It's A Hard Road Home For Thaksin

[phiphidon]

Look at the statistics of the average household debt since he was in power! He made them poorer than broke! All he did was riding the upward economic wave that came after the crisis! He gave handouts, and most important loans! A lot of people upcountry lost their lands to the banks and became slaves of the Thaksin Economics!

Another fallacy often repeated

So Thaksin comes to power to find a dramatic increase in public debt with the government using almost 11% of revenues to finance this debt. Under Thaksin the ratio of public debt to GDP decreased from just under 58% at the end of 200 to 41.7% in 2006. Yes, you read that right the ratio of public debt to GDP fell under Thaksin. Far from there being a “mountain of debt” the country was in a much more sustainable fiscal position. The so-called “financial ruin” that Thaksin brought to the Thai economy included budget surpluses between 2003-2005.

What do you think the new sufficiency economy government did when they came to power? Instead of running a budget surplus, they are going to run a deficit of 146 billion bahtin the 2007 budget of which 40 billion baht can be blamed on Thaksin. The other 100 billion baht is going to the military and other projects.

http://asiancorrespo...dget-surpluses/

And here : http://asiancorrespo...ough-borrowing/

And here : http://asiancorrespo...sit-government/

You know what is a fallacy dear PhiPhiDon? The fact that you don't understand the difference between household debt and public debt!

Also you use statistics of after the 2006 coup!

Here a 63 page report out 2004 ringing the alarm bells over the fact that the household-debt income ratio doubled!

1) I was referring to your first line nonsense fact about thaksinomics - you didn't read any of the links did you?

2) the household debt is increasing but so is the means to service that debt, therefore

3) the defaults on household loans are decreasing

but judging by the fact that you are so pleased with yourself you probably won't read this post either, then you will understand why I ignore you - not this time granted; but your insults and general behaviour recently is of one seeking attention, so I've given you some attention, just this once.

[MAJIC]

Replying to It's A Hard Road Home For Thaksin

Yes,and the harder the better.but no doubt not hard enough to keep him away permanently, unfortunately.

[MAJIC]

Say what you will about Thaksin, he got things done and people's lives improved when he was in power....eg electricity grid expanded in rural areas; poverty levels slashed in half during his tenure (according to the World Bank report...yeah they made it all up); health care access expanded dramatically; many schools and hospitals built; low income housing built (subsequently abandoned by Dems) leading to half-built "Thaksin villages" all over the place; my mother in law now has a thriving business due to the micro credit facilities which were extended to the rural poor. Did he do some bad stuff and enrich himself...yes of course as many of our politicians do.

The reason that Thaksin is popular is that rural people's lives improved while he was in power, and they associate that improvement with him. Under the Do-nothing-Dems the the improvement in quality of life ground to a halt in the provinces, and people's hopes and aspirations of a better life.

Politics in Thailand are complicated, but what all the poor know for certain is that they are going to get robbed by the elite, and whether it is by the conservative elite or by the elite they are going to get robbed. Would you prefer to be robbed by someone who gives you something back, or by someone who doesn't? Which is why populist politicians will get elected here and which is why the yellow shirts want to deny provincials the vote.

Say what you will....Thaksin is THE figure in Thai politics, and one way or another he has to be dealt with...and for all the swivel-eye right-wing nutters, no I don't mean he should be assassinated...he needs to be brought back into public life and an accommodation made. Ammart do not go to jail in Thailand, the trial was a pig circus, and he should be allowed to appeal and stay on bail for the years and years like the other ammart do.

sure......but did he make the trains run on schedule? perhaps he will meet the same fate as mussolini

Or the curing the gridlock traffic problem in Bangkok,in six months (again) as he promised/

[Skywalker69]

I didn't know the roads in Dubai were that hard. Neither did I think getting to Dubai was that hard.

It's easy for him to go home...... and the sooner the better.

-mel.

On 30 000-33 000 feet above the "Bay of Bengal" it can be really bumpy.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Skywalker69

[GentlemanJim]

phiphidon

Don't you just hate it when all this happens ! Thaksin is an earthworm and yoooooou support him! Looooooser!

