Thai Wife Underpaid In Uk

[brit1984]

As a Brit (who only recently left London) I would like to give my view on "immigrants" from a working / jobs perspective. From my experience, immigrants are very hard working and willing to move and re-train as necessary to find employment. These traits do not seem to be shared by many Brits who "can't find work". In fact, since becoming a small business owner, I have been shocked how few applications I receive for employment from British nationals, and my employees are all earning well in excess of the minimum wage.

Mate, you need to make your point by stating what jobs you're offering.

Is your company a cleaning agency? Do you run a Thai restaurant? Do you own a language school that teaches English to Polish immigrants?

See what I'm getting at?

Tell me you've set up an investment bank in Guernsey and I'll be surprised if you receive less applications from British nationals than from immigrants.

I used to work in an investment bank and the vast majority of my colleagues at the junior level were non-Brits; likewise most of the applications we received for internship and analysts hires were non-Brits. When I moved to a hedge fund, I was the only Brit below Partner level, and of around 50 potential new recruits I interviewed, only 1 was British.

Subsequently as an entrepreneur, I have one company that provides career advice for prospective investment bankers; both the career coaches working for me are non-Brits (I never had an application from a Brit for these positions). Also, most of our customers are non-Brits.

My other major business venture is a combined spa, beauty and hair salon. Most applicants for the spa have been Thais; for the hair and beauty salon more than 90% of the applicants are non-British white Europeans.

Similarly, when we have advertised for domestic help (cleaning and nannying) we never received a single application for anyone British despite offering wages of 10 pounds per hour and 12 pounds per hour respectively.

Mate, with respect, I'm struggling to take you seriously. I worked in the City and most traders were Brits. Investment analysts and fund managers were all Brits. Our core business was investment trusts, unit trusts, and managed currency funds.

A. Why would you (as a hedge fund employee below partner level) have interviewed candidates? I don't get that.

B. What exactly is "career advice for prospective investment bankers"? I've never heard of that, and I can't see that anyone (except a fool) would want it. Senior level employees where I worked were almost all Eton/Oxford. A few were Bristol/Exeter/Durham/. These guys often had fathers in the industry. They never needed advice. Nepotism exists, but it's talent (and not advice) that sets you apart.

C. Most of your customers are non-Brits. Point being .......... the guys headed for the top don't need or want you.

D. You run a spa. What is a spa? What does it offer for employees? It's massage. It's dead end. It's a road to nowhere. Still surprised why Brits don't apply?

Indeed a high proportion of traders are British, although this is less so the case at the junior level (i.e. new applications today which is what we are talking about) but anyway trading and investment banking are not the same. The majority of new analysts and associates today in investment banking are non-Brits.

It is certainly not only Partners who interview candidates for work in hedge funds. I don't know if that used to be the case but now when applying to work for investment banking, private equity or hedge funds you can expect to be interviewed by every level including very junior staff (but not secretaries).

Indeed, as I said, most of the senior bankers are English but the days of new recruits being mostly recruited through friends and family are long gone. Most banks have a 3 or 4 round interview process, numerical and verbal reasoning test, team-work based "super-days" and a time-consuming online application form to complete. We help prospective investment bankers to tidy up their CVs and their interviewing skills to give them a better chance of being in the less than 5% of applicants who secure positions in the field. I went to Oxford, and knew bankers when I applied, but this did not exempt me from this rigorous recruitment process as you seem to assume.

With regards to the spa, we offer massage, beauty and hair treatments. The massage therapists all earn far in excess of the minimum wage, the beauticians earn c.30-40k/year and the hairdressers all earn well over 50k/year. Two of the massage therapists have moved on from working for us and opened their own spa, one of which is making a run-rate profit in excess of 100k/year.

To bring this back on topic, there are amazing employment and business opportunities available to the OP's wife

Edited May 25, 2012 by brit1984

[katana]

...As the OP mentioned above. he has talked to her boss and had him agreeing on tripling her wage and cutting her workhours, in your dreams: Within a week she will be out of that job, and if her husband really intend to gras on her boss, which according to most posters here is the right thing to do, her Thai friends and collegees working there will lose their livelyhood. Will make her a pariah within the Thai community, who ofcourse will know where it is coming from...

I was thinking the same about the job and if she'll now be 'frozen out' and forced or decide to leave.

Edited May 25, 2012 by katana

[soi41]

@soi41

You are the Thaivisa equivalent of this employer.

