Businesses Opting For Migrant Workers To Keep Their Costs Low: Bt300 Daily Wage

[webfact]

BT300 DAILY WAGE

Businesses opting for migrant workers to keep their costs low

Skawrat Sirima

The Nation

Tak faces worker shortage as many head for inner city to earn more

TAK: -- Employers in five border districts of Tak face a shortage of workers as many migrants have "escaped" to work in inner cities after the government implemented its Bt300 minimum wage policy.

Due to gaps in the law, many Myanmar workers in Mae Sot have relocated to cities in central areas, while hundreds of millions of baht has circulated in the underground system.

Chaiwat Praserttum, president of the Entrepreneur Association in five districts of Tak province, said factories in the cities were now looking to replace Thai workers with migrants because of the Bt300 minimum daily wage policy for local workers - to cut labour costs.

This trafficking is generally known in Mae Sot, one of the five border districts, which 90 per cent of registered and unregistered workers from Myanmar come through in Thailand.

An agent will gather workers in border areas to meet the demands of city factories. He or she will receive Bt15,000 to Bt18,000 per worker from city employers, who are prepared to hire workers that flee from other employers. This leads to illegal employment and more loopholes for government officers to gain profit.

The five districts are Mae Sot, Phop Phra, Umphang, Mae Ramat and Tha Song Yang.

A source in Mae Sot, who asked not to be named, said 40-50 recruitment agencies have set up offices in the district.

Chaiwat noted the failure of government officers to protect employers and stop migrant workers from travelling to inner provinces even though they are still under contract with employers in border areas.

"The process of labour trafficking is different from what it was in the past. The problem has become more severe because traffickers of migrant workers bring hundreds out of designated areas each day without having to do so discreetly, in disguise or by travelling through forests," Chaiwat said.

"Nowadays, traffickers can openly bring migrant workers to inner areas - profiting from their holding passports. The passport is a loophole in the law and a government system that the workers take advantage of," he said.

Workers claim their passport permit allows them to travel freely across the country. As a result, the police make no attempt to stop their travel. However, working in areas outside of that named on a work permit violates Section 27 of the Immigrant Worker Act, Chaiwat said.

Employers in border areas put up around Bt10,000 per migrant worker to make their employment legal, he said. So, when workers run off or are led by agents to work in other cities, employers lose their money as well as their workforce.

The association agreed with the policy of registering migrant workers. Nevertheless, it felt the state overlooks other difficulties that entrepreneurs in border areas have to face.

Warapan Sae Khow, a construction business owner, said companies have to face debt problems and cannot complete work for customers due to the shortage of labourers. They also worry that workers will run off to the cities for higher pay.

Chaiwat said another problem for employers was the month-long process of acquiring a passport and visa for migrant workers through the Department of Employment, as opposed to the more convenient but much more expensive way of doing this via private companies. He claimed employers were forced to use private companies to avoid the delay, even though they have to pay two or three times more.

Employers agreed to pay Bt5,500 to private companies for the 'nationality verification' of a worker compared to the Bt1,050 fee that would be paid directly to the government agency, he said.

The source in Mae Sot pointed out similar problems with state officials, loopholes in the law and the nationality identification process.

Some private companies benefit greatly from the nationality verification process. Some firms in Myanmar cooperate with those in Thailand to send workers across the border. Later, companies contact and persuade migrants to work in inner areas of Thailand.

The incompetence of state officials and the costly process of legal migrant employment leads some factories to a policy of having a workforce that is half-legal and half-illegal. Employers were willing to pay a middleman for mutual benefit, the source said.

-- The Nation 2012-05-08

[kerryk]

I don't stay in hotels very often as I live in Thailand full time but last weekend being the holiday the GF and I went to the big city and stayed in an expensive hotel and did the town. The Burmese have taken over lower level hospitality jobs. And they are doing a good job. Very polite and very attractive. Good for them. This is probably one of the most important threads to ever appear on Thai Visa. Lots of reasons. I'll, most likely be the only comment.

[chrisinth]

The face of things to come! It maybe playing through loopholes in the law now, but wait for the ASEAN community in 2015/16.

