Family Of Man In Skytrain Scuffle Threatened

[Nisa]

He probably wants to avoid the special attention that Mr Behan is getting, I know I would.

I seem to recall that according to Behan's wife, he's apparently a colleague at the same school, so as you say, with all that's gone on, he might not want to jeopardise his job there.

Would you come forward if it was your friend

Friend, mate, or work colleague.

In this situation.

First yes, second maybe, third probably not.

Most people have very few friends.

Valid points. Too hard to read into what this guy was to him on the video. A close friend (fairly young like these guys appear) might go down fighting along side their mate regardless if he is wrong or right but then again a calm friend, who knows his mate can get worked up, might take the approach the friend did and try to stop the situation from becoming worse.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Nisa

[FOODLOVER]

If the tapes cleared the Thai guard do you not think they would have been released?

[Ulysses G.]

Not necessarily. If the tapes make both parties look bad, BTS would not want more negative publicity.

.

[p_brownstone]

Why has BTS apologized to Behan publicly???

The BTS has NOT "apologized to Behan" - yes I know there was a headline in the Nation to that effect however there was nothing quoted in the body of the article to confirm that - although there were several Quotes from the BTS executive Khun Anat on other aspects of the situation.

Behan's wife is on record as saying clearly that they received no apology and nor did the BTS Company accept responsibility in any way. They did send flowers as a gesture of sympathy for the distress the incident caused to the family.

Patrick

[p_brownstone]

If the tapes cleared the Thai guard do you not think they would have been released?

The tapes are in the hands of the police as evidence, so even if the BTS had copies they would not be released to the public without police consent - which would not be given in case the content jeopardised their investigation.

Patrick

Edited April 5, 2012 by p_brownstone

[FOODLOVER]

If the tapes cleared the Thai guard do you not think they would have been released?

The tapes are in the hands of the police as evidence, so even if the BTS had copies they would not be released to the public without police consent - which would not be given in case the content jeopardised their investigation.

Patrick

Horse Hockey! If they cleared the guard they would be shown.

[sparebox2]

If you discount the death threats Behan has received to silence him.

I know them to be real, and I assume his friend is privy to the same info.

What do they fear him saying if he was totally at fault???

Why has BTS apologized to Behan publicly???

Thai apologise to Farang even when he/she know that Farang was wrong.

Because Farang is king in Thailand, and Thailand needs Farang money.

[carra]

Can someone please point me towards any article or evidence that Behan has requested compensation?

it seems to keep cropping up that he is pursuing compensation but I don't recall seeing this anywhere other than in accussations from certain posters trying to justify their stance.

The ammount of hyperbole and malice towards a victim in this thread is staggering.

We no even have someone saying Behan must have been the aggressor as the witness filming focussed on him, now forgive me if I am wrong it is focussed on the whole scene after a serious assault has taken place, and considering the standard of the footage I use the word 'focus' lightly.

As for not wanting the guard fired as an admission of some sort of guilt, what utter <deleted>. My car was hit by a bus driver that was at fault, I didn't want him fired as I guess he is the bread winner in his family, and despite being annoyed about his driving I made it clear I didnt want him in trouble and just wanted the insurance sorted. Does that make me guilty?

[carra]

It would have been good if BOTH Behan and the security guards had used reasonable behaviour.

and if both had used equal behaviour rather than the guard using excessive behaviour way above and beyond what was required.

OK. Next time I am told that I can't do something, I'll just start yelling and kicking over bins.

I agree that Behan shouldn't have been hit prior to going through the turnstyles, but he shouldn't have been kicking over bins either.

So if you kick over a bin (your words, as far as I know he kicked a bin) you deserve to be hit on the head and need hospital treatment, are you american by any chance?

[sparebox2]

Bread winner or not, the guard should be fired for hitting a Franag.

Farang is king in Thailand.

[meand]

This reminds me of the OJ simpson case. We all saw video of an "obviously guilty" and unstable culprit fleeing the police. Yet, as it turned out, and after all the evidence was in, our judgement on that video was wrong, he was in fact innocent!!

In all seriousness, has it ever occurred to anybody (maybe it has been mentioned?) that the BTS is holding back the footage to protect the Irish guy. In other words, it implicates the Irish guy and they are doing the right thing and trying to not incite any more violence. I feel that is highly plausible.

