Criminal Convictions (hers Not Mine!)

[jrincon17]

Interesting reading.

GU22 -  Annex D appears to give the "Good Character Requirement" for Naturalisation (acquiring British citizenship). (it's an Annex to Chapter 18)

The "Clear" periods (although not applicable for her) do appear to still be discretionary.

You mention it was also for ILR? are you sure? (obviously we gotta get the 2 year SV first!)

Maybe the requirements for citizenship are higher? I recall that The Harrods owner (Mohamed Al Fayed) has always been refused a British Passport (I presume citizenship) on the basis of Character, although it appears he has ILR (although he may have got this before he was discovered to be of "bad character", but not bad enough to revoke his ILR?)

As I said earlier, I will be having a look at her record when in Bangkok next month - so will know exactly what and when I am dealing with. Might even be the chance of getting a "lawyer" involved to get her record cleaned up. I am not betting on this, but who knows what CAN happen.

My gut feeling on all this from what I have read so far is that if we declare then the Embassy have plenty of scope to refuse, but they could approve it. (who can really argue against the principal of keeping serial drug offenders out of the UK!)

If we do not declare then she should be OK (even as a former BG), unless they check her record. In which case we are well and truly f#cked.

I think I am pretty safe in saying here that she is not the first wife to have applied for a visa with drug convictions, and by the fact that the question does not seem to be a well trodden path here leads me to suspect that folk have just lied about it. Also I am guessing that you folks have not had too many (if any) people posting "We lied on the application form and got caught out - what do we do?".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ok lie your ass off, thats the best way . dont say bg either

[Jersey_UK]

this is the u.s. but take it to consideration. My bro's wife from the philippines was rejected after her 2nd interview because she admitted to doing drugs never convicted , but was honest and said yes along time ago

Confusing the Govt with honesty - nightmare scenario.

I am probably a complete mug for saying this, but I would like to do all this with "a straight bat". But I can easily envisage me still posting "help" questions in 2 years from making a dumb decision - I just don't know which decision is the dumb one - or even if their is a smart one...........

[GU22]

GU22 -  Annex D appears to give the "Good Character Requirement" for Naturalisation (acquiring British citizenship). (it's an Annex to Chapter 18)

Yep, you're right, it does apply to naturalisation, not ILR. Sorry about that, but I filched the link from a thread in another forum about ILR, and assumed that's what it was for. Should have checked first!

Also I am guessing that you folks have not had too many (if any) people posting "We lied on the application form and got caught out - what do we do?".

This and similar forums get quite a few posts slagging off the ECOs because their partner's visa was refused. In a large number of cases, when pushed for details of the refusal, the poster admits to porkies on the application.

My gut feeling on all this from what I have read so far is that if we declare then the Embassy have plenty of scope to refuse, but they could approve it..........If we do not declare then she should be OK........unless they check her record. In which case we are well and truly f#cked.

Got it in one. My advice is to come clean, unless the convictions are spent (that link should help you there), but it's your call.

BTW, ex bargirl is not a problem (at least for a UK visa); if ex bargirls didn't get visas then many of the Thai wives in the UK would not be here!

Just had a thought. If she were in the UK, then she would probably have a probation officer who could give her a character reference confirming her "good behaviour" since her last conviction. Any possibility of something similar in Thailand?

Edited December 29, 2005 by GU22

[Jersey_UK]

Just had a thought. If she were in the UK, then she would probably have a probation officer who could give her a character reference confirming her "good behaviour" since her last conviction. Any possibility of something similar in Thailand?

Interesting thought on the PO. I don't think so, apart from her having in the past being made to take regular piss tests. But I will check with her next week.

I was thinking of trying to use her part time work for the Bangkok Health Authority (which she got via her past) for something similar, basically a glorified reference.

Apart from the low level muppets she has worked for day to day - she does have an intro to a very big cheese, who ASKED to see her last year because she is quite famous / infamous in her small world both as a complete no hoper for many many years, and as someone who takes no sh#t from folk, both verbally and physically.

