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Posted

strange, in the US you pay 20 to 50.000 $ dollar per year to attend uni, in most European countries, everybody who finished high school can attend for as almost 0 - 500 euros per year as subscription fee

so, the best schools for elite only ?

Yes, as it has always been and will always be. Next question.

Oh my what happened to Yingluck? She really must be a farmers daughter.

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Posted

Whats so surprising about the survey? Thailand university degrees are pretty worthless(certainly outside the country) .ask any foreign teacher who has worked at any.Students know they get that piece of paper whatever they achieve or dont achieve there.

Sent from my LG-P350 using Thaivisa Connect App

I take it you have not been to many Thai hospitals lately. I am a foreign teacher who has worked with Thai students for the past 10 years. I fly with Thai pilots too.

Frightening, init?

Posted

My own observation is that graduate students that attend a foreign university, e.g. a Thai pursuing an MSc. in Australia, or a Chinese pursuing a doctorate in the USA, will be of much better all around quality than the same type grad student either locally or in the foreigner's native land. Thai students that select foreign graduate schools are just as good as students from elsewhere. This then suggests to me, that the issue is the educational system itself that needs some work.

One of my friends was completing his B. Comm on weekends. It was incredibly difficult to juggle classes on the weekends while working full time. I was in disbelief when I reviewed his schedule. They actually sent his class up north to spend a weekend learning songs and dances. Thai universities waste so much time on useless unproductive activities. Where else do they have students spend days decorating for school ceremonies? I do understand the need to have respect for professors, but seriously, is a whole day needed to have a ceremony where students give flowers to the instructor? Walk into the science faculties at most Thai universities and the lab facilities are primitive. (Yes, Mahidol and Chula are well equipped), but they don't have the same equipment in KK or Phuket. I also notice that wealthy Thais do not contribute to universities in Thailand in the same way they do in the west. There is no community partnership. Look at the best universities in the world. They have donors and endowments. Harvard has the largest endowment in the world I believe. German universities have wonderful facilities donated by various companies, Canadian universities have buildings built by grateful graduates, Australian universities have their generous alumni and Thailand has what? A university is a reflection upon the local community. In Thailand, it's ugly.

You sound like you know what you are talking about but do you? What do you know about CP in Thailand? What do you know about their education policies? What CP employees go to school free? Where and for how long? How many? How much money does Charoen Pokphand Group put into education? How many companies in Thailand make free education available to employees?

Then there is the German thing. Australia is ranked 8th, the UK 10th and Germany 17th? Why is that?

How many colleges have you been to in Khon Kaen? Do you know how many have exchange programs with Japanese medical schools?

You act like an expert but I don't think you are. Anecdotal evidence from a couple of people is hardly conclusive.

Maybe you are an expert. I don't know. But some credentials would be nice to review if in fact you do know what you are talking about.

You have selected CP Group as an example of excellence. Unfortunately for you, CP Group, which is arguably one of the most generous of Thai national groups, demonstrates the lack of investment in Thailand. Let’s now read the available information proudly touted by the company. CP currently “generates over USD 33 Billion annually”. Impressive and very big. In order to make my point I’ll need a comparable conglomerate. The most likely selection is ADM a company similar to CP in terms of activity and size. In fairness ADM has revenues of USD 81 billion , so let’s use a balance factor of 2.7.

Since 1979, CP Group has provided scholarships to students from governmental education institutions averaging approximately 10 thousand Baht each. Each year there are 120 scholarships handed out by the CP Group with an overall of 3,000.

Let’s do the math now; 120 Scholarships @10,000 =1,200,000 baht. In USD that’s about $38,000. Are you impressed by that?

In 2011, ADM gave a grant of US$10 million grant to the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. It also gave $1.5million to Purdue University in Indiana and another $250,000 donation to North Dakota State University. Can you do math? That’s $11.75 million vs $2,325. Underwhelming isn’t it?

For past 30 years, CP Group has built 7 schools within remote areas throughout Thailand, in the provinces of Nakhon Ratchasima, Luei, Sakhonakorn, Chiang Mai, and Narathiwat.

