Is Bangkok In Thailand?......

[metisdead]

Posts drifting off topic to a discussion of colonization have been removed.

[Kananga]

Surely discussing the merits of colonization and its effect on the other main cities in the region in comparison to Bangkok etc and whether colonization has changed the other cities in a way that Bangkok hasn't in comparison to the rural areas is exactly what this topic is all about.

[TomTao]

When it comes to Bangkok, I only got there when I have to and I don't like to stay for more than a week, noisy, polluted and crowded, the up side it has shopping and prices that is better than places outside of Bangkok. I don't think Bangkok is truly representative of Thailand, but is rather the main entry point into Thailand for tourists and the transit point on to other destinations inside Thailand and internationally. I think that the majority of Thailand is still an aggrarian society, whereas Bangkok is more cosmopolitan, so by saying they are separate would not be completely incorrect, Bangkok is reliant on the remainder of the country for logistical support, and the remainder is reliant on Bangkok for administration, but otherwise they could be considered separate.

[StreetCowboy]

Surely discussing the merits of colonization and its effect on the other main cities in the region in comparison to Bangkok etc and whether colonization has changed the other cities in a way that Bangkok hasn't in comparison to the rural areas is exactly what this topic is all about.

You might as well talk about the governance of the church of scotland. There's no point criticising the boys on vespas

SC

Read it while you can!

[Kananga]

Surely discussing the merits of colonization and its effect on the other main cities in the region in comparison to Bangkok etc and whether colonization has changed the other cities in a way that Bangkok hasn't in comparison to the rural areas is exactly what this topic is all about.

You might as well talk about the governance of the church of scotland. There's no point criticising the boys on vespas

SC

Read it while you can!

Guess some people are just more tuned in than others... And I wasn't criticizing those with silly hairdos, just stating the obvious. I'm sure that there isn't a rule or regulation governing that. Yet.

[MrJohnson]

no, thailand is in bangkok

I agree. I love Bangkok. It is so diverse and as Thai as Tha Ton, Hat Yai, Phrae or Khon Kaen. Go from one neighborhood to another in the blink of an eye. Siam Square at the one end of the spectrum and Yaowarat at the other. You can wonder around Pattanakan, Bang Khe and Bangkapi for days without seeing another westerner if that is your thing.

[Kananga]

When it comes to Bangkok, I only got there when I have to and I don't like to stay for more than a week, noisy, polluted and crowded, the up side it has shopping and prices that is better than places outside of Bangkok. I don't think Bangkok is truly representative of Thailand, but is rather the main entry point into Thailand for tourists and the transit point on to other destinations inside Thailand and internationally. I think that the majority of Thailand is still an aggrarian society, whereas Bangkok is more cosmopolitan, so by saying they are separate would not be completely incorrect, Bangkok is reliant on the remainder of the country for logistical support, and the remainder is reliant on Bangkok for administration, but otherwise they could be considered separate.

I disagree. Bangkok provides a huge level of income opportunities for the seasonal workers from Issan. Many migrate to Bangkok for work during the dry season looking for work which provides a large sub economy and shift of financial aid to the North East that is totally reliant on this income. Without Bangkok the north east would be in dire trouble. This is far more than mere administration.

[draftvader]

theblether I have a lot of time for your musings and you and I have, inadvertently, supported each other on a small, but increasing, number of threads on here. You might well be a Scot and me a English/Welshman, but we do seem to agree. On this one, however, I can't let you have it. I have traveled far and wide in the world (another HUGE story) and seen a lot of what Thailand has to offer (there is just one small stretch of railway line I have not traveled yet). There is so much to see and love about Bangkok. There are days when it just does nothing for me, but so many times I turn a corner, slow my pace, and the world explodes into life around me. The joy in getting into the tightest lanes in Chinatown, or finding a quiet little district where life is more like a village, or heading down a soi like the one I live in where there is no motorised transport allowed and life still happens in a 3' wide path with numerous little back-soi where the children run screaming or fish for snails. In my soi I say "Good morning" (in 2 languages) to around 20 people each day on my way up to the market or Tesco. In my district people know the name of my daughter (both parents English) by name and I don't know them at all. My local market has numerous people coming and going, but if any refer to me as "The Farang" there is a chorus of "not this one". My local monastery has a lovely Thai-Aussie monk (heading back to Sydney for a while due to ill health in the family) who would always stop for a chat (about hacking from time to time!) and out the back of there is the foot-ferry to the other side where there is an amazing street for all sorts of food.