Part of it was to see in person whether she had changed and hear how she had turned her stuff around before she was signed up as a part of a program sending reformed druggies out to lecture to students on the perils of drug abuse and life at the sh#ty end of society, but mainly to make sure that he was not going to be associated with a complete disaster (I am sure you know how things work, especially in Thailand). I also think a part of it was also to see whether this woman actually existed as described to him.

She had him litterally crying with laughter. Apparently the first time in 35 years anyone had come into his office and told him to f#ck off Fortunately he was part educated in the UK so knew how the phrase could be used, but mortified the underling (27 steps down the food chain!) who had introduced the missus, cos she couldn't understand much English and follow the conversation, but she certainly knew the F word..........and could no doubt see her job dissappearing .

He OK'd the gig for her. The Missues loves it when folk who she knows and they know would not ordinarily p#ss on her if she was on fire have to Wai her as the Teacher. Standing up in front of folk talking is a gig made for her. "I talk too much because I woman" It has also done a lot for her sense of worth.

I also MIGHT have an intro for her with a very respectable NGO, which may or may not help on the reference front - if we decide that it is best she stays in Thailand building up brownie points before applying.

PS I have actually been crying with laughter writing this post - made me recall so much stuff . She probably sounds a complete f#cking nightmare, and in many ways she is not the easiest of women, but underneath she is really quite a gentle soul.

Anyway, it's late here I am off to zzzzzzzzzzz

[GU22]

So she is now lecturing students on the perils of drug abuse as a Bangkok Health Authority employee? Excellent, get a reference from her employer! A character reference from the "big cheese" will be a definite bonus.

Her past may well put doubts in the ECO's mind. Evidence of her current employment and references from highly placed persons will cancel out those doubts, IMHO.

[Jersey_UK]

So she is now lecturing students on the perils of drug abuse as a Bangkok Health Authority employee? Excellent, get a reference from her employer! A character reference from the "big cheese" will be a definite bonus.

Her past may well put doubts in the ECO's mind. Evidence of her current employment and references from highly placed persons will cancel out those doubts, IMHO.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here is hoping.

Anyway, a bit more for the Knowledge Tree.

I have just been down to Jersey Immigration for a chat. (No queue, appointment or anything here in Jersey!)

No specifics given and I did not raise any questions about her history - I just wanted to find out whether their were any extra hoops for her to jump through from Jersey.

As already said, the application is first submitted to the British Embassy as normal, the recomendation of the ECO is then passed to Jersey for approval. The Immigration lady said that 99% of the time they agree with the recomendation.

What they did suggest was me "creating a file" for the application in Jersey as this would "speed things along". What this means in practice is filling out a simple one page form with our names, addresses and occupations etc. The form is actually called a "Sponsorship undertaking" and is signed by me and also states that I undertake to be responsible for her maintenence and accomadation in Jersey.

This form is NOT compulsory, just suggested. They also suggested that I copy them in on correspondence with the British Embassy, including the documents that are supplied because sometimes not all the docs are faxed through to them from Bangkok and it would help speed along the application.

Whilst we still have to address the question of her past - the fact that I can have in effect direct communication with the people responsible for the final decision and can also easily meet them in person and they are of course Native English speakers must be a help (rather than in Bangkok me being lucky to be let into the Embassy and even then only getting to see a Thai person behind a plate gals window). I figure that I will be taking down copy documents and letters to them in person over several trips to help build up a bit of a rapport and come accross as "a nice bloke" trying to do the honest thing. Maybe talk about the Missus a bit and make the application more "human" - than a faceless form, without slapping it on.