How much does a rural school cost? Well, if we take into consideration the typical standard used (Unicef built 17 over a couple of years) It is a simple building, made of rough plank floors, partial bamboo walls and a tin roof, This shouldn’t cost more than 50,000 baht. Do you want to assume they provided some lavish extras? Maybe 100,000 baht. Let’s be generous. 7 Schools – 700,000 baht. Now let’s adjust for 30 years. That works out to about 23,000 baht per annum or about $775.

You make reference to the rankings of Germany 69.4, Australia 77.8 and the UK 76.8

What’s your point? In terms of the study, the differences are marginal, since the top scores excluding the USA are in the 80’s . Anything over 65 is acceptable if you read the criteria. Top tier countries with lower scores have educational mechanisms that compensate. For example, Germany has a superior approach to technical training. Thailand came in at 46.6 Now that’s a significant difference.

In respect to the facilities at various universities, I am acutely aware of who has what and yes I have visited science faculties over the years. I also know that Thai life sciences university labs don’t provide equipment to grad students that’s basic to a freshman’s lab in the west. How can a PhD student in microbiology or virology where access to electron microscopes are limited and what's available is out of date, be expected to engage in cutting edge research when he or she cannot even work with the beasties being studied?

What are you on about medical school exchanges? Do you think that a week long exchange on a specific subject has an impact overall? For example, in Chiang Mai, the Japanese researchers are coming as part of the Japanese funded malaria project. Are you aware that there were no English language teaching medical facilities in Thailand? I think there are now 20 seats on a trial basis. Please provide some specific examples of foreign medical students studying in Thailand in the same manner in which they do in Australia, Canada, the USA etc.

Presenting credentials on an internet forum such as this serve no purpose as there is no way to verify if someone is lying. Does it reassure you that I am the holder of multiple university diplomas?

  • Like 1
Posted

Whats so surprising about the survey? Thailand university degrees are pretty worthless(certainly outside the country) .ask any foreign teacher who has worked at any.Students know they get that piece of paper whatever they achieve or dont achieve there.

Sent from my LG-P350 using Thaivisa Connect App

I take it you have not been to many Thai hospitals lately. I am a foreign teacher who has worked with Thai students for the past 10 years. I fly with Thai pilots too.

Frightening, init?

The only thing frightening about it is going to a Western Hospital after getting used to the quality standards in Thai hospitals. That and of course waiting and waiting. Thai hospitals and clinics you get right in, in minutes. Sure it's not the nanny state free stuff but the care is far better. I have had two major operations in Thai hospitals. Unplanned emergencies. No problems.

Posted

My own observation is that graduate students that attend a foreign university, e.g. a Thai pursuing an MSc. in Australia, or a Chinese pursuing a doctorate in the USA, will be of much better all around quality than the same type grad student either locally or in the foreigner's native land. Thai students that select foreign graduate schools are just as good as students from elsewhere. This then suggests to me, that the issue is the educational system itself that needs some work.

One of my friends was completing his B. Comm on weekends. It was incredibly difficult to juggle classes on the weekends while working full time. I was in disbelief when I reviewed his schedule. They actually sent his class up north to spend a weekend learning songs and dances. Thai universities waste so much time on useless unproductive activities. Where else do they have students spend days decorating for school ceremonies? I do understand the need to have respect for professors, but seriously, is a whole day needed to have a ceremony where students give flowers to the instructor? Walk into the science faculties at most Thai universities and the lab facilities are primitive. (Yes, Mahidol and Chula are well equipped), but they don't have the same equipment in KK or Phuket. I also notice that wealthy Thais do not contribute to universities in Thailand in the same way they do in the west. There is no community partnership. Look at the best universities in the world. They have donors and endowments. Harvard has the largest endowment in the world I believe. German universities have wonderful facilities donated by various companies, Canadian universities have buildings built by grateful graduates, Australian universities have their generous alumni and Thailand has what? A university is a reflection upon the local community. In Thailand, it's ugly.

You sound like you know what you are talking about but do you? What do you know about CP in Thailand? What do you know about their education policies? What CP employees go to school free? Where and for how long? How many? How much money does Charoen Pokphand Group put into education? How many companies in Thailand make free education available to employees?

Then there is the German thing. Australia is ranked 8th, the UK 10th and Germany 17th? Why is that?

