Diesel Oil

[Ahnsahn]

For normal, everyday driving here in LOS, is it possible to use Mobil 1 Extended Performance 10W-30 engine oil in a 3.0L (Fortuner or MU-7) diesel?

Mobil 1 Extended Performance 10W-30 is certified to meet (or exceed) the following standards:

ILSAC GF-5

API SN, SM, SL, SJ, EC, CF

ACEA A1/B1, A5/B5

Has anyone done this?

Edited April 6, 2012 by Ahnsahn

[transam]

If 10w/30 is OK for our temperatures in your rides handbook, then yes. I always use synthetic oil.

[Ahnsahn]

If 10w/30 is OK for our temperatures in your rides handbook, then yes. I always use synthetic oil.

Thanx, TA! What brand synthetic do you use?

[transam]

If 10w/30 is OK for our temperatures in your rides handbook, then yes. I always use synthetic oil.

Thanx, TA! What brand synthetic do you use?

In LOS l use Toyota's own synthetic oil at the main dealer. Why, cos l am sure of what l am getting, if you get my drift.

[Ahnsahn]

If 10w/30 is OK for our temperatures in your rides handbook, then yes. I always use synthetic oil.

Thanx, TA! What brand synthetic do you use?

In LOS l use Toyota's own synthetic oil at the main dealer. Why, cos l am sure of what l am getting, if you get my drift.

Got 'cha! Do they sell fully synthetic and/or semi-synthetic?

[transam]

If 10w/30 is OK for our temperatures in your rides handbook, then yes. I always use synthetic oil.

Thanx, TA! What brand synthetic do you use?

In LOS l use Toyota's own synthetic oil at the main dealer. Why, cos l am sure of what l am getting, if you get my drift.

Got 'cha! Do they sell fully synthetic and/or semi-synthetic?

Yep. They will give you the empty containers to show what you had.

Edited April 6, 2012 by transam

[JeffreyMcCollum]

Mobil 1 is imported and is taxed higher than some of the local full syn oil from PTT

[pipo1000]

Mobil 1 is imported and is taxed higher than some of the local full syn oil from PTT

Which makes it more prone to counterfeit.

As for PTT,not in my vehicle.

[Ahnsahn]

Mobil 1 is imported and is taxed higher than some of the local full syn oil from PTT

Which makes it more prone to counterfeit.

As for PTT,not in my vehicle.

.....the frequent practice of 'conterfeit' name-brands here was another concern I had, but getting items from the dealership should highly reduce that likelihood.

[VocalNeal]

Which makes it more prone to counterfeit.

Funny In Indonesia for my m/bike i was told always buy oil in a can not a plastic bottle. Reason: you cannot refill and reseal a used can.

[David006]

If 10w/30 is OK for our temperatures in your rides handbook, then yes. I always use synthetic oil.

Read someplace that one should not use synthetic oils in a new vehicle due to the fact that it is a superior lubricator and hence does not allow the the engine sufficient run in wear.

..also older higher mileage engines will not realise the benefits due to the wear and the possibility of burning the thinner synthetic oils.

Poses another question for our resident petrol head:..do new vehicles actually need to be run in these days or are they run in at the factory?

[Ahnsahn]

If 10w/30 is OK for our temperatures in your rides handbook, then yes. I always use synthetic oil.

Read someplace that one should not use synthetic oils in a new vehicle due to the fact that it is a superior lubricator and hence does not allow the the engine sufficient run in wear.

..also older higher mileage engines will not realise the benefits due to the wear and the possibility of burning the thinner synthetic oils.

Poses another question for our resident petrol head:..do new vehicles actually need to be run in these days or are they run in at the factory?

I also read somewhere, (Mobil's oil site?), explanations proving those statements to be myth. Synthetic engine oils are superior to mineral oils.

[transam]

If 10w/30 is OK for our temperatures in your rides handbook, then yes. I always use synthetic oil.

Read someplace that one should not use synthetic oils in a new vehicle due to the fact that it is a superior lubricator and hence does not allow the the engine sufficient run in wear.

..also older higher mileage engines will not realise the benefits due to the wear and the possibility of burning the thinner synthetic oils.

Poses another question for our resident petrol head:..do new vehicles actually need to be run in these days or are they run in at the factory?

