Backpackers

[SDH]

.

So, upon your return to whatever country you backpacked from. You arrive home. What have you learned about life from all that traipsing, bargaining, living in smelly conditions, being ignorant to real advice, worshipping the Lonely Planet, saying "Oh my god" a thousand times and reading? Well I'd say nothing whatsoever. I think it's more along the lines of: "What a waste of f**king time that holiday was" Because nearly all my friends who 'backpacked' Thailand said they didn't really like it but upon returning for a regular holiday in Thailand (real hotel, soft bed, getting pissed, using a taxi, wiping your arse etc) they enjoyed it!

Finally!! I thought I was alone on this one.......The arrogance and Lonely Planet know it all attitude oh yes that's the one that really pisses me off. Go home and take your instant noodles with you!!

[ThaiPauly]

Okies... what is the definition of a backpacker these days? If you carry a pack on your back you are a backpacker? You may be on a short 2 week break to a prolonged 2-3 year journey around the world. Some professional people with credit cards and/ or rich parents may even travel with a pack leaving a nice packet of dollars in their wake.Whatever... who cares? The lower economo-social scales benefit and that is what counts!

Backpackers happen to be the pioneers of the travel industry. Where backpackers go, travel agents and -to many degrees- realty agents- soon follow. Complain all you want, but it was backpackers that forged many of the fortunes of someThai Visa members who now complain about the smelly, mindless presence of the "unwashed" in this country.

Get a life and stop complaining! If it's not backpackers it's Scampy.... or some other non- "socially acceptable" victims.

I'd rather be a backpacker than a snot anyday. I've been backpacking since the 80's and I always will travel in this manner. It's a much more enlightening way to to see the world than your average 5-star lifestyle.

If you need to have a whinge, don't blame the young kids with packs on their backs .... blame Lonely Planet for Planet Earth Inc!!!!

Have to agree with you. Pat is always moaning about something or other. Last time it was the security Guards at his Condo. I mean how many of us trouble with security guards?

I beleive that one of the reasons that they stick to the "Lonely Planet" guide is or Security reasons. When my Son came here backpacking I wanted to read about what he was doing, where he was going etc because I was WORRIED about him ,like any parent would be about their 20 year old kid going off alone to the other side of the world.! As it happened my Boy never made it out of Thailand and has now been here 5 years. As a result I am now here too.

I really don't see the problem, B/P's don't bother me and without them where do you think the tourist trade would be?

We have all heard the stories about tight fisted Backpackers, but they are few and far between when you consider the numbers that come here.

and I take the point about the lager louts as well. Rather they were not here than backpackers

Get a LIFE Pat.... find something positive to post about if you can instead of always MOANING

Happy New Year

[stumonster]

I was under the impression the english had more of a reputation as being unwashed than backpackers .....

[markuk]

Everyone with a few quid has done the "backpacker thing"...

eH??? i have never been a backpacker - oh maybe thats why i am always broke!

[ThaiPauly]

I was under the impression the english had more of a reputation as being unwashed than backpackers .....

I really don't understand why everyone keeps banging on that us Brits are Soapdodgers

It's not US it's the FRENCH

You ever been to Greece? the waiters smell worse than the food

[JSixpack]

'DJ Pat' writes

backpackers could easily all have been hatched from the same egg or come from the same island so to speak.

Most of them are young people, aren’t they?

Absolutely no deviation from the rules set out in Lonely Planet whatsoever.

Oh, you don’t really know this. But they’re only here for a short while and LP is probably as good a guide as any to the major sights.

When you have a conversation with a "Lonely Planet" backpacker they have all visited the same tourist attractions (Floating market, Wat Pra kaew, Chatuchak market)

You mean, Fodor’s doesn't mention these? Most first-time tourists, backpackers or not, do go to the same tourist sights. Anyway, talk to the average fat old male tourist fart waddling down Sukhumvit and you’ll find he’s visited Nana Plaza, Patpong, etc. So? What’s it to you?

then had a massage, made two beers last all night, had the underlying whiff of body odour, (yes even the females)

As opposed to . . . perfuming up and watching footie at the local sports pub, careful to wear the right shirt and to display the strategic tatoo, whilst knocking back a couple of lagers? And THEN having a massage . . . .

and are reading a dog eared Harry Potter (boys) or a Zadie Smith novel (girls) whilst avoiding the passing scenery on the bus / train.