Edited April 5, 2012 by meand

[thaihome]

This reminds me of the OJ simpson case. We all saw video of an "obviously guilty" and unstable culprit fleeing the police. Yet, as it turned out, and after all the evidence was in, our judgement on that video was wrong, he was in fact innocent!!

He was found not guilty, I don't think anyone, except that jury thought he was innocent. Certainly the jury in the following civil case did not.

In all seriousness, has it ever occurred to anybody (maybe it has been mentioned?) that the BTS is holding back the footage to protect the Irish guy. In other words, it implicates the Irish guy and they are doing the right thing and trying to not incite any more violence. I feel that is highly plausible.

You may actually be close the truth. Both Behan and the BTS have been very quiet on this, and I'm sure they just want it to go away. Mr. Behan's statement that is all started due to a poor decison on his part should have been the end of it.

TH

Edited April 5, 2012 by thaihome

[carra]

once the guard become violent this matter was never just going to 'go away' in the same manner as a verbal disagreement could have.

as for the BTS witholding the tape to protect Behan, possible but not likely, if the tape was clear that Behan was in the wrong then it would already be out there. Once the guard struck the blow in a none violent disagreement, therefore turning it violent, was the point this got out of control and the G4S had to control the tapes and not release them.

I am 100% sure they will show the guard strike Behan on the head despite not being under and physical threat at that point, whether Behan was voiciferous or not it appears it the guard that became violent and escalated the situation because of his poor training/attitude. this is why the tapes have not been released, added to they are part of a police investigation although quite when that ever mattered to nayone in Thailand is open to dispute. The tapes will be damning againt the guard.

[mauGR1]

once the guard become violent this matter was never just going to 'go away' in the same manner as a verbal disagreement could have.

as for the BTS witholding the tape to protect Behan, possible but not likely, if the tape was clear that Behan was in the wrong then it would already be out there. Once the guard struck the blow in a none violent disagreement, therefore turning it violent, was the point this got out of control and the G4S had to control the tapes and not release them.

I am 100% sure they will show the guard strike Behan on the head despite not being under and physical threat at that point, whether Behan was voiciferous or not it appears it the guard that became violent and escalated the situation because of his poor training/attitude. this is why the tapes have not been released, added to they are part of a police investigation although quite when that ever mattered to nayone in Thailand is open to dispute. The tapes will be damning againt the guard.

A lot of people here speculating about tapes, i am throwing my speculation that there might be no tapes..

Remember the case of most cameras in BKK being "dummy" ones ?

Just speculating eh..

Also, i may be wrong, but of all the forumers supporting Mr. Behan, i dare to hope that most of them would have behaved in a different way.

[whybother]

So if you kick over a bin (your words, as far as I know he kicked a bin) you deserve to be hit on the head and need hospital treatment, are you american by any chance?

I don't know if he deserved to be hit initially, or whether the first hit was a deliberate or accidental strike by a guard. It could have been caused by an excited guard who was trying to stop Behan, but not as a deliberate strike.

Did he need hospital treatment following the initial strike, or was it required after he pushed through and was then attacked by guards when he tried to board the train with the balloons.

[carra]

So if you kick over a bin (your words, as far as I know he kicked a bin) you deserve to be hit on the head and need hospital treatment, are you american by any chance?

I don't know if he deserved to be hit initially, or whether the first hit was a deliberate or accidental strike by a guard. It could have been caused by an excited guard who was trying to stop Behan, but not as a deliberate strike.

Did he need hospital treatment following the initial strike, or was it required after he pushed through and was then attacked by guards when he tried to board the train with the balloons.

Well to know that we will need to know just how many times he was hit, and from the scratchy video he is already bleeding before he goes through the gate so we can probably assume he has already been attacked at this point.

If the assault was indeed an accident then let us see the video then nobody needs to speculate as to how many times he was hit and by who he was and what he was hit with, and more importanly whether the guard that did hit him was in immediate danger of being assaulted by Behan or if any other passengers where in immediate danger that would nessecitate a vicious assault.

