Thai Govt Urged To Defer Wage Hike Until 2015

[tlansford]

- deleted text , quote limits -

broken promise ??

Look again at who wants to delay the increase.

Look again at who is delaying the increase.

explain it to me, hellodolly, and please go into detail. Who is delaying the increase and how is it being delayed.

Go ahead and start by explaining the current status and implementation plan, then feel free to move to the description about whom is delaying that plan.

The Government is delaying the implication of the plan they spend their time trying to bring there boss back. They made a promise and all they have to do is forget white washing there leader and concentrate on enacting the law for the whole country that they used for the seven provinces they have already delivered on.

It is not rocket science they have already figured out how to do it legally and are just dragging their feet.

If you don't believe me explain how it happened in seven provinces already. They know how.

Or are you trying to say they have finally figured it out that all will not be rosie if they deliver on their promise.

What are your thoughts on the field hands getting 300 Baht a day do you think they will under the present Government?

Dear Hellodolly,

You just state that the government is delaying the plan, but you don't say how or provide any evidence. You don't bother to acknowledge that the first phase has been implemented across the entire country. You just launch into the knee-jerk "bring-back Thaksin" rhetoric.

But there is no "foot-dragging" by the government. The plan was set back in the fall, now the first stage has been implemented. The second stage will be implemented in Jan 2013 - that is the plan, period - no foot dragging, no "white-washing" distractions, etc.

I remember well how the TVF literally "howled" about the min wage when it was first proposed. The common line was that it was a stupid idea, would kill jobs, and especially if it was raised all at once.

Now the plan is being implemented, the first step being done. It was delayed 1 quarter due to the flooding and it is being implemented in most of the country in a 2 step increase.

Now TVF is "howling" about the government not keeping its campaign promises. Some are so lame as to not even understand what they read (others much worse than you, BTW) and are claiming that the government is now delaying the increase, when in fact they government is implementing the increase and it is only the opponents to the minimum wage increase who want it delayed.

You said the government "figured it out legally" - well they didn't need to "figure it out" since the process hasn't changed.

Who sets the minimum wage in Thailand? The wage committee, not the government. The workers, the government, and the employers are represented and the wage committee decides. Under the dems, the wages were raised, as you might imagine, minuscule amounts. Now, with the change of the gov'ts position, the minimum wage is being raised in accordance to the PTP's platform.

[tlansford]

BTW, where is the min-wage-in-denial-Buchhotlz? Or has he tired of eating crow lately?

[Skywalker69]

Where is your logic that the government are trying to delay the minimum wage?

The FTI is the government?

How many provinces have 300 bht minimum wage?

It has been delayed until at least next year in the vast majority of provinces.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

How many provinces got a 39.5% increase?

what would happen if you make the same increase in US or European Counties?

[Siam Simon]

Where is your logic that the government are trying to delay the minimum wage?

The FTI is the government?

How many provinces have 300 bht minimum wage?

It has been delayed until at least next year in the vast majority of provinces.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

How many provinces got a 39.5% increase?

what would happen if you make the same increase in US or European Counties?

What would happen if you dropped wages in Europe and the USA to the same levels as blue collar/agriculture industry ones in Thailand?

[tlansford]

Where is your logic that the government are trying to delay the minimum wage?

The FTI is the government?

How many provinces have 300 bht minimum wage?

It has been delayed until at least next year in the vast majority of provinces.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

How many provinces got a 39.5% increase?

what would happen if you make the same increase in US or European Counties?

What is the relevance to apetly's inaccurate characterization of the current minimum wage law in Thailand?

[Buchholz]

Where is your logic that the government are trying to delay the minimum wage?

The FTI is the government?

How many provinces have 300 bht minimum wage?

It has been delayed until at least next year in the vast majority of provinces.

How many provinces got a 39.5% increase?

That's not what they promised.

What percent of their 2 wage-related campaign promises on their election poster have they kept thus far?

0.00%

.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

BTW, where is the min-wage-in-denial-Buchhotlz? Or has he tired of eating crow lately?

No one is eating crow.

Since you seem to have forgotten, you were asked weeks ago to provide a credible news source to back up your earlier claim.

You have still not done so.

And, as yet another reminder, it's still Buchholz.