Spot on! For the last almost 10 years I have had 40-60 Thai ladies working for me. So I know a little about, what is going on in their "brains" . As I run massageshops, that are very seasondependant, some of the girls are really not needed in low season, but they still show up for "work" every day. Not all of them need the money, 3-4 sponsors sending them money, some even have very nice own homes in their name. Many years back I tried to enforce a little western logic, by telling the girls that the ones,that didn't need the money should show some solidarity with their not so lucky sisters, by not showing up and take customers from their poorer colleges. All the girls lucky/not lucky looked at me as I was from outer space . "Where can we/they go??" So I am sure, even if I didn't pay some of the well off ladies, they would still show up, because their friends and colleges are more important than money. With a western mindset difficult to understand, but that is the way it is. Hence my comments about the OP's wifes priorities, a minimumwage is not always a first priority, maybe her being with "her own" people is more important, especially as she only have been in the UK for a very short time.

[theblether]

@soi41

You are the Thaivisa equivalent of this employer.

Spot on! For the last almost 10 years I have had 40-60 Thai ladies working for me. So I know a little about, what is going on in their "brains" . As I run massageshops, that are very seasondependant, some of the girls are really not needed in low season, but they still show up for "work" every day. Not all of them need the money, 3-4 sponsors sending them money, some even have very nice own homes in their name. Many years back I tried to enforce a little western logic, by telling the girls that the ones,that didn't need the money should show some solidarity with their not so lucky sisters, by not showing up and take customers from their poorer colleges. All the girls lucky/not lucky looked at me as I was from outer space . "Where can we/they go??" So I am sure, even if I didn't pay some of the well off ladies, they would still show up, because their friends and colleges are more important than money. With a western mindset difficult to understand, but that is the way it is. Hence my comments about the OP's wifes priorities, a minimumwage is not always a first priority, maybe her being with "her own" people is more important, especially as she only have been in the UK for a very short time.

What's that got to do with the UK?........we are all very aware of the social needs of Thais, they are very sociable people......is your contention that we should over-rule employment law so that she can have a good gossip???

[soi41]

@soi41

You are the Thaivisa equivalent of this employer.

Spot on! For the last almost 10 years I have had 40-60 Thai ladies working for me. So I know a little about, what is going on in their "brains" . As I run massageshops, that are very seasondependant, some of the girls are really not needed in low season, but they still show up for "work" every day. Not all of them need the money, 3-4 sponsors sending them money, some even have very nice own homes in their name. Many years back I tried to enforce a little western logic, by telling the girls that the ones,that didn't need the money should show some solidarity with their not so lucky sisters, by not showing up and take customers from their poorer colleges. All the girls lucky/not lucky looked at me as I was from outer space . "Where can we/they go??" So I am sure, even if I didn't pay some of the well off ladies, they would still show up, because their friends and colleges are more important than money. With a western mindset difficult to understand, but that is the way it is. Hence my comments about the OP's wifes priorities, a minimumwage is not always a first priority, maybe her being with "her own" people is more important, especially as she only have been in the UK for a very short time.

What's that got to do with the UK?........we are all very aware of the social needs of Thais, they are very sociable people......is your contention that we should over-rule employment law so that she can have a good gossip???

If that is what she wants, YES !

[brit1984]

@soi41

You are the Thaivisa equivalent of this employer.

Spot on! For the last almost 10 years I have had 40-60 Thai ladies working for me. So I know a little about, what is going on in their "brains" . As I run massageshops, that are very seasondependant, some of the girls are really not needed in low season, but they still show up for "work" every day. Not all of them need the money, 3-4 sponsors sending them money, some even have very nice own homes in their name. Many years back I tried to enforce a little western logic, by telling the girls that the ones,that didn't need the money should show some solidarity with their not so lucky sisters, by not showing up and take customers from their poorer colleges. All the girls lucky/not lucky looked at me as I was from outer space . "Where can we/they go??" So I am sure, even if I didn't pay some of the well off ladies, they would still show up, because their friends and colleges are more important than money. With a western mindset difficult to understand, but that is the way it is. Hence my comments about the OP's wifes priorities, a minimumwage is not always a first priority, maybe her being with "her own" people is more important, especially as she only have been in the UK for a very short time.

What's that got to do with the UK?........we are all very aware of the social needs of Thais, they are very sociable people......is your contention that we should over-rule employment law so that she can have a good gossip???

If that is what she wants, YES !

As a Thai spa owner myself, a lot of what you say strikes accord; some of my Thai staff also tend to "hang around" (and cause a nuisance) even when they aren't working

However, in the UK, there are plenty of opportunities available to the OP's wife where she can "hang around" with her Thai buddies AND get paid decent money for it

[smokie36]

@soi41

You are the Thaivisa equivalent of this employer.