In addition it may well help the application in Bangkok in practice if my covering letter mentions that she already has a file in Jersey full of the documents (and Mr Farang has been talking to them in person), where the final OK will be given - might indicate to an ECO that their are people a lot higher up their food chain who will be looking closely at the application and indicates that yours truly does have direct access to them (In practice I of course have no influence) - but maybe in a Thai mind it will raise a doubt that yours truly has the potential to make problems for them - at least a bit more than the usual punter, with the ECO having an easy problem avoidance route of approving the application and letting the "Boss" in Jersey sort it out . Probably wishful thinking on my part

[the gent]

Yes, I rather think you are lurching into fantasy territory.

The recommendation to Jersey will be by the ECO, an employee of the FCO, who will consider the application within the immigration rules.Unless the application is to be facilitated by official sources operating in a demonstrably transparent manner, the recommendation will be his, and his alone.There is no "food chain" and no Thai will be involved.Locally engaged Thai staff do not consider visa applications. That is solely the province of UK staff. If you are able to cultivate a relationship with a Jersey official who may influence the ultimate outcome, then good on you but in practice the ECO's judgement will not be affected. He is, after all, only making a recommendation and any appeal will be against a decision made by the Jersey authorities.

Doubtless it may have already occurred to you but this is a well known forum and it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that someone from the Embassy could stumble across your dilemma. The graphic detail suggests a certain singularity.

Perhaps you have already crossed the Rubicon? But then I think you and your partner were inclining to full disclosure anyway.

The nub of the matter is your relationship and its genuineness.All the background stuff is a bit of a red herring and not as relevant as you may think. That is not to say they would not use it against your partner if they considered the relationship to be less than satisfactory.

Anyway, I'm sure you will meet with success unless, of course, she gets grumpy with the ECO and tells him to &lt;deleted&gt; off which might just prejudice things a tad.

[GU22]

If Jersey immigration are suggesting a particular course of action then it would be a wise move to follow it.

Thai staff at the British embassy are employed as translators and in clerical positions. It may be a Thai who takes your application when it's handed in and it may be a Thai who takes the fee at the cash desk; but the ECOs, that is the people who make the decisions, are all British.

[the scouser]

Make sure that you fully consider your actions and fully prepare the application before it is made, as (from the DSPs)

Any decision to refuse an entry clearance by the Jersey or Guernsey authorities does not give the right of appeal.

Scouse.

[the gent]

Interestingly, The Human Rights Law(Jersey) was passed in 2000 but is not yet in force, presumably because they are still working out how it is to be implemented. Nevertheless, under the legislation public authorities are required not to act in any way which is incompatible with the European Convention on Human Rights. Under the latter Jersey UK has a right to marry and to found a family. Whether or not the Courts are operating in the spirit of the HR Law is outside my ken but I would suspect that an application for Judicial review might have some mileage if his partner were to be refused without the right of appeal.

Anyway, let's not be pessimistic.

[Richard W]

Nevertheless, under the legislation public authorities are required not to act in any way which is incompatible with the European Convention on Human Rights. Under the latter Jersey UK has a right to marry and to found a family.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Under English law, most human rights are subordinate to the state's right to have an effective immigration policy.

[Jersey_UK]

Thanks for taking the trouble to give me your thoughts and clearly explaining the process.

Yes, I rather think you are lurching into fantasy territory.

Fair comment, perhaps my optimism did get the better of me earlier today (quite unlike me really ) - but I am pretty sure that we are going to be having some s#itty times ahead on this application (see, back to normal now!), even if hopefully "only" unfounded fears and confusion. so please excuse me for enjoying a moment of optimism (even if baseless) having just met someone at Jersey Immigration who at least seemed reasonable and human (I know appearances can be deceptive - it's the Govt!).

If you are able to cultivate a relationship with a Jersey official who may influence the ultimate outcome

NOT what I was trying to say - and I would sincerely HOPE this was not possible - I am a "native" here . It is just that I have never had too much to do with officialdom in Thailand, save for a lost passport many many years ago and the usual visa extensions - everything has never been any great problem, but I have always been uncomfortable with the constant feeling that I am never quite sure what is going on and why -being able to understand and communicate in your own language does (to me anyway) make a great deal of difference. Maybe it's because I have always been one who likes to know what and why things are going on? - I think it is also called being "Nosey".

