Thai Cabinet Approves Ban On Imports Of Used Vehicles

[wolf5370]

I suppose this will effect someone coming to Thailand to retire. As I understand it a retiree could (up until now) bring in all his belongings, furniture etc including one car, all tax free proving it was within six months of the retiree's visa stamp. Now will the car be excluded, not even permitted if one wanted to pay the Tax?

Also are the Taksin haters late risers as I read every post and did not see anyone blaming Taksin for this latest proposed law!

As you understand it wrong a retiree cannot bring stuff in free. Thai wife yes working here yes, retiree no.

Am I missing out on something here? Are you suggesting that my Thai wife (we've been married five years) can import my car free from the UK, (which I bought six years ago)?

No. If your wife has lived abroad for at least a year, she can bring in her second hand stuff import tax free. My wife did that - we lived in the UK for over a decade and when we moved back here we shipped clothes and personal possessions - including a safe - back with us, in her name. Though we came here several years back, we left stuff in our old home and in storage - we shipped it last year after selling the house (she had been in the UK working on a contract for two years with regular short trios home, so still qualified). This is quite legal. There are rules as to what you can bring (and cars are excluded I believe - as are games strangely! - and many other things, like alcohol - so no to the wine collection). Just needs the correct paperwork.

[wolf5370]

That's easy. People underestimate the underground economy here and the percentage it represents. Scamming foreigners out of their money. Foreigners buying/building houses for in-laws and wives and cannot have their name on the property. At the slightest whim the foreigner can be thrown out of the house they expected to retire or just live in and many are dumb enough to repeat the same thing. Not to mention the pros that have multiple boyfriends abroad collect huge sums of money. These are thousands of men bringing thousands of dollars, pounds, etc into the country. All this cash feeds this economy.

I thought getting a usufruct (basically a life estate in a piece of real estate) from your in-laws or wife when you're buying/building a house for them protected foreigners pretty well, Markaew.

A usufruct gives its holder the right to possess and use a piece of real estate any way he/she wants as long as the usufruct holder is alive. I think it's about the same as a life estate under English law. When the usufruct holder dies, though, the usufruct disappears and the property is then held outright by its Thai owners -- as though the usufruct had never existed. That's the way it was explained to me, anyhow. Also that they are easy to do and the holder's rights are clear under Thai law.

So if a falang is married to a Thai woman and has children with her, she can buy a house and give the husband a usufruct interest in the house. It's a one page form at the Land Office, I think. The falang husband is protected while he lives, and when he dies, the usufruct disappears. The house then ends up owned outright by his wife, and she can leave it to the children, sell it, or do whatever with it.

If I'm missing something, or if I've got usufructs wrong, I'd appreciate any comments.

Not quite safe that way - in the past there have been cases during divorce where USUFRUCT between husband and wife have been considered part of the household estate and basically voided in the devorce as the land set aside as estate (which must then either be sold or go to the Thai). The safest way to do a USUFRUCT this way is to include a third party (a child is OK, but someone trusted that lives abroad is OK too - say an sibling of the non-Thai) this then stops it being part of the houshold estate (as it would affect the USUFRUCT rights of a third party).

Also, land can still be sold (and bought of course) whilst under USUFRUCT but the USUFRUCT goes with it. There may be issues with land that is below Nor Sor 3 as the government can take back the land as it is "loaned" rather than owned - this is usually farm land, though ex-farmland that sites a home without a chanote (or at least measured and registered NS3) would be unsafe and USUFRUCT could be disolved there too as the owner (Thai Gov.) would not have been the signee.

Note: The non-Thai can own the house anyway (legally registered) just not the land. It is the land that is USUFRUCT NOT the house - but all buildings thereon would be covered as would any produce of the land (that is what USUFRUCT were designed for - farmers protecting their produce when leasing land that is not their's by ownership).

Edited April 24, 2012 by wolf5370

[wolf5370]

Therefore, the only way is: Drive a junk!