Spot on! For the last almost 10 years I have had 40-60 Thai ladies working for me. So I know a little about, what is going on in their "brains" . As I run massageshops, that are very seasondependant, some of the girls are really not needed in low season, but they still show up for "work" every day. Not all of them need the money, 3-4 sponsors sending them money, some even have very nice own homes in their name. Many years back I tried to enforce a little western logic, by telling the girls that the ones,that didn't need the money should show some solidarity with their not so lucky sisters, by not showing up and take customers from their poorer colleges. All the girls lucky/not lucky looked at me as I was from outer space . "Where can we/they go??" So I am sure, even if I didn't pay some of the well off ladies, they would still show up, because their friends and colleges are more important than money. With a western mindset difficult to understand, but that is the way it is. Hence my comments about the OP's wifes priorities, a minimumwage is not always a first priority, maybe her being with "her own" people is more important, especially as she only have been in the UK for a very short time.

What's that got to do with the UK?........we are all very aware of the social needs of Thais, they are very sociable people......is your contention that we should over-rule employment law so that she can have a good gossip???

If that is what she wants, YES !

You know I worked in Reading for a while and would chat with the Thai ladies who worked at the AMT coffee shop every morning.

They were confident and happy young women....with plenty of friends and invited me on a few evenings out as well.

Mostly the circle was Thai...but I saw them making more and more friends outside that circle. Thais ARE very sociable by nature however there is no need to confine this to their own nationals.

i advise the OP to move to Glasgow.

Or Manchester for that matter.

[theblether]

@soi41

You are the Thaivisa equivalent of this employer.

Spot on! For the last almost 10 years I have had 40-60 Thai ladies working for me. So I know a little about, what is going on in their "brains" . As I run massageshops, that are very seasondependant, some of the girls are really not needed in low season, but they still show up for "work" every day. Not all of them need the money, 3-4 sponsors sending them money, some even have very nice own homes in their name. Many years back I tried to enforce a little western logic, by telling the girls that the ones,that didn't need the money should show some solidarity with their not so lucky sisters, by not showing up and take customers from their poorer colleges. All the girls lucky/not lucky looked at me as I was from outer space . "Where can we/they go??" So I am sure, even if I didn't pay some of the well off ladies, they would still show up, because their friends and colleges are more important than money. With a western mindset difficult to understand, but that is the way it is. Hence my comments about the OP's wifes priorities, a minimumwage is not always a first priority, maybe her being with "her own" people is more important, especially as she only have been in the UK for a very short time.

What's that got to do with the UK?........we are all very aware of the social needs of Thais, they are very sociable people......is your contention that we should over-rule employment law so that she can have a good gossip???

If that is what she wants, YES !

The lady went to her boss and told him she wanted paid correctly. So now she has got what she wants. Thanks for your input.

[SimonD]

If that is what she wants, YES !

@ Soi41,

I'm having difficulty understanding the logic behind your argument. Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

You are saying that because the OP's wife is happy with the way things were [sic], no action should have been taken?

1. Even if it involves breaking the law of her adoptive country (by failing to pay tax and NI)?

2. Even if it may well compromise her application for ILR (residency, by default of 1. above).

3. Even if it means exposing a wrong-doer who will likely continue to exploit others? Have you ever heard of the concept of social responsibility?

4. To give this lady the impression that western society is just as tolerant of criminality as is Thailand?

Do you really believe what you are saying typing? For your sake, I hope not.

I know Thai's who flagrantly disregard their own laws when it suits them. That's fine. It's their country and be it upon their own heads.

But not in the United Kingdom. Big difference... Not same-same.

This thread has seen off a few posters who misunderstood the regard in which most British people hold the depth, quality and fairness of their laws.

You are invited to join them...

Edited May 25, 2012 by SimonD

[smokie36]

If that is what she wants, YES !

@ Soi41,

I'm having difficulty understanding the logic behind your argument. Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

You are saying that because the OP's wife is happy with the way things were [sic], no action should have been taken?

1. Even if it involves breaking the law of her adoptive country (by failing to pay tax and NI)?

2. Even if it may well compromise her application for ILR (residency, by default of 1. above).

3. Even if it means exposing a wrong-doer who will likely continue to exploit others? Have you ever heard of the concept of social responsibility?

4. To give this lady the impression that western society is just as tolerant of criminality as is Thailand?

Do you really believe what you are saying typing? For your sake, I hope not.

I know Thai's who flagrantly disregard their own laws when it suits them. That's fine. It's their country and be it upon their own heads.

But not in the United Kingdom. Big difference... Not same-same.

This thread has seen off a few posters who misunderstood the regard in which most British people hold the depth, quality and fairness of their laws.

You are invited to join them...