Sadly due to your Money Miesters miscalculations this will probably be how communism almost comes to Thailand, how he and his clan piss off to Dubai and how much blood is spilled in Thailand. You should be ashamed of yourself! The reds will have their say and they will dump Thaksin in a nano second. Jatuporn for PM anybody? remember where you heard it first! Thaksins payments of a few million baht to these guys has just got a little bit too little! They now know that they can have their cake and eat it!! Thaksin, Yingluck and the rest are history!

Edited April 29, 2012 by GentlemanJim

[Siam Simon]

phiphidon

Don't you just hate it when all this happens ! Thaksin is an earthworm and yoooooou support him! Looooooser!

Sadly due to your Money Miesters miscalculations this will probably be how communism almost comes to Thailand, how he and his clan piss off to Dubai and how much blood is spilled in Thailand. You should be ashamed of yourself! The reds will have their say and they will dump Thaksin in a nano second. Jatuporn for PM anybody? remember where you heard it first! Thaksins payments of a few million baht to these guys has just got a little bit too little! They now know that they can have their cake and eat it!! Thaksin, Yingluck and the rest are history!

Sadly, Jim, something like that is what usually happens when an assortment of priviledged, greedy oafs hold up a nation's development. The longer the lid is kept on the pan by brute force, the more the pan will eventually boil over.

[yoshiwara]

What some of us would like to know is whether the money laundered through Thaksin's chauffeur is still with the chauffeur. The evidence was never challenged by Thaksin's lawyers and it would have been at one level amusing if Thaksn had appealed, but he didn't.

Thaksin's apologists are swivelling on the edge of their pins. What they want is for him to get a pass on common law (not political) crimes without saying so.

This is their problem. What is also their problem is that whereas they say he is corrupt but so is everybody else and so on, Thaksin isn't pushing this line.

He wants a clean sheet. Something else the apologists dry to dodge.

[metisdead]

Do not change a member's nic to suit your agenda, posts have been removed.

[KireB]

1) I was referring to your first line nonsense fact about thaksinomics - you didn't read any of the links did you?

2) the household debt is increasing but so is the means to service that debt, therefore

3) the defaults on household loans are decreasing

but judging by the fact that you are so pleased with yourself you probably won't read this post either, then you will understand why I ignore you - not this time granted; but your insults and general behaviour recently is of one seeking attention, so I've given you some attention, just this once.

Well I am truly flattered with your attention, cause you have been avoiding my critical arguments and questions recently. Which of course is the foundation of any discussion forum.

Also nice to see that we actually agree on the fact that household debt increased during the Thaksin regime! So we both agree that he made the people poorer over the years, cause taking a loan means you have no money and that the necessity to paying back equals having less than nothing.

You do understand that the ability to borrow doesn't mean you own things. Payback, including interest, is the catch here.

I do feel, however, that the main idea of Thaksinomics, was to stimulate borrowing. His argument was that by increasing loans, public spending power would increase, which would benefit the overall economy. Well this is partly true, I mean mr Thaksin is by no means a fool, but what happened is that those on top of the food chain (the wealthier business owners in society) benefited, but those on the bottom of the food chain became dependent on populist government policies (read: hand outs). Votes guaranteed this way! This is called debt slavery.

That you feel insulted by the fact that you have no clear cut answers on reasonable but critical questions and remarks saddens me a bit, because that indicates that you are mostly biased, clueless and a even bit childish. This is a discussion forum, so be man enough to discus and refute arguments rather than telling me that you don't like my behavior and that , for once, you choose not ignore me.

[Buchholz]

Look at the statistics of the average household debt since he was in power! He made them poorer than broke! All he did was riding the upward economic wave that came after the crisis! He gave handouts, and most important loans! A lot of people upcountry lost their lands to the banks and became slaves of the Thaksin Economics!

