrained minimum wage security guard resulting in an unwarranted potentially deadly assault with a bludgeon do that?

... what do you make those odds, Inspector Patrick? ... this being Thailand, and considering the general cultural values of the parties and the situation they were in, I would reasonably venture far lower than your 1-in-1,000 "he's out getting blasted with the family on his daughter's brithday" explanation.

... critical thinking ... human nature ... Occam's Razor ... try them on, Inspector Patrick.

I wonder why you don't launch the same diatribe against the poster who suggested that the guard might be high on alcohol or Yaba. Double standards?

... double standards ... not at all.

... there is video of the assault victim to which I can venture some measured opinion about whether he was out for an afternoon of getting blasted after work, as Inspector apparently Patrick believes ... I can say little about the behavior of the security guard, except what we might forensicly deduce from general cultural values, and the expected behaviors of a low-skill, minimum wage Thai man in a situation where some measure of cultural knowledge would probably have resulted in a very different outcome.

... unless, of course, the assault victim was a raving drunkard bent on beating a Thai prai, as too many here allege ... personally, I think beating prai should be a privilege reserved only for the Thai elitists (that is dark humor) ... but, I guess no one will really know if he was drunk, because the BTS is unwilling to disclose evidence that would prove the BTS' policy, staff and security guard were in the right.

... but, no ... they didn't do that, did they ... they chose to conceal the CCTV tapes, issue and apology to the assault victim, send flowers to the assualt victim, fire the guard, and discipline the manager ... my gosh ... what is an independent-thinking person not held hostage to a culture of blind, unquestioning submission to authority (honestly, or corruptly earned) to think?

... if the CCTV tapes of the initial confrontation were disclosed by the BTS, and they revealed that the security guard was the victim and was wrongly fired by the BTS, I believe I would be amongst the first of a legion of people on this forum who would excoriate the BTS, as vigorously as we have written in opposition to the presumed guilt of the assault victim here.

... this is for most, I really believe, about basic right and wrong ... justice ... fairness ... concealing from public view the CCTV tapes of the initial assault, the BTS does no service to these values ... the BTS' unwillingness to face a harsh truth is but a reflection of Thai cultural values, which I contend is at the root of the confrontation ... and this debate ... their failure to openly face truth is a far greater threat to Thailand's reputation amongst foreign tourists than the actual assault.

... the BTS conceals evidence of the truth, believing their Thai compatriots ('their 'constituency') will see absolutely no further beyond what they've been allowed to see ... will not challenge them ... will not even question them ... that the whole embarrassing event will go away ... so far, so good for their constituency ... but, Thailand is now 'inter'.

... their technique works very well on Thais in the vacuum of Thailand ... but, many are still incensed ... and not just farang ... if Thailand wants to be a part of the developed, modern, civilized world, this is one of the responsibilies that comes with that privilege ... oppose injustice ... reading the daily Thai newspapers, the idea hasn't really caught on yet here.

... the cultural values of many in the developed, modern, civilized world drive us to dig deeper, and ask: "Why? ... what happened before the video? ... what would cause a man, apparently on a family evening out for his child's birthday, to act this way? ... what would cause a security guard to resort to potentially deadly force? ... is the use of a potentially deadly force commensurate with the threat posed?" ... what you ask me to believe defies reason, unless you are blinded, passified and subjucated ... for which I think there is a long, long history here in Thailand, and that persists today.

... some people write here that this is not our business ... it is ... opposing injustice is one of the qualities that makes us civilized, higher-functioning animals with uniquely human spirits ... separates us from jungle, tribal cultural values ... protecting the defenseless, poor, uneducated, disenfranchised, voiceless ... particularly so in a nation as notorious for injustice as Thailand now is.

... that includes protection for the security guard ... and, that includes protection for the hundreds of thousands of potential innocent victims traveling on the BTS and scores of other public transit systems every single day ... farang and Thai.

... many traveling on a family outing ... with their children ... to celebrate a child's birthday.

... I hate seeing this happen here, and it stinks to high hell, it really does ... I have kids for whose futures I am responsible ... I want them to have good lives in Thailand, and not see them someday choose to live in Cambodia, or Burma to improve the quality of their lives ... we've got to do better ... accepting the behaviors of feudal Thailand's cultural values prevents future generations of young Thais from enjoying the personal and spiritual benefits of the Age of Enlightenment that began in other cultures over 300 years ago!