All out of likes...so I will say you are absolutely correct. The poster you mention should read the entire thread before commenting.

My comment above should be enough for anyone else supporting that viewpoint.

This is a serious business and deserves informed comments only.

[theblether]

If that is what she wants, YES !

@ Soi41,

I'm having difficulty understanding the logic behind your argument. Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

You are saying that because the OP's wife is happy with the way things were [sic], no action should have been taken?

1. Even if it involves breaking the law of her adoptive country (by failing to pay tax and NI)?

2. Even if it may well compromise her application for ILR (residency, by default of 1. above).

3. Even if it means exposing a wrong-doer who will likely continue to exploit others? Have you ever heard of the concept of social responsibility?

4. To give this lady the impression that western society is just as tolerant of criminality as is Thailand?

Do you really believe what you are saying typing? For your sake, I hope not.

I know Thai's who flagrantly disregard their own laws when it suits them. That's fine. It's their country and be it upon their own heads.

But not in the United Kingdom. Big difference... Not same-same.

This thread has seen off a few posters who misunderstood the regard in which most British people hold the depth, quality and fairness of their laws.

You are invited to join them...

All out of likes...so I will say you are absolutely correct. The poster you mention should read the entire thread before commenting.

My comment above should be enough for anyone else supporting that viewpoint.

This is a serious business and deserves informed comments only.

An oustanding post SimonD, the like I gave you was on behalf of me and Smokie.

[SimonD]

Yes, it's a bit awkward to express what I really meant to say within the confines of the posting rules here on TV.

But glad to see you chaps understood what I meant...

PS: Smokie, have a 'like' on me, I don't dish 'em out willy-nilly (can I say that?).

theblether - ta!

Reason for edit: caught in the middle of responses, computer playing up and v. slow...

Edited May 25, 2012 by SimonD

[theblether]

Yes, it's a bit awkward to express what I really meant to say within the confines of the posting rules here on TV.

But glad to see you understood what I meant...

PS: have a 'like' on me, I don't dish 'em out willy-nilly (can I say that?).

Yes, we'd noticed

[David48]

If that is what she wants, YES !

The lady went to her boss and told him she wanted paid correctly. So now she has got what she wants. Thanks for your input.

Umm ... actually no.

The lady did not go to see the Boss.

The originial poster did.

well I have been to see her boss this afternoon and <snip>

We still don't know how the lady feels about the situation, we can only guess.

Maybe the OP might like to come back and share that with us.

And before the nay-sayers want to pick a fight ... I hope that she is happy with the outcome of the events.

Want to know more about

Fish Farms or a simple Australian Visa Application ?

[chrishopkins53]

It is a dilemma but one that cost more in the long run.

Yes the restaurant is acting illegally ..

http://www.direct.go...Tax/DG_10010537

What about cash in hand?

It's illegal for your employer to pay you cash in hand without deducting tax and National Insurance contributions from your wages.

If you accept money in this way, you risk losing your employment rights and the right to some benefits, such as:

• maternity or paternity leave
  
• sick pay
  
• Jobseeker's Allowance
  

In addition you could end up having to pay the tax and National Insurance contributions yourself.

Personally I would be very careful because you guys could stand to loose more than your pittance hourly rate.

Although I disagree with your wife's exploitation, I was reading with some degree of indifference until I got to this post.

If your wife intends to stay in the UK and get UK citizenship she should always stay on the right side of the Inland Revenue. Once those buggers get onto you for any reason they will be impossible to shake off and your wife's tax avoidance could cost her the opportunity to gain British Citizenship, never mind back tax.

I was starting to feel bad and opening up pages for reporting my wife's old boss while reading this until I reached this point and was reminded why I haven't. She took the job on the pretence she was on some kind of training rate which I suspect was illegal but I ignored it ad she was happy to find work. Obviously the rate never changed and she ended up working up to 12 hours a day 6 days a week for 220 quid a week. I tried to persuade her to stop but she wanted to pay back some debt I had helped her clear so stayed until she had covered that.

The hmrc rang seemingly every day and were happy to be fobbed off with the boss not being there and no one having her mobile number. The UKBA turned up for no reason (my recognised a few off the tv) but HMRC never did anything but phone. Reading around it looks like complaining can just get you into shit with back taxes and clearly they don't go check when they have their own suspicions so the situation just continues. They gave her some bullshit pay slips and a p45 showing she worked there part time so she'll add it to the cv as work experience and move on.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Thaivisa Connect App

[samjaidee]

I have been following this post waiting for someone to point out that many English people find themselves forced to work for wages below the legal minimum.

Forced? By who?