[Thai at Heart]

And it should be stopped immediately. What on earth is the point in having a minimum wage if factories are able to "legally" skirt the issue.

The incompetence of state officials and the costly process of legal migrant employment leads some factories to a policy of having a workforce that is half-legal and half-illegal. Employers were willing to pay a middleman for mutual benefit, the source said.

I note they very carefully skirt around the "c" word. Anyway, should be enough for the police to be going on with in this article to catch the wrongdoers. Thailand claims ridiculously low unemployment numbers, but companies are bitching and moaning about 300 baht as a reason to import labour on the side.

I don't see any point at all in having any social system whatsoever in the country if the plan is that the lowest paid jobs in the country will be filled by imported workers and local employees will be put out of a job. It is bad enough that local companies employ labourers at the minimum which is barely enough to survive anyway, now Thailand has to face a renewed flood of migrant labour into the country. So does this conversely turn around that the 300 baht won't cause inflation because companies will simply employ imported labour at less???????

Edited May 8, 2012 by Thai at Heart

[kerryk]

And it should be stopped immediately. What on earth is the point in having a minimum wage if factories are able to "legally" skirt the issue.

The incompetence of state officials and the costly process of legal migrant employment leads some factories to a policy of having a workforce that is half-legal and half-illegal. Employers were willing to pay a middleman for mutual benefit, the source said.

I note they very carefully skirt around the "c" word. Anyway, should be enough for the police to be going on with in this article to catch the wrongdoers. Thailand claims ridiculously low unemployment numbers, but companies are bitching and moaning about 300 baht as a reason to import labour on the side.

I don't see any point at all in having any social system whatsoever in the country if the plan is that the lowest paid jobs in the country will be filled by imported workers and local employees will be put out of a job. It is bad enough that local companies employ labourers at the minimum which is barely enough to survive anyway, now Thailand has to face a renewed flood of migrant labour into the country. So does this conversely turn around that the 300 baht won't cause inflation because companies will simply employ imported labour at less???????

Of course that is the case. 300 baht won't cause inflation because of Burmese workers. And people don't know who is running this country. Silly.

[Exsexyman]

Not just Thailand, this happens all over the world.Certainly in The UK employers have been importing cheap immigrant labour for years, undercutting and driving down the wages of the local population. Most large building projects, like the Olympic site, roads, hospitals etc have been built with cheap immigrant labour. Go to any town and the bus drivers, taxi drivers, even ambulance drivers are not local. They even have to have sat navs to do the job properly. There have even been cases where public contracts awarded by the Government, ie, the taxpayer, only allow foreign workers to apply for the jobs. For these workers the rates of pay represent a small fortune compared with what they would earn in their home countries. The local population cannot realistically compete, for example, i know a few guys who are heavy goods vehicle drivers, class 1, who's hourly rate is now less than it was twenty years ago. But it is now "Take it or leave it i'm afraid".

[sparebox2]

Thailand will join AEC in 2018. There will be no such thing as migrant workers anymore.

[Thai at Heart]

Not just Thailand, this happens all over the world.Certainly in The UK employers have been importing cheap immigrant labour for years, undercutting and driving down the wages of the local population. Most large building projects, like the Olympic site, roads, hospitals etc have been built with cheap immigrant labour. Go to any town and the bus drivers, taxi drivers, even ambulance drivers are not local. They even have to have sat navs to do the job properly. There have even been cases where public contracts awarded by the Government, ie, the taxpayer, only allow foreign workers to apply for the jobs. For these workers the rates of pay represent a small fortune compared with what they would earn in their home countries. The local population cannot realistically compete, for example, i know a few guys who are heavy goods vehicle drivers, class 1, who's hourly rate is now less than it was twenty years ago. But it is now "Take it or leave it i'm afraid".

