Dogs Chasing Frogs In Phuket

[Ausladyinpatong]

My 10 month old puppy loves chasing anything but especially frogs. Are the frogs here in Patong as dangerous or at all as dangerous as the Cane Toads in Australia? There seems to be more of them around of late. I haven't caught her eating any frogs... yet, she just seems to want to play with them but I'm a little bit concerned. She is pretty smart but I'm still worried. She was a soi puppy we found and adopted at 7 weeks old so her instincs are great ...but...

Also...we've microchipped her but advice on legal registration in Phuket would be great.

Will happily stay on the forum to exchange advice/info with other pet parents. Best wishes

[fredlk]

Frogs here are harmless, but the toads that puff up excrete a slightly toxic fluid which most dogs know to avoid. If they swallow some they usually throw it up shortly afterwards.

My dogs chase them all the time and carry them around waiting for them to hop so that they can play. Unfortunately some frogs die when getting pulled in 2 directions.

[alfieconn]

I'm with your dog, iv'e never liked the french either !

[isanbirder]

It's natural for puppies to chase things, but they usually know by instinct what is dangerous and what is not. My 6-month-old picked up a desiccated toad corpse this morning, and played with it a bit, but soon found out that it wasn't food! This is part of the learning process.

We have a lot of toads in the garden, which grow plump on flying ants and other insects attracted to lights. The dogs (three in all) leave them strictly alone.

[Naam]

It's natural for puppies to chase things, but they usually know by instinct what is dangerous and what is not. My 6-month-old picked up a desiccated toad corpse this morning, and played with it a bit, but soon found out that it wasn't food! This is part of the learning process.

We have a lot of toads in the garden, which grow plump on flying ants and other insects attracted to lights. The dogs (three in all) leave them strictly alone.

no they don't know what is dangerous! one of my puppies was several days in intensive care because he liked to chase and lick toads from my pond.

[isanbirder]

It's natural for puppies to chase things, but they usually know by instinct what is dangerous and what is not. My 6-month-old picked up a desiccated toad corpse this morning, and played with it a bit, but soon found out that it wasn't food! This is part of the learning process.

We have a lot of toads in the garden, which grow plump on flying ants and other insects attracted to lights. The dogs (three in all) leave them strictly alone.

no they don't know what is dangerous! one of my puppies was several days in intensive care because he liked to chase and lick toads from my pond.

Sorry to hear that, Naam, but I stick to what I said. Nature is sometimes cruel, and your puppy probably wouldn't have survived if it hadn't had a loving owner. The further from Nature dogs are, like pampered pooches in urban environments, the less they would have a chance to survive in 'real life'.

In rural Buriram, most of our dogs, whatever 'breed' they claim, probably have more savvy in the wild than pet urban dogs. Said puppy, which was supposed to be a toy poodle, is a freak..... big feet, long legs, small head, not sure whether it's long-haired or short. Lovely pet, but would make the Dog Show organisers cringe.

[Ausladyinpatong]

Frogs here are harmless, but the toads that puff up excrete a slightly toxic fluid which most dogs know to avoid. If they swallow some they usually throw it up shortly afterwards.

My dogs chase them all the time and carry them around waiting for them to hop so that they can play. Unfortunately some frogs die when getting pulled in 2 directions.

Thanks for the information everyone, sounds like the frogs are in the most danger. We'll watch out for the puffed up toads though. I think it may have been a toad that I saw her with early this morning; big and slow. Though now that I think about it she wasn't actually chasing this particular one, she was just watching it and appeared fascinated by it which was why she hadn't answered my call to come back inside. Maybe it was toxic and she instinctively knew. When she was very small I found her studying a scorpion with similar interest, I removed her from that situation pretty quickly!