[belg]

go to the bank, take a nice big loan, give her the management of her own thai restaurant and you all will be rich in 6 months...or maybe not, sounds to much like promises made to the masses here before election

[theblether]

If that is what she wants, YES !

The lady went to her boss and told him she wanted paid correctly. So now she has got what she wants. Thanks for your input.

Umm ... actually no.

The lady did not go to see the Boss.

The originial poster did.

well I have been to see her boss this afternoon and <snip>

We still don't know how the lady feels about the situation, we can only guess.

Maybe the OP might like to come back and share that with us.

And before the nay-sayers want to pick a fight ... I hope that she is happy with the outcome of the events.

Want to know more about

Fish Farms or a simple Australian Visa Application ?

The OP went with his wife to talk to the boss.

[farang000999]

soi41, be quiet and let the big people talk.

[Trembly]

Perhaps you've been living out of Thailand for a while. In Thailand confrontation can easily get you killed and that's one of the reasons that in Thailand grassing and annonymous actions are relatively common.

Why do farangs always make up these outrageous comments aboutThailand and Thai people? Why are you so scared of the locals? Just because one ex-hooker's boyfriend and brother club a farng to death, you think we are all so violent.

I have seen more fights in UK in 3 years than I saw in Thailand in my whole life!

You've got to admit, grassing and anonymous actions are pretty dam_n common in Thailand. Office politics in Thailand is like UK Premier League football and office politics in the UK is like Thai Premier League football in comparison. You and I are both Thai and we both know it. If you don't then you probably haven't lived in Thailand for long enough.

[Trembly]

Let's just forget about the owner of the restaurant for a moment.

If the OP's wife is happy working like a slave then good for her. If she doesn't want to automatically be paid more and contribute to her own UK state pension then that's her prerogative. If she doesn't want her time in the UK to count towards ILR and therefore British citizeship without lying to the authorities about how she made ends meet then that's up to her. If she prefers to risk both herself and her husband being prosecuted by HMRC then that is her choice. . . but she shouldn't drag her husband into it.

As other posters have pointed it out, it's a matter of when, not if.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Let's just forget about the owner of the restaurant for a moment.

If the OP's wife is happy working like a slave then good for her. If she doesn't want to automatically be paid more and contribute to her own UK state pension then that's her prerogative. If she doesn't want her time in the UK to count towards ILR and therefore British citizeship without lying to the authorities about how she made ends meet then that's up to her. If she prefers to risk both herself and her husband being prosecuted by HMRC then that is her choice. . . but she shouldn't drag her husband into it.

As other posters have pointed it out, it's a matter of when, not if.

I agree with you in principle, however I personally find it much more productive to take charge of my Thai SOs as if I know what's good for them, benevolent dictator model. Taking local knowledge into account that would go double when taking one back home.

If your wife is an intelligent knowledgeable educated independent woman capable of managing on her own, then you have my sympathies God bless.

[brit1984]

If your wife is an intelligent knowledgeable educated independent woman capable of managing on her own, then you have my sympathies God bless.

If your partner is stupid unknowledgeable uneducated and reliant on you for survival, then you have my sympathies.

[smokie36]

If your wife is an intelligent knowledgeable educated independent woman capable of managing on her own, then you have my sympathies God bless.

If I heard someone say this in the pub I would drain my beer and find somewhere else to imbibe.

[StreetCowboy]

If your wife is an intelligent knowledgeable educated independent woman capable of managing on her own, then you have my sympathies God bless.

If your partner is stupid unknowledgeable uneducated and reliant on you for survival, then you have my sympathies.

Yez are all very sympathetic today.

Normally people would be launching into sarcastic attacks on one another once they started discussing each others' wives.

Maybe we should have a "readers' wives" section on TV, particularly for MPB

Maybe some of our farang-married readers could post someone to Aurellian's tastes - he prefers white birds; seagulls, probably

SC

SC

[smokie36]

If your wife is an intelligent knowledgeable educated independent woman capable of managing on her own, then you have my sympathies God bless.

If your partner is stupid unknowledgeable uneducated and reliant on you for survival, then you have my sympathies.

I think your sympathy should be directed towards her...were this true of course.

Edited May 30, 2012 by smokie36

[transam]

My pals EX wife is under paid in the UK too cos she works cash in hand and claims unemployment benefit.

[edwinclapham]

My pals EX wife is under paid in the UK too cos she works cash in hand and claims unemployment benefit.

oh goodie!, well lets hope there isnt a nurse or a doctor to revive her should she experience a CVA due to lack of funds!

[Ulic]

Keep track of all days and hours worked in a daily work diary. Report the situation to the authorities.

It is unfare to everyone including other restaurants who have to compete.