But the companies run a risk if they pay below British legal minimum wage at least. Thai companies shouldn't be allowed to pay below minimum for imported labour. The system has to be to create a minimum for ALL labourers irrespective, or you create an economic and social mess.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Thai at Heart

[kerryk]

Not just Thailand, this happens all over the world.Certainly in The UK employers have been importing cheap immigrant labour for years, undercutting and driving down the wages of the local population. Most large building projects, like the Olympic site, roads, hospitals etc have been built with cheap immigrant labour. Go to any town and the bus drivers, taxi drivers, even ambulance drivers are not local. They even have to have sat navs to do the job properly. There have even been cases where public contracts awarded by the Government, ie, the taxpayer, only allow foreign workers to apply for the jobs. For these workers the rates of pay represent a small fortune compared with what they would earn in their home countries. The local population cannot realistically compete, for example, i know a few guys who are heavy goods vehicle drivers, class 1, who's hourly rate is now less than it was twenty years ago. But it is now "Take it or leave it i'm afraid".

But the companies run a risk if they pay below British legal minimum wage at least. Thai companies shouldn't be allowed to pay below minimum for imported labour. The system has to be to create a minimum for ALL labourers irrespective, or you create an economic and social mess.

Why would a company pay more than it has to for labor? A company will pay the lowest rate possible. That is how the system works. Adjust your thinking. The company will pay the market rate for labor and materials. A business in not a charity. Business make money or go out of business. I think what is important is to figure out how this will effect Thailand rather than wax socialistic about what is right and wrong. Personally I like the Burmese workers. I wonder how long it will take them to learn to dance? The men of course don't work so that's a non issue.

[Thai at Heart]

Not just Thailand, this happens all over the world.Certainly in The UK employers have been importing cheap immigrant labour for years, undercutting and driving down the wages of the local population. Most large building projects, like the Olympic site, roads, hospitals etc have been built with cheap immigrant labour. Go to any town and the bus drivers, taxi drivers, even ambulance drivers are not local. They even have to have sat navs to do the job properly. There have even been cases where public contracts awarded by the Government, ie, the taxpayer, only allow foreign workers to apply for the jobs. For these workers the rates of pay represent a small fortune compared with what they would earn in their home countries. The local population cannot realistically compete, for example, i know a few guys who are heavy goods vehicle drivers, class 1, who's hourly rate is now less than it was twenty years ago. But it is now "Take it or leave it i'm afraid".

But the companies run a risk if they pay below British legal minimum wage at least. Thai companies shouldn't be allowed to pay below minimum for imported labour. The system has to be to create a minimum for ALL labourers irrespective, or you create an economic and social mess.

Why would a company pay more than it has to for labor? A company will pay the lowest rate possible. That is how the system works. Adjust your thinking. The company will pay the market rate for labor and materials. A business in not a charity. Business make money or go out of business. I think what is important is to figure out how this will effect Thailand rather than wax socialistic about what is right and wrong. Personally I like the Burmese workers. I wonder how long it will take them to learn to dance? The men of course don't work so that's a non issue.

Of course they will try to pay as little as possible, that is why you have minimum wages, to protect exploitation and to provide a minimum living wage. By "legally" allowing companies to circumvent it, you are actually damaging the Thai workforce, which is the complete opposite of why the legal minimum should exist. Minimum wage in the UK is for all workers, and to pay less is illegal irrespective of where the worker comes from. Just because you can subject Burmese to slave wages, doesn't mean you should be able to do so.

Or does Thailand want to have to deal with potentially millions of extra migrant labourers inside the country?

Companies should have to pay minimum to WHOEVER they employ, simple really.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Thai at Heart

[kerryk]

Not just Thailand, this happens all over the world.Certainly in The UK employers have been importing cheap immigrant labour for years, undercutting and driving down the wages of the local population. Most large building projects, like the Olympic site, roads, hospitals etc have been built with cheap immigrant labour. Go to any town and the bus drivers, taxi drivers, even ambulance drivers are not local. They even have to have sat navs to do the job properly. There have even been cases where public contracts awarded by the Government, ie, the taxpayer, only allow foreign workers to apply for the jobs. For these workers the rates of pay represent a small fortune compared with what they would earn in their home countries. The local population cannot realistically compete, for example, i know a few guys who are heavy goods vehicle drivers, class 1, who's hourly rate is now less than it was twenty years ago. But it is now "Take it or leave it i'm afraid".

But the companies run a risk if they pay below British legal minimum wage at least. Thai companies shouldn't be allowed to pay below minimum for imported labour. The system has to be to create a minimum for ALL labourers irrespective, or you create an economic and social mess.