[p_brownstone]

I wonder if they check the blood of the guard for alcohol or Ya Ba (drug).

I think it would have been far more productive to check Behan's blood for alcohol, he left Surasak on the BTS and got off at Phrompong "to eat" after which he tried to re-board the BTS System, again at Phrompong.

There are at least 2 British and 1 Irish Pubs within a short walk of the BTS Station.

Patrick

... brilliant, Inspector Patrick, just brilliant! ... a keen observer of human behavior, you are.

... prior to seeing this video, if you had seen this man walking to the BTS Station, you would have seen him at about 7.00 in the evening ... he would have been walking with his 6-year-old daughter, carrying balloons and bags of gifts, joined by his friend and his wife (I believe).

... a person with normally developed cognitive thinking would likely have judged that this was a family out to celebrate a child's birthday.

... but you, Inspector Patrick! ... "far more productive to check Behan's blood for alcohol"!? ... you would judge him as a likely drunkard!?

... so, okay, let's take your position ... what do you think? ... maybe a 1-in-1,000 chance he would leave his school after work, collect his familiy and go get blasted out of his mind by 7.00p, all on his daughter's birthday ... please, Inspector Patrick ... is this more likely, or less likely? ... illuminate for us the erudite rationale.

... and you offer this up after the fact, now knowing that he is a school teacher who has held a job for years here ... you will have a hard time arguing that he is just another heavy-drinking farang.

... would you give it better than "far more productive" odds, that something else would cause a man to react to something so violently ... would an over-reaction by an untrained minimum wage security guard resulting in an unwarranted potentially deadly assault with a bludgeon do that?

... what do you make those odds, Inspector Patrick? ... this being Thailand, and considering the general cultural values of the parties and the situation they were in, I would reasonably venture far lower than your 1-in-1,000 "he's out getting blasted with the family on his daughter's brithday" explanation.

... critical thinking ... human nature ... Occam's Razor ... try them on, Inspector Patrick.

I wonder why you don't launch the same diatribe against the poster who suggested that the guard might be high on alcohol or Yaba. Double standards?

Exactly, thank you, this was the point I was hoping to highlight.

So far as we have seen on the Video - the ONLY Video which was taken after the initial alleged assault by the Security Guard - ALL we see is Behan, totally out of control, being restrained by a friend, kicking at Security Guards, including a female Guard, repeatedly screaming "Eff You" in public and in front of his 7 year old Daughter.

And so on.

The only Video on-line to date clearly shows the BTS Guards, (even the Station Manager I believe), standing back and watching in bemusement as Behan does his "I am Farang and thus your rules do not apply to me" (and doubtless that he classifies himself, erroneously, as an "Ajarn") and thus believes himself immune to the requests of a low paid worker such as Khun Prasarn from Udorn Thani to obey the rules of the System he, Khun Prasarn, is employed to enforce.

However a previous Poster is allowed to imply that Khun Prasarn was influenced by drugs or alcohol - a FAR less plausible scenario than that clearly shown by the out of control actions of Behan.

Patrick

[PaulBax]

Someone in here asked for a balloon sign and which station.

Don't worry , I will look for it and find it and post a picture of it here, but it's not that important is it .

All stations have "Flammable goods" signs, and as we all know , balloons can be flammable.

Clothes are flamable!

[heiwa]

Dunno why so many here are in denial and don't realise that we are in the minority here in Thailand. When discrimination happens, for example: overcharging, fraud, assisted-suicides and the ever increasing "farang-lynchings", there's sfa that we can do about it.

Justice is for those of higher rank. The situation is irrelevant. You must understand your rank and accept all of the above. It your destiny for the sins of a past life for farang and Thai of lower rank. My neigbour short change me 300 baht. I accept this. They are of a superiour birth to I. For the sake of 300 baht it is not worth fighting - and if I did - it would only get worse. I think if you live in Thailand you should accept that this is part of the deal. If you do it will go a lot better for you. So many farang come here trying to fight the kow tow system - is it any wonder they are lynched? Edited April 11, 2012 by heiwa

[sparebox2]

I wonder if they check the blood of the guard for alcohol or Ya Ba (drug).