Should we all start to bastardize your nick so that you can get a clue?

.

[sparebox2]

Food only cost US1 to some extreme UD1.50. 3 meals a day, it is only US4.50 max.

Why would anyone want to set the min wages to a sky rocket US10?

I say US5 would already be sufficient to cover the extreme.

[apetley]

Where is your logic that the government are trying to delay the minimum wage?

The FTI is the government?

How many provinces have 300 bht minimum wage?

It has been delayed until at least next year in the vast majority of provinces.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

How many provinces got a 39.5% increase?

Only 7 provinces got the 300 bht minimum. For all the others it has been delayed, simple as that.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

[Buchholz]

explain it to me, hellodolly, and please go into detail. Who is delaying the increase and how is it being delayed.

Go ahead and start by explaining the current status and implementation plan, then feel free to move to the description about whom is delaying that plan.

The Government is delaying the implication of the plan they spend their time trying to bring there boss back. They made a promise and all they have to do is forget white washing there leader and concentrate on enacting the law for the whole country that they used for the seven provinces they have already delivered on.

It is not rocket science they have already figured out how to do it legally and are just dragging their feet.

If you don't believe me explain how it happened in seven provinces already. They know how.

Or are you trying to say they have finally figured it out that all will not be rosie if they deliver on their promise.

What are your thoughts on the field hands getting 300 Baht a day do you think they will under the present Government?

Dear Hellodolly,

You just state that the government is delaying the plan, but you don't say how or provide any evidence. You don't bother to acknowledge that the first phase has been implemented across the entire country.

There were not supposed to be any "phases" at all.

There was supposed to be a nation-wide increase to 300 baht daily minimum wage to take place immediately following the election.

The government, after the election, only then started back-tracking on their pledge and morphed their scheme to then change to these "phases".

Very likely this was due to the realities of such a move as expressed by the professionals.

Thailand may lose Bt100 billion per year in foreign direct investment FDI if the new government immediately raises the daily minimum wage to Bt300, the Joint Standing Committee on Commerce, Industry and Banking JSCCIB says.

http://thailand-busi...25#.T5SdqVYyfOs

You can now debate on the motivations of all sides, but at the end of the day... the PTP failed to deliver on their promised timeline. When, or even if, it is implemented nation-wide in 2013.... it'll be years long overdue from what they said to the voters.

.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Buchholz

[xthAi76s]

Can anyone explain in economics terms how there can be a forced minimum wage increase without a corresponding plan for improved efficiency or production to pay for it?

Is the underlying assumption here that the workers who are being paid at or under minimum wage are actually more productive than their pay represents?

It seems that if you have the same productivity, and force a business to pay more, there could be a tendency for the business to just pass the costs onto other entities - customers or any other intermediary between itself and the end consumers...

Edited April 23, 2012 by xthAi76s

[OzMick]

Who sets the minimum wage in Thailand? The wage committee, not the government. The workers, the government, and the employers are represented and the wage committee decides. Under the dems, the wages were raised, as you might imagine, minuscule amounts. Now, with the change of the gov'ts position, the minimum wage is being raised in accordance to the PTP's platform.

You continue with this farce, but want it both ways.

"Who sets the minimum wage in Thailand? The wage committee, not the government."

When you are as aware that 2 sides of the tripartite committee remained fixed in their attitude (labour for, employers against) and the only variable is the govt position. Yet have the hypocritical gall to state in the same breath that " Under the dems, the wages were raised ........... minuscule amounts."

Do you butter both sides of your bread?

[chrisinth]

As a matter of interest, I did a little research this weekend and visited 4 different factories/works (SME's) here up-country to ask what they were paying as minimum wage. 2 x building contractors and 2 x steel workers. The province isn't in the 7 for 300 baht minimum. The average between the 4 was 177 baht a day (based on the lowest paid workers).

Not one of them knew about the supposed 39.5% raise in the minimum wage and consequently are not paying their workers. I have known these people for quite a while now and see no reason for them to lie.

Who is controlling the invigilation of this 39.5% increase?