Why would a company pay more than it has to for labor? A company will pay the lowest rate possible. That is how the system works. Adjust your thinking. The company will pay the market rate for labor and materials. A business in not a charity. Business make money or go out of business. I think what is important is to figure out how this will effect Thailand rather than wax socialistic about what is right and wrong. Personally I like the Burmese workers. I wonder how long it will take them to learn to dance? The men of course don't work so that's a non issue.

Of course they will try to pay as little as possible, that is why you have minimum wages, to protect exploitation and to provide a minimum living wage. By "legally" allowing companies to circumvent it, you are actually damaging the Thai workforce, which is the complete opposite of why the legal minimum should exist. Minimum wage in the UK is for all workers, and to pay less is illegal irrespective of where the worker comes from. Just because you can subject Burmese to slave wages, doesn't mean you should be able to do so.

Or does Thailand want to have to deal with potentially millions of extra migrant labourers inside the country?

Companies should have to pay minimum to WHOEVER they employ, simple really.

Should is the key word in your post. Who says should? The company? It's stockholders? The politicians that are in the company's pocket? Of course the people who run Thailand want millions of migrant laborers in the country as it makes real wages lower. My hotel room was cheaper because of Burmese labor. My shirt is cheaper because of Burmese labor. My only question is when it will trickle down to the bar level. I would estimate currently only 10% of bar employees are Burmese.

[Exsexyman]

Not just Thailand, this happens all over the world.Certainly in The UK employers have been importing cheap immigrant labour for years, undercutting and driving down the wages of the local population. Most large building projects, like the Olympic site, roads, hospitals etc have been built with cheap immigrant labour. Go to any town and the bus drivers, taxi drivers, even ambulance drivers are not local. They even have to have sat navs to do the job properly. There have even been cases where public contracts awarded by the Government, ie, the taxpayer, only allow foreign workers to apply for the jobs. For these workers the rates of pay represent a small fortune compared with what they would earn in their home countries. The local population cannot realistically compete, for example, i know a few guys who are heavy goods vehicle drivers, class 1, who's hourly rate is now less than it was twenty years ago. But it is now "Take it or leave it i'm afraid".

But the companies run a risk if they pay below British legal minimum wage at least. Thai companies shouldn't be allowed to pay below minimum for imported labour. The system has to be to create a minimum for ALL labourers irrespective, or you create an economic and social mess.

There is a thriving black economy in The UK, as i suspect there is in most developed countries. Loads of companies flouting the minimum wage laws paying cash in hand at below the minimum wage. Even on publicly funded contracts. Governments just turn a blind eye.

[Thai at Heart]

Should is the key word in your post. Who says should? The company? It's stockholders? The politicians that are in the company's pocket? Of course the people who run Thailand want millions of migrant laborers in the country as it makes real wages lower. My hotel room was cheaper because of Burmese labor. My shirt is cheaper because of Burmese labor. My only question is when it will trickle down to the bar level. I would estimate currently only 10% of bar employees are Burmese.

And it will put millions of Thais out of jobs. If that is what is wanted, lets wait and see where Thailand ends up in 5 years time. We aren't talking about a country with massive social safety nets here. If millions of 300 baht a day workers are bid out of jobs by Burmese on 200 baht a day, what the hell is going to happen to society here? This isn't Saudi where the GDP per head is 30k+ USD per year.

I was in a chicken processing factory the other day, world class installation, 2 Japanese managers, maybe 20 Thai middle managers, and over 1000 Cambodians living in apartments specifically built for housing them. 95% of the product exported to Japan. The entire business model of the place was based around essentially exploiting Cambodian wage rates whilst securing investment under Thai law. All very well and good you could say, but after asking around, they never actually advertised the jobs for the local population to apply, so whilst a few middle guys get paid, the economic benefits of the investment fly their way across the border to Cambodia every month.