Bangkok has a pace, sometimes fast, sometimes slow, get it wrong and you miss it all. You NEED to be in tune. Don't believe me? Come down and stay in my soi for a few days...seriously. I can agree that it is tough to live here sometimes and I CAN think of better places to live, but if you have a reason to be here then you can make a good life out of it.

Where exactly do you live? On Nut?

You can click on my profile to find out. To save you the effort, it is Bangplad.

[StreetCowboy]

When it comes to Bangkok, I only got there when I have to and I don't like to stay for more than a week, noisy, polluted and crowded, the up side it has shopping and prices that is better than places outside of Bangkok. I don't think Bangkok is truly representative of Thailand, but is rather the main entry point into Thailand for tourists and the transit point on to other destinations inside Thailand and internationally. I think that the majority of Thailand is still an aggrarian society, whereas Bangkok is more cosmopolitan, so by saying they are separate would not be completely incorrect, Bangkok is reliant on the remainder of the country for logistical support, and the remainder is reliant on Bangkok for administration, but otherwise they could be considered separate.

I disagree. Bangkok provides a huge level of income opportunities for the seasonal workers from Issan. Many migrate to Bangkok for work during the dry season looking for work which provides a large sub economy and shift of financial aid to the North East that is totally reliant on this income. Without Bangkok the north east would be in dire trouble. This is far more than mere administration.

When they want cash, its all the land of the free.

Then, after they've trousered what they can, its back to the Real Thailand.

Is there a Real Thailand supporters' club?

I suppose, we might call them 'taxpayers'...

SC

[Kananga]

When it comes to Bangkok, I only got there when I have to and I don't like to stay for more than a week, noisy, polluted and crowded, the up side it has shopping and prices that is better than places outside of Bangkok. I don't think Bangkok is truly representative of Thailand, but is rather the main entry point into Thailand for tourists and the transit point on to other destinations inside Thailand and internationally. I think that the majority of Thailand is still an aggrarian society, whereas Bangkok is more cosmopolitan, so by saying they are separate would not be completely incorrect, Bangkok is reliant on the remainder of the country for logistical support, and the remainder is reliant on Bangkok for administration, but otherwise they could be considered separate.

I disagree. Bangkok provides a huge level of income opportunities for the seasonal workers from Issan. Many migrate to Bangkok for work during the dry season looking for work which provides a large sub economy and shift of financial aid to the North East that is totally reliant on this income. Without Bangkok the north east would be in dire trouble. This is far more than mere administration.

When they want cash, its all the land of the free.

Then, after they've trousered what they can, its back to the Real Thailand.

Is there a Real Thailand supporters' club?

I suppose, we might call them 'taxpayers'...

SC

Small club. Folded after a month. Couldn't manage to cover its overheads.

[dave111223]

Would you say "Boston is not in America, because it's nothing like Bible Hill, Tennessee"?

Or "Manchester is not English, because it's nothing like Lands End"

[Kananga]

QUOTE "it's just another farang monstrosity with it's shopping malls and cineplex's."

How on earth can it be an farang monstrosity? I don't think we Farangs built their shit city - I think they managed that on their own!

Stop blaming Farangs - who obviously would never build such a pile of shit - When it is actually down to Thais!

Farangs built Windsor Castle, Buckingham Palace, many many stately homes, no farang would be guilty of designing Bangkok, unless he was on acid at the time - only a Thai could have invented a fairyland like that

QA disneyland created on Ya Bah and meth and a bit of crack cocaine!

But, but, but crack cocaine is a farang drug...

[StreetCowboy]

QUOTE "it's just another farang monstrosity with it's shopping malls and cineplex's."

How on earth can it be an farang monstrosity? I don't think we Farangs built their shit city - I think they managed that on their own!

Stop blaming Farangs - who obviously would never build such a pile of shit - When it is actually down to Thais!

Sometimes we just can't help letting our prejudice shine through. Sometimes, its the only light we have to steer by.

I think he meant (a la mode) Farang.

To be honest, the problem here is the relative differential of private wealth and power versus municipal. In the UK, such shopping centres would be required to take more consideration of their surroundings, and make some effort to integrate into the city, whereas that does not seem to be the case here.

I am ore distressed by the great suburban sprawling warehouses out along bangna trad and elsewhere (specifically, Sighthill and Ironforge, with which you may be less familiar). THese developments arise because of poor (meaning unsophisticated or inappropriate) municipal land taxation, and drive the world into the same development model as Los Angeles. But sadly, that is the future of Thailand, and the mosquito-ridden, disease-riddled corrupt feudal poverty that we all love so much is disappearing here just as it did in our own countries. Perhaps we would be better trying to recreate this rural idyll by inbreeding at home, rather than foisting ourselves on our impoverished neighbours.