How many colleges have you been to in Khon Kaen? Do you know how many have exchange programs with Japanese medical schools?

You act like an expert but I don't think you are. Anecdotal evidence from a couple of people is hardly conclusive.

Maybe you are an expert. I don't know. But some credentials would be nice to review if in fact you do know what you are talking about.

You have selected CP Group as an example of excellence. Unfortunately for you, CP Group, which is arguably one of the most generous of Thai national groups, demonstrates the lack of investment in Thailand. Let’s now read the available information proudly touted by the company. CP currently “generates over USD 33 Billion annually”. Impressive and very big. In order to make my point I’ll need a comparable conglomerate. The most likely selection is ADM a company similar to CP in terms of activity and size. In fairness ADM has revenues of USD 81 billion , so let’s use a balance factor of 2.7.

Since 1979, CP Group has provided scholarships to students from governmental education institutions averaging approximately 10 thousand Baht each. Each year there are 120 scholarships handed out by the CP Group with an overall of 3,000.

Let’s do the math now; 120 Scholarships @10,000 =1,200,000 baht. In USD that’s about $38,000. Are you impressed by that?

In 2011, ADM gave a grant of US$10 million grant to the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. It also gave $1.5million to Purdue University in Indiana and another $250,000 donation to North Dakota State University. Can you do math? That’s $11.75 million vs $2,325. Underwhelming isn’t it?

For past 30 years, CP Group has built 7 schools within remote areas throughout Thailand, in the provinces of Nakhon Ratchasima, Luei, Sakhonakorn, Chiang Mai, and Narathiwat.

How much does a rural school cost? Well, if we take into consideration the typical standard used (Unicef built 17 over a couple of years) It is a simple building, made of rough plank floors, partial bamboo walls and a tin roof, This shouldn’t cost more than 50,000 baht. Do you want to assume they provided some lavish extras? Maybe 100,000 baht. Let’s be generous. 7 Schools – 700,000 baht. Now let’s adjust for 30 years. That works out to about 23,000 baht per annum or about $775.

You make reference to the rankings of Germany 69.4, Australia 77.8 and the UK 76.8

What’s your point? In terms of the study, the differences are marginal, since the top scores excluding the USA are in the 80’s . Anything over 65 is acceptable if you read the criteria. Top tier countries with lower scores have educational mechanisms that compensate. For example, Germany has a superior approach to technical training. Thailand came in at 46.6 Now that’s a significant difference.

In respect to the facilities at various universities, I am acutely aware of who has what and yes I have visited science faculties over the years. I also know that Thai life sciences university labs don’t provide equipment to grad students that’s basic to a freshman’s lab in the west. How can a PhD student in microbiology or virology where access to electron microscopes are limited and what's available is out of date, be expected to engage in cutting edge research when he or she cannot even work with the beasties being studied?

What are you on about medical school exchanges? Do you think that a week long exchange on a specific subject has an impact overall? For example, in Chiang Mai, the Japanese researchers are coming as part of the Japanese funded malaria project. Are you aware that there were no English language teaching medical facilities in Thailand? I think there are now 20 seats on a trial basis. Please provide some specific examples of foreign medical students studying in Thailand in the same manner in which they do in Australia, Canada, the USA etc.

Presenting credentials on an internet forum such as this serve no purpose as there is no way to verify if someone is lying. Does it reassure you that I am the holder of multiple university diplomas?

I sometimes worry when I see your longer posts and am usually happy when they are not blowing holes in my posts. It appears you are one of a handful of people who actually do the work/research before posting.

Well, at any rate, it keeps everyone on his/her toes.

Posted

Geriatrickid. That is a great answer. I won't quote it because it is so long. I really do like long answers though.

As far as I know CP will educate any qualified employees up to a BA for free if they work at the same time they are going to college. They go to school a term and then work a term. I think that's pretty good.

The exchange programs I was talking about were Japanese Universities and the University of Kohn Kaen (the one you said didn't have any equipment).

I have never been I a science lab in Kohn Kaen. Have you really been in one or more than one in Kohn Kaen?

I didn't look up info on line about CP or Kohn Kaen. I know people involved with both entities.

From you, I guess I was looking for some actual experiences with education in Thailand. I taught in Thailand for a number of years and have impressions from that experience. I'm not what you might call a wiki warrior in this case.