A few years ago I was working at a Thai University. Rather than fight for parking inside, I used to park on a grass verge just outside a back gate that was next to the building I was in - very convenient and almost always space to park. My car is a battered 20 year old Mitsu Lancer. Some students asked me what I used to drive at home. I told them the truth, I had a company car - and new Jag S Type V8 and the Mrs had a new Dodge. One asked me in front of the others, "You are a farang. You have lots of money. Why do you drive that car?". Apart from the stereotypical farang=loads-of-cash quip, I explained that in the year I had owned the car, it had been hit 5 times whilst parked (legally and safely) and twice while I sat in it stationary - once by a careening motorbike that just drove then length of the road straight into the back of me while I sat at lights and once by a genius that decided to overtake at a cross-junction on the wrong side of the road when I was already halfway turned to the right (i.e. he hit me broadside after pulling out two cars behind me, in the right hand lane of a 3 lane road - turn filter lane), at a cross-junction when I was turing right with indication and a clear road). Why would I want a nice shiney new car here - I would be petrified of leaving my driveway!

Edited April 24, 2012 by wolf5370

[merlen10002]

I spent 50 years in the motor trade in Australia, buying and selling new and used cars with some very big motor dealers, and being a motor dealer with my own dealership, I know a lot about the importing of used cars from other countries, Australia went through this and now dealers can only import used cars that are sold new in Australia, the problems with importing used cars from another country and a model or type of car that is not sold in the country is many, the main one is parts, if the imported car has an accident or needs a replacement part, no dealer in that country will carry parts for a car not sold new in that country, to get parts from an overseas country is a huge problem some times taking months or not getting parts at all,

the imported car would bought overseas for lot less than a similar type of car, size and age, that could be bought for in the country it is being imported to, if you try to sell the imported car the dealers will pay less than they can buy another one from overseas, that means a huge loss if you sell the car, making the car almost unsaleable,

another big problem is stolen cars or Cut & Shut cars, Cut & Shut is when two cars are damaged, one with a front end and one with a rear end damage, the two are cut in half and the two good ends put together to make one car, insurance in Australia is very difficult to get on imported second hand cars, don't know about about here,

most people would not know what they were buying with a used car, most people think they know about cars because just owning a car makes them experts but that is far from the facts.

I would not buy a second hand car that is not sold new in any country, there are a lot more problems but this just a few.

Great post, Merlen. Very informative.

That may apply for dealers, but for personal importers in Australia you cannot import a second hand car for a model that was sold in Australia (and locally available). You can only import and register a car if it was not a locally available model (ie sold new from the dealers). Unless the car is more than 15 years old, then it is exempt from this rule.

I fail to see why the government would care if spare parts are hard to find...seems like not their problem if it's your choice of car. The rule above though (for personal imports) protects the local second hand market of locally delivered models.

This post is wrong, private people can import any car of any age, the only age rule is a car over 30 years are free of import duty, 10% GST and Luxury tax may apply, the Luxury tax is 33% for cars over $AUD 57,466.00

Cars under 30 year old must pay duty at 5%, of the customs value, plus GST at 10%,

Other cost, the car must be made to comply with Australian Compliance laws, this can be expensive, especialy Air conditioners, seat belts, and a lot more, even the hight of the head lights from the ground, most cars from other countries would not comply to Australian law, not Thailand for sure,

This is from the Australian Custom and Border Protection Service

I email them and this is their reply so it is correct.

[ericjt]

I thought getting a usufruct (basically a life estate in a piece of real estate) from your in-laws or wife when you're buying/building a house for them protected foreigners pretty well, Markaew.

A usufruct gives its holder the right to possess and use a piece of real estate any way he/she wants as long as the usufruct holder is alive. I think it's about the same as a life estate under English law. When the usufruct holder dies, though, the usufruct disappears and the property is then held outright by its Thai owners -- as though the usufruct had never existed. That's the way it was explained to me, anyhow. Also that they are easy to do and the holder's rights are clear under Thai law.

So if a falang is married to a Thai woman and has children with her, she can buy a house and give the husband a usufruct interest in the house. It's a one page form at the Land Office, I think. The falang husband is protected while he lives, and when he dies, the usufruct disappears. The house then ends up owned outright by his wife, and she can leave it to the children, sell it, or do whatever with it.

If I'm missing something, or if I've got usufructs wrong, I'd appreciate any comments.

Not quite safe that way - in the past there have been cases during divorce where USUFRUCT between husband and wife have been considered part of the household estate and basically voided in the devorce as the land set aside as estate (which must then either be sold or go to the Thai). The safest way to do a USUFRUCT this way is to include a third party (a child is OK, but someone trusted that lives abroad is OK too - say an sibling of the non-Thai) this then stops it being part of the houshold estate (as it would affect the USUFRUCT rights of a third party).