Edited April 23, 2012 by chrisinth

[Buchholz]

As a matter of interest, I did a little research this weekend and visited 4 different factories/works (SME's) here up-country to ask what they were paying as minimum wage. 2 x building contractors and 2 x steel workers. The province isn't in the 7 for 300 baht minimum. The average between the 4 was 177 baht a day (based on the lowest paid workers).

Not one of them knew about the supposed 39.5% raise in the minimum wage and consequently are not paying their workers. I have known these people for quite a while now and see no reason for them to lie.

Who is controlling the invigilation of this 39.5% increase?

Pheu Thai MP and Labor Minister Padermchai Sasomsap's Department of Labor Protection and Welfare spoke loudly regarding the enforcement in the 7 provinces with the 300 baht minimum, so one can only assume they would be just as vigilant in the provinces with a 39.5% increase.

.

[chrisinth]

As a matter of interest, I did a little research this weekend and visited 4 different factories/works (SME's) here up-country to ask what they were paying as minimum wage. 2 x building contractors and 2 x steel workers. The province isn't in the 7 for 300 baht minimum. The average between the 4 was 177 baht a day (based on the lowest paid workers).

Not one of them knew about the supposed 39.5% raise in the minimum wage and consequently are not paying their workers. I have known these people for quite a while now and see no reason for them to lie.

Who is controlling the invigilation of this 39.5% increase?

Pheu Thai MP and Labor Minister Padermchai Sasomsap's Department of Labor Protection and Welfare spoke loudly regarding the enforcement in the 7 provinces with the 300 baht minimum, so one can only assume they would be just as vigilant in the provinces with a 39.5% increase.

.

Understood, but there is no mention of the 39.5% rise in the other 70 provinces in the article. I also understand that the article is based on enforcing the 300 baht minimum in the stated 7 provinces and not nationwide enforcement.

I was trying to find out when the 39.5% increase statement was issued and what time period it was to be implemented.

[whybother]

Understood, but there is no mention of the 39.5% rise in the other 70 provinces in the article. I also understand that the article is based on enforcing the 300 baht minimum in the stated 7 provinces and not nationwide enforcement.

I was trying to find out when the 39.5% increase statement was issued and what time period it was to be implemented.

http://www.tannetwor...?DataID=1053977

Labor Minister Padernchai Sasomsap said the daily minimum wage hike will be implemented nationwide on April 1.

http://thailand.prd....ide.php?id=6223

The resolution was made by the Cabinet in November 2011, following the decision by the Wage Committee on 17 October 2011. Based on this policy, starting from 1 April 2012, the 300-baht daily minimum wage has been implemented in seven provinces.

... In the remaining 70 provinces, the daily minimum wage has increased by 39.5 percent, but is still lower than 300 baht. The 300-baht rate will become effective in the other 70 provinces on 1 January 2013.

Edited April 23, 2012 by whybother

[Buchholz]

Understood, but there is no mention of the 39.5% rise in the other 70 provinces in the article. I also understand that the article is based on enforcing the 300 baht minimum in the stated 7 provinces and not nationwide enforcement.

I was trying to find out when the 39.5% increase statement was issued and what time period it was to be implemented.

http://www.tannetwor...?DataID=1053977

Labor Minister Padernchai Sasomsap said the daily minimum wage hike will be implemented nationwide on April 1.

I'm all over it, chrisinth. I'll get the problem in your area fixed pronto

Pheu Thai MP and Labor Minister Padermchai Sasomsap

.

[chrisinth]

Understood, but there is no mention of the 39.5% rise in the other 70 provinces in the article. I also understand that the article is based on enforcing the 300 baht minimum in the stated 7 provinces and not nationwide enforcement.

I was trying to find out when the 39.5% increase statement was issued and what time period it was to be implemented.

http://www.tannetwor...?DataID=1053977

Labor Minister Padernchai Sasomsap said the daily minimum wage hike will be implemented nationwide on April 1.

http://thailand.prd....ide.php?id=6223

The resolution was made by the Cabinet in November 2011, following the decision by the Wage Committee on 17 October 2011. Based on this policy, starting from 1 April 2012, the 300-baht daily minimum wage has been implemented in seven provinces.

... In the remaining 70 provinces, the daily minimum wage has increased by 39.5 percent, but is still lower than 300 baht. The 300-baht rate will become effective in the other 70 provinces on 1 January 2013.