Yep, Thai scenery as seen from train/bus windows is usually quite boring. It’s not as if you’re in the Alps or the Copper Canyon, is it? Reading at least does use a bit of brainpower. Sleeping is recommended as well.

Also you may get a few upper class backpackers who declare to an expat (me) that the nightlife scene in Thailand is for 'dirty old men' and perverts, and that any Thai girl they see with a man more than fifteen years their elder has to be a you-know-what.

But that's very often the case, so why stick your head in the sand? I’m sure your upper class backpacker—presumably the only sort with whom you’d condescend to speak—would be interested to hear of the happy and numerous exceptions. KSR is a sort of nightlife scene in itself. And what percentage of expats do you find in the purely Thai nightlife scene? Karaoke--yuk.

<cheap shots snipped>

I once actually saw a backpacker conversing with a native Thai person

What percentage of any sort of tourist—or, for that matter, expat--group actually “converse” with a Thai person? “Converse” about what meaningful topic you might both know something about and have the language skills to do so? In fact, even many long-term expats with Thai language skills have long given up trying to hold meaningful conversations with the sort of Thais they normally meet. And there are reasons for that.

Now to the backpacks themselves. I personally am ok with a regular sized sports bag or

It doesn’t matter in the slightest what you personally are ok with. Get over it, will you?

It's books, tonnes of them, travel giudes, Harry Potter, Harry Potter, Harry Potter and Harry Potter books. What happened to looking out of the window on the train? Or bus?

And so? See above for the answer to that highly important question you’ve repeated.

Why bury your head in a book at the beach? Beaches are beautiful in Thailand right?

You got something against reading? Would a tellie do, if footie was on? Obviously you can only stare at the sand and sea for so long. It’s nice to read while surrounded by beautiful scenery that you can look up and see at any time. A much more profound question for you is this: why do so many men in the go-go bars just talk and look at each other whilst they discuss footie instead of enjoying looking at the beautiful girls on the stage?

Well f**king take a look at one instead of alienating yourself deliberately from 'common' tourists.

Oh, how horrible: the common tourist. Discuss what? The old home and garden? Taxes? The kids and their grade reports? “Spicy” food and the runs? The abominable hotel laundry service? Thomas Cooke vs. Amex travelers checks? Footie? Last night’s great BBBJ? How much is the taxi fare to the Floating Market, Wat Pra Kaew, the Chatuchak market? What should one pay for a good fake Rolex? Where’s the best place to buy copied DVDs? How lovely is that painting of a Thai village, on fake black velvet . . . .

What have you learned about life

Oh, at least as much as ordinary tourists.

from all that traipsing, bargaining, living in smelly conditions, being ignorant to real advice,

And what would that “real” advice be, O Fount Of Wisdom? That they wouldn’t already know and may be choosing to ignore at present?

I think it's more along the lines of: "What a waste of f**king time that holiday was"

No, that’s merely what YOU would say.

Because nearly all my friends

A very select group, you see. Upper class, all of them, surely?

who 'backpacked' Thailand said they didn't really like it but upon returning for a regular holiday in Thailand (real hotel, soft bed, getting pissed, using a taxi, wiping your arse etc) they enjoyed it!

But they might have enjoyed staying in Blackpool just as well. And what was “learned” in such fashion by the returnees (since academia is so important to you)? I mean, that was profoundly more revealing than when they traveled backpacker style and read Harry Potter? Was it merely that they'd discovered Nana Plaza?

[Thaipwriter]

I really don't understand why everyone keeps banging on that us Brits are Soapdodgers

It's not US it's the FRENCH

The French have always claimed that the English dont wash.