I think it would have been far more productive to check Behan's blood for alcohol, he left Surasak on the BTS and got off at Phrompong "to eat" after which he tried to re-board the BTS System, again at Phrompong.

There are at least 2 British and 1 Irish Pubs within a short walk of the BTS Station.

Patrick

... brilliant, Inspector Patrick, just brilliant! ... a keen observer of human behavior, you are.

... prior to seeing this video, if you had seen this man walking to the BTS Station, you would have seen him at about 7.00 in the evening ... he would have been walking with his 6-year-old daughter, carrying balloons and bags of gifts, joined by his friend and his wife (I believe).

... a person with normally developed cognitive thinking would likely have judged that this was a family out to celebrate a child's birthday.

... but you, Inspector Patrick! ... "far more productive to check Behan's blood for alcohol"!? ... you would judge him as a likely drunkard!?

... so, okay, let's take your position ... what do you think? ... maybe a 1-in-1,000 chance he would leave his school after work, collect his familiy and go get blasted out of his mind by 7.00p, all on his daughter's birthday ... please, Inspector Patrick ... is this more likely, or less likely? ... illuminate for us the erudite rationale.

... and you offer this up after the fact, now knowing that he is a school teacher who has held a job for years here ... you will have a hard time arguing that he is just another heavy-drinking farang.

... would you give it better than "far more productive" odds, that something else would cause a man to react to something so violently ... would an over-reaction by an untrained minimum wage security guard resulting in an unwarranted potentially deadly assault with a bludgeon do that?

... what do you make those odds, Inspector Patrick? ... this being Thailand, and considering the general cultural values of the parties and the situation they were in, I would reasonably venture far lower than your 1-in-1,000 "he's out getting blasted with the family on his daughter's brithday" explanation.

... critical thinking ... human nature ... Occam's Razor ... try them on, Inspector Patrick.

I wonder why you don't launch the same diatribe against the poster who suggested that the guard might be high on alcohol or Yaba. Double standards?

On a daily basis, many security guards are caught taking Yaba or alcohol while on duty in Thailand nationwide. This is a fact.

[Nisa]

Although the guards didn't handle this situation right, at least they were able to prevent him from boarding the train. I can only hope security in my condo complex would get the same results if somebody was trying to trespass, acting irate or acting irrational as if they are under the influence of some substance while trying to force there way onto the property ... regardless if a foreigner, local, old, young, parent or job title.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Nisa

[Nisa]

On a daily basis, many security guards are caught taking Yaba or alcohol while on duty in Thailand nationwide. This is a fact.

Well then this should be easy for you to back up since you know it is a fact. But I won't hold me breadth for you to show some kind of stats that show each day many guards are caught taking Yaba or alcohol ... especially those at the BTS. This stereotypical view is about as relevant as talking about the alcoholism rate of the Irish.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Nisa

[F4UCorsair]

wow over 700 replies!

At the end of the day what difference does a sign make?

The security stated a rule.......one option.... comply

If we are looking for a sign what next? Does it also need to be in braille?

I mean just in case

Flying, you are a clever lad/lass. I've been saying the same thing for 29 pages. I've also been saying that nobody posting here seems to have seen the entire CCTV footage, and until they do, they are not in a position to say that Behan was hard done by. I suspect quite the opposite.

Can it be any simpler??

Edited April 11, 2012 by F4UCorsair

[Nisa]

Although balloons may be filled with flammable gas, this is NOT the reason stated by the President of the BTS that they are banned. He only mentioned they can cause panic when they explode.

It is sad that people are trying to find the most illogical of excuses to defend this guy's actions and not simply accept both sides acted inappropriately. This silliness is not helping the views of this man who already admitted he did wrong.

If you really believe this is about balloons and signs then you should also believe it is OK to ignore guards at an airport who try to prevent you from bringing balloons on a plane, where they are also banned. And just like at the airport, sometimes you get away with bringing something onboard and other times you get nailed for it. If you somehow thing a guard at an airport deserves to be listened to but not a guard at the BTS then there is the real problem.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Nisa

[metisdead]

Nonsense troll posts have been removed

[Nisa]

That excessive force was used will come to light when the police conclude their investigation.