If new motor run the first 1000km on mineral oil, then run on synthetic. An old engine will be cleaned by synthetic and the oil might find it's way past seals, don't know till you try.

Synthetic comes in many weights/thicknesses, same as mineral oil.

[CGW]

If 10w/30 is OK for our temperatures in your rides handbook, then yes. I always use synthetic oil.

Read someplace that one should not use synthetic oils in a new vehicle due to the fact that it is a superior lubricator and hence does not allow the the engine sufficient run in wear.

..also older higher mileage engines will not realise the benefits due to the wear and the possibility of burning the thinner synthetic oils.

Poses another question for our resident petrol head:..do new vehicles actually need to be run in these days or are they run in at the factory?

This is a somewhat contentious subject, different manufacturers have different guidelines, engines are built to much stricter tolerances nowadays, but IMHO they are nor perfect, common sense tells me it is a good idea to take it easy for the first 1k or so, personally i would always change the oil and filter after the first 1k also, though many manufactures say this is not required.

I am a big fan of synthetic oils but would not start to use until about 10k to be sure everything is bedded in, that could well be an "old fashioned" view in this day and age!

[transam]

If 10w/30 is OK for our temperatures in your rides handbook, then yes. I always use synthetic oil.

Read someplace that one should not use synthetic oils in a new vehicle due to the fact that it is a superior lubricator and hence does not allow the the engine sufficient run in wear.

..also older higher mileage engines will not realise the benefits due to the wear and the possibility of burning the thinner synthetic oils.

Poses another question for our resident petrol head:..do new vehicles actually need to be run in these days or are they run in at the factory?

This is a somewhat contentious subject, different manufacturers have different guidelines, engines are built to much stricter tolerances nowadays, but IMHO they are nor perfect, common sense tells me it is a good idea to take it easy for the first 1k or so, personally i would always change the oil and filter after the first 1k also, though many manufactures say this is not required.

I am a big fan of synthetic oils but would not start to use until about 10k to be sure everything is bedded in, that could well be an "old fashioned" view in this day and age!

On ''new'' old engines there was a ''run in'' period to bed the piston rings and cylinders, thats all, everything else had to be taken care of by the oil. Modern ring technology/materials has changed all that. When l bought my new Toyota they said come back after 10k,Km, l said no l will be back after 1k,Km for oil and filter.

[David006]

If 10w/30 is OK for our temperatures in your rides handbook, then yes. I always use synthetic oil.

Read someplace that one should not use synthetic oils in a new vehicle due to the fact that it is a superior lubricator and hence does not allow the the engine sufficient run in wear.

..also older higher mileage engines will not realise the benefits due to the wear and the possibility of burning the thinner synthetic oils.

Poses another question for our resident petrol head:..do new vehicles actually need to be run in these days or are they run in at the factory?

This is a somewhat contentious subject, different manufacturers have different guidelines, engines are built to much stricter tolerances nowadays, but IMHO they are nor perfect, common sense tells me it is a good idea to take it easy for the first 1k or so, personally i would always change the oil and filter after the first 1k also, though many manufactures say this is not required.

I am a big fan of synthetic oils but would not start to use until about 10k to be sure everything is bedded in, that could well be an "old fashioned" view in this day and age!

On ''new'' old engines there was a ''run in'' period to bed the piston rings and cylinders, thats all, everything else had to be taken care of by the oil. Modern ring technology/materials has changed all that. When l bought my new Toyota they said come back after 10k,Km, l said no l will be back after 1k,Km for oil and filter.

Okay so if one beds in the vehicle including all the moving parts using mineral oils...if one decides to use synthetic is there any flushing necessary..seem to remember something about that when synthetics were introduced way back.

Also if synthetics are that much better are these oils available for standard gearboxes and all transmission components( rear end/4x4 transfer case etc?)

[Ahnsahn]

Okay so if one beds in the vehicle including all the moving parts using mineral oils...if one decides to use synthetic is there any flushing necessary..seem to remember something about that when synthetics were introduced way back.

Also if synthetics are that much better are these oils available for standard gearboxes and all transmission components( rear end/4x4 transfer case etc?)

Again, the answer to your first question is, "No", that being another one of those 'myths'. Synthetic oil can be mixed with conventional (mineral based) oil but its protective effectiveness is also that much reduced.