Speaking of household debt... it's growing under Thaksin, ver. 4.0

March 30, 2012

The survey found that debt grew by 5.7 per cent year on year to Bt168,517 per household, while the ability to make debt payments averaged Bt10,978 per month, said Thanavath Phonvichai, Director of the Economic and Business Forecasting Centre of the University of the Thai Chamber of Commerce.

http://www.thaivisa....e/#entry5175968

the debt is still growing...

Two out of three families are in debt, survey finds

According to the Thai Family Studies Association, 10.5 million out of 15 million Thai families it surveyed are in debt - and 1.2 million families can't repay their debts.

Association Secretary-General Panpimol Wipulakorn said Tuesday parents were busy working to get money for debt repayment and couldn't take proper care of their kids.

-- The Nation 2012-05-08

[philw]

Look at the statistics of the average household debt since he was in power! He made them poorer than broke! All he did was riding the upward economic wave that came after the crisis! He gave handouts, and most important loans! A lot of people upcountry lost their lands to the banks and became slaves of the Thaksin Economics!

Speaking of household debt... it's growing under Thaksin, ver. 4.0

March 30, 2012

The survey found that debt grew by 5.7 per cent year on year to Bt168,517 per household, while the ability to make debt payments averaged Bt10,978 per month, said Thanavath Phonvichai, Director of the Economic and Business Forecasting Centre of the University of the Thai Chamber of Commerce.

http://www.thaivisa....e/#entry5175968

the debt is still growing...

Two out of three families are in debt, survey finds

According to the Thai Family Studies Association, 10.5 million out of 15 million Thai families it surveyed are in debt - and 1.2 million families can't repay their debts.

Association Secretary-General Panpimol Wipulakorn said Tuesday parents were busy working to get money for debt repayment and couldn't take proper care of their kids.

-- The Nation 2012-05-08

And this is to do with what ??

Everybody is in debt and getting more so.

Per capita debt in the USA ???

Vietnam ??

UK ??

Sad that you repeatedly push these irrelevant posts.

[Buchholz]

Speaking of household debt... it's growing under Thaksin, ver. 4.0

March 30, 2012

The survey found that debt grew by 5.7 per cent year on year to Bt168,517 per household, while the ability to make debt payments averaged Bt10,978 per month, said Thanavath Phonvichai, Director of the Economic and Business Forecasting Centre of the University of the Thai Chamber of Commerce.

http://www.thaivisa....e/#entry5175968

the debt is still growing...

Two out of three families are in debt, survey finds

According to the Thai Family Studies Association, 10.5 million out of 15 million Thai families it surveyed are in debt - and 1.2 million families can't repay their debts.

Association Secretary-General Panpimol Wipulakorn said Tuesday parents were busy working to get money for debt repayment and couldn't take proper care of their kids.

-- The Nation 2012-05-08

And this is to do with what ??

Everybody is in debt and getting more so.

Per capita debt in the USA ???

Vietnam ??

UK ??

Sad that you repeatedly push these irrelevant posts.

The news is certainly relevant to the two-thirds of the entire nation in debt, whom I suspect many are sad about their situation.

Especially the large group in Thailand that is unable to pay their debt and are so far in debt they can't properly care for their children.

Sad you don't see this as an issue. I do.

.

[philw]

phiphidon

Don't you just hate it when all this happens ! Thaksin is an earthworm and yoooooou support him! Looooooser!

Sadly due to your Money Miesters miscalculations this will probably be how communism almost comes to Thailand, how he and his clan piss off to Dubai and how much blood is spilled in Thailand. You should be ashamed of yourself! The reds will have their say and they will dump Thaksin in a nano second. Jatuporn for PM anybody? remember where you heard it first! Thaksins payments of a few million baht to these guys has just got a little bit too little! They now know that they can have their cake and eat it!! Thaksin, Yingluck and the rest are history!

Where is the problem if Thailand chooses communism, socialism or any combination thereof ??

Why is this ipso facto a problem ?

There are many successful socialist countries.

What are you afraid of ?

[rubl]

A bit of topic, but it's interesting to see which countries use 'democratic', 'socialist' or 'people' in their long-form name. None left with 'communist' it seems

http://www.state.gov...nr/rls/4250.htm

[Skywalker69]

phiphidon

Don't you just hate it when all this happens ! Thaksin is an earthworm and yoooooou support him! Looooooser!