Hopefully the inept Thai cops will conclude their "investigation" in our life time. How long does it take to "investigate" a fem minutes of video? Maybe they are too busy looking to collect fines from helmet-less motorbike riders.

Sincerely doubt there will be a investigative conclusion to this matter. Generally a conclusion shows a party at blame. This is not the Thai style. So I think this event will quietly fade away, like so many other polarizing events. So if you are looking for a headline next month saying the case has been solved, and the causative factors have been found , you will be waiting for a long time.

The police, the BTS and the Irish Guy have already said/suggested both parties were at fault.

No release of video, police charges, court hearings or anything else is going to change the opinions of those who can't accept this simple & logical notion at this juncture.

However, we being a curious people, I too would love to see all the video but in my heart of hearts, I believe there is absolutely no reason for the police to make this public and believe it would only further enrage the extremists on both sides.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Nisa

[Gweiloman]

I think it would have been far more productive to check Behan's blood for alcohol, he left Surasak on the BTS and got off at Phrompong "to eat" after which he tried to re-board the BTS System, again at Phrompong.

There are at least 2 British and 1 Irish Pubs within a short walk of the BTS Station.

Patrick

... brilliant, Inspector Patrick, just brilliant! ... a keen observer of human behavior, you are.

... prior to seeing this video, if you had seen this man walking to the BTS Station, you would have seen him at about 7.00 in the evening ... he would have been walking with his 6-year-old daughter, carrying balloons and bags of gifts, joined by his friend and his wife (I believe).

... a person with normally developed cognitive thinking would likely have judged that this was a family out to celebrate a child's birthday.

... but you, Inspector Patrick! ... "far more productive to check Behan's blood for alcohol"!? ... you would judge him as a likely drunkard!?

... so, okay, let's take your position ... what do you think? ... maybe a 1-in-1,000 chance he would leave his school after work, collect his familiy and go get blasted out of his mind by 7.00p, all on his daughter's birthday ... please, Inspector Patrick ... is this more likely, or less likely? ... illuminate for us the erudite rationale.

... and you offer this up after the fact, now knowing that he is a school teacher who has held a job for years here ... you will have a hard time arguing that he is just another heavy-drinking farang.

... would you give it better than "far more productive" odds, that something else would cause a man to react to something so violently ... would an over-reaction by an untrained minimum wage security guard resulting in an unwarranted potentially deadly assault with a bludgeon do that?

... what do you make those odds, Inspector Patrick? ... this being Thailand, and considering the general cultural values of the parties and the situation they were in, I would reasonably venture far lower than your 1-in-1,000 "he's out getting blasted with the family on his daughter's brithday" explanation.

... critical thinking ... human nature ... Occam's Razor ... try them on, Inspector Patrick.

I wonder why you don't launch the same diatribe against the poster who suggested that the guard might be high on alcohol or Yaba. Double standards?

On a daily basis, many security guards are caught taking Yaba or alcohol while on duty in Thailand nationwide. This is a fact.

On a daily basis, many farangs are getting sloshed, worldwide. This is also a fact.

[Gweiloman]

I think it would have been far more productive to check Behan's blood for alcohol, he left Surasak on the BTS and got off at Phrompong "to eat" after which he tried to re-board the BTS System, again at Phrompong.

There are at least 2 British and 1 Irish Pubs within a short walk of the BTS Station.

Patrick

... brilliant, Inspector Patrick, just brilliant! ... a keen observer of human behavior, you are.

... prior to seeing this video, if you had seen this man walking to the BTS Station, you would have seen him at about 7.00 in the evening ... he would have been walking with his 6-year-old daughter, carrying balloons and bags of gifts, joined by his friend and his wife (I believe).

... a person with normally developed cognitive thinking would likely have judged that this was a family out to celebrate a child's birthday.

... but you, Inspector Patrick! ... "far more productive to check Behan's blood for alcohol"!? ... you would judge him as a likely drunkard!?

... so, okay, let's take your position ... what do you think? ... maybe a 1-in-1,000 chance he would leave his school after work, collect his familiy and go get blasted out of his mind by 7.00p, all on his daughter's birthday ... please, Inspector Patrick ... is this more likely, or less likely? ... illuminate for us the erudite rationale.