I know I probably should not say this (especially given your comments about this being a well known website), but as long as we KNOW we have had "fair crack of the whip" then whatever the outcome we will just take things from there. To a large degree the Missus moving to Jersey is a decision by me, as it's where MY money comes from as well as it being my home and therefore it just makes sense for us to be together here, rather than that she has had a life long love of Jersey Cows and Black Butter . We've gotta live in one place or the other. We may however need to rephrase this explanation.

BUT if push comes to shove and I have to choose between a large lump of granite near France or the Missus, then so be it. It may even turn out to be the best decision for both of us in the long run. Who knows where life leads us............

The bottom line is that we have been on a long journey already (even if we never thought to document all of it! ) and that whatever officialdom says, our journey WILL be continuing together. Neither of us really expects things to be straightforward - life has taught each of us that already...........

Anyway, I'm sure you will meet with success unless, of course, she gets grumpy with the ECO and tells him to &lt;deleted&gt; off which might just prejudice things a tad.

I probably shouldn't have posted that up, people do not always translate well into 6 lines of writing but I thought I would try and put a bit of human interest into this ongoing story as well as the dry discussions about Forms x y & z (for the umpteenth time ) - and besides I thought any folk following this thread (now or in the future) might be a bit nosey about why I had got myself tucked up with someone like this - I have seen enough about how these things can work in Thailand to also be curious, if it was someone else.

Just to mention that the reason she told the "big cheese" to f#ck off was that she judged that she was able to get away with it. And it was pertinent to their conversation. And in this case she WAS right in her judgement of the situation. It actually helped her.

With the use of the F word she is able to use it pretty much like a native English speaker in that unlike many Thais she knows that it is not always an insult, if not always a polite way to make a point. Succint, but not always polite. (I have no idea how she has honed her ability to use the F word proficiently )

I appreciate what you are saying on telling the ECO to F#ck off . As long as she doesn't get treated like something unpleasant stuck to the bottom of the ECO's shoe then all should be well. She doesn't mindlessly address people and situations in a confrontational manner - but she is someone who does not bow down to anyone "just" because of their position - she is someone willing to stand up for both herself and where possible others - especially when she knows she is being fed the sh#tty end of the stick. She knows she might not always "win" an argument or get her own way (and that in fact it is sometimes counterproductive), but she sure as s#it ain't gonna crawl on her belly for anyone. In my part of the world I would call this..........normal.

Doubtless it may have already occurred to you but this is a well known forum and it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that someone from the Embassy could stumble across your dilemma. The graphic detail suggests a certain singularity.

Perhaps you have already crossed the Rubicon? But then I think you and your partner were inclining to full disclosure anyway.

Having re-read this thread I see what you mean, especially on the singularity. It did occur to me initially (you get very used to things being a small world here) - but I decided that the information I would get was worth it. But it's interesting re-reading what I have disclosed nonetheless. So be it. Pity she is not a Budhist then she could maybe sign up to be a Nun for a couple of months .

As the application is not going to be made soon, probably on my next trip around Songkran / Easter - it has just occurred to me that some poor bugger and his wife may be applying to come to Jersey in the meantime and will be getting an unexpected 3rd degree. Ooops. Sorry dude. and I hope she is not a HISO "Princess". (BTW I know I do not have to be their for the application to go in or for the much later interview, if we get that far, but call it moral support or whatever - it IS an important event for us - as well as of course that I just want to be with her).

I think I referred to before a possible naivete on my part on the disclosure thing - but looking back I guess during this thread I was seeking a justification to disclose. (ie that it is not a 1,000,000% dumb thing to do). I think I have found enough justification. Failure when doing the "right thing" may not be nice, but failure because YOURS TRULY decided to do the "wrong thing" would be a lot harder..........without having to explain to the Missus.