[brit1984]

Not just Thailand, this happens all over the world.Certainly in The UK employers have been importing cheap immigrant labour for years, undercutting and driving down the wages of the local population. Most large building projects, like the Olympic site, roads, hospitals etc have been built with cheap immigrant labour. Go to any town and the bus drivers, taxi drivers, even ambulance drivers are not local. They even have to have sat navs to do the job properly. There have even been cases where public contracts awarded by the Government, ie, the taxpayer, only allow foreign workers to apply for the jobs. For these workers the rates of pay represent a small fortune compared with what they would earn in their home countries. The local population cannot realistically compete, for example, i know a few guys who are heavy goods vehicle drivers, class 1, who's hourly rate is now less than it was twenty years ago. But it is now "Take it or leave it i'm afraid".

But the companies run a risk if they pay below British legal minimum wage at least. Thai companies shouldn't be allowed to pay below minimum for imported labour. The system has to be to create a minimum for ALL labourers irrespective, or you create an economic and social mess.

Why would a company pay more than it has to for labor? A company will pay the lowest rate possible. That is how the system works. Adjust your thinking. The company will pay the market rate for labor and materials. A business in not a charity. Business make money or go out of business. I think what is important is to figure out how this will effect Thailand rather than wax socialistic about what is right and wrong. Personally I like the Burmese workers. I wonder how long it will take them to learn to dance? The men of course don't work so that's a non issue.

Of course they will try to pay as little as possible, that is why you have minimum wages, to protect exploitation and to provide a minimum living wage. By "legally" allowing companies to circumvent it, you are actually damaging the Thai workforce, which is the complete opposite of why the legal minimum should exist. Minimum wage in the UK is for all workers, and to pay less is illegal irrespective of where the worker comes from. Just because you can subject Burmese to slave wages, doesn't mean you should be able to do so.

Or does Thailand want to have to deal with potentially millions of extra migrant labourers inside the country?

Companies should have to pay minimum to WHOEVER they employ, simple really.

I get the impression you live between the pages of a textbook, written (while drunk I assume) by a left-leaning philosopher...

[kerryk]

Should is the key word in your post. Who says should? The company? It's stockholders? The politicians that are in the company's pocket? Of course the people who run Thailand want millions of migrant laborers in the country as it makes real wages lower. My hotel room was cheaper because of Burmese labor. My shirt is cheaper because of Burmese labor. My only question is when it will trickle down to the bar level. I would estimate currently only 10% of bar employees are Burmese.

And it will put millions of Thais out of jobs. If that is what is wanted, lets wait and see where Thailand ends up in 5 years time. We aren't talking about a country with massive social safety nets here. If millions of 300 baht a day workers are bid out of jobs by Burmese on 200 baht a day, what the hell is going to happen to society here? This isn't Saudi where the GDP per head is 30k+ USD per year.

I was in a chicken processing factory the other day, world class installation, 2 Japanese managers, maybe 20 Thai middle managers, and over 1000 Cambodians living in apartments specifically built for housing them. 95% of the product exported to Japan. The entire business model of the place was based around essentially exploiting Cambodian wage rates whilst securing investment under Thai law. All very well and good you could say, but after asking around, they never actually advertised the jobs for the local population to apply, so whilst a few middle guys get paid, the economic benefits of the investment fly their way across the border to Cambodia every month.

Get with the program. The Thais go to Australia. This all works. Where the Aussies go I don't know. But this is not an Aussie Econ thread anyway.

[gand]

Is this not another form of human trafficking?

[Thai at Heart]

I get the impression you live between the pages of a textbook, written (while drunk I assume) by a left-leaning philosopher...

Not at all, minimum wages have been introduced all over the world, by countries left and right leaning. As for being drunk, well, a little early in the day, but a rather poor attempt at a personal attack it would appear.

Minimum wages are a way to stop exploitation of workers. Even Henry Ford worked that out a long time ago. The effects of moving large populations of under minimum wage workers into countries has been studied for a long time, and the problems about what to do with this "new" population has been studied for ages and it does present difficulties. I would suggest that if the companies want to use Cambodian or Burmese labour, they should relocate over there.

Thailand and many other countries have a minimum wage, and have had for many decades, so I don't know why you are suggesting that preventing exploitation in and of itself is a bad thing. As for the effects, if you allow the minimum to be circumvented legally by importing labour, I would suggest that the increase in unemployment and social problems associated with this outweighs the overall economic benefits of compelling companies to pay the local labour force, rather than resorting to importing labour.