... and you offer this up after the fact, now knowing that he is a school teacher who has held a job for years here ... you will have a hard time arguing that he is just another heavy-drinking farang.

... would you give it better than "far more productive" odds, that something else would cause a man to react to something so violently ... would an over-reaction by an untrained minimum wage security guard resulting in an unwarranted potentially deadly assault with a bludgeon do that?

... what do you make those odds, Inspector Patrick? ... this being Thailand, and considering the general cultural values of the parties and the situation they were in, I would reasonably venture far lower than your 1-in-1,000 "he's out getting blasted with the family on his daughter's brithday" explanation.

... critical thinking ... human nature ... Occam's Razor ... try them on, Inspector Patrick.

I wonder why you don't launch the same diatribe against the poster who suggested that the guard might be high on alcohol or Yaba. Double standards?

... double standards ... not at all.

... there is video of the assault victim to which I can venture some measured opinion about whether he was out for an afternoon of getting blasted after work, as Inspector apparently Patrick believes ... I can say little about the behavior of the security guard, except what we might forensicly deduce from general cultural values, and the expected behaviors of a low-skill, minimum wage Thai man in a situation where some measure of cultural knowledge would probably have resulted in a very different outcome.

... unless, of course, the assault victim was a raving drunkard bent on beating a Thai prai, as too many here allege ... personally, I think beating prai should be a privilege reserved only for the Thai elitists (that is dark humor) ... but, I guess no one will really know if he was drunk, because the BTS is unwilling to disclose evidence that would prove the BTS' policy, staff and security guard were in the right.

... but, no ... they didn't do that, did they ... they chose to conceal the CCTV tapes, issue and apology to the assault victim, send flowers to the assualt victim, fire the guard, and discipline the manager ... my gosh ... what is an independent-thinking person not held hostage to a culture of blind, unquestioning submission to authority (honestly, or corruptly earned) to think?

... if the CCTV tapes of the initial confrontation were disclosed by the BTS, and they revealed that the security guard was the victim and was wrongly fired by the BTS, I believe I would be amongst the first of a legion of people on this forum who would excoriate the BTS, as vigorously as we have written in opposition to the presumed guilt of the assault victim here.

... this is for most, I really believe, about basic right and wrong ... justice ... fairness ... concealing from public view the CCTV tapes of the initial assault, the BTS does no service to these values ... the BTS' unwillingness to face a harsh truth is but a reflection of Thai cultural values, which I contend is at the root of the confrontation ... and this debate ... their failure to openly face truth is a far greater threat to Thailand's reputation amongst foreign tourists than the actual assault.

... the BTS conceals evidence of the truth, believing their Thai compatriots ('their 'constituency') will see absolutely no further beyond what they've been allowed to see ... will not challenge them ... will not even question them ... that the whole embarrassing event will go away ... so far, so good for their constituency ... but, Thailand is now 'inter'.

... their technique works very well on Thais in the vacuum of Thailand ... but, many are still incensed ... and not just farang ... if Thailand wants to be a part of the developed, modern, civilized world, this is one of the responsibilies that comes with that privilege ... oppose injustice ... reading the daily Thai newspapers, the idea hasn't really caught on yet here.

... the cultural values of many in the developed, modern, civilized world drive us to dig deeper, and ask: "Why? ... what happened before the video? ... what would cause a man, apparently on a family evening out for his child's birthday, to act this way? ... what would cause a security guard to resort to potentially deadly force? ... is the use of a potentially deadly force commensurate with the threat posed?" ... what you ask me to believe defies reason, unless you are blinded, passified and subjucated ... for which I think there is a long, long history here in Thailand, and that persists today.

... some people write here that this is not our business ... it is ... opposing injustice is one of the qualities that makes us civilized, higher-functioning animals with uniquely human spirits ... separates us from jungle, tribal cultural values ... protecting the defenseless, poor, uneducated, disenfranchised, voiceless ... particularly so in a nation as notorious for injustice as Thailand now is.

