Can Someone Help

[Markland]

I have initiated a lawsuit criminal case for fraud 4 million baht.A women defrauded me and i went to court two times.Second time the court judge interviewed me.The defendant did not turn up a decision was then made.I was advised to use a lawyer on the east side.I wish i had not anyway she has to come to court july 20th to defend herself.

My lawyer before had a good translator but he went missing so i asked my lawyer today what was going on

and i got this in english the translation is not good and trying to figure out what he means is difficult

"the court has ordered that.Look for evidence of the plaintiff in the prliminary

examination shows that the value of the plaintiff under the criminal code,section 341 is to initiate a lawsuit for consideration.

Make an appoitment with the word of the defendent or the date of the hearing date on juy 20 2555 at 9 am.

Penal code section 341 is to be made by the defendant against the plaintiff.The plaintiff said the defendent was fraudulent money"

ok this is word for word exactly what i got today.I cannot make any sense of it.

Can anyone have a guess ?

[MJCM]

^ Could you get the the Original Thai text ?? Then you can post that in the Thai Language section and someone will translate it for you.

[ThaidDown]

Good point by MJCM, just guessing as to what the "translation" means is not going to be particularly helpful. For instance

"Make an appoitment with the word of the defendent or the date of the hearing date on juy 20 2555 at 9 am."

could be a request by the court to meet the defendant and try for an out of court settlement before july 20, it is usual, I believe for judges in cases like this to request trying for such a settlement.

".Penal code section 341 is to be made by the defendant against the plaintiff."

seems to suggest that the defendant is counterclaiming.

For info section 341 is as follows

Section 341 Whoever, dishonestly deceives a person with the assertion of a falsehood or

theconcealment of the facts which should be revealed, and, by such deception, obtains

aproperty from the person so deceived or a third person, or causes the person so deceived ora third person to execute, revoke or destroy a document of right, is

said to commit the offence of cheating and fraud, and shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding threeyears or fined not exceeding six thousand Baht, or both.

Better to go with MJCM's suggestion if nobody in your lawyers office can give you a better translation.

[johnlexo]

There is a travel agent/office just about opposite the Post office on Soi Post Office, I think the name is *MG Enterprise* with red/black sign. The guy in the back is a translator. He is very good, very fast and very fair priced. About 300/page for difficult text/contracts. Done many jobs for me and have always been very pleased. Have a talk with him and good luck with your case. JL.

[prefabs]

Are you sure it is a criminal case? Or civil case. No mention of police anywhere in your OP. If you are this far advanced and having to ask members on here about what your lawyer is trying to tell you, then I would be a little concerned.

I would also be concerned about the lawyers seem to work in the court in Pattaya. Over 5 years I noticed that the "next appointment" was being arranged before the judge had even started that day.

Reason I am asking is that I know for sure (I am one of them) that a case where farangs were defrauded ended up being 3 different types of case. First was civil cos the police would not touch it, then it becase consumer, then eventually became criminal. Still ended up with little result.

[Gaccha]

Request Thai version. Scan Thai version and post in thaivisa language forum, and then you'll get your answer.

**posted quickly from phone**

[johnlexo]

Correction: MG / Translator opp. Post office / Soi post office. The guy has many years of experience and might be able to explain. Good luck. JL.

[Markland]

thank you for all your replies i tried to reply to all of them but could not post.My lawyer say criminal case.We are saying that she defrauded me out of money.

Two times i have been to court

first time she has solicitor go for her and solicoter tell us she want to make a deal so

a month later we back in court my solicotor told me dont worry everything will be fine

to my shock she never turned up and solicotor said no deal.So the judge asked me questions.She was a women judge.Spent a hour answering questions then the court and the court prosecutor inform my solicitor that they will make a decision in 5 days

in 5 days court decision was made that another date now set for the 20th of july

My lawyer says this time if she not appear she will be arrested.

i am trying to press criminal charges.My hope would be for settlement before the 20th of july.So i was happy with that news i was thinking the court believe my story and accept the case

so today i just go in and say hello to my lawyer just as a check up and he give me that paper in writing.