Why not import all foreign labourers into the country, for all jobs, so that the Thai's can sun themselves on their deck having a beer whilst all the jobs are done by others? Oh of course, that would mean the country would have to provide for 100 million people.

We are forever told that Thailand is for Thai's, unless of course you are a minimum wage worker, where you face unemployment because your job will be taken by an import. Hardly the point of the policy at all.

[kerryk]

Is this not another form of human trafficking?

You think the workers don't want to go? What kind of NGO la la land do you live in. I have moved to 20 different countries for employment because they offered higher wages. Everyone in the Philippines wants to leave ask them. Burma! Ha ha, you got to be kidding. You think people don't want to live in Thailand rather than Burma?

Since you don't know. Let me give you the pecking order. Burma is at the bottom followed by Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam then comes Thailand and Australia. Which are interchangeable depending on your gender.

[kerryk]

I get the impression you live between the pages of a textbook, written (while drunk I assume) by a left-leaning philosopher...

Not at all, minimum wages have been introduced all over the world, by countries left and right leaning. As for being drunk, well, a little early in the day, but a rather poor attempt at a personal attack it would appear.

Minimum wages are a way to stop exploitation of workers. Even Henry Ford worked that out a long time ago. The effects of moving large populations of under minimum wage workers into countries has been studied for a long time, and the problems about what to do with this "new" population has been studied for ages and it does present difficulties. I would suggest that if the companies want to use Cambodian or Burmese labour, they should relocate over there.

Thailand and many other countries have a minimum wage, and have had for many decades, so I don't know why you are suggesting that preventing exploitation in and of itself is a bad thing. As for the effects, if you allow the minimum to be circumvented legally by importing labour, I would suggest that the increase in unemployment and social problems associated with this outweighs the overall economic benefits of compelling companies to pay the local labour force, rather than resorting to importing labour.

Why not import all foreign labourers into the country, for all jobs, so that the Thai's can sun themselves on their deck having a beer whilst all the jobs are done by others? Oh of course, that would mean the country would have to provide for 100 million people.

We are forever told that Thailand is for Thai's, unless of course you are a minimum wage worker, where you face unemployment because your job will be taken by an import. Hardly the point of the policy at all.

Just a note about Henry Ford. He only paid workers so they could buy Ford cars. If he could of he would have had slaves. Henry was not a nice guy. He machine gunned workers trying to strike at one of his plants. I know because my grandfather was there. One of the bloodiest chapters in Detroit labor history: the Ford Hunger March of 1932.

[Thai at Heart]

I get the impression you live between the pages of a textbook, written (while drunk I assume) by a left-leaning philosopher...

Not at all, minimum wages have been introduced all over the world, by countries left and right leaning. As for being drunk, well, a little early in the day, but a rather poor attempt at a personal attack it would appear.

Minimum wages are a way to stop exploitation of workers. Even Henry Ford worked that out a long time ago. The effects of moving large populations of under minimum wage workers into countries has been studied for a long time, and the problems about what to do with this "new" population has been studied for ages and it does present difficulties. I would suggest that if the companies want to use Cambodian or Burmese labour, they should relocate over there.

Thailand and many other countries have a minimum wage, and have had for many decades, so I don't know why you are suggesting that preventing exploitation in and of itself is a bad thing. As for the effects, if you allow the minimum to be circumvented legally by importing labour, I would suggest that the increase in unemployment and social problems associated with this outweighs the overall economic benefits of compelling companies to pay the local labour force, rather than resorting to importing labour.

Why not import all foreign labourers into the country, for all jobs, so that the Thai's can sun themselves on their deck having a beer whilst all the jobs are done by others? Oh of course, that would mean the country would have to provide for 100 million people.

We are forever told that Thailand is for Thai's, unless of course you are a minimum wage worker, where you face unemployment because your job will be taken by an import. Hardly the point of the policy at all.

Just a note about Henry Ford. He only paid workers so they could buy Ford cars. If he could of he would have had slaves. Henry was not a nice guy. He machine gunned workers trying to strike at one of his plants. I know because my grandfather was there. One of the bloodiest chapters in Detroit labor history: the Ford Hunger March of 1932.