The nub of the matter is your relationship and its genuineness.All the background stuff is a bit of a red herring and not as relevant as you may think. That is not to say they would not use it against your partner if they considered the relationship to be less than satisfactory.

That is fair enough. That comes under my category "fair crack of the whip".

[Jersey_UK]

GU22

If Jersey immigration are suggesting a particular course of action then it would be a wise move to follow it.

Agreed

Thai staff at the British embassy are employed as translators and in clerical positions. It may be a Thai who takes your application when it's handed in and it may be a Thai who takes the fee at the cash desk; but the ECOs, that is the people who make the decisions, are all British.

I must confess that I didn’t understand this. I thought it was a case that an ECO could be a Thai National especially if Thai was spoken during an interview, with a Brit then being involved to check / approve what the Thai had done. (The Missus could probably have a fair stab at doing the Interview in English – but Thai would be the better language for her to express the more complex stuff, especially when she can’t use the F-word! )

At the risk of not sounding totally “multicultural” one of the things that did concern me was that we would be dealing with a Thai National who perhaps had their own issues / agenda and that (perhaps understandably?) they may not exactly be delighted to see someone who they (she?!) thought was somewhat beneath them going off “to the promised land” solely from taking the “easy route” and would seize on an opportunity to put a spanner in the works (in this case there is plenty of scope).

I won’t say that my social circle in Thailand has ever been extensive, but I do know and have known Thai folk who have not reacted favourably to the Missus over the years. (I am not just talking about the usual suspects here) – You don’t need extensive language skills to know when someone is being talked to and treated like s#it. Although not happy about it I can accept and understand it from folk who do not know her and work hard 24/7 for peanuts, and even from the folk who took a similar “career” path, but it is not something I was looking forward to having to face at the Embassy.

I am not saying that a Brit ECO (Man or Woman) is never going to have issues (even if they are not meant to – we are all human), but I just feel more comfortable now knowing that the Yes or No on the Application will be dealt with by someone who is not bringing anything Thai into the equation.

I am probably being terribly unfair to the Thai staff at the Embassy of course. Ooops.

[Jersey_UK]

Scouser

Any decision to refuse an entry clearance by the Jersey or Guernsey authorities does not give the right of appeal.

I had seen this. Would it be hypocritical to say fair enough really? As the alternative is setting up an appeals process that I have to constantly fund from my taxes. (And hopefully OUR taxes in due course!).

If the application fails because of a lack of proof of a genuine relationship, then I figure that time will eventually cure this for another Application and that in any event an Appeal is only against the facts as already presented, not an opportunity to present some more evidence.

If the application fails because of her past, then from what I have read so far, I figure that an Appeal would be unlikely to make any difference anyway. We just have to move on from there.

If the application fails because I failed to provide everything I should have, then it is just down to me.

As I said in a previous post, if the Application fails then it will not be the end of the road for us. Just a different route.

[Jersey_UK]

Interestingly, The Human Rights Law(Jersey) was passed in 2000 but is not yet in force, presumably because they are still working out how it is to be implemented. Nevertheless, under the legislation public authorities are required not to act in any way which is incompatible with the European Convention on Human Rights. Under the latter Jersey UK has a right to marry and to found a family. Whether or not the Courts are operating in the spirit of the HR Law is outside my ken but I would suspect that an application for Judicial review might have some mileage if his partner were to be refused without the right of appeal.

Anyway, let's not be pessimistic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was going to touch on this in my earlier posts - but deleted what I had written!

"Spirit of the HR law" - the answer is meant to be. And things are changing here, especially when it comes to trying to make sure that new laws coming in are compliant - although of course it is often used as a way of arguing and changing laws for other reasons. Bringing other laws up to date is not exactly a high priority.

The HR law is NOT something that the local politicians exactly embraced as the best thing since sliced bread, just that they felt forced to. Make your own judgement on how that affects things. (BTW we haven't quite gone for the complete seperation of the Legislature and Judiciary (or even Legislature and Policing) - so gives you an idea how things work here).