He was very busy but gave me the impression that everything ok everything good

but now after coming home and sitting down reading this i am far from good

i get the impression that i am being taken for a ride.My english is not perfect but his english is far worse then mine

.I was recommended to him by another foreigner.But i am not feeling to comfortable now

is she counter suing me ? if she was wouldn't i receive some paperwork from her lawyer claiming this.

Is my lawyer telling me lies that this is a criminal case ?

i think it is criminal because i think civil would take years

i already spend 120 thousand baht on lawyer fees and if we win case he(my lawyer) gets a third of what we get back from her.

before i would of been happy with 3 but now after thinking about this clearly i will be lucky to get one baht back

i will ask for thai version and do what you guys advise

i hope he doesn't make up some excuse to say he doesn't have

to the op further up no the police were never involved.we had the idea that if we persued criminal with the police that they would just tell us to go away

i knew they would not take the case so i got lawyer

i should of stuck with my original lawyer

Edited May 15, 2012 by Markland

[Markland]

Reason I am asking is that I know for sure (I am one of them) that a case where farangs were defrauded ended up being 3 different types of case. First was civil cos the police would not touch it, then it becase consumer, then eventually became criminal. Still ended up with little result.

prefab my lawyer say we do criminal first and if we dont win criminal we try civil

my friend say if i dont wwin criminal then avoid civil because i am throwing money away

i had similar trouble when first arrived in pattaya now i have this problem

i was not n a relationship with this women

i was stupid i tried to help but it was all a plan to take my money

very creative lies.I admit i was stupid if i dont win then that is life

but i need to minimum try hard to make sure she dont try do this again.Put some fear into her

now i am the one who is fearful.Fearful that my lawyer doesn't know the law

Edited May 15, 2012 by Markland

[prefabs]

Knowing what I do of the court system in Pattaya, it may be years before you see any money. If she has not managed to hide it, gamble it, give it away. A group of us started legal action over 5 years ago with a property scam. Even after winning many judgements against the guy, he has still not paid out a penny. Not sure now, but at one time the guy had over 20 court cases going on concurrently. Because of the slow action from the courts, he has been allowed to continue with his scam. It is still going on and it seems the courts can do nothing about it. He seems to WANT people to sue him as nothing seems to happen.

[Markland]

Knowing what I do of the court system in Pattaya, it may be years before you see any money. If she has not managed to hide it, gamble it, give it away. A group of us started legal action over 5 years ago with a property scam. Even after winning many judgements against the guy, he has still not paid out a penny. Not sure now, but at one time the guy had over 20 court cases going on concurrently. Because of the slow action from the courts, he has been allowed to continue with his scam. It is still going on and it seems the courts can do nothing about it. He seems to WANT people to sue him as nothing seems to happen.

That has brightened my day not

but i agree i will maybe never see one baht

but i will keep on try

[Darrel]

i already spend 120 thousand baht on lawyer fees and if we win case he(my lawyer) gets a third of what we get back from her.

If he is working on commission then you shouldnt be paying fees. If you are paying fees then he should get no commission.

I would get another lawyer though my personal opinion is that you are probably on a downhill slope to nowhere and will end up giving lawyers a lot of money without ever seeing your original 4MB back.

[smedly]

perhaps you would share more details about what happened, if nothing else it may help prevent someone else falling for this one, I can't imagine how anyone could scam me out of that amount of money even in LOS

[gamini]

I used 4 different lawyers to try and get money for the property we sold via an English property agent. Everyone of them was dishonest. We took the first one to the Lawyers court but they all stood behind him. We spent 1.5 million in lawyers fees and after two years we ended up with nothing.

[prefabs]

There was a reported case recently where an English man had 4m baht stolen. The person who took his money was named in another web site, she is the wif/spouse/girlfriend of one of the media people in Pattaya. All she says is that she lent the money to someone, who did not return it. Looks like case closed

[prefabs]

Markland, I am not trying to depress you, I started my action in 2007 January. I eventually won my case, but no money forthcoming. Many people have won their case against the same guy, with similar results. So, best yo hunker down, get the supplies in and be prepared for a long one.