I have degrees from the US and Canada. As do my children so I also have an impression of those vs the UK (work related).

I think Thailand turns out better doctors quicker by starting earlier. A lot of the medical care in the US is provided by third world doctors anyway (India, Pakistan and Mexico).

Geri you are a long term poster. Surly you see the change recently on Thai Visa. The 4 AM off shore posters with the extremely negative views on anything Thai. In politics, education, medicine and so on. Currently there is a thread running in the teaching forum asking for information from teachers on a college level and no one has responded leading me to believe there is no one posting on Thai Visa currently with the exception of myself who has taught on a college level in Thailand.

To be honest it you read the original article it is not about colleges at all. It is about countries not colleges. Quoting from the article, “Universitas 21, a leading global network of research universities, has developed the ranking as a benchmark for governments.

Further quotes.

Government funding of higher education as a percentage of GDP is highest in Finland, Norway and Denmark, but when private expenditure is added in, funding is highest in the United States, Korea, Canada and Chile. I would say this is in line with my experience except I don't know anything about Chili. Investment in Research and Development is highest in Denmark, Sweden and Switzerland. The United States dominates the total output of research journal articles, but Sweden is the biggest producer of articles per head of population (but who really cares). What is important is the nations whose research has the greatest impact and they are Switzerland, the Netherlands, the United States, United Kingdom and Denmark. The United States and United Kingdom have the world's top institutions in rankings.

The countries with the largest proportion of workers with a higher level education are Russia, Canada, Israel, United States, Ukraine, Taiwan and Australia.

Lead author, Professor Ross Williams at the University of Melbourne, said, “"In a globalised world, a strong higher education system is essential if a nation is to be economically competitive.”

Jane Usherwood, Secretary General of Universitas 21, said: "More transparency and clarity is needed around the comparative strengths and qualities of national education systems around the world in order to encourage knowledge-sharing, collaboration and development of opportunities for students in all countries. We hope the Universitas 21 Ranking will become an established point of reference for policy-makers, education institutions and development bodies globally."

So what will be the reaction of the typical Thai Visa poster to the above information? “Bloody ell mate, everybody knows them yanks don't know nothing!” Or the one completely stereotypical post of the thread, “Yingluck went to school in the States and she can hardly speak English eh wot?”

Actually what the article says is that United States, Sweden, Canada, Finland and Denmark are the hubs of international education. The headline of “Thailand ranks 41 in university ranking” should read, “The government of Thailand ranks 41in providing advanced education opportunities.”

Research authors at the Melbourne Institute of Applied Economic and Social Research,University of Melbourne, looked at the most recent data from 48 countries across 20 different measures. The range of measures is grouped under four headings: resources (investment by government and private sector), output (research and its impact, as well as the production of an educated workforce which meets labour market needs), connectivity (international networks and collaboration which protects a system against insularity) and environment (government policy and regulation, diversity and participation opportunities).

Posted

I don't want to bash CP Group. I know, they are head and shoulders above their Thai peers on the subject.. Yes, I am disappointed in the Thai results. Tremendous efforts have been made over the years and people do care, but there is always such a dance to move one step forward. It's 3 to the side, then a circle, then 2 steps back, then a moveforward etc.

What ticks me off the most is the lack of encouragement for adult students. An economy moves forward when there is continuing education. Thai employers for the most part do not encourage staff to upgrade their skills. I don't understand the mentality in this region. In Japan, in Singapore and even workaholic Taiwan, workers are encouraged to go take additional classes. In Thailand , many of the universities insist on offering their adult education only on Saturdays and Sundays. It is very difficult for the target consumer to get that extra day off. If they do get the Saturday, they are told to make up the hours and they are often docked a day's pay. I know, I know, some Thais might take advantage. But jiminey cricket, that's why some people are supposed to be managers, so that they can vet the potential students. I have watched my friend flirt with mental exhaustion as he juggled work, caring for elderly parents and forgoing a social life. I am left with the impression as others have observed, that there is a segment of society that wants to block the opportunity for people to improve themselves. We're forever going to be held hostage when the frustrated poor and uneducated get rowdy unless concrete measures are made to push everyone forward. Education is the way to do it.