SC

[pastitche]

I really liked Dubai. There was a buzz about the place - different buzzes, depending on where you stood, not to mention the air-conditioned bus stops.

Its easy to condemn places we don't like, and criticise them, but it might be more appropriate to avoid being judgemental, and understand what the place was like, swapping objective or complimentary terms for prejorative terms like "concrete jungle". You might call it 'developed', or 'modern', or 'modernist', or 'Corbussien'; 'metropolitan' or 'cosmopolitan'. 'Bustling'. Whatever.

I'd far rather live in Bangkok than in the boondocks with the inbreds.

SC

You mean Wishaw?

[pastitche]

When it comes to Bangkok, I only got there when I have to and I don't like to stay for more than a week, noisy, polluted and crowded, the up side it has shopping and prices that is better than places outside of Bangkok. I don't think Bangkok is truly representative of Thailand, but is rather the main entry point into Thailand for tourists and the transit point on to other destinations inside Thailand and internationally. I think that the majority of Thailand is still an aggrarian society, whereas Bangkok is more cosmopolitan, so by saying they are separate would not be completely incorrect, Bangkok is reliant on the remainder of the country for logistical support, and the remainder is reliant on Bangkok for administration, but otherwise they could be considered separate.

I disagree. Bangkok provides a huge level of income opportunities for the seasonal workers from Issan. Many migrate to Bangkok for work during the dry season looking for work which provides a large sub economy and shift of financial aid to the North East that is totally reliant on this income. Without Bangkok the north east would be in dire trouble. This is far more than mere administration.

And where would Bangkok (or any other capital city) be without the workers from the provinces?

[Kananga]

When it comes to Bangkok, I only got there when I have to and I don't like to stay for more than a week, noisy, polluted and crowded, the up side it has shopping and prices that is better than places outside of Bangkok. I don't think Bangkok is truly representative of Thailand, but is rather the main entry point into Thailand for tourists and the transit point on to other destinations inside Thailand and internationally. I think that the majority of Thailand is still an aggrarian society, whereas Bangkok is more cosmopolitan, so by saying they are separate would not be completely incorrect, Bangkok is reliant on the remainder of the country for logistical support, and the remainder is reliant on Bangkok for administration, but otherwise they could be considered separate.

I disagree. Bangkok provides a huge level of income opportunities for the seasonal workers from Issan. Many migrate to Bangkok for work during the dry season looking for work which provides a large sub economy and shift of financial aid to the North East that is totally reliant on this income. Without Bangkok the north east would be in dire trouble. This is far more than mere administration.

And where would Bangkok (or any other capital city) be without the workers from the provinces?

The same as Singapore, LA, London etc. Hiring immigrants whether they are from Mexico, Poland or Myanmar...

[StreetCowboy]

When it comes to Bangkok, I only got there when I have to and I don't like to stay for more than a week, noisy, polluted and crowded, the up side it has shopping and prices that is better than places outside of Bangkok. I don't think Bangkok is truly representative of Thailand, but is rather the main entry point into Thailand for tourists and the transit point on to other destinations inside Thailand and internationally. I think that the majority of Thailand is still an aggrarian society, whereas Bangkok is more cosmopolitan, so by saying they are separate would not be completely incorrect, Bangkok is reliant on the remainder of the country for logistical support, and the remainder is reliant on Bangkok for administration, but otherwise they could be considered separate.

I disagree. Bangkok provides a huge level of income opportunities for the seasonal workers from Issan. Many migrate to Bangkok for work during the dry season looking for work which provides a large sub economy and shift of financial aid to the North East that is totally reliant on this income. Without Bangkok the north east would be in dire trouble. This is far more than mere administration.

And where would Bangkok (or any other capital city) be without the workers from the provinces?

In another country. fortunately for the booniefolks, Bangkok is in Thailand otherwise they would be going to Vientienne or Phnomh Penh or Ho Chi Minh or Yangoon for their money-making opporthinities. When you look at hard currency, like Thai baht, in the boonies, you can be grateful that your country includes a world metropolis like Bangkok so that you can buy a car or a PC. I don't know any currency with the international convertibility of the baht which does not have at least one metropolis comparable to Bangkok

SC

[mauGR1]

It May sound obvious, but Bangkok is Thailand, more or less like a rice field in Isaan or a beach in the South, just a bit too chaotic..IME

I have never been to any metropolis except Rome and Delhi, but i always thought that it can be difficult for me to feel more comfortable than BKK in any big city.

Except for the tourist bar area, i always had a good time there, i think Bangkokians in general are great people, with some exceptions of course.