Also, land can still be sold (and bought of course) whilst under USUFRUCT but the USUFRUCT goes with it. There may be issues with land that is below Nor Sor 3 as the government can take back the land as it is "loaned" rather than owned - this is usually farm land, though ex-farmland that sites a home without a chanote (or at least measured and registered NS3) would be unsafe and USUFRUCT could be disolved there too as the owner (Thai Gov.) would not have been the signee.

Note: The non-Thai can own the house anyway (legally registered) just not the land. It is the land that is USUFRUCT NOT the house - but all buildings thereon would be covered as would any produce of the land (that is what USUFRUCT were designed for - farmers protecting their produce when leasing land that is not their's by ownership).

Thanks for this clear, informative, and very helpful post, Wolf5370.

I didn't know about the transferability of usufructs, and didn't even think about title forms below Chanotte. From what you say, usufructs are transferable. That's one question answered. We should worry if we are trying to use them with lower forms of title than Chanotte. I didn't even think about that one. And the information you provided about what divorce courts can/might do to a usufruct without a third party added was especially helpful.

There's a lot of baloney sometimes on forums, but it's posts like yours that make them valuable. Thanks!

Edited April 24, 2012 by ericjt

[wolf5370]

I thought getting a usufruct (basically a life estate in a piece of real estate) from your in-laws or wife when you're buying/building a house for them protected foreigners pretty well, Markaew.

A usufruct gives its holder the right to possess and use a piece of real estate any way he/she wants as long as the usufruct holder is alive. I think it's about the same as a life estate under English law. When the usufruct holder dies, though, the usufruct disappears and the property is then held outright by its Thai owners -- as though the usufruct had never existed. That's the way it was explained to me, anyhow. Also that they are easy to do and the holder's rights are clear under Thai law.

So if a falang is married to a Thai woman and has children with her, she can buy a house and give the husband a usufruct interest in the house. It's a one page form at the Land Office, I think. The falang husband is protected while he lives, and when he dies, the usufruct disappears. The house then ends up owned outright by his wife, and she can leave it to the children, sell it, or do whatever with it.

If I'm missing something, or if I've got usufructs wrong, I'd appreciate any comments.

Not quite safe that way - in the past there have been cases during divorce where USUFRUCT between husband and wife have been considered part of the household estate and basically voided in the devorce as the land set aside as estate (which must then either be sold or go to the Thai). The safest way to do a USUFRUCT this way is to include a third party (a child is OK, but someone trusted that lives abroad is OK too - say an sibling of the non-Thai) this then stops it being part of the houshold estate (as it would affect the USUFRUCT rights of a third party).

Also, land can still be sold (and bought of course) whilst under USUFRUCT but the USUFRUCT goes with it. There may be issues with land that is below Nor Sor 3 as the government can take back the land as it is "loaned" rather than owned - this is usually farm land, though ex-farmland that sites a home without a chanote (or at least measured and registered NS3) would be unsafe and USUFRUCT could be disolved there too as the owner (Thai Gov.) would not have been the signee.

Note: The non-Thai can own the house anyway (legally registered) just not the land. It is the land that is USUFRUCT NOT the house - but all buildings thereon would be covered as would any produce of the land (that is what USUFRUCT were designed for - farmers protecting their produce when leasing land that is not their's by ownership).

Thanks for this clear, informative, and very helpful post, Wolf5370.

I didn't know about the transferability of usufructs, and didn't even think about title forms below Chanotte. From what you say, usufructs are transferable. That's one question answered. We should worry if we are trying to use them with lower forms of title than Chanotte. I didn't even think about that one. And the information you provided about what divorce courts can/might do to a usufruct without a third party added was especially helpful.

There's a lot of baloney sometimes on forums, but it's posts like yours that make them valuable. Thanks!

Not so much that they are transferable in themselves, more that the land ownsership is, but the USUFRUCT stays in situ until it is ended (by death or whatever finalization clause is enacted, say expirey of lease, or overturned by a court etc). USUFRUCTS can be disolved on request from all parties of course (though not enforced from one party without court order), but can't be reassigned without I believe - I think they need to be cancelled and restarted. They are often done at time of land transfer too rather than a any time, though I think that is just prefered (because they are basically free - though a small admin charge and any lawyer (if you think you need one) charges may apply - so can be included in the same paperwork).