Thanks whybother for the links. As the average minimum wage was 153 baht for the province in 2010, and is now 177 baht (average from 4 companies), that would indicate that rise is not being followed. Based on 2010 figures it should be 213 baht; based on now (177 baht) it should be 247 baht.

Edit: Will be interesting to see what the 1st January 2013 will show.

Edited April 23, 2012 by chrisinth

[tlansford]

Where is your logic that the government are trying to delay the minimum wage?

The FTI is the government?

How many provinces have 300 bht minimum wage?

It has been delayed until at least next year in the vast majority of provinces.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

How many provinces got a 39.5% increase?

Only 7 provinces got the 300 bht minimum. For all the others it has been delayed, simple as that.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

which makes it sound like the other 70 provinces had no increase, which is not true.

Many posters just want to slam the PTP. First it was "raise the minimum wage too much too fast is crazy", now it is "look they broke their promise to the voters".

You can't slam the gov't for being right and being wrong.

[tlansford]

Who sets the minimum wage in Thailand? The wage committee, not the government. The workers, the government, and the employers are represented and the wage committee decides. Under the dems, the wages were raised, as you might imagine, minuscule amounts. Now, with the change of the gov'ts position, the minimum wage is being raised in accordance to the PTP's platform.

You continue with this farce, but want it both ways.

"Who sets the minimum wage in Thailand? The wage committee, not the government."

When you are as aware that 2 sides of the tripartite committee remained fixed in their attitude (labour for, employers against) and the only variable is the govt position. Yet have the hypocritical gall to state in the same breath that " Under the dems, the wages were raised ........... minuscule amounts."

Do you butter both sides of your bread?

The government is represented on the wage committee and the wage committee sets the minimum wage. It seems like a good method to bring all the parties together to find an agreement. In the case of the current minimum wage increase, it looks like the wage committee found a good solution, and that solution is being implemented. The election promise is being fulfilled.

These are the facts. The government does not set the rate, the wage committee does.

Of course when the government sided with business 100%, the rise in the minimum was minuscule. Some here want to claim that the business lobby is not aligned with the democrats... History doesn't show that to be the case.

Other posters have claimed that the gov't just needs to pass the legislation and it is done. Not true.

You want to say that acknowledging the above facts and events is to have it both ways, that is up to you, but I don't agree.

[GarryP]

I do not believe for a minute that many of those companies, which are asking for delays in implementation, cannot afford to pay the increase. The bottom line is that they are not prepared to reduce their own profits to benefit the worker. A typical factory worker cannot survive without working OT.

For the smaller companies which are working on much lower profit margins, they need to increase efficiency, and stop employing two people for one person jobs.

[OzMick]

which makes it sound like the other 70 provinces had no increase, which is not true.

Many posters just want to slam the PTP. First it was "raise the minimum wage too much too fast is crazy", now it is "look they broke their promise to the voters".

You can't slam the gov't for being right and being wrong.

Both statements are valid. Raising minimum wages so fast was stupid, but it is what they promised to gain power.

It's just a matter of adjudicating who is the more stupid; PTP for promising instant pay rises and reneging, or their supporters who believed them.

It is certainly more valid than claiming the wages committee set these new wages, but the small increases in the previous government was down to them.

"Who sets the minimum wage in Thailand? The wage committee, not the government...... Under the dems, the wages were raised ......... minuscule amounts.

[Buchholz]

The election promise is being fulfilled.

It hasn't yet and if it does occur in 2013 as they have stated, it'll be years overdue from when they promised.

.

[tlansford]

BTW, where is the min-wage-in-denial-Buchhotlz? Or has he tired of eating crow lately?

No one is eating crow.

Since you seem to have forgotten, you were asked weeks ago to provide a credible news source to back up your earlier claim.

You have still not done so.

And, as yet another reminder, it's still Buchholz.

Should we all start to bastardize your nick so that you can get a clue?

.

You are the one who claimed it wasn't going to happen. The 70 province increase you denied. That 300B would be nation wide in 3 years, not Jan 2013, was your claim.

Rather than produce a link to support your claim, you insist other do so.

Then, you are the one who could not look up the BKK post reference. You are the one who thinks that a top 5 accounting firm doesn't know the facts of the raise.