Sadly due to your Money Miesters miscalculations this will probably be how communism almost comes to Thailand, how he and his clan piss off to Dubai and how much blood is spilled in Thailand. You should be ashamed of yourself! The reds will have their say and they will dump Thaksin in a nano second. Jatuporn for PM anybody? remember where you heard it first! Thaksins payments of a few million baht to these guys has just got a little bit too little! They now know that they can have their cake and eat it!! Thaksin, Yingluck and the rest are history!

Where is the problem if Thailand chooses communism, socialism or any combination thereof ??

Why is this ipso facto a problem ?

There are many successful socialist countries.

What are you afraid of ?

Witch communist country´s is successful, North Korea or Cuba?

[philw]

A bit of topic, but it's interesting to see which countries use 'democratic', 'socialist' or 'people' in their long-form name. None left with 'communist' it seems

http://www.state.gov...nr/rls/4250.htm

Quite so, if it's got "democratic " in the name, it isn't.

How does "Red Siam" feel ?

Perhaps " Blue Siam" ??

Forgive me for being naughty.

But the fact remains, whatever the Thai people do with their country, it is their decision and theirs alone.

Notwithstanding the propagandists, axe grinders and "frothers" on here.

Incidentally, who coined that nicely descriptive adjective ??

[SomTumTiger]

"Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?" - Henry II of England

[philw]

phiphidon

Don't you just hate it when all this happens ! Thaksin is an earthworm and yoooooou support him! Looooooser!

Sadly due to your Money Miesters miscalculations this will probably be how communism almost comes to Thailand, how he and his clan piss off to Dubai and how much blood is spilled in Thailand. You should be ashamed of yourself! The reds will have their say and they will dump Thaksin in a nano second. Jatuporn for PM anybody? remember where you heard it first! Thaksins payments of a few million baht to these guys has just got a little bit too little! They now know that they can have their cake and eat it!! Thaksin, Yingluck and the rest are history!

Where is the problem if Thailand chooses communism, socialism or any combination thereof ??

Why is this ipso facto a problem ?

There are many successful socialist countries.

What are you afraid of ?

Witch communist country´s is successful, North Korea or Cuba?

Do you mean which or are your referring to MaCarthy like witch hunts ??

Are there any other socialist leaning countries, other than Cuba and N.Korea ??

[hellodolly]

phiphidon

Don't you just hate it when all this happens ! Thaksin is an earthworm and yoooooou support him! Looooooser!

Sadly due to your Money Miesters miscalculations this will probably be how communism almost comes to Thailand, how he and his clan piss off to Dubai and how much blood is spilled in Thailand. You should be ashamed of yourself! The reds will have their say and they will dump Thaksin in a nano second. Jatuporn for PM anybody? remember where you heard it first! Thaksins payments of a few million baht to these guys has just got a little bit too little! They now know that they can have their cake and eat it!! Thaksin, Yingluck and the rest are history!

Where is the problem if Thailand chooses communism, socialism or any combination thereof ??

Why is this ipso facto a problem ?

There are many successful socialist countries.

What are you afraid of ?

Witch communist country´s is successful, North Korea or Cuba?

Do you mean which or are your referring to MaCarthy like witch hunts ??

Are there any other socialist leaning countries, other than Cuba and N.Korea ??

Lao

[rametindallas]

Say what you will about Thaksin, he got things done and people's lives improved when he was in power....eg electricity grid expanded in rural areas; poverty levels slashed in half during his tenure (according to the World Bank report...yeah they made it all up); health care access expanded dramatically; many schools and hospitals built; low income housing built (subsequently abandoned by Dems) leading to half-built "Thaksin villages" all over the place; my mother in law now has a thriving business due to the micro credit facilities which were extended to the rural poor. Did he do some bad stuff and enrich himself...yes of course as many of our politicians do.

The reason that Thaksin is popular is that rural people's lives improved while he was in power, and they associate that improvement with him. Under the Do-nothing-Dems the the improvement in quality of life ground to a halt in the provinces, and people's hopes and aspirations of a better life.