[Yeppe]

Why does the Mini Cooper S cost BHT 3.0 mil in Thailand but in Europe it costs BHT 1.0 mil??? This must mean that THAIS ARE VERY RICH! Amaizing Thailand - once again.....

[transam]

Why does the Mini Cooper S cost BHT 3.0 mil in Thailand but in Europe it costs BHT 1.0 mil??? This must mean that THAIS ARE VERY RICH! Amaizing Thailand - once again.....

But, who would be daft enough to ride in a compact that costs 3 Mil.

Must admit l smile when l see one.

[raro]

didn't bother to read through all 11 pages, so maybe someone said it before...this just makes official what has been practice for the last couple of years. to import you needed a license issued by the Ministry of Transport and no such license has been issued for about 5 years.

[losworld]

what an idiotic gov't... once again a thaksin screws the working class of thailand...

[TheCure]

Why does the Mini Cooper S cost BHT 3.0 mil in Thailand but in Europe it costs BHT 1.0 mil??? This must mean that THAIS ARE VERY RICH! Amaizing Thailand - once again.....

But, who would be daft enough to ride in a compact that costs 3 Mil.

Must admit l smile when l see one.

The same applies to all cars in Thailand.

[transam]

Why does the Mini Cooper S cost BHT 3.0 mil in Thailand but in Europe it costs BHT 1.0 mil??? This must mean that THAIS ARE VERY RICH! Amaizing Thailand - once again.....

But, who would be daft enough to ride in a compact that costs 3 Mil.

Must admit l smile when l see one.

The same applies to all cars in Thailand.

Not really, IF you do your homework.

[morocco]

Do these laws mean that if I move to Thailand from Cambodia that I can't bring my motorcycle and register it in Thailand?

[HardenedSoul]

Of course, if one wants to bring a cherished 2-seat convertible, they could get a Thai national living in the country where the car's located to have it registered in their name and then, after 18 months, it can be imported into Thaiand for next to nothing in the way of import duties.

[StarFighter]

motorcycles, sedans, pick-ups and vehicles that carry more than seven passengers.

So what else is left? Is Thailand the only country in the world with such a bizar law ?

Well they helpfully left sportscars out of the list...

Or did they? I noted that " Sedan "clause too as I was just about to import my car from Mlaysia , which is a two door, what I know as a coupe, having just procured the necessary one year visa and all the other load of paper which changed from phone call to phone call.

. So are two door" coupes "permitted?? I think that is a translation error and they mean all passenger cars.

Is the new law in effect or when will it be? I swear I really was about t omake the trip to Bangkok to apply for the permit as is required.

BTW This car is worth t about $ 2500 USD maybe, in the US, on a really good day.

In Malaysia valued at about $ 7000 USD, (imported duty free under MMSH ) In Thailand can you believe -valued $ at 27, 000 USD on the temporary import assessment.

This is a deal breaker with Thailand , I'm afraid. Had it with the inconsistencies, the utter.... well can't really say what I think due to forum rules but suffice to write I deeply regret the money I've invested.

Edited May 6, 2012 by StarFighter

[StarFighter]

The US has traditionally viewed east Asia as a grouping of 'developing economies' including Japan up through the 1980s. As such, they have eschewed placing high tarrifs on their imports because the idea is they couldn't pose any real threat to the domestic market anyway. But, in the late 70s, Japan started making really big motorcycles, Honda Goldwing being the most notable but all 4 of the main Japanese bike makers went up into the 1000cc + category. Harley Davidson, the last American bike maker, was on the verge of bankruptcy and people lobbied congress to pass a special big-bike tarrif on imports over 700cc. This tarriff was to be about 100% of the bike's cost. As a result, the Japanese scrapped a lot of their big air cooled bikes and came out with a whole new line of water-cooled 700cc bikes (water cooled bikes can produce way more power than air cooled because they run cooler and can use higher compression rations). This got them through the life of the law (it was a temporary measure that expired in 4 years, I believe). But many people complained that a 100% tarriff was outrageous, even for a protectionist measure. Here, they are routinely slapping %150-%300+ tarriffs on imports. Want a new BMW 5 series? Good, you're going to pay for 4 of them and give the other three to the benevolent government. Yet, somehow, this place continues to chug along! I have an MBA and am earning a PhD in International Business right now and every single thing I have ever learned in business school says that Thailand could not possibly survive economically, and still it does. If I could figure out how, I might well have the subject for my dissertation.