That is exactly the point. There is a very large benefit to having a population within a country capable of consuming the products that it makes. Paying the minimum to ALL workers keeps money moving around far better than bidding the local population out of a job so that the earnings can be exported.

I am right of centre in my business and political views, but completely unregulated free markets have costs too.

[MEL1]

"My hotel room was cheaper because of Burmese labor. My shirt is cheaper because of Burmese labor. My only question is when it will trickle down to the bar level. I would estimate currently only 10% of bar employees are Burmese."

---

I hope you're not hoping for cheaper drinks...

-mel.

[kerryk]

"My hotel room was cheaper because of Burmese labor. My shirt is cheaper because of Burmese labor. My only question is when it will trickle down to the bar level. I would estimate currently only 10% of bar employees are Burmese."

---

I hope you're not hoping for cheaper drinks...

-mel.

Since I don't drink I was hoping for a reduction in labor costs.

[brit1984]

I get the impression you live between the pages of a textbook, written (while drunk I assume) by a left-leaning philosopher...

Not at all, minimum wages have been introduced all over the world, by countries left and right leaning. As for being drunk, well, a little early in the day, but a rather poor attempt at a personal attack it would appear.

Minimum wages are a way to stop exploitation of workers. Even Henry Ford worked that out a long time ago. The effects of moving large populations of under minimum wage workers into countries has been studied for a long time, and the problems about what to do with this "new" population has been studied for ages and it does present difficulties. I would suggest that if the companies want to use Cambodian or Burmese labour, they should relocate over there.

Thailand and many other countries have a minimum wage, and have had for many decades, so I don't know why you are suggesting that preventing exploitation in and of itself is a bad thing. As for the effects, if you allow the minimum to be circumvented legally by importing labour, I would suggest that the increase in unemployment and social problems associated with this outweighs the overall economic benefits of compelling companies to pay the local labour force, rather than resorting to importing labour.

Why not import all foreign labourers into the country, for all jobs, so that the Thai's can sun themselves on their deck having a beer whilst all the jobs are done by others? Oh of course, that would mean the country would have to provide for 100 million people.

We are forever told that Thailand is for Thai's, unless of course you are a minimum wage worker, where you face unemployment because your job will be taken by an import. Hardly the point of the policy at all.

I was not arguing with what you said, per se, but rather with the way you said it... whenever someone says "companies should" and follows that with non profit related objectives, I get slightly confused...

[Thai at Heart]

This is best summed up by then Finance Minister Korn in a speech in Korea as reported by the Bangkok Post last year:

Corporate income tax revenues have doubled since the 1998 crisis, he said, while minimum wages have fallen when adjusted for inflation.

One course for the country may be in a new economic model based on tourism or auto clusters. This will help diversify the economy and narrow the income gap, he said.

“In the export sector, only the [company] owners or shareholders benefit from the earnings, while employees earn [minimum] wages,

” Mr Korn said.

“Yes, low wages are one key factor why foreign companies invest in Thailand.

But in the end, low wages also contribute to the income gap.

“

http://asiancorrespondent.com/59651/increase-in-the-daily-minimum-wage-puea-thais-first-big-test-part-1/

[Thai at Heart]

I get the impression you live between the pages of a textbook, written (while drunk I assume) by a left-leaning philosopher...

Not at all, minimum wages have been introduced all over the world, by countries left and right leaning. As for being drunk, well, a little early in the day, but a rather poor attempt at a personal attack it would appear.

Minimum wages are a way to stop exploitation of workers. Even Henry Ford worked that out a long time ago. The effects of moving large populations of under minimum wage workers into countries has been studied for a long time, and the problems about what to do with this "new" population has been studied for ages and it does present difficulties. I would suggest that if the companies want to use Cambodian or Burmese labour, they should relocate over there.

Thailand and many other countries have a minimum wage, and have had for many decades, so I don't know why you are suggesting that preventing exploitation in and of itself is a bad thing. As for the effects, if you allow the minimum to be circumvented legally by importing labour, I would suggest that the increase in unemployment and social problems associated with this outweighs the overall economic benefits of compelling companies to pay the local labour force, rather than resorting to importing labour.