The attack on the paltform by a number of guards would also be good to see, to see how much a danger he was being there.

people can speculate all they want about behan, about drunkeness, about his attitude etc etc etc but at the end of the day I doubt he did anything that warranted a physical attack. If when the cctv is released I am wrong then I will hold my hands up, however the actions of the BTS up to now would intimate the attack was not warranted and will highlight a number of safety issues for passenger using the BTS, mainly poorly trained guards.

I wonder if the application form says:

1. Can you wear a uniform?

2. can you blow a whistle?

3. Can you see a yellow line?

4. Can you blow your whistle in someones ear if they stand near the line?

5. Do you have the IQ of a coffee table?

6. Are you unstable and prone to violent outbursts if someone questions your authoritah haha?

I can't wait for this cctv to be released, let me make this clear I am not condoning behans behaviour, however I can understand the confusion, but I can never condone the violent assault by the guard just because he was questioned, and don't try and pretend he was in danger or other passengers were in danger which justified cracking a mans head open, because you know as well as i know that is just utter <deleted>.

Edited April 5, 2012 by carra

[thaihome]

...I can't wait for this cctv to be released, let me make this clear I am not condoning behans behaviour, however I can understand the confusion, but I can never condone the violent assault by the guard just because he was questioned, and don't try and pretend he was in danger or other passengers were in danger which justified cracking a mans head open, because you know as well as i know that is just utter <deleted>.

Actually it is apparent to everyone, except yourself, that you have made up your mind. You have stated several times already that the guard was “100% wrong”.

I will give you the same suggestion I gave to Mr. Drummond (whcih he never responsed to). The next time you go through the public transposition security check point at an airport, anywhere in the world, get into a shouting match with the guards about your bottle of shampoo or tube of toothpaste being too big. Be sure to at some point attempt to barge through. See what happens.

TH

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I will give you the same suggestion I gave to Mr. Drummond (whcih he never responsed to). The next time you go through the public transposition security check point at an airport, anywhere in the world, get into a shouting match with the guards about your bottle of shampoo or tube of toothpaste being too big. Be sure to at some point attempt to barge through. See what happens.

I believe the correct answer is the offending passenger in most places would get a free trip...

... to the nearest hospital emergency room and/or custody lockup.

Too bad the teacher didn't consider that fact before he went off on the BTS staff at the station that day.

[Curt1591]

It's been over a week, with no new information, and the speculations continue.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Yes, what's become of Thailand's finest, and most corrupt organization according to the Thais themselves, the famous BIB?

What's become of their infamous ability to settle and solve cases at the drop of a hat...or a few thousand baht notes???

[Koratpat]

I see a slew of posters advocating a violent beating by a security guard that would be called excessive force in their home country if a cop did it..

Edited April 5, 2012 by Koratpat

[thaihome]

I see a slew of posters advocating a violent beating by a security guard that would be called excessive force in their home country if a cop did it..

Can you point out one post that advocated "a violent beating by a security guard"? I have seen a bunch that said he should have given up the balloons when told to do so, I have seen many that said he should have known better, but I haven't seen one advocated any beating.

It sounds like you are engaging in a bit of hyperbole there in order to minimize the wrong decisions the Mr. Behan admits to making.

TH

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I see a slew of posters advocating a violent beating by a security guard that would be called excessive force in their home country if a cop did it..

Not advocating or even excusing the excessive force, but pointing out that you really have to go out of your way to get into such a situation here compared to how easily and frequently it happens back home.

And FFR for everyone, from a purely practical POV that it was easily avoidable, you can't operate here as if as a farang you're exempt from the same ground rules the Thais have to follow. In fact we should generally be more respectful and obedient of authority, no matter how little we want to recognize it as genuine authority, since we don't know even know the rules most of the time.

[Thaddeus]

I see a slew of posters advocating a violent beating by a security guard that would be called excessive force in their home country if a cop did it..

Not advocating or even excusing the excessive force, but pointing out that you really have to go out of your way to get into such a situation here compared to how easily and frequently it happens back home.

Really, where do you originate from, Somalia?

[meand]

The big problem here, as I see it, is that most of these guys claiming the security guard went overboard would also scream bloody hell the day a guy who was acting irrationally got on the BTS and set off a bomb or something of that nature. On that occasion, they'd be criticizing the guards for being stupid and way to relaxed. Lack of logic breeds hypocrisy.

