Running A Desktop Pc From 2 Pin Electric -I.E No Earth

[RandomSand]

Advice needed:

I'm someone who cares about the reliability and integrity of their system and data therein.

Can I get away with no earth (ground) ?

-note: I do have a APC line-interactive UPS if that matters.

[jybkk]

As far as I know, the main issue with having no ground is for your personal safety rather than for your computer data. You often get small electric shock when touching those old desktops in Thai cyber-cafes. Not a good sign.

If you care bout your data, back it up, the best being cloud backup solution. They are quite cheap and easy to setup (see Mozy, Backblaze, ...)

[bobl]

The shock you get from those machines is just static...

Not that it does you or the hardware any good, but it's not an "electric shock" from the mains...

[Crossy]

The shock you get from those machines is just static...

Not that it does you or the hardware any good, but it's not an "electric shock" from the mains...

NO! It is not 'just' static. The tickle is caused by the mains inlet filter. With no ground the casework can float at around half mains voltage, source impedance is high so the current is small and there is little danger (about 1-3mA is common).

The filter needs a ground to function correctly but it doesn't need to be of safety earth standards. A metal water pipe or your balcony railing will be good enough to stop any tickles.

For your safety, you should have an RCD (Safe-T-Cut) installed and ensure that your water heater is actually grounded.

Meanwhile, even true static is perfectly capable of destroying the delicate electronics that lives within your PC.

[RandomSand]

The shock you get from those machines is just static...

Not that it does you or the hardware any good, but it's not an "electric shock" from the mains...

NO! It is not 'just' static. The tickle is caused by the mains inlet filter. With no ground the casework can float at around half mains voltage, source impedance is high so the current is small and there is little danger (about 1-3mA is common). The filter needs a ground to function correctly but it doesn't need to be of safety earth standards.

Meanwhile, even true static is perfectly capable of destroying the delicate electronics that lives within your PC.

Makes sense. Thanks.

[welo]

Gonna hijack this thread a bit, hope nobody minds too much! I saw that Crossy is here and he is tha man!

I thought I had understood grounding issues when I looked into it the first time a came to Thailand, but now that I think about it it's not totally clear to me.

I understand that the tickling when touching the PC comes from a difference in pontential (voltage) between the PC case and the ground where I am standing.

Corssy, you write that 'The tickle is caused by the mains inlet filter'.

If I remember correctly somebody (here on the forums, was it you? ) told me once that the difference actually comes from the neutral at the electric company's facility (= ground level there) and the ground at the consumer can differ due to the distance (in kilometers). Is that correct?

So this means that the neutral in the PC somehow leaks (is connected?) to the PC case. Is this normal or the sign of a badly built PC? Shouldn't the computer case be completely insulated from the neutral?

If my understanding is too far off just tell me, I will go back to the basics. But maybe I just miss a view minor things you can point out to me.

So can touching the computer case actually destroy something inside the computer? Wouldn't it go the shortest way? That brings up the question where it actually 'comes from' - the power adapter I guess?

*confused*

[Tywais]

The shock you get from those machines is just static...

Not that it does you or the hardware any good, but it's not an "electric shock" from the mains...

NO! It is not 'just' static. The tickle is caused by the mains inlet filter. With no ground the casework can float at around half mains voltage, source impedance is high so the current is small and there is little danger (about 1-3mA is common).

I've posted the technical diagram a long time ago but here is another one I put together showing the front end of a PC's power supply. In this case the caps are 4700 pF which at 50Hz is 677,000 ohms which will be about 232 microamps at 110VAC peak from case to earth.

[boggle]

If you have a 3 prong lead, wired up correctly and a good earth, no probs.

[astral]

IME very few properties in LOS have earthed outlets.

[boggle]

IME very few properties in LOS have earthed outlets.

"Through adversity to the stars"

[Crossy]

New builds are supposed to have grounded outlets and RCD protection, sadly the regulations don't seem to have filtered down to those actually doing the installations.

We live in an 18 year old condo, it's had grounded outlets and water heaters from day one, no RCDs though. I installed RCD protection.

[smiling mantis]

If you have a 3 prong lead, wired up correctly and a good earth, no probs.

The PC I recently put together has a premium power supply that incredibly comes with only the two prong plug!

I use it and it's fine, except on occasion it emits what sounds like a 60-cycle-hum.

I know the outlet is grounded because it wasn't before and I would get shocks from when I used my MacBook Pro while it was plugged in. It was fixed, and the shocks stopped.

So wow, I really don't know what to think. I'm not a solid-state physicist, and you go on the web to educate yourself about grounding issues and you get umpteen different answers from guys who sound like they all know what they're talking about, except they can't all possibly know because they keep contradicting each other.

When they come out with tesseract-powered computers I'm definitely getting me one of those.

[miksguevara]

The shock you get from those machines is just static...

Not that it does you or the hardware any good, but it's not an "electric shock" from the mains...

wrong!! with my pc in thailand i drove a grounding rod 2 metres into the earth and had my pc grounded to that, you want to look at a quality ups unit and something to condition the line power aswell.....if you value ur pc and personal safety.

Also consider running the pc in an airconditioned environment

Edited May 20, 2012 by miksguevara

[harrry]

The shock you get from those machines is just static...

Not that it does you or the hardware any good, but it's not an "electric shock" from the mains...

NO! It is not 'just' static. The tickle is caused by the mains inlet filter. With no ground the casework can float at around half mains voltage, source impedance is high so the current is small and there is little danger (about 1-3mA is common).

The filter needs a ground to function correctly but it doesn't need to be of safety earth standards. A metal water pipe or your balcony railing will be good enough to stop any tickles.

For your safety, you should have an RCD (Safe-T-Cut) installed and ensure that your water heater is actually grounded.

Meanwhile, even true static is perfectly capable of destroying the delicate electronics that lives within your PC.

THis is what I thought but I just bought a top end computer with a Thermaltake power supply which came with the earth pin removed from the plug..

[elshaheen]

You might consider the electrical layout of your apartment complex. Most construction companies don't even bother to set up your electrical system with a ground. Thai’s are just lazy and like to take shortcuts when building a house / Apartment / commercial building. Just plain lazy.