[tutsiwarrior]

folks that keep hunting dogs in the countryside usually keep them penned up so's that they don't get into any nasties and that they don't run down the neighbor's sheep and etc...or so's I was told by an old irish friend who was a lifelong farmer in Co Laiose...the dogs ain't no use if they get sick from eatin' frogs and whatnot...they just eat what ye give 'em but they aren't really pets...but he sure did have a twinkle when he talked about his dogs...

ol' uncle Paddy, god rest his soul...I learned lotsa things from him...by analogy just keep your pet dogs inside and away from danger and when out keep them under supervision...

he was an ace water diviner but don't get me started on that... but I can't help it...here he is in the kitchen and I was sceptical and uncle Pad sez: 'tutsi, put yer hand over there as there is water below, go on...and dangle somethin' like you see in the movies...'...tutsi: 'yeah OK so what? I don't see nothin'?...' he then just put his hand gently on my wrist and there was then no control as it just flopped...I jumped back in terror and my wife and Pad's sister, my MiL...let out roar of laughter...and he went back to his tea and 'ho, hum'...a maniac...one of the most memorable instances of my last marriage...or of ever...

but he sure did love his dogs...

Edited April 13, 2012 by tutsiwarrior

[bina]

dogs dont know what is not good for them by instinct; if they live with a pack and run with a pack, they learn from eachother, and some die. and those that learn learn also from trial and error... here the frogs/toads cause the dogs to salivate, and it usually only takes once for a dog to learn... then any other dog with that dog will tend to avoid also, since dogs are curioius and do what their packmates do. which is why it is often easier to train a new pup with an older dog with experience, and why pups learn the same stupid 'bad' behaviors from the older dogs (by watching).

dogs are not instinctively afraid of vipers, as most of us that have had canaani dogs (the israeli equiv. of the issaan village dog) learn... many a dog has lost its life to a viper when sticking its nose in to a hole, bale of hay, under a car to 'see' what that interesting animal is. boxers also, in particular, seem to lose out to vipers here.perhaps cause boxers are super curious and playful dogs with short noses.

BUT, u can teach dogs to avoid snakes, not to play with hedgehogs, etc. HOWEVER:

it means keeping on leash, and /or gated with no free ranging until the dog has learned thoroughly since, like bike chasing, car chasing and cat chasing (all dangerous activities that dogs love to do even after they have lost a an eye or a limb to one), frog /hedgehog football is addictive and the pleasure of the game reinforces the behavior often more then the pain of the touch /spikes in mouth makes them develop avoidance behaviors. go figure.

bina

issaanbirder, the hunting and village dogs are 'taught' by their owners, maybe not in an official training method, but by the 'by the way' thai style, meaning the learning is happening all the time and not as a sort of training program. .. and to be honest, the thai 'by the way' methods are often not positive reinforcment methods nor particularly nice, but involve a rock , a boot in the butt, a shout or a stick... which are just as effective frankly although i personally prefer our more modern and educational methods . i watched how his father handled his group of scruffy village dogs he used for hunting in the 'paa' (fields/forests).... he just moved his head or grunted in their direction and they all responded. these dogs are not pettable, nor very nice at night to strangers. rather like dogs that wre trained in appalachia or other places, before click training or even k-nine corps training was around.

[isanbirder]

I think, bina, that where you're spot on with Thai village dogs is 'young dog learning from older pack member'. My little horror goes out with his mother, and this is probably where the learning takes place. It's a two-hour walk daily, so the learning is probably fairly intensive. Yes, he picks up all sorts of things, corpses if possible, but doesn't actually try to eat them. He does try to eat cowpats, but there I, with my human attitudes, try to stop him.

So far we have scored a mongoose, a rice turtle, crabs, snakes, toads, frogs and the occasional dead bird! But his attention span is in seconds.