And, yes, there are synthetic variants for many applications. When I learned that the race car circuit has been using them for the longest, that's when it struck me: Conventional (mineral) oils are OK for everyday use but if you really want to protect your mechanical baby, then Synthetic oil is the way to go. It decreases the rate of engine component wear as compared to conventional oils.

[transam]

Okay so if one beds in the vehicle including all the moving parts using mineral oils...if one decides to use synthetic is there any flushing necessary..seem to remember something about that when synthetics were introduced way back.

Also if synthetics are that much better are these oils available for standard gearboxes and all transmission components( rear end/4x4 transfer case etc?)

Again, the answer to your first question is, "No", that being another one of those 'myths'. Synthetic oil can be mixed with conventional (mineral based) oil but its protective effectiveness is also that much reduced.

And, yes, there are synthetic variants for many applications. When I learned that the race car circuit has been using them for the longest, that's when it struck me: Conventional (mineral) oils are OK for everyday use but if you really want to protect your mechanical baby, then Synthetic oil is the way to go. It decreases the rate of engine component wear as compared to conventional oils.

Correct.

[David006]

Okay so if one beds in the vehicle including all the moving parts using mineral oils...if one decides to use synthetic is there any flushing necessary..seem to remember something about that when synthetics were introduced way back.

Also if synthetics are that much better are these oils available for standard gearboxes and all transmission components( rear end/4x4 transfer case etc?)

Again, the answer to your first question is, "No", that being another one of those 'myths'. Synthetic oil can be mixed with conventional (mineral based) oil but its protective effectiveness is also that much reduced.

And, yes, there are synthetic variants for many applications. When I learned that the race car circuit has been using them for the longest, that's when it struck me: Conventional (mineral) oils are OK for everyday use but if you really want to protect your mechanical baby, then Synthetic oil is the way to go. It decreases the rate of engine component wear as compared to conventional oils.

Correct.

so, myth or not, it would be logical/good idea when changing over ,to put a couple of litres of synthetic, run to warm up,drain it and then reload with synthetic to get the best effective lubrication advantage of synthetics....probably have to change filters three times too..ouch?

[transam]

Okay so if one beds in the vehicle including all the moving parts using mineral oils...if one decides to use synthetic is there any flushing necessary..seem to remember something about that when synthetics were introduced way back.

Also if synthetics are that much better are these oils available for standard gearboxes and all transmission components( rear end/4x4 transfer case etc?)

Again, the answer to your first question is, "No", that being another one of those 'myths'. Synthetic oil can be mixed with conventional (mineral based) oil but its protective effectiveness is also that much reduced.

And, yes, there are synthetic variants for many applications. When I learned that the race car circuit has been using them for the longest, that's when it struck me: Conventional (mineral) oils are OK for everyday use but if you really want to protect your mechanical baby, then Synthetic oil is the way to go. It decreases the rate of engine component wear as compared to conventional oils.

Correct.

so, myth or not, it would be logical/good idea when changing over ,to put a couple of litres of synthetic, run to warm up,drain it and then reload with synthetic to get the best effective lubrication advantage of synthetics....probably have to change filters three times too..ouch?

Not really. Synthetic is tooooooo extensive to mess about. Just drain and fill.

[soundman]

Not really. Synthetic is tooooooo extensive to mess about. Just drain and fill.

100% agree. (don't forget the filter though )

And by about the third change of fully synthetic, you will find bugger all ash/residual debris in the oil, even after running 15k km's. The oil still appears relatively clean.

On the subject of brands:

The mechanic in the back of my service station uses roughly 3000 - 5000 litres of engine oil a month. (He services all those passenger vans that do inter jungwat runs from BKK). Nearly 80% of customer demand is PTT brand, even though many other leading brands can be bought slightly cheaper for the same specification.

Most drivers think they are getting better mileage in between oil changes. I would tend to agree that the synthetic PTT oils are very good.

[culicine]

I agree synthetic oils are the best and at my first change (10K kms), I went to fully synthetic and have clocked nearly 195K kms now (honda civic). What's more important than the oil are regular changes of oil and filters. I honestly can't detect any drop in compression over 8 years and attribute that to never missing a service. Letting the oil level in my old mini quickly burned the valves / head, requiring a a major top overhaul. That was a costly lesson!

[Kwasaki]

Sorry but I do not understand this thread, it just makes people worry, use oem oils in the car/truck whatever, Mobil oil is good but expensive so if you want to pay for it OK, no worries.