... that includes protection for the security guard ... and, that includes protection for the hundreds of thousands of potential innocent victims traveling on the BTS and scores of other public transit systems every single day ... farang and Thai.

... many traveling on a family outing ... with their children ... to celebrate a child's birthday.

... I hate seeing this happen here, and it stinks to high hell, it really does ... I have kids for whose futures I am responsible ... I want them to have good lives in Thailand, and not see them someday choose to live in Cambodia, or Burma to improve the quality of their lives ... we've got to do better ... accepting the behaviors of feudal Thailand's cultural values prevents future generations of young Thais from enjoying the personal and spiritual benefits of the Age of Enlightenment that began in other cultures over 300 years ago!

Show the video to 100 people with no comments, captions, background info - all 100 would concur that it's Behan that's out of control and not any of the guards IN THE VIDEO.

[Curt1591]

If you really believe this is about balloons and signs then you should also believe it is OK to ignore guards at an airport who try to prevent you from bringing balloons on a plane, where they are also banned. And just like at the airport, sometimes you get away with bringing something onboard and other times you get nailed for it.

I would have let this slide, but you mentioned "signs".

I do not ignore the rules. But, rules need to be defined. Otherwise, these "rules" could just be arbitrary mindfarts. I would believe that, even in Bangkok, such rules must be defined and displayed. If not, they should, at least, be accessible.

As I stated earlier, I have been confronted at the airport, Swampy, in fact. I was told that my items were not allowed. I knew, for a fact, that they were allowed. They said I must leave them. I told them they weren't and that I was not going to leave them. They said they were. I said let me talk with your supervisor. They waved me through. I guess they weren't too clear on the rule!

I have never said either side is at fault. This situation shouldn't have turned out this way. But, had the rule been uniformly applied, and/or posted, this all would not be happening.

If it were me, my solution would have been to simply deflate the balloons. Pretty simple solution for me. But, I don't have a kid in tow!

In any case, as pointed out, none of us have seen the initial encounter.

Funny thing. All the stations have no food, no pets, no smoking and various other signs. Apparently, avoiding a mess is more important than avoiding "... panic when [balloons] explode."

[Gweiloman]

If you really believe this is about balloons and signs then you should also believe it is OK to ignore guards at an airport who try to prevent you from bringing balloons on a plane, where they are also banned. And just like at the airport, sometimes you get away with bringing something onboard and other times you get nailed for it.

I would have let this slide, but you mentioned "signs".

I do not ignore the rules. But, rules need to be defined. Otherwise, these "rules" could just be arbitrary mindfarts. I would believe that, even in Bangkok, such rules must be defined and displayed. If not, they should, at least, be accessible.

As I stated earlier, I have been confronted at the airport, Swampy, in fact. I was told that my items were not allowed. I knew, for a fact, that they were allowed. They said I must leave them. I told them they weren't and that I was not going to leave them. They said they were. I said let me talk with your supervisor. They waved me through. I guess they weren't too clear on the rule!

I have never said either side is at fault. This situation shouldn't have turned out this way. But, had the rule been uniformly applied, and/or posted, this all would not be happening.

If it were me, my solution would have been to simply deflate the balloons. Pretty simple solution for me. But, I don't have a kid in tow!

In any case, as pointed out, none of us have seen the initial encounter.

Funny thing. All the stations have no food, no pets, no smoking and various other signs. Apparently, avoiding a mess is more important than avoiding "... panic when [balloons] explode."

What were your items that were initially not allowed and then subsequently allowed? Please do tell because this could have a significant bearing on your story.

[p_brownstone]

As I stated earlier, I have been confronted at the airport, Swampy, in fact. I was told that my items were not allowed. I knew, for a fact, that they were allowed. They said I must leave them. I told them they weren't and that I was not going to leave them. They said they were. I said let me talk with your supervisor. They waved me through. I guess they weren't too clear on the rule!

This is, of course, as many Posters have pointed out, the way to solve any problem like this.

If you disagree with the ruling of a minor functionary, request to have a more Senior person interpret or adjudicate, and usually the situation will be calmly, peacefully, resolved.

What do you imagine would have happened in your own specific situation, quoted here, if you had decided, as Behan (apparently) did, that the Rules should not apply to you, ignored the Guard and arrogantly barged ahead into an area where you had already been told you were not permitted?