You are not a serious debater. Just a baiter.

[Buchholz]

BTW, where is the min-wage-in-denial-Buchhotlz? Or has he tired of eating crow lately?

No one is eating crow.

Since you seem to have forgotten, you were asked weeks ago to provide a credible news source to back up your earlier claim.

You have still not done so.

And, as yet another reminder, it's still Buchholz.

Should we all start to bastardize your nick so that you can get a clue?

.

You are the one who claimed it wasn't going to happen. The 70 province increase you denied. That 300B would be nation wide in 3 years, not Jan 2013, was your claim.

Rather than produce a link to support your claim, you insist other do so.

Then, you are the one who could not look up the BKK post reference. You are the one who thinks that a top 5 accounting firm doesn't know the facts of the raise.

You are not a serious debater. Just a baiter.

You have a serious memory lapse from what occurred a month ago.

1. I never claimed it wasn't going to happen.

2. I pointed out earlier in this post

http://www.thaivisa....e/#entry5152524

what was the current status at that time as I knew it based upon the news releases that I did link.

3. You came along in the next post and stated that that was not current and that it had changed. You cited some guy calling himself an anonymous Thailand Business Expert and who worked for some accounting firm as your news source.

4. You were asked then to provide a credible news media source on March 21.

5. We're still waiting for you to do so.

In the intervening month, information came out that the information in 2. above had been updated. This has been from credible news sources and has been posted by others, including myself, negating the need for 5. above.

Anyway, if anyone is interested in separating your BS and memory loss from the reality, the link from last month's "discussion" of it is available on that link.

p.s. good to see your often-repeated claim that you have me on ignore is just more of your tired empty inflammatory rhetoric.

.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Buchholz

[whybother]

which makes it sound like the other 70 provinces had no increase, which is not true.

Many posters just want to slam the PTP. First it was "raise the minimum wage too much too fast is crazy", now it is "look they broke their promise to the voters".

You can't slam the gov't for being right and being wrong.

The government was wrong for promising such a large increase in such a short time, and they are wrong for not delivering what they promised.

Delivering a 39.5% increase now to 70 provinces and the 300 baht in 2013 is not what was promised.

[apetley]

which makes it sound like the other 70 provinces had no increase, which is not true.

Many posters just want to slam the PTP. First it was "raise the minimum wage too much too fast is crazy", now it is "look they broke their promise to the voters".

You can't slam the gov't for being right and being wrong.

Where did I say the govt were both right and wrong?

I said that they have delayed implementing the 300 bht minimum wage in the majority of provinces.

It was a shabby vote buying confidence trick pure and simple.

It should have been implemented nationwide as was implicitly inferred during the election campaign.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

[tlansford]

which makes it sound like the other 70 provinces had no increase, which is not true.

Many posters just want to slam the PTP. First it was "raise the minimum wage too much too fast is crazy", now it is "look they broke their promise to the voters".

You can't slam the gov't for being right and being wrong.

The government was wrong for promising such a large increase in such a short time, and they are wrong for not delivering what they promised.

Delivering a 39.5% increase now to 70 provinces and the 300 baht in 2013 is not what was promised.

"Delivering a 39.5% increase now to 70 provinces and the 300 baht in 2013 is not what was promised."

No, but it was the agreement reached by the wage committee.

"The government was wrong for promising such a large increase in such a short time, and they are wrong for not delivering what they promised."

It is very clear that in the TVF universe, the answer to every question is 'the government is wrong'

[siampolee]

Like all the election promises from P.T. they are all but Pie Crust promises, so fragile and so easily broken too,

Talk is cheap, commitment and deeds cost money, however the cream that should have gone onto the electorates pie has no doubt gone onto the P.T. politicians pie.

Edited April 23, 2012 by siampolee

[whybother]

"Delivering a 39.5% increase now to 70 provinces and the 300 baht in 2013 is not what was promised."

No, but it was the agreement reached by the wage committee.

That doesn't make it a delivered promise. The wage committee doesn't set the laws. The government doesn't actually HAVE to listen to them.

I suppose you'll try and say that the promise for tablets was delivered too. "We tried to deliver them, but we couldn't get an agreement on the price and specs. PROMISE DELIVERED".