"Judicial Review" - mmmmmm, I am not sure if I could afford to go down that route here in Jersey!

But maybe it is one of those things where the threat would be enough (Down here we are desperately trying to fall back off the Radar screen of anything "Eurpoean"). But I hope I never have to find out.

[otherstuff1957]

Good Luck Jersey!

I can't help you with UK immigration law, but I can cheer you up by saying that I was able to get my wife a US tourist visa, even though we technically didn't qualify! (My thai income didn't exceed the US poverty line and there were some gaps in her employment history).

My advice for you would be to prepare a backup plan if she gets refused. Are you already married? If not, you might want to go ahead and get married here in Thailand. You might also want to find some kind of long term housing here as well. I know that it's difficult to think about spending a lot if time apart when you've just fallen in love, but you may need to split your time between Thailand and the UK for the next two or three years. If you are refused initially and have to try to get her to the UK a second time, having had a long term marriage and having lived together would probably help a lot.

[Boo]

I had no job, no house, no money & we still managed to get a residency visa. I made sure all our paperwork was top class & totally organised & easy to find. I had a 2k pound loan from my mum dumped in my account a couple of days before our application & printed off an internet statement, I provided my last 3 months wage slips (from 6mths previous) & a copy of the last years P60 ( I had only worked for 10 weeks that year but it showed my earning capablilities) & my husband had been a muscician for 8 years so had no traceable work history. My mum wrote a letter of invite specifying how many rooms she had in the house & had it notorised by her lawyer & my hubby had his interview in Thai after several weeks of prep by me (mum & dads names, sisters name, where we will be staying, my bday, all the things most blokes don't concern themselves with ). Too many people I know got refused as their partners interviewed in English & didn't explain themselves well so the ECO got suspicious. Another thing I did was write a letter to the ECO outlining our relationship & our plans for the future. This was useful as hubby had memrised it (it was all true) & the ECO used it to interview him.

Maybe get people who have know you both for the 6 years could attest to your friendship & later your relationship, I know it's not really needed but anything that will pad out your paperwork & prove your genuiness will help.As someone else said, what they are looking for is a genuine relationship & her background, although, not great, isn't the main thing they will be looking for.

[GU22]

Interestingly, The Human Rights Law(Jersey) was passed in 2000 but is not yet in force, presumably because they are still working out how it is to be implemented. Nevertheless, under the legislation public authorities are required not to act in any way which is incompatible with the European Convention on Human Rights. Under the latter Jersey UK has a right to marry and to found a family. Whether or not the Courts are operating in the spirit of the HR Law is outside my ken but I would suspect that an application for Judicial review might have some mileage if his partner were to be refused without the right of appeal.

Anyway, let's not be pessimistic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The European Human Rights Convention guarantees a "right to family life" but does not specify where that family life should be. Any appeal to the European Court would fail as the member states immigration rules take precedence.

Refusing a visa does not contravene the right to family life as it merely says that the applicant cannot enter a certain country. The family are perfectly free to set up home in the applicant's home country or elsewhere. Of course there may be asylum issues, but that's a different matter and it is highly unlikely that a Thai national would qualify for asylum anyway.

[Jersey_UK]

Good Luck Jersey!

I can't help you with UK immigration law, but I can cheer you up by saying that I was able to get my wife a US tourist visa, even though we technically didn't qualify! (My thai income didn't exceed the US poverty line and there were some gaps in her employment history). 

My advice for you would be to prepare a backup plan if she gets refused.  Are you already married?  If not, you might want to go ahead and get married here in Thailand.  You might also want to find some kind of long term housing here as well.  I know that it's difficult to think about spending a lot if time apart when you've just fallen in love, but you may need to split your time between Thailand and the UK for the next two or three years.  If you are refused initially and have to try to get her to the UK a second time, having had a long term marriage and having lived together would probably help a lot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the encouragement. It is much appreciated.

We are getting married at the end of Jan.