[bina]

your little horror is a dog right, not a kid? although kids like the same things that puppies do..)

dogs looooooooooove horse hoof clippings, goat hoof clippings, cowpats, horse shit (nothing like long haired lhasa on your sofa after rolling in fresh horse shit.._; dumpster sludge is especially sought after (we live close to the kibbutz kitchen and they have a food sludge container, it leaks and the two dogs love to roll in it; especially after friday night meat meals....yuuuuummmmmmmy, in the summer its especially luverly) but dead snail, frog, fox shit... anything goes. cat shit is a good one also.

frankly city dogs really lose out on stimulating activities, just sitting around all day watching tv instead of out, hunting vipers, spiders, rolling in things, and hanging out with the dogs from the other side of the tracks, i.e. down by the moshav where alllll the dogs roam outdoors all the time. bad influence but fun.

bina:))

[isanbirder]

A dog at six-months' old should be a little horror if he's not going to become too placid later on. Infuriating, but a delight.

My three dogs have the run of 3 rai of land, and rarely go outside except with me, so they don't have a lot of contact with other dogs.

[F1fanatic]

Going a bit off topic here (sorry), but the first time one of my dogs (that I brought with me from the UK) saw a cobra he barked madly and was getting far too close.

I couldn't do anything (other than have a nervous breakdown!) as the cobra was reared up and if I entered the picture would have 'struck'. Eventually he realised that my 'alpha' dog (previously a soi dog) was not getting close and, thank God, backed away.

Now when he sees a cobra he has learned to bark, but keep his distance. I'm sure its not instinct, but rather taught by either the mother, or other dogs.

I agree about hedgehogs Bina - a dog I had in the UK used to kill them , even though he always got hurt in the process.

Edited April 20, 2012 by F1fanatic

[tutsiwarrior]

folks that keep hunting dogs in the countryside usually keep them penned up so's that they don't get into any nasties and that they don't run down the neighbor's sheep and etc...or so's I was told by an old irish friend who was a lifelong farmer in Co Laiose...the dogs ain't no use if they get sick from eatin' frogs and whatnot...they just eat what ye give 'em but they aren't really pets...but he sure did have a twinkle when he talked about his dogs...

ol' uncle Paddy, god rest his soul...I learned lotsa things from him...by analogy just keep your pet dogs inside and away from danger and when out keep them under supervision...

he was an ace water diviner but don't get me started on that... but I can't help it...here he is in the kitchen and I was sceptical and uncle Pad sez: 'tutsi, put yer hand over there as there is water below, go on...and dangle somethin' like you see in the movies...'...tutsi: 'yeah OK so what? I don't see nothin'?...' he then just put his hand gently on my wrist and there was then no control as it just flopped...I jumped back in terror and my wife and Pad's sister, my MiL...let out roar of laughter...and he went back to his tea and 'ho, hum'...a maniac...one of the most memorable instances of my last marriage...or of ever...

but he sure did love his dogs...

and then there were the 'fairie circles' where the fairies came out and danced; basically a circle in a country hedgerow that no one had ever planted...and I said: 'Pad, d'ye really believe that?...' and he said: 'oh, yeah...but ye can't see 'em as they don't usually reveal themselves...'

and then we made an agreement that I would come to the farm in Co Laoise (about 50 miles south of Dublin with 30 hectares and a 200 y.o. farm house where my ex-wife was born and lived until she was 5 y.o.) and that we would go shootin' with the dogs and then at midnight I could try and sneak up on the fairies while they were dancin' and take some photos...but it never happened as he died suddenly from a heart attack...one of my biggest regrets that I never managed to visit...he was quite a man...

Edited April 22, 2012 by tutsiwarrior

[isanbirder]

A dog at six-months' old should be a little horror if he's not going to become too placid later on. Infuriating, but a delight.

My three dogs have the run of 3 rai of land, and rarely go outside except with me, so they don't have a lot of contact with other dogs.

One thing which I think is quite important, even in the sticks, is that dogs should be well socialised with other dogs. Yesterday, my horror, his mother, and a visiting dog of much the same size (which may become permanent; see other thread) were out walking when we met a farmer with two dogs at least twice the size of mine. My two socialised immediately; the visitor wouldn't come near the strange dogs, and in fact we lost him altogether. I wasn't particularly worried, because I thought he knew his way back to my house, and sure enough, we met him on the way back.

I put this in because I think my previous post may have given the wrong impression.