[BSJ]

Just use regular oil twice as often. Change the filter every time.

[Pomthai]

3.0 Isuzu - Swapped from the dealer mineral after 100,000km service to Shell Helix Ultra fully synthetic changed every 10-15Kish has run up to 18 or 20K a couple of times between changes. Truck has over 320,000K's now - sounds and runs as good as ever. This might be helped by having the EGR blanked from around 60,000K's and DPF filter deleted at the same time. Keep it clean by regularly changing oil & filters and let it breath properly and it'll last for a very long time.

[Ahnsahn]

3.0 Isuzu - Swapped from the dealer mineral after 100,000km service to Shell Helix Ultra fully synthetic changed every 10-15Kish has run up to 18 or 20K a couple of times between changes. Truck has over 320,000K's now - sounds and runs as good as ever. This might be helped by having the EGR blanked from around 60,000K's and DPF filter deleted at the same time. Keep it clean by regularly changing oil & filters and let it breath properly and it'll last for a very long time.

Now you're talking (my language) and good for you! Looking to get past the big 550,000K!

I go the extra step and use the Synthetic engine oil during the warranty period between each service call - I refill the engine with the dealers mineral oil and filter that I drain and store after each visit.

BTW, can you explain the benefits of having the EGR blanked and DPF filter deleted? I am not familiar with this being this is my first diesel engine..

Edited April 8, 2012 by Ahnsahn

[Pomthai]

3.0 Isuzu - Swapped from the dealer mineral after 100,000km service to Shell Helix Ultra fully synthetic changed every 10-15Kish has run up to 18 or 20K a couple of times between changes. Truck has over 320,000K's now - sounds and runs as good as ever. This might be helped by having the EGR blanked from around 60,000K's and DPF filter deleted at the same time. Keep it clean by regularly changing oil & filters and let it breath properly and it'll last for a very long time.

Now you're talking (my language) and good for you! Looking to get past the big 550,000K!

I go the extra step and use the Synthetic engine oil during the warranty period between each service call - I refill the engine with the dealers mineral oil and filter that I drain and store after each visit.

BTW, can you explain the benefits of having the EGR blanked and DPF filter deleted? I am not familiar with this being this is my first diesel engine..

You asked for it.... Long post warning :-

These are my thoughts and opinions after doing a decent amount of research and being familiar with diesel engines.

First, the EGR or Exhaust Gas Return or Recirculation Valve(s).

First introduced as an emissions control device, the EGR valves are mounted on the inlet manifold temporarily connecting the exhaust manifold and inlet manifold together when opened. Exhaust gasses are allowed to flow into the inlet manifold to cool the combustion chamber (supposedly) reducing the formation of NOx (Nitrogen Oxides) and allowing harmful compounds to be re-burnt thus reducing NOx levels and other pollutants in the in the overall exhaust emissions. The EGR valves are electronically or pneumatically controlled by vehicles ECU.

EGR’s are disabled by mechanically blanking them with a metal gasket or plate, removing / blocking the vacuum hoses that operate them or disconnecting them electronically. All of the above methods have their pros and cons. Generally the ECU won’t know you did anything if you mechanically blank the valves. However electronic disconnects or fiddling with the vacuum hoses can result in a check engine warning light. – I’m not going into the ins and outs of check engine light or how they operate or what does or doesn’t trigger them. My point is you want to avoid them and the possibility of your engine going into limp mode. (Limp mode is a basic ECU fueling program often with limited RPM’s to get your car home or to a dealer for repairs)

Second, DPF or Diesel Particulate Filter.

This little gem is parked in the exhaust between the turbo and main down pipe usually about a foot long section overall. It is often referred too here (wrongly since it isn’t) as a CAT delete owing to the similar practice used replacing catalytic converters with a straight pipe. The principal is the same the DPF filter is replaced with a prefabricated straight pipe. The DPF is basically what it says on the tin, a filter. Filters get clogged and blocked. There are three ways to unblock it somewhat – 1 the ECU runs the fuel mixture lean raising the exhaust temperature thus burning the deposits off (kinda fighting the EGR isn’t it! Are ECU’s Bi-Polar?) this is referred to as active re-generation. Two, is “Passive regeneration” caused by sustained higher speed driving which increases exhaust gas temperatures anyway and helps burn of the carbon and soot deposits. Often there is a dash indicator light that either is happening or needs to happen. Three, delete it completely and replace the pipe with one without a pesky filter in it.