[StreetCowboy]

When it comes to Bangkok, I only got there when I have to and I don't like to stay for more than a week, noisy, polluted and crowded, the up side it has shopping and prices that is better than places outside of Bangkok. I don't think Bangkok is truly representative of Thailand, but is rather the main entry point into Thailand for tourists and the transit point on to other destinations inside Thailand and internationally. I think that the majority of Thailand is still an aggrarian society, whereas Bangkok is more cosmopolitan, so by saying they are separate would not be completely incorrect, Bangkok is reliant on the remainder of the country for logistical support, and the remainder is reliant on Bangkok for administration, but otherwise they could be considered separate.

I disagree. Bangkok provides a huge level of income opportunities for the seasonal workers from Issan. Many migrate to Bangkok for work during the dry season looking for work which provides a large sub economy and shift of financial aid to the North East that is totally reliant on this income. Without Bangkok the north east would be in dire trouble. This is far more than mere administration.

And where would Bangkok (or any other capital city) be without the workers from the provinces?

The same as Singapore, LA, London etc. Hiring immigrants whether they are from Mexico, Poland or Myanmar...

I suppose, conversely, do you think the boonies are in Thailand? Would Thailand be any worse off if Isaan was foisted off on Laos?

SC

[canuckoverseas]

I don't know any currency with the international convertibility of the baht which does not have at least one metropolis comparable to Bangkok

SC

I tried changing Egypt pounds at several money changers in Bangkok airport and they just laughed at the bills when they saw them.

[Kananga]

I disagree. Bangkok provides a huge level of income opportunities for the seasonal workers from Issan. Many migrate to Bangkok for work during the dry season looking for work which provides a large sub economy and shift of financial aid to the North East that is totally reliant on this income. Without Bangkok the north east would be in dire trouble. This is far more than mere administration.

And where would Bangkok (or any other capital city) be without the workers from the provinces?

The same as Singapore, LA, London etc. Hiring immigrants whether they are from Mexico, Poland or Myanmar...

I suppose, conversely, do you think the boonies are in Thailand? Would Thailand be any worse off if Isaan was foisted off on Laos?

SC

Yes as the migration I was referring to is seasonal. When there is work to be had and rice to be grown the north east is valuable in bolstering Thailand's agricultural output. Also the economy raised by the off season workers in Bangkok is sent to another part of Thailand so the economy still benefits, when this income would be lost if send 'overseas' to Lao.

[StreetCowboy]

I don't know any currency with the international convertibility of the baht which does not have at least one metropolis comparable to Bangkok

SC

I tried changing Egypt pounds at several money changers in Bangkok airport and they just laughed at the bills when they saw them.

I love it when I can cheer people up

SC

[samran]

I don't know any currency with the international convertibility of the baht which does not have at least one metropolis comparable to Bangkok

SC

I tried changing Egypt pounds at several money changers in Bangkok airport and they just laughed at the bills when they saw them.

Aye, but go down to Soi 4 and the money changers there will give you a decent rate.

[buhi]

Bangkok is a place to visit as a tourist for a few days,but you will not see Bangkok.

I first lived here years ago and soon tired of all the things that seemed ,at that time, to make it an exciting place to live and work.

Gradually I began moving further from the centre,from Sukhunwit , Silom and after marrying even further out to the suburbs which few tourists will ever see, mainly because you could not find them or would feel intimidated exploring them.

The truth is the real Bangkok is not a huge metropolis it is a conurbation of small villages.These small villages are occupied in most cases by a few extended families that form a very close knit network.

You need to have Thai contacts to get into them, they will stare and wonder, as I do now, what the hell is that sranger doing wandering around our Soi?

My extended Thai family all live within a short motorcycle trip from each other. The core family group all within adjoining sois. There nearly every one is related closely or distantly in some way.

They are in daily contact with each other and my wife's siblings all share an evening meal together even though her eldest brother is in his mid forties.My wife will often join them, hopping on a motorcycle of an evening.

I rarely do now, as I prefer blogging and watching TV in English rather than the dreadful Thai soaps which are essential viewing at Ban Yai's house.

Our house is also in a small inter connected network of a few families, non related to my family, but we are now part of this village having settled here ten years ago.It was my wife, who very sensibly ,as I now realise, said she did not want to build a house on a plot of land I had singled out, very close to the core family. It would have been too claustraphobic for me, and the constant "sharing" of everything from the car to space . These Thai people are no different to their up country Thai. I have stayed in real isolated villages in Chiang Rai where another branch of the family are settled, have roots, my sister in law's family.Staying there is no different to being here.

Now I need to point out these are old, well established Bangkok communities not the flash new housing estates or the high rise areas.