The English have always claimed that the French pee in the streets and their women have hairy armpits

[LaoPo]

I really don't understand why everyone keeps banging on that us Brits are Soapdodgers

It's not US it's the FRENCH

The French have always claimed that the English dont wash.

The English have always claimed that the French pee in the streets and their women have hairy armpits

Like this girl?

[ThaiPauly]

I really don't understand why everyone keeps banging on that us Brits are Soapdodgers

It's not US it's the FRENCH

The French have always claimed that the English dont wash.

The English have always claimed that the French pee in the streets and their women have hairy armpits

No you are wrong. We never say that the French girls have hairy armpits.

Thats the Germans

[cdnvic]

Could the sadder species be the one who keeps recycling the same topic over and over again?

cv

[skylar]

I really don't understand why everyone keeps banging on that us Brits are Soapdodgers

It's not US it's the FRENCH

The French have always claimed that the English dont wash.

The English have always claimed that the French pee in the streets and their women have hairy armpits

No you are wrong. We never say that the French girls have hairy armpits.

Thats the Germans

A French teacher at my local Alliance Francaise had hairy armpits. But I maintain that it's the Germans who don't wash and compound their BO by eating weird food like bratwurst. And you can spot an English backpacker from miles away from what they are wearing, which is either a) a football t-shirt 2 or more pieces of Adidas clothing c) horrible velcro sandals d) dodgy, unfunny 'same same' t-shirt or e) all of the aforementioned. Ask a backpacker about Sukhothai. Chances are they'll never have even heard of it, much less even been there. So much for Lonely Planet's guidebook!

[Boo]

Different strokes for different folks isn't it. We still stay at KS sometimes (well, just behind) in an aircon suite with ensuite bathroom, room service (which is better quailty than the average siam square, Suk/nana guesthouse/hotel we have tried staying at ) & I have never actually stayed in a dorm or had to share a bathroom in a KS guesthouse either, so the assumption that all backbackers do is funny.

I personally don't like to stay near Nana as it holds no interest for me to be near girlie bars or gogo's & everything is too inconveinet but we find KS convenient for meeting up with friends or taking a taxi into town not to mention food, drinks, entertainment on the doorstep. Yeah, the travellers with the fisherman pants & dreadlocks are funny & some of them do stink but not staying there doesn't make you a better person or richer, just that you want a different scene.

I always wonder why others think they are so much better than the KS road & people who like to stay there that they need to make snidey, snobbish remarks but they obviously feel the need to make themselves feel better or big themselves up. Sad for them

[ben01]

I really don't understand why everyone keeps banging on that us Brits are Soapdodgers

It's not US it's the FRENCH

The French have always claimed that the English dont wash.

The English have always claimed that the French pee in the streets and their women have hairy armpits

No you are wrong. We never say that the French girls have hairy armpits.

Thats the Germans

A French teacher at my local Alliance Francaise had hairy armpits. But I maintain that it's the Germans who don't wash and compound their BO by eating weird food like bratwurst. And you can spot an English backpacker from miles away from what they are wearing, which is either a) a football t-shirt 2 or more pieces of Adidas clothing c) horrible velcro sandals d) dodgy, unfunny 'same same' t-shirt or e) all of the aforementioned. Ask a backpacker about Sukhothai. Chances are they'll never have even heard of it, much less even been there. So much for Lonely Planet's guidebook!

hey leave those same same t shirts alone.....classic

[ThaiPauly]

I really don't understand why everyone keeps banging on that us Brits are Soapdodgers

It's not US it's the FRENCH

The French have always claimed that the English dont wash.

The English have always claimed that the French pee in the streets and their women have hairy armpits

No you are wrong. We never say that the French girls have hairy armpits.

