Is It Worth It

[englishoak]

My wife has been offered some land in kanchanaburi. 4 Rai, Road frontage, flat, looks ok has land markers

Price is 400000 bht. Now here's the catch the title is .... Nor sor sam ha.

I am well aware of the restriction of agricultural land, building or changing the name of usage over. I am also aware that TIT and most things are possible.We have no intention of trying to sell it but farm it

Now here's the question. If I build a house on it what are the real implications?

[johnnyk]

I'm no expert but I wouldn't put a house on anything that was less than chanote.

[Gary A]

I was told by a good Thai friend that the seal on the chanote is in different colors. If the seal is red it has no restrictions and if not there will be restrictions of some kind.

I'm no expert but I wouldn't put a house on anything that was less than chanote.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[johnnyk]

I was told by a good Thai friend that the seal on the chanote is in different colors. If the seal is red it has no restrictions and if not there will be restrictions of some kind.

maybe like a covenant or similar to what we have in north america?

[chownah]

My wife has been offered some land in kanchanaburi. 4 Rai, Road frontage, flat, looks ok has land markers

Price is 400000 bht. Now here's the catch the title is .... Nor sor sam ha. 

I am well aware of the restriction of agricultural land, building or changing the name of usage over. I am also aware that TIT and most things are possible.We have no intention of trying to sell it but farm it

Now here's the question. If I build a house on it    what are the real implications?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Since we do not know your personal circumstances it is difficult to advise as to if it's 'worth it'. From a business standpoint you will not be able to justify the expense of buying the land with the money you will make from farming it. If you want to know if its worth it then you must look for value somewhere else....a building site, appreciation of value of the land over time, natural beauty, location, etc. Peace of mind is important and I'm wondering what is so special about this piece of land that you are considering building in a risky place. For the price you could probably find land with a chanote and not have to worry about anything....there is a lot of land in Thailand and no need to feel like you have to take any particular offer.

[Dragonman]

My wife has been offered some land in kanchanaburi. 4 Rai, Road frontage, flat, looks ok has land markers

Price is 400000 bht. Now here's the catch the title is .... Nor sor sam ha. 

I am well aware of the restriction of agricultural land, building or changing the name of usage over. I am also aware that TIT and most things are possible.We have no intention of trying to sell it but farm it

Now here's the question. If I build a house on it    what are the real implications?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you sure that's the title? I have not come across it, as it appears a very old title. I know however that the upgrade of other than nor sor sahm 1 & 3 has been suspended due to land grabbing activities. Well, the only possibility is, if you don't grease the palm of your local land office official when they find out, you will have to remove the property or they will demolish it!

[Krub]

My wife has been offered some land in kanchanaburi. 4 Rai, Road frontage, flat, looks ok has land markers

Price is 400000 bht. Now here's the catch the title is .... Nor sor sam ha. 

I am well aware of the restriction of agricultural land, building or changing the name of usage over. I am also aware that TIT and most things are possible.We have no intention of trying to sell it but farm it

Now here's the question. If I build a house on it    what are the real implications?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If yu intend to built a house on the land, do not touch it unless it has a red chanote.

i had difficulties even to change a green chanode to a red one....

[stevehaigh]

My wife has been offered some land in kanchanaburi. 4 Rai, Road frontage, flat, looks ok has land markers

Price is 400000 bht. Now here's the catch the title is .... Nor sor sam ha. 

I am well aware of the restriction of agricultural land, building or changing the name of usage over. I am also aware that TIT and most things are possible.We have no intention of trying to sell it but farm it

Now here's the question. If I build a house on it    what are the real implications?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If yu intend to built a house on the land, do not touch it unless it has a red chanote.

i had difficulties even to change a green chanode to a red one....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

there is no problem building on Nor Sor 3 land. Most houses in thailand outside of big cities are on Nor Sor 3 land. it's a perfectly good title and affords the same rights as chanoht in almost every way. the big difference is between nor sor 3 and nor sor 3 gor, the former not having well defined boundaries, the latter is basically the same as chanoht. look in the top right side of the document, outside the boundard line, does it have 3 charaters or 4?

here it is in Thai, not sure if your computer will display it:

น. ส. ๓. ก. Nor Sor 3 Gaw

น. ส. ๓. Nor Sor 3

By the way, I assume by "Nor sor sam ha" you mean "Nor sor sam funny ha ha" right? are are you saying the title actually says "Nor sor sam ha"? haa is 5 in thai, so are you saying "Nor sor 3 5"?.

Edited December 19, 2005 by stevehaigh

[englishoak]

Ok having talked more to the wife and family in thailand it seems the land title is.

Por bor Tor 5 Now i'm realy confused as I can't find any reference anywhere. Mabe the spelling is not correct. It's certainly not nor sor etc thats for sure.

The reason is it's of interest is the area concerned is deep in kanchanaburi province and they don't have chanote or even nor sor titles issued around there.The area is good and is near family village. Anyway I want to persue it a bit more if only to learn about these other abstract titles.