I have been fairly fortunate in that my work opportunitites here in Jersey have allowed me to spend a lot of time in Thailand over the years - and just come back and pick up another contract, pretty much as and when I need to. Probably initially the back up plan will be to just carry on as we are - at least so I can build up a bit more money - maybe we would then try and relocate somewhere else.

I must confess that I am not overly keen on moving to Thailand permanently, although if push comes to shove I would. For me the money is just not there - unless I set up a business, which is something I truly hesitate to try and do in Thailand. Although I suppose I could try being an English Teacher, at least until I get settled (apologies to any English Teachers reading this! - it is just that I can't stand kids!!!)

[Jersey_UK]

(mum & dads names, sisters name, where we will be staying, my bday, all the things most blokes don't concern themselves with )

Yeah this is something I had picked up from this website - a lot of the answers even YOURS TRULY had to think about! (I still can never remember exactly what date my father's birthday is, although I know it is July sometime and he was born in 1934 - and by brother's birthday is Jan 14 - but the year always escapes me - in fact I remember having a discussion with my Father once, and between us we could only put it within a couple of years.

Maybe get people who have know you both for the 6 years could attest to your friendship & later your relationship,

It is the credibility thing though. As something makes me think that most of the folk we actually do know would perhaps not have much credibility with the Embassy . I am sure the Embassy knows that most folk would have no problem finding a dozen willing to say that the couple were a modern day Romeo & Juliet..........even if none of them had ever met the couple before!

But having just said that, thinking about it their MAY in fact be a couple of people who might have some credibility and be prepared to put something in writing, to at least say we have known each other, even if they do not go back the whole 6 years and are of course unable to say whether the relationship is "genuine" - whether this actually helps is perhaps debateable but maybe just adds to the picture. Thanks for the idea.

Agree that the genuiness thing is the crux though. If I had known we would be getting here I would perhaps have documented things a lot differently..........and some of the stuff I have I am not at this moment overly comfortable in sending to the Embassy. It's not even that looking at things and letters out of context does not make much sense or that they contain any revelations or that they are often silly, childish and pointless - just that as a whole some things are personal. I am a bloke and British. Two things that do not always go together with sharing emotions with complete strangers!

Anyway, thanks a lot Boo - a few words of encouragement do go a long way!

[Jersey_UK]

Of course there may be asylum issues, but that's a different matter and it is highly unlikely that a Thai national would qualify for asylum anyway.

Yeah she probably doesn't qualify for Asylum.

The last time she was politically active was back in 1992 when she was out on the demos. Actually very moving hearing her talking about it, particularly as it is coupled with her evident anger, bitterness and complete dissapointment and disillusion with events since - and not just for herself. I guess when you are young you tend to beleive that the future both for yourself, others and your country can be better.

Sometimes I THINK about voting, but usually just can't be bothered............

Hopefully any ECO does not get her on the subject of Thai politics and especially Toksin.

But this is all another thread.

[Jersey_UK]

Seeing as this thread has been referred to a couple of times recently, I thought I would bring it "back to life again"...............and I ended up reading it again, christ, did I really disclose all that stuff!

[Team Bukowski]

goddammit man! Did she get the visa or not? I just read this entire bloody thread (which started 3 months ago) hoping for a *cough* happy ending, and nothing!

Edited April 1, 2006 by Team Bukowski

[Jersey_UK]

goddammit man! Did she get the visa or not? I just read this entire bloody thread (which started 3 months ago) hoping for a *cough* happy ending, and nothing!

Actually we have not even applied yet! (I missed my flights back in January (fog in Channel England cut off ), and then I got another contract so I stayed here, which I have just finished ) - I should be in Thailand again this month, but wedding looks like it will be delayed (seperate story!) until another and longer trip around August / Sept time...........but in the meantime I have plans to see how she gets on with a TV (although I think her odds are somewhat lower than zero ).

Don't worry, I WILL post up how she gets on with both the TV and eventually the SV. Can't guarantee a happy ending though.................even if she get's the SV