Thats the Germans

A French teacher at my local Alliance Francaise had hairy armpits. But I maintain that it's the Germans who don't wash and compound their BO by eating weird food like bratwurst. And you can spot an English backpacker from miles away from what they are wearing, which is either a) a football t-shirt 2 or more pieces of Adidas clothing c) horrible velcro sandals d) dodgy, unfunny 'same same' t-shirt or e) all of the aforementioned. Ask a backpacker about Sukhothai. Chances are they'll never have even heard of it, much less even been there. So much for Lonely Planet's guidebook!

hey leave those same same t shirts alone.....classic

But Different

[rio666uk]

I always wonder why others think they are so much better than the KS road & people who like to stay there that they need to make snidey, snobbish remarks but they obviously feel the need to make themselves feel better or big themselves up. Sad for them

Boo - I cant speak for others but I never meant that I thought I was better than the KS lot... its not the guesthouses or everyone who stays there... just my own take on ammusing observations of the metamorphosis of some average joe to phileas fogg with dreads n beads... all in one afternoon

check-in, get pad-thai, sit at side of road for hours having hair braided, then go browse the tatoo shop.... i wish em all the best - wont knock em for it - but its still ammusing to see.

i had a mate who "before" he went away travelling, "had" to get his tongue pierced and a couple of tatts done... cos - and i quote "because im off travelling and i wanna look the part"

[Boo]

Rio666, I wasn't referring to any of your posts but more the kind that derides the KS for being cheap. The sterotypes are funny though & a lot of them true. The roaming gangs of israeli kids, fresh out of the army & in possesion of sophisticated bartering techniques, we have a chuckle when we see the your euro or american teens eating there "american fried rice" with chopsticks or anyone reading "the beach" always raising a smile And as for the tattooo thing, we used to have a small tattooist shop in samui & the amount of people I turned away as they hadn't thought out their choice of celtic symbol/band was amazing, was like some sort of right of passage but one without any thought to how they would explain a 10 inch tattoo of a gecko on their foot to future employers in the banking industy , or why a tribal band may seem like a good idea now, but come back when you aren't off your face on diet pills & have thought it through a bit

[Doza]

The worst people you meet in Thailand are the:

'ex-pats' who think backpackers are losers

'tourists' who think they are better than backpackers

'backpackers' who think they are better than tourists

'backpackers' who think all ex-pats are dodgy

Pretty much anyone who thinks they are the heat and bothers to write a post slagging off another type of foreigner in Thailand. Especially of a group they clearly know nothing about.

[Glauka]

I agree with you Doza

(however i would have not call them "the worst people")

I think for the first time....

Edited January 5, 2006 by Glauka

[somkid]

I really don't understand why everyone keeps banging on that us Brits are Soapdodgers

It's not US it's the FRENCH

The French have always claimed that the English dont wash.

The English have always claimed that the French pee in the streets and their women have hairy armpits

Like this girl?

Hey! very un-pc towards albinos!!!!

besides, i think he/she (?) was spanish, at least living there....

RIP

[Gazza]

I've said this before on another of DJ's BP threads.....give the guys a bit of credit. They're at least getting out and seeing the world. It's the pitiful sods back in England that gets to me. Sods whose world extends as far as the local pub and can be seen standing on the doorstep waiting for the pub doors to open. Or whose highlight of the week is getting spruced up for a Saturday night at the social club.

Who gives a doodly if BPers carry around an LP guide? It's only just that...a guide.

When someone on this forum asks for info on Hotel accomodation in Nakhon Nowhere is he told to 'fukcing get out there and find out for yourself'? No. So why are BPers expected not to use any assistance in book form to get around Thailand? What is so wrong with a guide book? Should they instead carry around reams of paper containing hand written notes gleaned from the internet?

How many of these BPers are seeing more of Thailand in a few weeks or a month than a long term expat staying in his Sukhumvit farang enclave has gotten to see in their many years here? How many expats have even been to places other than Pattaya, Phuket or their wife's/GF's home province? How many of them can say they've heard of Ammnat Charoen or been there for that matter? How many expats still don't know the difference between Udon and Ubon or Nakhon Pathom and Nakhon Phanom, let alone been there?