Politics in Thailand are complicated, but what all the poor know for certain is that they are going to get robbed by the elite, and whether it is by the conservative elite or by the elite they are going to get robbed. Would you prefer to be robbed by someone who gives you something back, or by someone who doesn't? Which is why populist politicians will get elected here and which is why the yellow shirts want to deny provincials the vote.

Say what you will....Thaksin is THE figure in Thai politics, and one way or another he has to be dealt with...and for all the swivel-eye right-wing nutters, no I don't mean he should be assassinated...he needs to be brought back into public life and an accommodation made. Ammart do not go to jail in Thailand, the trial was a pig circus, and he should be allowed to appeal and stay on bail for the years and years like the other ammart do.

Mussolini made the Italian trains run on time; but at what cost. Your post is so full of inaccuracies I won't bother to respond to them.

[waza]

phiphidon

Don't you just hate it when all this happens ! Thaksin is an earthworm and yoooooou support him! Looooooser!

Sadly due to your Money Miesters miscalculations this will probably be how communism almost comes to Thailand, how he and his clan piss off to Dubai and how much blood is spilled in Thailand. You should be ashamed of yourself! The reds will have their say and they will dump Thaksin in a nano second. Jatuporn for PM anybody? remember where you heard it first! Thaksins payments of a few million baht to these guys has just got a little bit too little! They now know that they can have their cake and eat it!! Thaksin, Yingluck and the rest are history!

Where is the problem if Thailand chooses communism, socialism or any combination thereof ??

Why is this ipso facto a problem ?

There are many successful socialist countries.

What are you afraid of ?

Witch communist country´s is successful, North Korea or Cuba?

China and Vietnam, Cuba is hamstrung by US embargoes and North Korean is a dictatorship

Edited May 9, 2012 by waza

[Skywalker69]

phiphidon

Don't you just hate it when all this happens ! Thaksin is an earthworm and yoooooou support him! Looooooser!

Sadly due to your Money Miesters miscalculations this will probably be how communism almost comes to Thailand, how he and his clan piss off to Dubai and how much blood is spilled in Thailand. You should be ashamed of yourself! The reds will have their say and they will dump Thaksin in a nano second. Jatuporn for PM anybody? remember where you heard it first! Thaksins payments of a few million baht to these guys has just got a little bit too little! They now know that they can have their cake and eat it!! Thaksin, Yingluck and the rest are history!

Where is the problem if Thailand chooses communism, socialism or any combination thereof ??

Why is this ipso facto a problem ?

There are many successful socialist countries.

What are you afraid of ?

Witch communist country´s is successful, North Korea or Cuba?

China and Vietnam, Cuba is hamstrung by US embargoes and North Korean is a dictatorship

I stand corrected, and I totally agree with your post, thanks.

[pastitche]

phiphidon

Don't you just hate it when all this happens ! Thaksin is an earthworm and yoooooou support him! Looooooser!

Sadly due to your Money Miesters miscalculations this will probably be how communism almost comes to Thailand, how he and his clan piss off to Dubai and how much blood is spilled in Thailand. You should be ashamed of yourself! The reds will have their say and they will dump Thaksin in a nano second. Jatuporn for PM anybody? remember where you heard it first! Thaksins payments of a few million baht to these guys has just got a little bit too little! They now know that they can have their cake and eat it!! Thaksin, Yingluck and the rest are history!

Where is the problem if Thailand chooses communism, socialism or any combination thereof ??

Why is this ipso facto a problem ?

There are many successful socialist countries.

What are you afraid of ?

Witch communist country´s is successful, North Korea or Cuba?

philw said there are many successful socialist countries. Are you equating socialist with communist? North Korea - a military controlled pseudo-monarchy sounds like neither to me; Cuba is not a lot different in its polity but has had the additional problem of the USA's attempts to destroy its economy and its leadership. Scandinavia however does have eminently successful societies which would describe themselves as socialist. Edited May 9, 2012 by pastitche