[canuckamuck]

[katana]

Why has BTS apologized to Behan publicly???

The BTS has NOT "apologized to Behan" - yes I know there was a headline in the Nation to that effect however there was nothing quoted in the body of the article to confirm that - although there were several Quotes from the BTS executive Khun Anat on other aspects of the situation.

Behan's wife is on record as saying clearly that they received no apology and nor did the BTS Company accept responsibility in any way. They did send flowers as a gesture of sympathy for the distress the incident caused to the family.

Patrick

The BTS Director, Mr Anat Aphaphirom, did make a statement on the incident which was published in Matichon on 22/03/12.

John Behan doesn't come out of it blamelessly - apparently Anat reports he kicked the station master and pushed a security guard in the chest.

However on behalf of the company Anat says he's sorry and uneasy about the incident. He ordered an immediate investigation and the security guard(s) involved transferred away from the BTS system.

Anat also added that the company and it's staff are very sorry and express their deepest apologies for what happened to John Behan's family and will change procedures so that it doesn't happen again.

So an apology of sorts.

http://www.matichon....pid=00&catid=00

[ttelise]

the security guard was not a uniformed policeman

,

So we are agree about the order given, only not about the person who gave it, if it had been a uniformed policeman, we can admit that Mr. Behan would have obligingly obey the order.

No, an order given by a police officer must be a lawful order and not just on a whim, baring in mind there are no signs saying balloons are not allowed and the fact that Behan had already travelled on the BTS carrying the balloons he is correct to question the order as it would appear to be at the whim of the guard. What happened after he was struck by the guard bares no relevance as to whether he should have been hit or not so people talking about his demeanour after being hit is not relevant, the point is should he have been hit, was he an immediate threat to either the guard or others that would require to be physically subdued and the scant evidence would suggest he wasn't. Like I say after being hit no doubt he was angry and confused, any of us would be.

This situation is akin to being asked by the guard to get him a coffee, you refusing, and him hitting you (or rather in the mind of Behan it would be, who was not aware based on signs or precedent set only that day that it was an order based on authority and not just at the whim of the guard).

Soon some of you will be advocating a queue to bend over and take it up the wrong 'un from the guards, as they are in uniform and are therefore able to do as they please when they please.

If one has common sense, one probably should not question whether a police order is lawful. Go along with it at the time and challenge later or it may turn out worse for you. Doubt most non law enforcement individuals even have sufficient knowledge to make that determination. I am a lawyer and I don't. So yeah, if your smart you do what police say and challenge later. Dude was just going to do what he wanted to do no matter what and a power struggle ensued. Bad shit happens when a power struggle ensues and you challenge someone who thinks they have a little bit of power.

Not akin to refusing to get coffee. Be somewhat similar to being told cannot bring hot coffee into police station and trying to force way in anyway.

They told him to get rid of items not allowed on train. This dude, however, was going to do what he wanted to do and get on train no matter what. Power struggle ensued as he then challenged BTS to stop him if the can. 6 times out of 10, this will probably end up bad.

Edited April 5, 2012 by ttelise

[Ferangled]

The big problem here, as I see it, is that most of these guys claiming the security guard went overboard would also scream bloody hell the day a guy who was acting irrationally got on the BTS and set off a bomb or something of that nature. On that occasion, they'd be criticizing the guards for being stupid and way to relaxed. Lack of logic breeds hypocrisy.

Is the fact that the security guard "went overboard" even debatable? Really? He bashed a customer over the head with his scanner?!

The big problem here, as I see it, is that certain people conveniently miss the point to offer there own wild speculation or critique, often derogatory, sometimes defamatory and frequently with very tenuous links to reality...

Please save us the balloon bomb theories, they're not getting any more convincing and have no relevance to this whatsoever. It really grates on me when we are all expected to pander to (predominantly US spread) media induced terrorist fear... Get a grip man... or alternatively duck and cover back to your secure bunker, keep stock piling the ammo and stop spreading your paranoia, it's infectious.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Ferangled

[Nisa]

It's been over a week, with no new information, and the speculations continue.

Unless the police release a statement, I expect this will be the end of it. Not like their is any investigative journalism here ... they just wait for somebody to drop the news on their desk. And I am guessing all the parties involved at this point would like to see this become a distant memory.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Nisa