As much as I don't like the looks or the behaviour of some of them, I'm actually a bit envious of these Bpers. Sigh...If only I was young and care free again and discovered Thailand 25 years ago.

[steveromagnino]

Mostly I find the original poster's comments to be perhaps not that exciting, but it is fascinating to me how similar so many backpackers seem to be, so I think the post is actually pretty decent.

And in response to that, how similar the locations they stay at around the world seem to be; for instance in New Zealand the backpacker area is perhaps not so different to Thailand; cheap booze; second hand books; chance to sit around watch movies with mates, etc.

So at first glance these seem to be a bunch of boring people, they just go and do the same things in a lot of countries nes pa?

But dig a bit deeper, and a fair few of them are actually doing some pretty interesting things; most of the backpackers in NZ for instance (Japanese, Swedish, English, German) have seen far more of the country than I have in 20+ years. So if they need to kick back in the backpacker slums after their sightseeing, well that doesn't mean they havent spent some time going local.

But for Thailand, I cannot help but feel the 'tour' that these guys are doing (KSR, Samui, Floating market, full moon party) is not really a very good taste of the country. However, I will comment that I find for the most part these people to be very nice, but also some are quite lacking in hygiene (unless Japanese who still somehow have figured out how to use a shower or something). BUt then again, that applies to many westerners from cold climates who don't shower daily or are not used to heat. So not running into these people in every part of Thailand is, at least to me, not necessarily a bad thing. The BTS can be lethal now that some of these groups have discovered the tourist pass.

I do find that many are especailly cautious coming here, for which I cannot fault them, but given the ones I know (or am supposed to look after as they are friends of friends) you would think I could organise a bus for them to somewhere VIP... but no, they always need to travel in groups of other backpackers. What's that about?!

I agree, that most backpackers do have a distain for regular tourists, 'oh that place sucks it is full of package tourists' which I never understood. Neither group has a greater 'right' to any place, you are both tourists, so WTHITA?! I never really did the backpacker thing; snowboarded and hitchhiked for 3 years in uni eating instant noodles; my idea of making money is so I would never have to live in slums again... but for students on a budget, they can't even afford a 2 star hotel, so more power to them if they can handle those conditions.

I have max respect for some backpackers; how they manage not to starve eating their dodgy street side food in terror from diseases, and having to squander bottled water to rinse off their toothbrush because BKK tap water cannot be trusted I will never know. They can do it; I know I might have been able to when I was 16 but I sure can't now!

KSR is pretty sad though. I know most of my Thai friends going there enjoy it at least in part for the trainwreck value of the whole thing; but at least a small part of them I suspect wishes they could give up their cellphones, nice car, nice clothes and so on, then slum it for a bit.

Only thing is.... going on my gambling trips to Poipet I ALWAYS get yelled at about how I am somehow making Cambodia poorer whenever I am waiting in the queue and there are backpackers around?! What's wrong with a holiday in Cambodia I say, where you can dress in black?

[ben01]

The worst people you meet in Thailand are the:

'ex-pats' who think backpackers are losers

'tourists' who think they are better than backpackers

'backpackers' who think they are better than tourists

'backpackers' who think all ex-pats are dodgy

Pretty much anyone who thinks they are the heat and bothers to write a post slagging off another type of foreigner in Thailand. Especially of a group they clearly know nothing about.

" when in vietnam I overheard one bp asking a middle aged ginger haired ozzie talking man where he was from.....when the over weight ginger haired one snapped back...( in a broad ozzie accent ).....vietnam!!!"

basically some expats think they really are a cut above rest..back to same ol' ozzies tho' i spose

[DJ Pat]

The worst people you meet in Thailand are the:

'ex-pats' who think backpackers are losers

'tourists' who think they are better than backpackers

'backpackers' who think they are better than tourists

'backpackers' who think all ex-pats are dodgy

Pretty much anyone who thinks they are the heat and bothers to write a post slagging off another type of foreigner in Thailand. Especially of a group they clearly know nothing about.