Why not import all foreign labourers into the country, for all jobs, so that the Thai's can sun themselves on their deck having a beer whilst all the jobs are done by others? Oh of course, that would mean the country would have to provide for 100 million people.

We are forever told that Thailand is for Thai's, unless of course you are a minimum wage worker, where you face unemployment because your job will be taken by an import. Hardly the point of the policy at all.

I was not arguing with what you said, per se, but rather with the way you said it... whenever someone says "companies should" and follows that with non profit related objectives, I get slightly confused...

Ah well, I don't expect a company to pay a penny more than they have to.

[samran]

A lot of misinformation on this post.

Is there a black market for undocumented workers? Yes.

But there is also a very well known and pretty well run scheme called the 'Migrant Labour Programme".

It is available to the nationals of Burma, Laos and Cambodia and allows Thai persons, Thai companies and Thai legal residents to hire people from these countries under this scheme, with much less bureacracy and with the typical hurdles taken away (eg. Thai/foreigner ratios, paid up capital etc).

The hired migrant gets:

- a 2 year work permit

- Temporary ID card

- Access to social services, including medical coverage at a nominated hospital

They are also required to be paid under Thai minimum wages laws.

Alot of employers ignore the above programme and hire their workers illegally.

Many also use the programme, as they get sick of bribing the officials if they get caught, and they also find that the cost of registering their workers properly is alot less than doing it illegally.

Edited May 8, 2012 by samran

[bhakta]

I've noted at the driving ranges near-by here in Samut Prakarn, and on the golf courses, there are many caddies who are not from Thailand. Some are from Burma, others from Cambodia, and other places.

[gand]

What is the point of raising minimum wage for Thai workers if you allow thai companies to give the jobs to illegals instead?

Was it an election gimmick?

[samran]

What is the point of raising minimum wage for Thai workers if you allow thai companies to give the jobs to illegals instead?

Was it an election gimmick?

You raise the minimum wage for Thai workers to get votes.

You broaden the labour market to control wage pressures in the economy. One of the nasty reasons which lets Thailand be a relatively low cost country for you and I to live in.

Oh, and migrants have been allowed to work in Thailand for years. This isn't a new thing.

[Exsexyman]

I get the impression you live between the pages of a textbook, written (while drunk I assume) by a left-leaning philosopher...

Not at all, minimum wages have been introduced all over the world, by countries left and right leaning. As for being drunk, well, a little early in the day, but a rather poor attempt at a personal attack it would appear.

Minimum wages are a way to stop exploitation of workers. Even Henry Ford worked that out a long time ago. The effects of moving large populations of under minimum wage workers into countries has been studied for a long time, and the problems about what to do with this "new" population has been studied for ages and it does present difficulties. I would suggest that if the companies want to use Cambodian or Burmese labour, they should relocate over there.

Thailand and many other countries have a minimum wage, and have had for many decades, so I don't know why you are suggesting that preventing exploitation in and of itself is a bad thing. As for the effects, if you allow the minimum to be circumvented legally by importing labour, I would suggest that the increase in unemployment and social problems associated with this outweighs the overall economic benefits of compelling companies to pay the local labour force, rather than resorting to importing labour.

Why not import all foreign labourers into the country, for all jobs, so that the Thai's can sun themselves on their deck having a beer whilst all the jobs are done by others? Oh of course, that would mean the country would have to provide for 100 million people.

We are forever told that Thailand is for Thai's, unless of course you are a minimum wage worker, where you face unemployment because your job will be taken by an import. Hardly the point of the policy at all.

Nothing to do with political philosophy left or right, just basic humanitarian common decency. Why not just take it to it's logical conclusion, Cambodian workers on fishing boats washed up after being thrown overboard to save paying them. Cambodians on construction sites working for weeks and then not being paid even their pitiful wages when the contractor does a runner, or more usually throws them in to immigration, and then imports another bunch of poor mugs. But hey, this is just market forces at work. In the world KerryK inhabits, nothing wrong with slave labour just as long as he can have cheap hotel rooms and cheap shirts. Classy!