Angry rant finished. :)

Posted (edited)

Thailand and education are 2 words which cannot exist in the same sentence.

In Thailand, a significant percentage of the population lack a decent education.

There, done it.

Edited by LucidLucifer
Posted

Australian Universities are extremely good, and the quality of their graduates is very high. Australia always ranked very highly in comparison to the US, and much of the time was considered better - certainly several orders of magnitude safer than the US as well. I am surprised at these results, and a little skeptical.

It always tends to turn into someone against the US.

My friend, in what areas do the Aussies dominate or even excel in?

Finance? Australian Wall Street?

Law? Well, certainly law is different, so perhaps not really easily comparable.

Science?

Technology? Aussie Silicon Valley??

Agriculture?

I mean common guys. The US is a VERY large country by western standards with the MOST diverse populace, has led the INDUSTRIAL, MODERN SCIENTIFIC, AGRICULTURE, RETAIL, CONSUMER, TECHNOLOGY, FINANCE revolutions of the last couple hundred years. The secondary unis are still always among the best in the world.

Has there been a recent decline in overall education? I believe so, yes. But, what the US has that many other countries do not is the legal and regulatory structure to make very fast policy changes to affect change (whether positive or negative, of course). That has always been its major advantage. Americans, unlike most Europeans, (not sure about Aussies) are not so tied to tradition and long, complex histories that often hold these other countries back. As the American economy recovers (faster than those of Europe and Asia, I might add), and as the presidents and policy makers focus more acutely on scaring Americans into believing that the Chinese and Indians are actually turning out better prepared graduates (and thus encouraging American voters to force more money into education as a percentage of GDP), I think we are in to see a resurgence in the focus on education across the country.

As far as Australia goes, I'm not picking on them. But, what really are they known for? In what areas do their graduates make their mark? And, how many of them are there anyway? America is much larger than Australia, so you are certainly bound to get more American graduates at some level below where you might another, random Aussie graduate.

They are known for world class winemaking, and excellent cinema. Also a strong exonomy and currency Who needs any more than that? The world knows the US is going downhill fast. I say that as an American. The empire is on the wane.

Posted

I always though US universities were laughable.

But what do I know.

I'm surprised Thai universities came out so high.

Seeing as how easy it is to buy or shag your way to a pass/better result.

Posted

I always though US universities were laughable.

But what do I know.

I'm surprised Thai universities came out so high.

Seeing as how easy it is to buy or shag your way to a pass/better result.

Yes, anything can be bought in this country .

Posted

Of course, the issues of education, particularly in America with its many immigrant students, is complex.

The below video argues both sides.

[media=]

[/media]

--

Sounds biased, H1B is not just for so=called genius anymore, they are fraudulently using it down to low level tech and and business jobs now.

Posted

It doesn't take a survey to come to the conclusion that most Thai universities are a joke. Any Thai who can afford it is educated abroad; simple fact.

  • Like 1
Posted

Research authors at the Melbourne Institute of Applied Economic and Social Research,University of Melbourne, looked at the most recent data from 48 countries across 20 different measures.

The range of measures is grouped under four headings: resources (investment by government and private sector), output (research and its impact, as well as the production of an educated workforce which meets labour market needs), connectivity (international networks and collaboration which protects a system against insularity) and environment (government policy and regulation, diversity and participation opportunities).

Overall, in the Universitas 21 Ranking of higher education systems, the top five were found to be the United States, Sweden, Canada, Finland and Denmark.

Do you want me to put this in Thai Visa poster speak? OK, the study did not rate Universities. It ranked higher education systems. The study did not say that universities are better in the US than Australia or the UK.

The study did not say anything about Thai universities it said something about Thailand. The study did not say anything about US universities it made a statement about the US.

I have found that when reading a story on Thai Visa it is always wise to read the original story.

Posted

This survey is not believable.

U are right!

Correct, any college / university system that allows degrees to simply be bought should rant much further down the list.

Did you read the article? There wasn't much further down to go!

Posted

This survey is not believable.

U are right!

Correct, any college / university system that allows degrees to simply be bought should rant much further down the list.

Did you read the article? There wasn't much further down to go!

41st out of 48 countries evaluated. Pretty far down the list, but still not at the bottom where the Thai education system belongs.