I suppose it's a never ending war.

What about ex-pats who think tourists are a pain in the arse?

[Jersey_UK]

without any thought to how they would explain a 10 inch tattoo of a gecko on their foot to future employers in the banking industy

I can't say I have ever had to show my foot at a job interview, must be contracting at the wrong banks! - but fair go to you for making folk think at least twice about Tats.

I am glad someone mentioned NZ. overall the best country I have ever been to, but I can't explain why I never went back - apart from Thaland is enroute! Fortunately I had a good mate living down in NZ and although we did use the well developed Backpacker circuit, we were not married to it. Plenty of stuff to do off the LP agenda, but plenty of worthwhile stuff to do in the LP also. And some Great wine! And being able to talk to locals in the same language even just for 2 minutes just makes life so much easier.

As far as I am concerned it is the PEOPLE that make a place - and if can't communicate to some degree at least, then you DO lose a lot. One of teh big eyeopeners in Thailand for me over the years has been meeting nice Germans! I had never met any in europe before - because I had never met any! And had basically grown up on a diet of old B/W WWII movies - so to say my view of the Jerries was one dimensional would be an understatement.

I was at around 28/29 a bit older than the average backpacker, so was well used to travelling and not feeling like I "had" to do it in a crowd - I still remember down in Oz, where a group of guys and gals in a Hostel were all excited about a trip they had purchased for 100 bucks each and invited me along. The idea was that they got provided with a jeep and a tent and were "allowed" to camp on a beach for the night and could have a party. I tried to explain that I had in my life already been to Beach parties, already driven on Beaches and had already been camping - so the idea of PAYING someone to do all this in addition to Beer Money was quite a strange a concept - but I guess at 20/21 ish and you come from somewhere where their are no beaches then I can see the attraction, but still someone was making very good money from this!

But then again I was the only "Backpacker" I saw who bought their cheese pre grated when possible and their wine by the bottle (and the good stuff) rather than by the box (with the requirement being how much per litre) - so who am I to quibble about spending money

My take on BP's vs Expats vs Tourists is that in the great scheme of things it doesn't actually matter - the main point being to get out of Croydon (or wherever!) HOWEVER you can.

[rio666uk]

without any thought to how they would explain a 10 inch tattoo of a gecko on their foot to future employers in the banking industy

I can't say I have ever had to show my foot at a job interview, must be contracting at the wrong banks! - but fair go to you for making folk think at least twice about Tats.

I am glad someone mentioned NZ. overall the best country I have ever been to, but I can't explain why I never went back - apart from Thaland is enroute! Fortunately I had a good mate living down in NZ and although we did use the well developed Backpacker circuit, we were not married to it. Plenty of stuff to do off the LP agenda, but plenty of worthwhile stuff to do in the LP also. And some Great wine! And being able to talk to locals in the same language even just for 2 minutes just makes life so much easier.

As far as I am concerned it is the PEOPLE that make a place - and if can't communicate to some degree at least, then you DO lose a lot. One of teh big eyeopeners in Thailand for me over the years has been meeting nice Germans! I had never met any in europe before - because I had never met any! And had basically grown up on a diet of old B/W WWII movies - so to say my view of the Jerries was one dimensional would be an understatement.

I was at around 28/29 a bit older than the average backpacker, so was well used to travelling and not feeling like I "had" to do it in a crowd - I still remember down in Oz, where a group of guys and gals in a Hostel were all excited about a trip they had purchased for 100 bucks each and invited me along. The idea was that they got provided with a jeep and a tent and were "allowed" to camp on a beach for the night and could have a party. I tried to explain that I had in my life already been to Beach parties, already driven on Beaches and had already been camping - so the idea of PAYING someone to do all this in addition to Beer Money was quite a strange a concept - but I guess at 20/21 ish and you come from somewhere where their are no beaches then I can see the attraction, but still someone was making very good money from this!