I could take you into another similar, well far more seedy, community a stones throw from Lumpini Park. I would note advise it to theblether though. This is the community of my wife's ex and was where her family lived when they first settled in Bangkok over sixty years ago, They moved away as soon as they could afford the plot of land where they now live.

However because my step children are in contact with their father and some of his immediate family live there,I can go into this den of thieves, drug dealers, and prostitutes.

The rest of his family his brothers and uncles live in the same small soi at Ban Yai.

Another large branch of the extended family, on mother in laws' side, live in Lat Krabang, which is next to the airport. They settled there also about sixty years ago and it is another village I have access to.

So Bangkok is a place to live if you are part of the real heartbeat of this strange city.

Bangkok is Thailand, with a large poulation of migrant workers. Note how it empties at every major festival, leaving the place to us (I dare to include myself) to enjoy with friends and family.

Come and visit thebletherer, you might be surprised a the warm heartedness of the real Bangkok.

PS why does my spell check, Google bar not work on TV?

Edited April 24, 2012 by buhi

[DavidSL]

It's probably been said, but you've seen 'your' Bangkok. You've stayed in 5 star hotels and 2 star hotels, but unless I missed it, you've never lived here. Soi Cowboy isn't Bangkok, it's just a street. That bar you were sitting at with your friend is just another street. Yes, Bangkok is overcrowded and lacks the natural beauty of the Countryside, but you just have different experiences of Thailand than those of us who live in the city. I've travelled Thailand a bit, and I love the Countryside as much as the islands, but I do like living in the city (or just outside it). Bangkok is pure Thailand, it's just busier and noisier than you're used to.

[wana]

Bangkok is pure Thailand, it's just busier and noisier than you're used to.

i would go further ,bangkok is hardcore thailand

as thai as it gets

pattaya feels a lot more like an ex-pat haven with farangs all over the place with their

bangkok gets mighty lonely if you dont know any spoken thai ,you could be on another planet

mixing in areas where no farang in his right mind would ever know or even go

Edited April 24, 2012 by wana

[theblether]

It is quite obvious that geographically BKK is within Thailand, and I appreciate the replies in defence of the city. I quite believe if I lived as an expat within the city I would quickly adjust to the rhythm of the place.

It is a pity it has developed into a concrete carbuncle, though I suppose that is the price of modern development.

I would have loved to have seen the city 30 years ago though. I understand that some concrete had to be poured to prevent regular flooding but it appears that all traditional architecture has been destroyed too.

Singapore and Shanghai have managed to hang on to their architecture in many places, especially Singapore.

I understand the concept of BKK being a series of small villages, London is the same. Cities can be massive, they can develop and they can sustain giant populations, but they need to retain their identity, their architecture, and their soul

[Geekfreaklover]

Bangkok is more Thai than any other area simply because it has more Thai people from all the other Thai provinces living and working there. But what it also has is many people from other countries and cultures living there which gives the capital a worldly flavor that could also make it seem to some tourists as not the real Thailand.

I was just today reading Bernard Trink's biography and one thing I share with the night-owl is a fondness for the public transport system, especially the public bus system that allows one to travel anywhere in the city for a few baht. Sat on the bus I can look out of the window and watch the river of humanity flow by. There is always something happening in Bangkok night and day and the greatest pleasure is to be a voyeur and watch the great show unfold.

I've lived on tourist islands in the south, a small isaan village, historical cities like Ayutthaya, I've spent time in the north. When living in most foreign countries it is often best to live in the capital. If I was in France it would have to be Paris, Uk London, Austria Vienna. In Thailand it has to be Bangkok, until I have the money to retire, the kids have finished school etc we will be more than happy here.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Geekfreaklover

[Kananga]

It is quite obvious that geographically BKK is within Thailand, and I appreciate the replies in defence of the city. I quite believe if I lived as an expat within the city I would quickly adjust to the rhythm of the place.

It is a pity it has developed into a concrete carbuncle, though I suppose that is the price of modern development.

I would have loved to have seen the city 30 years ago though. I understand that some concrete had to be poured to prevent regular flooding but it appears that all traditional architecture has been destroyed too.

Singapore and Shanghai have managed to hang on to their architecture in many places, especially Singapore.

I understand the concept of BKK being a series of small villages, London is the same. Cities can be massive, they can develop and they can sustain giant populations, but they need to retain their identity, their architecture, and their soul

You're kidding? There is constant complaint about how Singapore has effectively torn down 80% of the heritage buildings and replaced them with identical soulless glass and steel towers.

[travelmann]

Absolutely agree, but not everyone will.

IMO a corollary - the "real Thais", or at least IMO the better ones, are the rural poor.

Poor or idle????