Some ways of delaying a court case, from my experience. It is an art, I swear I could see opposing lawyers discussing this BEFORE proceedings started each time.

Defendant almost never has to attend, long as he is represented. So, any questions the judge asks, the defending lawyer just says"I will ask him". Case adjourned.

One outstanding question in my case was asked and not yet answered. The defendant's lawyer was saying he could not sell a house to me as I was a farang. (even though he had taken my money and he wrote the contract). The judge simply asked why they could not repay the money in that case. Lawyer says, "I will need to ask him". case adjourned again.

Defendant lawyer says his client is on business in China. This was strange as we saw him the day before, so he knew about the case. OK says Judge, case adjourned again. Immediately after the court, the defendant was at my friend's house threatening him. When we asked about contempt of court for lying to a judge, our lawyer said "hard to prove"

Appeals. There are appeals at every corner. Most take 18 months to even get into court, then new court dates are required again before the merry go round continues

[Markland]

It is ok prefab and i think i know what case you are talking about

i was prepared to be in this for the long way that is no problem because up to yesterday i was not stressed

now i have to try to get original documents in thai

i don't know is my lawyer up to scratch

[Markland]

perhaps you would share more details about what happened, if nothing else it may help prevent someone else falling for this one, I can't imagine how anyone could scam me out of that amount of money even in LOS

yes i will ty this weekend.It is a long story

[Markland]

I used 4 different lawyers to try and get money for the property we sold via an English property agent. Everyone of them was dishonest. We took the first one to the Lawyers court but they all stood behind him. We spent 1.5 million in lawyers fees and after two years we ended up with nothing.

Sorry to hear about that.Who was the agent ? )pm)

[Ohyesuare]

Can you share your story? Very interested to hear how a woman you were not in a relationship with was able to defraud you of so much money.

[smedly]

starting to sound like a common story here in LOS were a legal representative or an estate agent recieves funds for the sale of a property you tasked with them and they kept the money - I have heard many stories like this

If this person is falang is it possible to pursue them through their own country ?

I think if I ever bought or sold anything here I would make sure the exchange of money was direct between me and the other person, the lawyers can make sure everything is signed etc but they will never touch the actual money - they simply cannot be trusted

[Markland]

legal real estate firm.They trick me

because of thai visa laws i don't think i can say much

i have contacted someone who has a very known website that all of you know to ask him did he hear any similar stoires to mine.Hey i know i am stupid for thinking i meet honest professional people and that law is similar to home

yes i was very stupid to think this

it is 2012 and still these scams are being done to people with no retribution

i will keep on fight bit my expectations are low

paperwork will be translated tommorow i hope

pattaya = heaven for scammers

many rich people here living good life mooney made by scams

Edited May 16, 2012 by Markland

[Darrel]

pattaya = heaven for scammers

You are spot-on there.

There must be more farang crooks here per square mile than almost anywhere else on the planet.

[Markland]

pattaya = heaven for scammers

You are spot-on there.

There must be more farang crooks here per square mile than almost anywhere else on the planet.

my mother god rest her soul always told me don't judge a book by its cover.I think this meaning is for the people who you think might be trash gangster or thief drug dealer dont be to quick to judge because they might be good

i was to quick to judge inn the opposite fashion

i was so impressed by this thai and foreigner

so gullible is me..the stupid things is this i have a 20 year old girlfriend i give her a allowance every month i take care of her

spoil her but i would not spend over extravagantly with her

but with these people i was so happy so impressed so confident in there ability

i accept i was stupid i accept that i am naive i accept everything negative thrown at me

i deserve harsh words but because i was gullibale does that make it right to scam me ?

i built big buisness in brazil and sold for great money then invested early in pattaya when i was middle 30s and did very well

i am trying to say that even people who have been successful in other business can get scammed out here.you would think that i would of been more smart because i am 51 and live here long time but no i was stupid

and unfortunately there are many more like me around waiting to be scammed

Edited May 16, 2012 by Markland