But then again I was the only "Backpacker" I saw who bought their cheese pre grated when possible and their wine by the bottle (and the good stuff) rather than by the box (with the requirement being how much per litre) - so who am I to quibble about spending money

My take on BP's vs Expats vs Tourists is that in the great scheme of things it doesn't actually matter - the main point being to get out of Croydon (or wherever!) HOWEVER you can.

Amen

[DJ Pat]

BP's vs Expats vs Tourists

Correct there's no conflict between those groups really is there? I mean imagine if there were riots between expats and backpackers and armies of backpackers arrived tooled up in Thong Lor or G*d forbid, Suan Plu!

[Boo]

I can't say I have ever had to show my foot at a job interview, must be contracting at the wrong banks! - but fair go to you for making folk think at least twice about Tats.

Sorry was speaking as a women & one who works for a bank Is really hard to cover up a tat on the leg, foot or arm for a girl when in corporate gear (skirt suit) or summer sandals, one girl in my office has a huge tat on the top of her arm & in the summer can't wear short sleeve shirts (well, she tried but was told to cover the tat!)

[ThaiPauly]

I've said this before on another of DJ's BP threads.....give the guys a bit of credit. They're at least getting out and seeing the world. It's the pitiful sods back in England that gets to me. Sods whose world extends as far as the local pub and can be seen standing on the doorstep waiting for the pub doors to open. Or whose highlight of the week is getting spruced up for a Saturday night at the social club.

Who gives a doodly if BPers carry around an LP guide? It's only just that...a guide.

When someone on this forum asks for info on Hotel accomodation in Nakhon Nowhere is he told to 'fukcing get out there and find out for yourself'? No. So why are BPers expected not to use any assistance in book form to get around Thailand? What is so wrong with a guide book? Should they instead carry around reams of paper containing hand written notes gleaned from the internet?

How many of these BPers are seeing more of Thailand in a few weeks or a month than a long term expat staying in his Sukhumvit farang enclave has gotten to see in their many years here? How many expats have even been to places other than Pattaya, Phuket or their wife's/GF's home province? How many of them can say they've heard of Ammnat Charoen or been there for that matter? How many expats still don't know the difference between Udon and Ubon or Nakhon Pathom and Nakhon Phanom, let alone been there?

As much as I don't like the looks or the behaviour of some of them, I'm actually a bit envious of these Bpers. Sigh...If only I was young and care free again and discovered Thailand 25 years ago.

Mee too!!!

[Jersey_UK]

Sorry was speaking as a women & one who works for a bank Is really hard to cover up a tat on the leg, foot or arm for a girl when in corporate gear (skirt suit) or summer sandals, one girl in my office has a huge tat on the top of her arm & in the summer can't wear short sleeve shirts (well, she tried but was told to cover the tat!)

I saw your Avatar - and just assumed you were a bloke!

Appreciate your point - gals have to think a bit more about where the Tat goes than blokes, to at least have the option of covering them up.

Down here though as long as the gals are not client facing, then most places seem pretty relaxed nowadays -including belly Tats and belly button piercings on show (a bit too much even for me sometimes - I must be getting old!).

Never really seen the point of Tats myself and of course most of the women who get tats at 21 have not actually seen what even a "delicate" tattoo of a Flower of bird looks like on a woman after 25 years!, let alone what an "artistic design" around a belly button is going to look like even if they do not have children.........

[redrus]

I'm sat aroud in North Yorkshire at the mo, and as said in my prev post I discovered LOS almost 10 years ago.

I come back quite regularly but, I really would love to have that freedom again. The freedom that usually caused your parents heart attacks daily cos you didn't phone for 3 months

While sat writing these words, Jack Frost nipping at my windows. Give me fisherman pants and Chang with the sun beating down on my face anyday. I could not care less if Farquar and Tarquin were bangin on over the breeze about they're next route to Patters, Bangers, Indo, NZ, SA or Oz. As long as I were there. (March)

As also said prev, Live and let live.

Or move on....

redrus