Simple. Sex sells.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

It is not legal to privately own a helicopter or plane in Thailand.

I know four farang in Pattaya that own private planes.

[Dorian232]

Japanese car dealers are advertising even on this web site cheap second hand car exports to Thailand, I really want to import a Jaguar from Japan is there anyway it can be done legally

[cowslip]

Why does the Mini Cooper S cost BHT 3.0 mil in Thailand but in Europe it costs BHT 1.0 mil??? This must mean that THAIS ARE VERY RICH! Amaizing Thailand - once again.....

An non-suqitur that would seem to indicate you are completely oblivious to the situation in Thailand re- imported vehicles and have no idea on the set up of rich and poor in Thai society.

[StarFighter]

I am in contact just now with a person in Dept of Foreign Trade MInistry of Commerce and she is assuring me this ban concerns parts only.

I understand her English perfectly but still she may not understand my very direct queries, however she is asking me to send copies of passport / visa docs so as to ascertain my eligibilty get it all in orrder, so I am assuming, on hope, I can still get this done. It isn't horribly expensive on an older car that was owned for one year within my own country - AND having been here a certain amount of time under B visa , etc WP one year etc etc

.. and it's already here on a temp import, ( 6 months per year allowed. )

BTW She expressed disappointment as to the govt policies on foreigner investment,

Please pm me if you would like the contact number.

Edited May 11, 2012 by StarFighter

[pipo1000]

If ALL foreigners would leave this country where you get screwed cheated and robbed my every government department that sees a chance the country would be in big problems loosing a lot of money but they know we are a big community but they also know we don't want to give up our lives here. Would actually be great to see everyone moving to a better country close to here and there are better countries. I for sure am looking at possibilities being screwed so many times but one foreigner moving does not impress and most foreigners simply just like talking and complaining here in this forum and not move ...................

Perhaps letting Taksin return without any penalty will help the Taksin haters move

Myanmar.

Myanmar it is .... many ppl I know are more then ready to go.... Better educated ppl, friendly like 20 years ago in Thailand, honest....and the beaches are a thousand times more beautiful like here.... Last ppl switch of lights in Thailand please

If they are so ready to go then why are they still here,it's only a short trip.

[pipo1000]

I'm sure all this will have to stop if the ASEAN thing gets going........ you can't have individual states using protectionism in a common market.

Let's hope some other countries point out how stupid the Thais are looking here. In the longer term they are just building up a heap of problems for when the ASEAN borders start coming down.

Asean borders coming down?For sure that will not be in this lifetime.

[Dorian232]

I am in contact just now with a person in Dept of Foreign Trade MInistry of Commerce and she is assuring me this ban concerns parts only.

I understand her English perfectly but still she may not understand my very direct queries, however she is asking me to send copies of passport / visa docs so as to ascertain my eligibilty get it all in orrder, so I am assuming, on hope, I can still get this done. It isn't horribly expensive on an older car that was owned for one year within my own country - AND having been here a certain amount of time under B visa , etc WP one year etc etc

.. and it's already here on a temp import, ( 6 months per year allowed. )

BTW She expressed disappointment as to the govt policies on foreigner investment,

Please pm me if you would like the contact number.

Yes please could yopu give me the number, and any other data you have got on importing a second hand car

Dorian

[simple1]

I suppose this will effect someone coming to Thailand to retire. As I understand it a retiree could (up until now) bring in all his belongings, furniture etc including one car, all tax free proving it was within six months of the retiree's visa stamp. Now will the car be excluded, not even permitted if one wanted to pay the Tax?

Also are the Taksin haters late risers as I read every post and did not see anyone blaming Taksin for this latest proposed law!

Only tax free if you are a Thai citizen living abroad for more than twelve months. Foreigners have to pay tax based upon accessed value by Customs, Car was around 200% tax

[Dorian232]

I am in contact just now with a person in Dept of Foreign Trade MInistry of Commerce and she is assuring me this ban concerns parts only.