[stevehaigh]

Ok having talked more to the wife and family in thailand it seems the land title is.

Por bor Tor 5    Now i'm realy confused as I can't find any reference anywhere. Mabe the spelling is not correct. It's certainly not nor sor etc thats for sure.

The reason is it's of interest is the area concerned is deep in kanchanaburi province and they don't have chanote or even nor sor  titles issued around there.The area is good and is near family village. Anyway I want to persue it a bit more if only to learn about these other abstract titles.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i think you mean Por. Bor. Tor 6.

Por. Bor. Tor 6 is documentation that all land must have in order for a tax number to be issued and tax to be paid upon the benefits of the land. It does not in anyway infer title, ownership or possessory right of the land, only that it has been assessed as taxable.

you would not be able to get a building permit to build on this land.

[Dragonman]

Ok having talked more to the wife and family in thailand it seems the land title is.

Por bor Tor 5    Now i'm realy confused as I can't find any reference anywhere. Mabe the spelling is not correct. It's certainly not nor sor etc thats for sure.

The reason is it's of interest is the area concerned is deep in kanchanaburi province and they don't have chanote or even nor sor  titles issued around there.The area is good and is near family village. Anyway I want to persue it a bit more if only to learn about these other abstract titles.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ah that explains things better. Por Bor Tor 5 is agricultural land or forestry land not recognised as having ownership, by the local land office. The local Poo Yai will be classed as the sole Administrator and he should know ownership by possessory rights title, and also boundaries of the land. When sold, money just changes hands with the knowledge of the Poo Yai. Strictly speaking no development can take place, but in many areas Guest Houses, Restaurants and homes have been built with full knowledge of local Planning officials. This is particularly common on islands such as Koh Chang. However there have also been cases where restaurants have been bulldozed. If you aint got good friends, you need good money in Thailand

[sierra01]

Be on the safe side, get a decent lawyer to check the title.

[Dragonman]

Be on the safe side, get a decent lawyer to check the title.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Any decent lawyer should tell you "don't do it" as you are risking your money, and in fact any decent realtor should not act in the sale of such land. But then there will always be someone who takes a risk and makes millions of baht out of it.

[chownah]

Our house is built on land that has NO OWNERSHIP DOCUMENTS WHATSOEVER!! I checked it out at the land office and with the village people and the reason for it made sense and since my mother in law was the recognized owner and since it was absolutely the best location (on the edge of my wife's family's village with rice fields on two sides, soi and power to the lot with irrigation canal on one side) and the most beautiful lot (teak, mango, lam yai, kah noon, and taeung trees with banana plants etc.) I decided that it was unlikely that anyone would be able to claim prior ownership so I decided to go ahead and build but to keep in mind that it is possible that I will have to walk away from it at some time....but I really doubt it.

[englishoak]

Tor. Bor. Tor 5 and 6 is evidence that the occupier of a piece of land has been issued a tax number and has paid tax for using the benefit of the land. This confers no rights at all but was formerly used to establish that the holder was occupying a piece of land and could apply for a Sor Kor 1. The land must be used for agriculture, but a single house for the farmer may be built on it.

Sor Kor 1 is a notification form of possessed land. This document entitles the holder to occupy and farm the land. Sor Kor 1 land may not be sold – it may only be passed on by inheritance and its use is subject to the same restrictions as Tor Bot Tor land. Depending on the land's location, this document may be upgraded to Nor Sor 3 or Chanote. No Sor Kor 1 has been issued since 1972.

Better but still uneasy & consused about the comment in red.i thought you had to apply for builing but that comment makes me wonder

[Dragonman]

Tor. Bor. Tor 5 and 6 is evidence that the occupier of a piece of land has been issued a tax number and has paid tax for using the benefit of the land. This confers no rights at all but was formerly used to establish that the holder was occupying a piece of land and could apply for a Sor Kor 1. The land must be used for agriculture, but a single house for the farmer may be built on it.

Sor Kor 1 is a notification form of possessed land. This document entitles the holder to occupy and farm the land. Sor Kor 1 land may not be sold – it may only be passed on by inheritance and its use is subject to the same restrictions as Tor Bot Tor land. Depending on the land's location, this document may be upgraded to Nor Sor 3 or Chanote. No Sor Kor 1 has been issued since 1972.

Better but still uneasy & consused about the comment in red.i thought you had to apply for builing but that comment makes me wonder

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Originally this land was given to poor farmers, normally in 2 plots. First to build home for farming, as most were homeless, and second area normally separate, for farming. The quote in red, which is presumably from some realtor or lawyers website, is confusing. These options are not now available, and besides you would not be related to the original title holder and therefore cannot officially own the land ( but lots of Thais, particularly Government officials, have).

Farangs in my wife's village have built quite expensive homes on untitled land, normally the wife or girlfriend's parents land, with no problems yet as Chownah says. If you make regular donations to the Poo Yai you should be OK