Posted

Australian Universities are extremely good, and the quality of their graduates is very high. Australia always ranked very highly in comparison to the US, and much of the time was considered better - certainly several orders of magnitude safer than the US as well. I am surprised at these results, and a little skeptical.

It always tends to turn into someone against the US.

My friend, in what areas do the Aussies dominate or even excel in?

Finance? Australian Wall Street?

Law? Well, certainly law is different, so perhaps not really easily comparable.

Science?

Technology? Aussie Silicon Valley??

Agriculture?

I mean common guys. The US is a VERY large country by western standards with the MOST diverse populace, has led the INDUSTRIAL, MODERN SCIENTIFIC, AGRICULTURE, RETAIL, CONSUMER, TECHNOLOGY, FINANCE revolutions of the last couple hundred years. The secondary unis are still always among the best in the world.

Has there been a recent decline in overall education? I believe so, yes. But, what the US has that many other countries do not is the legal and regulatory structure to make very fast policy changes to affect change (whether positive or negative, of course). That has always been its major advantage. Americans, unlike most Europeans, (not sure about Aussies) are not so tied to tradition and long, complex histories that often hold these other countries back. As the American economy recovers (faster than those of Europe and Asia, I might add), and as the presidents and policy makers focus more acutely on scaring Americans into believing that the Chinese and Indians are actually turning out better prepared graduates (and thus encouraging American voters to force more money into education as a percentage of GDP), I think we are in to see a resurgence in the focus on education across the country.

As far as Australia goes, I'm not picking on them. But, what really are they known for? In what areas do their graduates make their mark? And, how many of them are there anyway? America is much larger than Australia, so you are certainly bound to get more American graduates at some level below where you might another, random Aussie graduate.

They are known for world class winemaking, and excellent cinema. Also a strong exonomy and currency Who needs any more than that? The world knows the US is going downhill fast. I say that as an American. The empire is on the wane.

We shall see. There is no expert consensus as of yet. Time will tell.

Posted

Australian Universities are extremely good, and the quality of their graduates is very high. Australia always ranked very highly in comparison to the US, and much of the time was considered better - certainly several orders of magnitude safer than the US as well. I am surprised at these results, and a little skeptical.

It always tends to turn into someone against the US.

My friend, in what areas do the Aussies dominate or even excel in?

Finance? Australian Wall Street?

Law? Well, certainly law is different, so perhaps not really easily comparable.

Science?

Technology? Aussie Silicon Valley??

Agriculture?

I mean common guys. The US is a VERY large country by western standards with the MOST diverse populace, has led the INDUSTRIAL, MODERN SCIENTIFIC, AGRICULTURE, RETAIL, CONSUMER, TECHNOLOGY, FINANCE revolutions of the last couple hundred years. The secondary unis are still always among the best in the world.

Has there been a recent decline in overall education? I believe so, yes. But, what the US has that many other countries do not is the legal and regulatory structure to make very fast policy changes to affect change (whether positive or negative, of course). That has always been its major advantage. Americans, unlike most Europeans, (not sure about Aussies) are not so tied to tradition and long, complex histories that often hold these other countries back. As the American economy recovers (faster than those of Europe and Asia, I might add), and as the presidents and policy makers focus more acutely on scaring Americans into believing that the Chinese and Indians are actually turning out better prepared graduates (and thus encouraging American voters to force more money into education as a percentage of GDP), I think we are in to see a resurgence in the focus on education across the country.

As far as Australia goes, I'm not picking on them. But, what really are they known for? In what areas do their graduates make their mark? And, how many of them are there anyway? America is much larger than Australia, so you are certainly bound to get more American graduates at some level below where you might another, random Aussie graduate.

They are known for world class winemaking, and excellent cinema. Also a strong exonomy and currency Who needs any more than that? The world knows the US is going downhill fast. I say that as an American. The empire is on the wane.

We shall see. There is no expert consensus as of yet. Time will tell.

Time did tell, what follows is the expert consensus from Melbourne Institute of Applied Economic and Social Research,University of Melbourne.

Universitas 21 Ranking of higher education systems, the top five were found to be the United States, Sweden, Canada, Finland and Denmark.

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