I understand her English perfectly but still she may not understand my very direct queries, however she is asking me to send copies of passport / visa docs so as to ascertain my eligibilty get it all in orrder, so I am assuming, on hope, I can still get this done. It isn't horribly expensive on an older car that was owned for one year within my own country - AND having been here a certain amount of time under B visa , etc WP one year etc etc

.. and it's already here on a temp import, ( 6 months per year allowed. )

BTW She expressed disappointment as to the govt policies on foreigner investment,

Please pm me if you would like the contact number.

Please can you give me the details == are you progressing with an import

[transam]

It is not legal to privately own a helicopter or plane in Thailand.

I know four farang in Pattaya that own private planes.

Did l see one embedded in the side of a Supermarket. ?

[raro]

Do these laws mean that if I move to Thailand from Cambodia that I can't bring my motorcycle and register it in Thailand?

yes.

Of course, if one wants to bring a cherished 2-seat convertible, they could get a Thai national living in the country where the car's located to have it registered in their name and then, after 18 months, it can be imported into Thaiand for next to nothing in the way of import duties.

AFAIK this rule is for foreigners and Thais alike.

Only tax free if you are a Thai citizen living abroad for more than twelve months. Foreigners have to pay tax based upon accessed value by Customs, Car was around 200% tax

...whereas I must admit I never had the case with a returning Thai citizen.

I am in contact just now with a person in Dept of Foreign Trade MInistry of Commerce and she is assuring me this ban concerns parts only.

I understand her English perfectly but still she may not understand my very direct queries, however she is asking me to send copies of passport / visa docs so as to ascertain my eligibilty get it all in orrder, so I am assuming, on hope, I can still get this done. It isn't horribly expensive on an older car that was owned for one year within my own country - AND having been here a certain amount of time under B visa , etc WP one year etc etc

.. and it's already here on a temp import, ( 6 months per year allowed. )

BTW She expressed disappointment as to the govt policies on foreigner investment,

Please pm me if you would like the contact number.

Would be much interested to learn about the outcome. Please report back

[pipo1000]

[

Only tax free if you are a Thai citizen living abroad for more than twelve months. Foreigners have to pay tax based upon accessed value by Customs, Car was around 200% tax

...whereas I must admit I never had the case with a returning Thai citizen.

I recall there is a member of this forum who is a Thai citizen who lived in the US for many years and had to abandon his idea of bringing his US owned car over when he moved back to Thailand.Reason was that no tax is to the discretion of the customs offficer,and we all know what that means.

[HardenedSoul]

Of course, if one wants to bring a cherished 2-seat convertible, they could get a Thai national living in the country where the car's located to have it registered in their name and then, after 18 months, it can be imported into Thaiand for next to nothing in the way of import duties.

AFAIK this rule is for foreigners and Thais alike.

Well I made enquiries of an import agent to bring a classic BMW Z1 I've owned for 13 years to Thailand. They quoted me 2.5m baht.

The car's 22 years old and, with the exception of Japan, it was never sold in Asia so I asked the agent what she based the duty on; she said on "how nice it would look to customs minus left-hand drive and no air con".

She did add, however, that I could sell it for nearly double that.

I checked the appropriate government website; did the calculations based on the vehicle's age, engine size etc, added the duty etc and got far, far less than 2.5m so I'm thinking the rules are actually nothing more than suggestions.

[pipo1000]

Of course, if one wants to bring a cherished 2-seat convertible, they could get a Thai national living in the country where the car's located to have it registered in their name and then, after 18 months, it can be imported into Thaiand for next to nothing in the way of import duties.

AFAIK this rule is for foreigners and Thais alike.

Well I made enquiries of an import agent to bring a classic BMW Z1 I've owned for 13 years to Thailand. They quoted me 2.5m baht.

The car's 22 years old and, with the exception of Japan, it was never sold in Asia so I asked the agent what she based the duty on; she said on "how nice it would look to customs minus left-hand drive and no air con".

She did add, however, that I could sell it for nearly double that.

I checked the appropriate government website; did the calculations based on the vehicle's age, engine size etc, added the duty etc and got far, far less than 2.5m so I'm thinking the rules are actually nothing more than suggestions.

This is the one I had to leave behind ,with pain in the heart.