In most places in the world one can dispute - politely - but resort to violence, physical and verbal abuse and you should accept the consequences.

Patrick

[metisdead]

A nonsense post has been removed.

[skorchio]

When i read about this I think of what would have happened in Canada, if he didnot comply with a quards request. Here is what I think would have happened especially if he tried to force his way through with the balloons. He would have probably been tasered. Then balloons and him taken to local police station and his wife and child would have had to arrange bail. He would have had to go to court and probably have a criminal record at the end of it all. He and his family should apologize to the quard, the BTS and pay the quard for lost wages , pain and suffering.

A public apology would help alot.

I have to agree with this - try and barge your way through protesting staff in the 'first world', and you will summarily restrained, arrested, charged, convicted, fined, and banned from Public transport for a period, just for good measure. This guy wouldn't think twice about doing this in Dublin, so WFT is he doing it in BKK for?

[heiwa]

When i read about this I think of what would have happened in Canada, if he didnot comply with a quards request. Here is what I think would have happened especially if he tried to force his way through with the balloons. He would have probably been tasered. Then balloons and him taken to local police station and his wife and child would have had to arrange bail. He would have had to go to court and probably have a criminal record at the end of it all. He and his family should apologize to the quard, the BTS and pay the quard for lost wages , pain and suffering.

A public apology would help alot.

I have to agree with this - try and barge your way through protesting staff in the 'first world', and you will summarily restrained, arrested, charged, convicted, fined, and banned from Public transport for a period, just for good measure. This guy wouldn't think twice about doing this in Dublin, so WFT is he doing it in BKK for?

Balloons on a crowded BTS carriage? Anything that can be seen as a threat to public safety - explosive balloons - should be dealt with accordingly for the sake of public safety.

[Soutpeel]

but resort to violence, physical and verbal abuse and you should accept the consequences.

In full agreement with this sentiment and it appears the BTS company agree's as well....they fired the security guard involved in this altercation

[Soutpeel]

I have to agree with this - try and barge your way through protesting staff in the 'first world', and you will summarily restrained, arrested, charged, convicted, fined, and banned from Public transport for a period, just for good measure.

But I do note getting beaten around the head with a metal detector is not on the list of things which would happen to you

[Nisa]

I have to agree with this - try and barge your way through protesting staff in the 'first world', and you will summarily restrained, arrested, charged, convicted, fined, and banned from Public transport for a period, just for good measure.

But I do note getting beaten around the head with a metal detector is not on the list of things which would happen to you

Lots of conflicting statements but the witness says he was not hit with a scanner but it was a guard's bracelet that caused the cut above his eye while he boxed the Irish guy (before the video).

The Irish guy says the other injury to his head came from a guard's nightstick right outside the train on the platform (after the video) he was still instant on boarding.

[Nisa]

but resort to violence, physical and verbal abuse and you should accept the consequences.

In full agreement with this sentiment and it appears the BTS company agree's as well....they fired the security guard involved in this altercation

Again, conflicting statements but I believe the BTS stated the guard was suspended (not fired - which the Irish guy has stated he didn't want to happen). I imagine a suspension would be normal during the investigation. They also stated others would be disciplined including those at the other station who didn't prevent him from taking balloons on the train earlier.

[yogi100]

What a lot of us falangs tend to overlook is that our behaviour as guests in the LOS must be the same as we expect from visitors to our home. Our PC rules demand that we accommodate and tolerate the bad behaviour of foreigners but those rules do not apply in Thailand.

Do as you're told, live by their rules, accept their traditions, or sling your hook or suffer the consequences.

[Bangkokhatter]

Nisa can I ask why you have some morbid fascination with the whole event ? 32 pages later and your still trying to get your point across ?

I am probably gonna regret asking, but through popping in on this thread every now and then I still don't understand what your getting at ?

Lets be honest, all parties acted rather poorly, thats ok for us because we see the result and now we comment..

But we were not there, we cannot say how we would react ..we hope maybe we would react different..but we are not Judge and Jury

Why can't you let it go ?

[Thaddeus]

Why can't you let it go ?

Nisa probably wants to score one point....... don't think it has happened before, ohhhh, it was so close.