Why Disable EGR and Delete DPF?

EGR valves being in the exhaust line get clogged up with soot. This means that over time they might not seat properly causing them to remain partially open all of the time. The ECU cannot compensate for this scenario, the result is poor performance which invariably results in higher than necessary fuel consumption – the driver compensates with a heavier foot, or the ECU miss reads the excessive exhaust gasses as a too rich fuel mixture and sets the engine to run lean possibly resulting in burnt valves and other engine damage if left un checked or more commonly un-noticed until it’s too late.

That’s one of the reasons.

We have an “engine”, we filter its “air” to be as “clean” as possible without restricting the “flow” rate. Then the turbo compresses it to get more clean air into the combustion chamber – this creates heat so we “Inter or After Cool” it further increasing its density and clean burning potential and then the ECU meticulously meters the fuel quantity and precisely times its injection relative to that charge air – and then “Opps” all that’s out the proverbial window and we mix in some sooty old exhaust gasses into it saving some trees. I don’t buy it.

EGR disabling and DPF delete in my opinion do the following.

Exhaust gasses instead of polluting the inlet manifold charge can be used to drive the turbo more efficiently. Allowing that space the dirty exhaust gas once took to be replaced with clean charge air resulting in a more powerful cleaner overall burn. The DPF no longer restricts the exhaust gas flow robbing the engine of power thus reducing spool up time and improving throttle response. You get the added bonus of not filling the inlet manifold up with carbon and soot as well as not having your engine oil turn jet black after 1,000K’s (My oil is still transparent and what I’d call clean after 10,000Ks) this wasn’t the case before I blanked off the EGR.

I agree that under lab conditions and on a relatively new engine (less than 50,000k) then EGR and DPF are great environmental solutions however I also believe they become counterproductive as the vehicle ages and the kilometres pile on add the fact that manufactures are under an immense amount of pressure to conform to the views of environmentalists and environmental concerns and legislation from all over the world. “At The Point & Time Of Sale”

If you intend to keep your vehicle for an extended period of time, (in the hundreds of thousands of kilometres) then ask yourself what is more efficient or environmentally friendly in the big picture? Keeping my car for half a million kilometres with a risk of maybe higher emissions some times? Or replace it for a complete new one. Kind of like Prius syndrome “The most efficient, inefficiently manufactured car in the world.”

TL;DR

For those that didn’t read all of the above the long and short is – Blank EGR and DPF delete equals better performance, better throttle response (read more fun) cleaner internals and longer engine life.

It might be slightly better for the environment as well.

Maybe.

IMHO of course.

[Ahnsahn]

TL;DR

For those that didn’t read all of the above the long and short is – Blank EGR and DPF delete equals better performance, better throttle response (read more fun) cleaner internals and longer engine life.

It might be slightly better for the environment as well.

Maybe.

IMHO of course.

Thank you for the excellent narrative!

I believe this to be very useful to those of us who look to keep our engines in their best performance modes for the long haul.

When you did this procedure at ~ 60K km, wasn't your vehicle still under warranty? This won't void the warranty?

[culicine]

TL;DR

For those that didn’t read all of the above the long and short is – Blank EGR and DPF delete equals better performance, better throttle response (read more fun) cleaner internals and longer engine life.

It might be slightly better for the environment as well.

Maybe.

IMHO of course.

Thank you for the excellent narrative!

I believe this to be very useful to those of us who look to keep our engines in their best performance modes for the long haul.

When you did this procedure at ~ 60K km, wasn't your vehicle still under warranty? This won't void the warranty?

and do those mod explain the huge gobs of black smoke blown out by the odd pickup. Most of them look like they are modified. Of is this due to poor fuelling / piggyback chips etc.

[Ahnsahn]

I believe this to be very useful to those of us who look to keep our engines in their best performance modes for the long haul.

When you did this procedure at ~ 60K km, wasn't your vehicle still under warranty? This won't void the warranty?

and do those mod explain the huge gobs of black smoke blown out by the odd pickup. Most of them look like they are modified. Of is this due to poor fuelling / piggyback chips etc.

Good question to put to PomThai, though I would suspect what you're seeing are the results of poor fuelling, bad installed mods / piggyback chips etc.